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wlkjr
07-14-2012, 12:13 PM
I just got Floyd's DC insert installed and need to know the proper grounding procedure. I'm going to use a stiff aluminum flex duct connecting to an automatic blast gate that goes to the 2hp dust collector.

ladjr
07-14-2012, 12:18 PM
I just got Floyd's DC insert installed and need to know the proper grounding procedure. I'm going to use a stiff aluminum flex duct connecting to an automatic blast gate that goes to the 2hp dust collector.

Floyd's DC will greatly improve your machines performance. I forgot how it was before until last night when my DC bag came off in the moddle of a carve. Unfortunitly I wasn't there when it happened. I have a shop to clean today.

I'm not sure that your using the DC to ground will work. Is it all metal or is your blast gate plastic like mine. Good luck.

Digitalwoodshop
07-14-2012, 12:28 PM
I use a flexible green rubber coated wire with 3 Gator Clips on each end. I hook one end to 3 places of my Dust Collector since the metal is grounded through the Outlet. The Other End I clip to my Metal Ringneck Hood, Machine In Feed Tray and in my case since I have a roll around metal cart, to it....

If you read places like Wood Web on Dust collection and Grounding they recommend grounding through your grounded dust collector. Some ground through a convenient water pipe or drive into the ground a new Ground Rod. Both are really a Bad Idea as it can create a condition called "Ground Loop" where the different Earth Grounds can cause one ground to be at a different voltage level... or Ground Loop.... If this is done you may never see a problem but the Electrical guys know it is the rule in the Electrical code. Same with the Ground Bonding Screw in a Secondary Power Panel or a second Fuse Box in your Garage... The second box would not have the Ground Bonding Screw inserted bonding the White Wire and the Ground Wire together inside the 2nd box. They must remain separate until bonded at the first power panel or fuse box after the Power Meter.

I have 3 Sub Panels off my Main 200 AMP Service... All passed Inspection. I have learned in 1975 to do Wiring. The Inspector of my Shop Wiring from Power Meter to Outlets was the Son of the guy who taught me.

Hope this helps.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_loop_(electricity)

AL

wlkjr
07-14-2012, 12:42 PM
My gate is plastic and connects to the common 4" plastic coiled hose that in turn connects to PVC going to my drum.

ladjr
07-14-2012, 12:54 PM
My gate is plastic and connects to the common 4" plastic coiled hose that in turn connects to PVC going to my drum.

Sorry I thought you were saying you were ground through the DC pipe, not asking how to. Sorry again

Digitalwoodshop
07-14-2012, 01:10 PM
I would run a Copper Wire along the Pipe from the Dust Collector to the Hood and Machine and BOND or Attach THAT Ground Wire to EACH Metal Part.... A few years ago I go into the shop at night while it is doing a Cut Path and I hear Snap.... Snap......Snap..... I look into the machine and I see what looks like a Arc between the Copper Circuit board collector I made in 2007 and the 1/8 inch Cutting Bit. I turn off the Shop Lights and look.... A 1 inch ARC like a Spark Plug between the Metal collector that was painted black and the Cutting Bit as the sawdust was flowing down the dust collector pipe. I look with the lights on and the Ground Gator Clip had fallen off my copper collector and even though it sat on the metal frame of the machine that was gounded.... The Paint must have acted like an Insulator... I hooked the Ground Gator back up and NO MORE Snap....


That is WHY I am so much of a Supporter of the Ringneck Blues METAL Collector hood. I have nothing against the Guy who is marketing the Plastic Collector Hood but I don't think it is the Best Choice for a Collector Hood on a Fully Electronic Computer Controlled Carving Machine.... IF a Plastic Hood on a Wood Planer or Thickness Sander let High Voltage Static Build Up, it may not be a problem since most Thickness Planers don't have a computer. I Don't have any documentation of how Static Electricity can build up on a plastic Collector then Arc to the Machine and Zap the Electronics. Time will tell with both in use.... A while back a guy here posted pictures of a Collector made from Clear Plexiglass. He also posted pictures of his outside workshop / shed after a Shop Fire. He was doing a UN ATTENDED Carving and the Dust Collector appeared to be the source of the FIRE.... I know from working with Clear Plexiglass that a Static Charge CAN build up on the surface. Even removing the clear plastic protection quickly can give you a shock.....

I was blasted in a post a while back that I was Quick to say Bad things about other's Products for sale.... I believe it was the Clear Plexiglas and Plastic Collectors that was the item in question. I posted here that my High Recommendation of the All Metal Collector is routed in EXPERIENCE and FACTS.... I just don't trust plastic collectors and Computer Electronics. Time has not proven YET that they won't cause a problem.. It took a while in 2007 to put together the FACTS that guys would post... "I stopped my Machine in the middle of a Carving to VACUUM OUT the Wood Chips as I don't have a Dust Collection System and used my SHOP VAC... NOW my LCD and COMPUTER IS DEAD".... The wood ships flowing through the Plastic Hose created High Voltage Static and it Arced to the Computer... It Smoked the Computer, Power Supply and sometimes some Sensors..... $600.00 dollars later what did we learn.... Plastic not good for Dust Collection..... I have been in Electronics since 1974.... I understand stuff like this....


So you have the BEST... A Metal Ringneck Collector and Just Ground all the metal Pipes to the Dust Collector and you will be GOOD....


I am GLAD you asked....


I have retired my Copper Collector in Favor of the Ringneck Blues collector as my Slot Cut in the bottom to hang over the Machine, even when sealed with weather strip foam leaked... The Ringneck Blues collector has more SUCTION....


Happy Carving...


AL

fwharris
07-14-2012, 01:27 PM
I just got Floyd's DC insert installed and need to know the proper grounding procedure. I'm going to use a stiff aluminum flex duct connecting to an automatic blast gate that goes to the 2hp dust collector.

Follow Al's advice! :D That is how I have mine set up. Thanks for the purchase and happy dust less carving!

wlkjr
07-14-2012, 01:36 PM
I know there is a great amount of static electricity flowing from my drum sander through the shop vac hose but no electronics to fry. Never had a problem between the DC and table saw, jointer, or planer. Larger chips don't seem to cause the same static as fine dust. Although I did catch a metal shop vac on fire with some chips coming from a router.

mcQ
07-15-2012, 06:28 PM
First I want to point out that my ERWIN PRODUCTS DUST DEVIL does address the static problem, every unit sold has a foil grounding tape installed which is continuous from the hose connection to where the unit mounts to a metal portion of the machine. Second I do not believe the forum is an appropriate place to blast another product.

Erwin



I would run a Copper Wire along the Pipe from the Dust Collector to the Hood and Machine and BOND or Attach THAT Ground Wire to EACH Metal Part.... A few years ago I go into the shop at night while it is doing a Cut Path and I hear Snap.... Snap......Snap..... I look into the machine and I see what looks like a Arc between the Copper Circuit board collector I made in 2007 and the 1/8 inch Cutting Bit. I turn off the Shop Lights and look.... A 1 inch ARC like a Spark Plug between the Metal collector that was painted black and the Cutting Bit as the sawdust was flowing down the dust collector pipe. I look with the lights on and the Ground Gator Clip had fallen off my copper collector and even though it sat on the metal frame of the machine that was gounded.... The Paint must have acted like an Insulator... I hooked the Ground Gator back up and NO MORE Snap....


That is WHY I am so much of a Supporter of the Ringneck Blues METAL Collector hood. I have nothing against the Guy who is marketing the Plastic Collector Hood but I don't think it is the Best Choice for a Collector Hood on a Fully Electronic Computer Controlled Carving Machine.... IF a Plastic Hood on a Wood Planer or Thickness Sander let High Voltage Static Build Up, it may not be a problem since most Thickness Planers don't have a computer. I Don't have any documentation of how Static Electricity can build up on a plastic Collector then Arc to the Machine and Zap the Electronics. Time will tell with both in use.... A while back a guy here posted pictures of a Collector made from Clear Plexiglass. He also posted pictures of his outside workshop / shed after a Shop Fire. He was doing a UN ATTENDED Carving and the Dust Collector appeared to be the source of the FIRE.... I know from working with Clear Plexiglass that a Static Charge CAN build up on the surface. Even removing the clear plastic protection quickly can give you a shock.....

I was blasted in a post a while back that I was Quick to say Bad things about other's Products for sale.... I believe it was the Clear Plexiglas and Plastic Collectors that was the item in question. I posted here that my High Recommendation of the All Metal Collector is routed in EXPERIENCE and FACTS.... I just don't trust plastic collectors and Computer Electronics. Time has not proven YET that they won't cause a problem.. It took a while in 2007 to put together the FACTS that guys would post... "I stopped my Machine in the middle of a Carving to VACUUM OUT the Wood Chips as I don't have a Dust Collection System and used my SHOP VAC... NOW my LCD and COMPUTER IS DEAD".... The wood ships flowing through the Plastic Hose created High Voltage Static and it Arced to the Computer... It Smoked the Computer, Power Supply and sometimes some Sensors..... $600.00 dollars later what did we learn.... Plastic not good for Dust Collection..... I have been in Electronics since 1974.... I understand stuff like this....


So you have the BEST... A Metal Ringneck Collector and Just Ground all the metal Pipes to the Dust Collector and you will be GOOD....


I am GLAD you asked....


I have retired my Copper Collector in Favor of the Ringneck Blues collector as my Slot Cut in the bottom to hang over the Machine, even when sealed with weather strip foam leaked... The Ringneck Blues collector has more SUCTION....


Happy Carving...


AL

Digitalwoodshop
07-15-2012, 07:29 PM
"First I want to point out that my ERWIN PRODUCTS DUST DEVIL does address the static problem, every unit sold has a foil grounding tape installed which is continuous from the hose connection to where the unit mounts to a metal portion of the machine. Second I do not believe the forum is an appropriate place to blast another product.

Erwin"

It is a GREAT place to sell your product, making 12 posts about your product since 2008 and getting a table at the Show. That is Great.

Question? How did you find the Static Problem that the Foil Fixes?

Good Luck !!!

AL


There is a story on Wood Web a few years ago where a Guy posted about his PVC Pipe Shop Collection System. He used 6 inch Sch80 pipe and ran a copper wire inside and spiraled around the outside. He had holes drilled through the pipe bonding the inside and outside plastic pipe. He said he was just finishing up a project with the Table Saw and reached for a board on a cart and next thing He knew He was waking up laying on the Shop Floor... The Static on the Pipe had built up enough to cause him to be knocked unconcious..... He put in a metal system.

And from Wood Web... Not the exact story but many who know what they say...

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/PVC_for_dust_collection.html

EDIT: We are all big boys here. I support the ROCK Chuck and the Ringneck Metal Collector as that is what I believe is a Superior Product that Works for ME. We all have choices in what we buy for our machine. I am just one person.

ALL of the Dust Hood Options are WELL Represented on this thread. So once a user does all His or Her Homework reading all the Opinions, then a Choice is made. I saw in another posting today where a User has ordered a ERWIN hood. That is GREAT... I wish you both Well.

:)

bluecobra
07-26-2012, 05:12 AM
My DC system is mostly plastic (ABS) with aluminum blast gates. Should I ground it in the same fashion as mentioned above? I live in an apartment so metal ducting isn't exactly feasible at the moment.

fwharris
07-26-2012, 10:23 AM
My DC system is mostly plastic (ABS) with aluminum blast gates. Should I ground it in the same fashion as mentioned above? I live in an apartment so metal ducting isn't exactly feasible at the moment.

Mark,
Is your question in reference to Al's post about the PVC system?

What kind of grounding do you have in place now??

Jeff_Birt
07-26-2012, 11:26 AM
For plastic ducting you can use a screw about every 3' through the duct. You want a screw that just reaches though the duct with a grounding wire attached. basically you will have a bare copper wire fastened to the plastic duct every three feet with a metal screw. Since the screw penetrates the wall of the duct it keeps both the inside and outside at the same electrical potential.

bluecobra
07-26-2012, 11:27 AM
Mark,
Is your question in reference to Al's post about the PVC system?

What kind of grounding do you have in place now??

Yes, the question is.
My DC system is still unassembled at the moment. I'm modding a tupperware brute 32gal can as a pre-collector to be used with a 1Hp 660CFM DC. My CompuCarve is due to be delivered tomorrow. I have a grounding kit with 50' of wire. I'm wondering, do I run the wire inside the plastic hoses & connections and over the outside of the metal blast gates? Where do I have ground points? Only on metal surfaces?

Digitalwoodshop
07-26-2012, 11:46 AM
I have seen the grounding kits and they are talked about on the Sawmill Creek and Wood Web Wood Working Forums. Some have had good luck with the kits with wire inside and outside bonded along the way. I would read what the others have found when working with PVC.

Good Luck and WELCOME !!!

AL

fwharris
07-26-2012, 11:48 AM
Yes, the question is.
My DC system is still unassembled at the moment. I'm modding a tupperware brute 32gal can as a pre-collector to be used with a 1Hp 660CFM DC. My CompuCarve is due to be delivered tomorrow. I have a grounding kit with 50' of wire. I'm wondering, do I run the wire inside the plastic hoses & connections and over the outside of the metal blast gates? Where do I have ground points? Only on metal surfaces?

Mark,

It looks like Jeff posted a very good design for how to do for the pipe. I would attach one end to the motor case on the DC. For the CW I followed Al's idea with using alligator clips on pig tails so you can attach one to each of the out feed tables and another to the hose clamp on the insert.

HOWDY Jeff! Good to see you again!

bluecobra
07-26-2012, 12:31 PM
Thank you all for your input.
As you can see, Jeff posted his reply while I was still composing mine earlier.

I still have one more question. The hoses I'm using are the collapsible kind w/o the integrated spiral wound wire, should I just wrap the wire around it, like one revolution per foot or so?

Actually, now that I think about it, makes more sense to run it inside the hose. I'd guess to leave enough slack for normal use for the length of that particular hose.

fwharris
07-26-2012, 01:15 PM
Mark,

Either way will work.

Mikewiz
11-22-2013, 06:03 AM
Hey,
I just built a dust collection hood for my CW, it is made of metal. My hose that connects to the collector and my dc unit is flexable plastic or rubber. My question is when IT ground it does the wire stay on the outside or go inside the hood and hose. Thanks Mike.

fwharris
11-22-2013, 09:10 AM
Mike,

You can do it either way..

Bigtyme
11-22-2013, 02:10 PM
+1 to Floyd's answer. I have an extensive dust collection system in my shop all using pvc and I have both wires inside and outside in some instances and have never had a problem in the 15 or so year since I put it together....

NLAlston
11-24-2013, 11:35 PM
First I want to point out that my ERWIN PRODUCTS DUST DEVIL does address the static problem, every unit sold has a foil grounding tape installed which is continuous from the hose connection to where the unit mounts to a metal portion of the machine.

Erwin

Erwin, my CW isn't here yet, but one of your hoods is already here, awaiting it. Just for the sake of clarity, is the above portion of your quote to say that I would need to give no further attention to - or have concerns on static electricity issues? Can I forego the involvement of having to run any wires? Or would I still need to. Forgive my naivety, but what I know about electricity could be placed on the tip of a needle.

fwharris
11-24-2013, 11:41 PM
Erwin, my CW isn't here yet, but one of your hoods is already here, awaiting it. Just for the sake of clarity, is the above portion of your quote to say that I would need to give no further attention to - or have concerns on static electricity issues? Can I forego the involvement of having to run any wires? Or would I still need to. Forgive my naivety, but what I know about electricity could be placed on the tip of a needle.

I am not answering for Erwin BUT, run a static ground system if you are using any type of dust collections system on your machine. The movement of saw dust will in fact generate static electricity through what ever it is flowing.

NLAlston
11-25-2013, 12:08 AM
I am not answering for Erwin BUT, run a static ground system if you are using any type of dust collections system on your machine. The movement of saw dust will in fact generate static electricity through what ever it is flowing.

Good. And thanks. But, just one question to ask: would it suffice to simply run a wire from the metallic piece on the dust hood, to the ground screw on an electrical outlet?

fwharris
11-25-2013, 12:22 AM
That should work just fine and what I suggest to others when asking about the grounding system for my dc-insert if they do not already have a static ground system in their shop. I also suggest they test the system by dropping saw dust on the hoses with the system running to see if the dust is attracted to the hose.

I also use a aluminum dryer vent hose, the more rigid type and not the loose flimsy type, attached to a gate valve off of the dust collector up the cw just for the added feeling of security of less static build up in metal versus the plastic hose.

mcQ
12-08-2013, 06:00 PM
Grounding a dust collection system is always a good idea. For Dust Devil users a metal foil tape has been run through the plastic dust hood that is bonded to the metal frame of the CarveWright machine. The other end is wrapped over the hose connection where a ground wire should contact. To be effective the ground wire should be a bare stranded copper wire which runs continuously through
the hose and duct work and bonded to the dust collector at the other end which is grounded to your shops electical system. Grounding kits are availible from a number of suppliers such as Grizzly,
and Woodcraft.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Grounding-Kit/W1053

dehrlich
12-08-2013, 07:13 PM
Here is what I have done. Not saying it's right or best, but it works. I took bare copper wire, some small braided type I found at home depot in a roll, and I wrapped it around the hose all the way down and grounded it to the dust collector. Also, since my scoop is made of wood, I ran a piece up on the top and fixed it so the plastic cover would close on it to discharge it as well. Again not saying it's the best way, but it works for me.

mcQ
12-09-2013, 08:24 AM
To be effective the ground wire must be bare and run inside the hose and duct work. Below is the instruction sheet for one of the grounding kits from Rockler.

66247