Repalcement Sandpaper Gave up the Ghost!

[keninar]

Evening, All,

This forum has been the source of many answers - so I thought I'd tempt fate and try once again.

Have a C Model, with app 150 hours cut time. Virtually no problems (machine-wise) until recently.

During a carve - one of the sandpaper belts ripped and the caring was lost. Not sure of the reason - but willing to chalk it up to operator or environmental issues.

Ordered a couple of sets of replacement sandpaper belts. Received them in good order - followed the instructions ( as best I could) and got the machine back together. In the process, noticed that the roller with the gear was loose - adjusted and secured as per directions - all seemed good.

2 days ago I ran my first test on the re-assembled machine - 2 different carves, one a one-sider and one being a two-sider. One-sider was a 30 min carve; the 2-sider a 2.5 hours carve. Neither were a heavy drain on the machine - pine and 12" boards. All came out fine - was quite pleased.

Tonight (2 days post replacement) I began to set up a carve on the face of a baptismal fount (my first grandchild is being baptized this Sunday - and I've rebuilt all the altar furniture but this) and noticed the sandpaper belt I replaced had separated. See attached pic. Looks like the joint tape failed.
54501
Any thoughts on what may have caused this? I will admit that we have been fairly hot and humid here in AR - today was 106 w/high humidity and the CW is in an exterior workshop - so was probably a tad bit warmer.

Any thoughts or guidance would be most appreciated. I am a bit reluctant to restart and put a piece of finished Bolivian Rosewood at peril - unless I need to. Hence the plea to the court.

While we're on the subject of questions regarding this activity - please allow me one additional query:

Step 1 of the Sandpaper Replacement directions direct one to "Remove the two Phillips head screws shown below and lift the sliding plate out. Be careful not to damage the good belt when lifting the sliding plate out."

OK - got the two Phillips head screws out in good shape - but there was no way to "remove the sliding plate," as it has two "wings" on the bottom that protrude under the rollers. To get the sliding plate off - I've had to remove an outfeed table and remove the belt tray bolts to allow enough slack to get the sliding plate off. Works OK and doesn't place stress on the alignment plate - just doesn't jib with the directions. What am I missing?

Thanks again for all the support provided here in the forum. Perhaps someday I'll grow up enough to be able to contribute!!

keninar

[Digitalwoodshop]

With the side off the machine, the sliding plate moves toward you and comes off at the gear box...

Is your wood Perfect? Any Tapers?

The Sliding Plate should be the thickness of a Quarter away from touching the wood. If it is touching the wood it can bind and snap a belt.

Check Head Level. With a Bit in the machine and a wide board use Options and Sensor Data and Z Data and push the bit to each side of the wood and look at the numbers for level.

Good Luck,

AL

[keninar]

Thank you, Kindly, Al!

1. With the side off the machine, the sliding plate moves toward you and comes off at the gear box... Wow! That works like a charm. Feel kinda silly I didn't figure that one out!

2. Is your wood Perfect? Any Tapers? Wood on last carves was good - dimensioned on a tablesaw then jointer - so I'm pretty confident on this one.

3. The Sliding Plate should be the thickness of a Quarter away from touching the wood. If it is touching the wood it can bind and snap a belt. Have tried to keep a bit of slack here - normally use 2 playing cards as spacers. Can see how it might bind and snap. Odd thing here is that the replaced belt worked fine for the 2 carves - and was in tact when I shut things down on Wed - Next time to approach the machine (tonight) noticed the separation. Position is that the belt did not snap during the carve.

4. Check Head Level. With a Bit in the machine and a wide board use Options and Sensor Data and Z Data and push the bit to each side of the wood and look at the numbers for level. Will check this issue tomorrow am.

Thanks for the direction. Will advise.

keninar

[AskBud]

If all your sandpaper belts are separating at the seam, there may be a bad batch. save them, as LHR may want to check them out (presuming that is where you got them).

Question to consider!
How is the moisture level where you store your machine and spare belts? What is the temperature range during the year? Quick and radical change in temperature can draw moisture as well. It could affect the machine and parts. Belts could act as a sponge and metal can rust.


When you maintain the unit with things like WD40 or other liquid based spray, it's a no-no to get the stuff on the belts. You need to protect them prior to that portion of the cleaning!
AskBud

[keninar]

Thanks, Bud. Yes - did get the belts from LHR. And to the un-aided eye - it seems like the adhesive just let go. But..............I'm not a CNC technician (nor did I spend last night at a Holiday Inn Express!).

Machine in an insulated workshop - albeit with no A/c (just fans) and a wood burning stove for the winter. Temp range here in Central AR can run from 10 - 106. Normal around 25- 95. This has been an abnormally hot last month. Do a lot of close tolerance work with hardwoods - and the temp/humidity range hasn't presented a problem to this point. Always a first time, I guess.

WD-40 is a no-no in the shop, but OK on the cycles (or to get chewing gum out of my granddaughter's hair). I've cleaned waaaay to much gunk out of my power tools to let the stuff get anywhere close.

Thanks for the input - my un-scientific call is that something caused the joint to fail. But - I may have inadvertently contributed to it along the way.

Loaded a new belt this eve - forecast is for 105 tomorrow - will keep ya'll posted.

Thanks for the interest.

ken

[AskBud]

High heat could also melt the glue! The belts are always under tension.
AskBud

[Digitalwoodshop]

Thanks, Bud. Yes - did get the belts from LHR. And to the un-aided eye - it seems like the adhesive just let go. But..............I'm not a CNC technician (nor did I spend last night at a Holiday Inn Express!).

ken

At almost 1 AM that made me Laugh... Holiday Inn Express...... Love it.... Great TV Ads... Almost as good as the Trunk Monkey....

One more thing to check as I was reading all the new posts.... Check Head Pressure too....


Good Luck,


AL

[keninar]

Humm, will check the head pressure as well. Per the directions, checked the head pressure post installation of the new belt - (but it was only 102 that day!)

For the sake of conversation, would you suspect High or Low head pressure to contribute to this malady?

Thanks again for the assistance.

Ken

[fwharris]

High head pressure could be a cause. Putting to much force on the belts and X drive. Was 102 your temp or head pressure????

[keninar]

Re-checked the head pressure - 81 avg on 8 tests. Think that falls within the envelope. But I can see how excessive head pressure would place undo strain on the belts.

The 102 was the ambient temp (as well as temp of MY head!).

Thanks again!

[mtylerfl]

I've not heard of the sandpaper separating at the seam before...my first thought is that it was a bad "weld" at the seam from the manufacturer. I suppose the seam could have been weakened from heat and stress, but using a belt sander as an example...the belt is exposed to a lot of heat and stress during use and I've never had a seam fail.

I would contact CarveWright and explain what happened (perhaps have the weblink to this thread at the ready, so they can see the photo of the failure).

[bjbethke]

Looks like a bad joint, BUY USA, maybe, I had that happen with 1 inch belts but I use then Hard at times, There should be a MFG # to track it. BJB

[keninar]

Thanks for all the responses.

"BUY USA, maybe, I had that happen with 1 inch belts but I use then Hard at times, There should be a MFG # to track it."

There may well be a Mfg # to track - but as they were bought thru LHR - I think they are the first place to start.

[keninar]

Update:
Replaced the separated belt with one from the same package (only replaced the right belt last week) and belt #2 seems to be holding up like a champ. The only change appears to be the ambient temperature - 85-95 instead of the 105+ at the time of separation.

Heat related? No empirical data, but a really strong gut feeling.

Thanks again for all your input.

[wlkjr]

Ever considered the heavy duty rubber belts?

[CNC Carver]

Rubber belts are great upgrade. One purchase I do not regret.

[keninar]

Yes, I did evaluate the heavy duty vs. sandpaper - both as a result of the recent issue as well as at the time of machine purchase.

I am a simple user - not a heavy hobbyist -and the original sandpaper belts served me well for a year and a half. I think the original belt that failed was due to operator error. Based on that, I felt a replacement sandpaper belt would fit my utilization appropriately.
Thus I was surprised in the seam separation after only 2 days of nominal use.

I won't even get into the cost differential ($140 vs $16.50) and required disassemble and recalibration required to install the rubber belts. I cannot dispute their potential benefit - just not from my rocking chair.

Thanks again for the input.

ken

[mtylerfl]

Hi Ken,

The rubber belts are a great upgrade, but, like you, the sandpaper belts work fine for me as well.

One of my machines has the sandpaper belts...the other has the rubber belts. The sandpaper belts still look new after years of use.

[keninar]

Sandpaper belt - update

Thanks again for all the input from the forum, it has been invaluable. The second replacement belt I put on 2 weeks ago was used successfully for some carves on the 8th, and then again on the 15-16th. Then, unfortunately, work got in the way and I was not able to return to the shop until today. Imagine my surprise to discover that belt #2 had separated at the seam also. As has been noted in this thread, the belts are under constant pressure from the springs in the belt tray.

Couple that pressure with the fairly high temps we have been having (last week was hovering around 105) I could see how the adhesive holding the seam together could fail.
HOWEVER - if that were the case, I would also suspect the remaining belt - one that came with the unit - should suffer the same fate. It is still going strong and straight.

So I am becoming a bit more convinced that it was a bad product run. The packaging had no identification whatsoever, and the only markings found printed on the sandpaper itself were: Sanling Brand and JA361.

At the suggestion of my esteemed colleague, Mr. Tyler, I contacted LHR via e-mail regarding this issue. I posed a courteous query: "Here is what has happened, was it caused by something I did?" I then provided an extensive description of the chronology of events. This note was sent on the 12th.

I find it quite interesting that to date, I have yet to receive any response from LHR. Most interesting.

Fortunately, when I placed my original order, I ordered 2 sets of belts, so I have 2 more belts remaining. However, should these belts suffer from the same malady as the first, I'll be behind the 8 ball again in no time.

I will be glad when the heat returns to a bit more tolerable level, but I sure would like to be able to carve in the meantime.

Thanks again for all the input. I'll keep you posted.

Ken

[mtylerfl]

Hi Ken,

I would have expected LHR to get back to you within 24 hours of your email...that would be their normal customer service. You have much more patience than I do...I would have called them if I had not heard from them by the next business day (at the latest!).

It sounds more and more like a factory defect - I used to live in Phoenix where my shop temps got into the 120's at times. Although that was long before the CarveWright, I did use a couple belt sanders...again, no failure at the seam then or ever. Of course I know this is not a direct analogy by any means, but seam failure under normal use would be extremely rare, I think.

Call CarveWright Tech Support at 1-713-473-6572 and let them know what is going on. Ask for Alex or Connie and I'm sure they'll take care of you right away!

[skeeterman]

Ken I may have a spare sandpaper belt in my shop, only a few miles from you

[andes]

Ken, I also have a sandpaper belt that I never used, brand new, it was a spare. PM me if you are interested.

[keninar]

Thank you, kindly, Skeeter! I just may need to take up up on that offer!
I opened the second package and loaded one of them on the belt tray. As you can see in this pic - the seam appears to be opening up - right out of the box (or plastic sleeve, as it were). I think I'll let it set in the shop -off the machine - and see what happens. Was blessed with the opportunity to babysit with my grandson this afternoon and tomorrow - so the carving got bumped.54887

Thanks again to all - will keep you posted.

Skeeter - You in town this week?

[skeeterman]

yes gotta leave tom. after church,

[skeeterman]

ken you got my Phone #, i have one sandpaper belt new if you need it, or are you needing both? i will pm you my Number will be going thru Morgan around 6:30 to take wife out for Birthday, if ya wanna meet out that way?
steve

[keninar]

Skeeterman was kind enough to loan a sandpaper belt until we get this thing sorted out.

Update on belt #3 (pic above) - the separation is growing, you can almost see it getting wider. That pretty much rules out a machine driven malady. There is no tension adjustment, it works in a bi-directional mode - and Skeeterman's show is within 10 miles of mine -and both have experienced the same temperature variations - so I can see the hand-writing on the wall.

Thanks again to the forum participants for their input and their offers! Greatly appreciated.

Ken

[lynnfrwd]

54887



Sorry, I didn't see this photo until now. I had it pictured in my head as being like a half to one inch gap or in pieces. This is normal. These belts have not failed and will work fine. I also passed the photo to the head engineer and owner. They all agree it is normal and should work with no problem.

[keninar]

As per my conversation a few moments ago with LHR - the above pic is belt #3 - immediately after installation on the belt assembly. The gap was apparent upon loading - and got bigger as the day went on. The folks at LHR quickly jumped on this one - but were advised the above pic was #3.

Belts # 1 and 2 separated completely at the seam - while on the machine - but not during a carve. Will post pics and forward to LHR this eve upon returning home.

Didn't think I was going to in for such an inquisition on this - but such is life. I appreciate LHR responding.

Ken

[earlyrider]

Nobody expects the Spanish inquisition!
In fact, those who do........
.............

[lynnfrwd]

Not meant to be an inquisition. Our goal is not just to replace an item (which we did offer) but to find a cause so we don't have repeat issues.

I do apologize as I didn't realize this picture was not the end result as with belts one and two.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[keninar]

I think we all have the same end goal in mind here. It is frustrating when things don't work as expected.
Together, I suspect we can figure out what is going on - Operator error or something else - and prevent lost resources for the community.
Discourse is a good thing.

Ken