How to make your machine more reliable.

[leop]

I finally broke down and drew out schematics for my machine. I am not going to share them with folks because I do not want to piss off the CarveWright people as I still need support from them, but if you need help repairing your machine I'll do my best to help you.

I'll also say that the number one reliability problem with this machine stems from the incredible high frequency vibrations that the electronics are subjected to. I have been working in electronics for 25 years and I can attest, after drawing out the schematics for this machine, that the circuit design itself is fine. The electronics are failing because they are being vibrated to death. Not too much bad I can say in this regard because one of the goals of the machine is to have one tightly integrated cost effective package, and that means the electronics go inside the machine. However if you look at other CNC machines (of any type: wood, metal, plastic) the electronics are kept as far away from the mechanical portion of the machine as possible. Would you run your router and set it on top of your lap top and then expect the lap top to survive for 250 hrs?

So do what I did. Build a stand for the machine, isolate it from the stand and then move the electronics out and away from the machine. Longer cables make this a breeze. The package will be bigger and the cables might be clumsy if your don't make them tight, but the machine will run better, longer and for a lot less money in the long run. I might build a cable kit if enough people want it. Or I'll take pictures of mine and you guys can DIY and save money, have fun and better understand your machine.

[unknowncarver]

Pictures would be a great start. Seems like a very ambitious project.

[lynnfrwd]

That's quite a first post. Welcome to the forum. You still using the old QC?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[chebytrk]

I'll believe that because you're still new here you will realize after you've been here a while that CW people don't get pissed when persons have suggestions or improvement recommendations. If they "CW" people did feel that way many members would have been booted off long ago. There have been many things done like taking out the cut motor & hanging on the wall next to the CW to keep the flex shaft straight (less noise), to the invention of the rock chuck long before the carve tight, to DC systems adapters (some small enough to fit around the spindle), & several others. No amigo, we (& if I may speak for LHR), don't get pissed. We encourage ideas, & better ways to do things with our CW. We're all here to win & those that don't win... choose that. Of course there is a way to make or present improvements without putting down what is already out there. I hope to soon see what you have in mind on improving the CW. Videos & pics would be great with specific tests that were conducted.

[brdad]

This makes sense to me. The CW's electronics, switches, and connectors are those used in typical consumer electronics, and yet they are placed in a more demanding environment. Vibration is part of it, and so is moisture as many of these machines are being used in unheated or barely heated garages, sheds or basements. Dust is another factor, more so for some, like those carving MDF. While it is understandable they made the CW the way they did in order to keep the price down and create a self-contained product, it does create a greater risk of failure.

I am pretty sure there was a thread here of someone else who relocated their electronics, but I can't find it. Despite not having issues with the electronics as of yet, I might consider relocation of them at some time. As mentioned earlier, some pics would be nice.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Yes, great idea.... Pictures would be good too. Getting with the program and replacing the QC with a CT or ROCK will reduce the vibration to a almost non issue. Be sure to check out tips and tricks, lots of good stuff to learn too.

This is an incredible hobby machine as you have found. With a few Thousand Hours of use under my belt, all vibration problems for ME were reduced to ZERO when I installed the ROCKS on my 4 machines. I believe Dust Collection is a bigger issue rather than move the electronics out of the enclosure. Anyone having a L2 Coil problem of the past with the Power Supply or the C1 Cap on the X Termination Board all had a vibrating QC. And as we have all learned, that a worn QC is the problem... I always tried to get just a few more projects out of a bad QC before changing it.... And that Sir, was the root of the Vibration Problem.... :roll:"Procrastination"... :roll: Like driving on a Flat Tire... Just one more mile..... It will beat you to a pulp.....

It would have been great if the machine was built to MIL SPEC and Hardened for Vibration and Durability Standards but then the price would have been much more... For a hobby machine, I am IMPRESSED.... I worked with and fixed Fanuc Robots when making Picture Tubes with Sony in San Diego in 95.... And this machine is Impressive for what it can do and it's reliability. I have been around a lot of Factory Automation with Sony and my time at the Philly Sony Service Center Fixing Play Stations and stuff... This is a Well Designed Machine, I would change little....

I plan to make wall hanging brackets for 2 of my machines and then mount the Cut Motor above the machine on a wall bracket so the flex just drapes down from above.

Making changes to the machine are just part of the nature of US Woodworkers, I know one guy that has 4 air cylinders to raise and lower the head removing the crank, jacking screws AND Keypad... He can now use a Rotary Jig with a PASS THROUGH capability... The Roller Wheels are like Donuts.... and slide over the Walking Stick.... Pretty Slick.... I have not talked to him in a while... A MacGyver of Rotary Jigs... Taking the first version and expanding on it...

I even have plans to make a Rotary Jig for the planned DCS1324 Flatbed Printer in the works, the 13 x 24 table moves under the print head like the Board in the CW... It will rotate Water Bottles for full color printing.... Don't have the Printer yet but it is on top of my New Equipment List... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Tpzt1G2v-c

A little on the Longer Cables and Electronic Noise as I have been in Electronics since 1974 growing up with Vacuum Tubes and all the way through Microprocessors... Electronic Noise is an issue when adding a length of wire to a TTL, CMOS or SERVO Circuit and the Sensor and Data Wires.... The rule of Thumb on Electronic Wires is to keep them as short as possible to prevent Electronic Noise.. Ever notice that Ferrite Bead or Block on the end of a Laptop Computer Power Supply.... That Metal Ferrite is designed similar to the L2 Coil on the CW Power Supply. It reduces Electronic Noise. A length of wire acts as a Antenna to Electronic Noise like the sparks being produced by the brush's of the Cut Motor. Fluorescent Lights have been a big source of early home electronic problems of the 70's and 80's as electronics made it's way into our homes... Wall Light Dimmer Switches are an Incredibly Noise Device.... The way some dimmers work is to turn on and off the power very fast and the duty cycle or the slower it comes on and goes off, the dimmer the light bulb.... They make an incredible amount of noise.... To test your shop for Electronic Noise all you need is a Battery Operated AM Radio.... The Whine, Pops, and Squeals will be appearent..... Everything from the Router you use in the shop to the DeWALT Battery Drill with a variable speed motor.... Cars of the 70's used Copper Wire for the Spark Plugs and made a popping sound... They were replaced with Graphite impregnated Cloth String inside a Rubber Cover that is standard today... The POPPING was picked up by the AM Radios in the Car... As more Engine Electronics was added the Popping had to GO....

In Hardened Electronics a Inverting Op Amp is used and the Transmission Wires are set up in Pairs and the signal is sent in a pair that is 180 degrees out. Picture a electronic pulse that is positive and at the same time on another lead it is negative. The Inverting Op Amp will only react to the pairs of signals.... IF for example a wire cable on a Navy Ship carried an important computer signal from point A to point B in a Shielded Cable it would work just fine. Now take the same cable that is not shielded and a repair is in progress on the ship and the wire just happens to pass through a room that a ARC WELDER is making a repair.... The Arc Welding is a Electronic NOISY process.... The first Cross Ocean Radio Transmitters were called "Spark Gap Transmitters". With the Un Protected wires and no Op Amp with 180 degree signal protection a Arc Weld Noise could be picked up by the Wires and show up at the receiver end and cause a false signal..... With a Shielded and 180 degree pulse protection, the POSITIVE SPIKES arriving at the Op Amp WITHOUT the Negative Signals will be IGNORED...... Well, this post went off on a Teaching Moment using an example form my Navy Electronic Teaching days... In all likely hood Leo's moving the Electronics out of the Enclosure and adding additional wire length to the setup will work just fine..... It would be interesting to see how a un grounded dust collection device would influence the electronics.... Some have posted in the past that while using a un grounded dust collection system with the CW a static charge built up on the machine and by pressing the STOP Button on the Keypad was IGNORED.... Could have been a case of Electronic Noise.... Grounding the CW Case to the Dust Collector took care of the Static Charge.... I think I have beat this to death.... LOL..

Pictures Please....:mrgreen:

WELCOME !!!

AL

Everything you ever wanted to know about Inverting Op Amp and Electronic Noise Reduction but were afraid to ask...

http://www.ti.com/lit/an/sboa128/sboa128.pdf

http://siengineer.com/images/Tutorial_on_Op_Amp_Noise.pdf

http://soe.rutgers.edu/sites/default/files/gset/silence.pdf

[leop]

thanks everyone for the input.

yes I have the rockchuck but have not tried it yet. I am looking forward to that. I also plan to relocate the cut motor, should have done it while I had it out last night.

It's good to hear that having the schematics will not be a problem for CW folks. My main concern was that they are intellectual property. I have no intention of copying the machine, but who knows who trolls this site looking for stuff to rip off.

Anyway now that the machine is fixed I'll start the relocation project today. I'll take lots of pictures.

Thanks again

[Smoken D]

Yes, great idea.... Pictures would be good too. Getting with the program and replacing the QC with a CT or ROCK will reduce the vibration to a almost non issue. Be sure to check out tips and tricks, lots of good stuff to learn too.

This is an incredible hobby machine as you have found. With a few Thousand Hours of use under my belt, all vibration problems for ME were reduced to ZERO when I installed the ROCKS on my 4 machines. I believe Dust Collection is a bigger issue rather than move the electronics out of the enclosure. Anyone having a L2 Coil problem of the past with the Power Supply or the C1 Cap on the X Termination Board all had a vibrating QC. And as we have all learned, that a worn QC is the problem... I always tried to get just a few more projects out of a bad QC before changing it.... And that Sir, was the root of the Vibration Problem...."Procrastination"... Like driving on a Flat Tire... Just one more mile..... It will beat you to a pulp.....

It would have been great if the machine was built to MIL SPEC and Hardened for Vibration and Durability Standards but then the price would have been much more... For a hobby machine, I am IMPRESSED.... I worked with and fixed Fanuc Robots when making Picture Tubes with Sony in San Diego in 95.... And this machine is Impressive for what it can do and it's reliability. I have been around a lot of Factory Automation with Sony and my time at the Philly Sony Service Center Fixing Play Stations and stuff... This is a Well Designed Machine, I would change little....

I plan to make wall hanging brackets for 2 of my machines and then mount the Cut Motor above the machine on a wall bracket so the flex just drapes down from above.

Making changes to the machine are just part of the nature of US Woodworkers, I know one guy that has 4 air cylinders to raise and lower the head removing the crank, jacking screws AND Keypad... He can now use a Rotary Jig with a PASS THROUGH capability... The Roller Wheels are like Donuts.... and slide over the Walking Stick.... Pretty Slick.... I have not talked to him in a while... A MacGyver of Rotary Jigs... Taking the first version and expanding on it...

I even have plans to make a Rotary Jig for the planned DCS1324 Flatbed Printer in the works, the 13 x 24 table moves under the print head like the Board in the CW... It will rotate Water Bottles for full color printing.... Don't have the Printer yet but it is on top of my New Equipment List... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Tpzt1G2v-c

A little on the Longer Cables and Electronic Noise as I have been in Electronics since 1974 growing up with Vacuum Tubes and all the way through Microprocessors... Electronic Noise is an issue when adding a length of wire to a TTL, CMOS or SERVO Circuit and the Sensor and Data Wires.... The rule of Thumb on Electronic Wires is to keep them as short as possible to prevent Electronic Noise.. Ever notice that Ferrite Bead or Block on the end of a Laptop Computer Power Supply.... That Metal Ferrite is designed similar to the L2 Coil on the CW Power Supply. It reduces Electronic Noise. A length of wire acts as a Antenna to Electronic Noise like the sparks being produced by the brush's of the Cut Motor. Fluorescent Lights have been a big source of early home electronic problems of the 70's and 80's as electronics made it's way into our homes... Wall Light Dimmer Switches are an Incredibly Noise Device.... The way some dimmers work is to turn on and off the power very fast and the duty cycle or the slower it comes on and goes off, the dimmer the light bulb.... They make an incredible amount of noise.... To test your shop for Electronic Noise all you need is a Battery Operated AM Radio.... The Whine, Pops, and Squeals will be appearent..... Everything from the Router you use in the shop to the DeWALT Battery Drill with a variable speed motor.... Cars of the 70's used Copper Wire for the Spark Plugs and made a popping sound... They were replaced with Graphite impregnated Cloth String inside a Rubber Cover that is standard today... The POPPING was picked up by the AM Radios in the Car... As more Engine Electronics was added the Popping had to GO....

In Hardened Electronics a Inverting Op Amp is used and the Transmission Wires are set up in Pairs and the signal is sent in a pair that is 180 degrees out. Picture a electronic pulse that is positive and at the same time on another lead it is negative. The Inverting Op Amp will only react to the pairs of signals.... IF for example a wire cable on a Navy Ship carried an important computer signal from point A to point B in a Shielded Cable it would work just fine. Now take the same cable that is not shielded and a repair is in progress on the ship and the wire just happens to pass through a room that a ARC WELDER is making a repair.... The Arc Welding is a Electronic NOISY process.... The first Cross Ocean Radio Transmitters were called "Spark Gap Transmitters". With the Un Protected wires and no Op Amp with 180 degree signal protection a Arc Weld Noise could be picked up by the Wires and show up at the receiver end and cause a false signal..... With a Shielded and 180 degree pulse protection, the POSITIVE SPIKES arriving at the Op Amp WITHOUT the Negative Signals will be IGNORED...... Well, this post went off on a Teaching Moment using an example form my Navy Electronic Teaching days... In all likely hood Leo's moving the Electronics out of the Enclosure and adding additional wire length to the setup will work just fine..... It would be interesting to see how a un grounded dust collection device would influence the electronics.... Some have posted in the past that while using a un grounded dust collection system with the CW a static charge built up on the machine and by pressing the STOP Button on the Keypad was IGNORED.... Could have been a case of Electronic Noise.... Grounding the CW Case to the Dust Collector took care of the Static Charge.... I think I have beat this to death.... LOL..

Pictures Please....:mrgreen:

WELCOME !!!

AL

Everything you ever wanted to know about Inverting Op Amp and Electronic Noise Reduction but were afraid to ask...



Now even I know where the term, "I see the LIGHT" comes from:)
Great post AL, maybe even I could learn something:-D Ha! That'll be the day:roll:

[Digitalwoodshop]

Got a little carried away... Most if has been said before, just put some of it in perspective... We are LUCKY to have this Really Great Machine.... My Business Depends on it.... Without it I would be using a lot more double sided tape and every tag would be hand cut on a router bearing bit... Now I just set it, select HOLD on the Intercom, and go back to the AC in the shop and listen as it works doing other work.

I miss being an instructor... This gives me my "Fix"...

AL


Pictures: Hand cutting before I got the CW to do it for me.... A Dirty job as that is Fiberglass and Plastic...