Board measurement???

[djarboe]

I have not used my Carvewrigh for some time, due to other cirsumstances. Finally got back to it today, re-lubed my cable, cleaned the tracks and recoated them with 3-in-1. Took the vacuum to it, etc.

At first I kept getting the check board sensor error. So, I looked here, and blew it out with canned computer air. That cleared that problem.

I want to carve an approximately 9 in long board, but am using rails that are about 38" long. I know all the old tricks (masking tape, etc.) , but now it only scans to the one end of the rail with the masking tape across it, and then stops measuring to the middle of the walnut. I tried putting in a piece of white paper, but could never figure out how to check the reflection level. I could not figure out how to get to that in the "options" menu, which was suggested by Al, I believe.

Seems to measure the width just fine. Stuck here.

I am an engineer, but for the life of me, this is confounding! Any suggestions?

Dave

[bergerud]

Is that not standard procedure? It has stopped to ask questions. Center? Cut to size? and so on. It does that when the board measures longer than the design board. OR is it a different problem. If it is a different problem, you may have to explain in more detail.

[djarboe]

I'm only using a 9" board, but I have 38" rails on both sides. Have masking tape on the end of the rails, and masking tape in the roller side of the support. Always worked before. My design is smaller then the piece I am putting in, due to the raies.
It finds the back end of the board, but quits at the center of the real board.

[djarboe]

I'm only using a 9" board, but I have 38" rails on both sides. Have masking tape on the end of the rails, and masking tape in the roller side of the support. Always worked before.

[bergerud]

I thought that maybe after finding the end and rolling for 9 inches, the machine stopped to ask you what to do. There is no other reason I know to stop in the middle of the board. (It is not yet trying to sense the other end until the front roller drops.) What does the display say when it stops in the middle of the board? If your machine is really doing something stupid, try reformatting the card and reinstalling the firmware.

[fwharris]

I'm only using a 9" board, but I have 38" rails on both sides. Have masking tape on the end of the rails, and masking tape in the roller side of the support. Always worked before.

If your just using rails with no fillers on the end (between the ends of each rail) then you need to run a strip of masking tape from your board end to the end strip. When the board is moving through on the measure the sensor is not seeing any board as soon as it comes out from underneath the sensor. The tape strip will give the sensor something to read off of..

[Digitalwoodshop]

YES, Floyd is on to the Answer I believe....

Remember that the Board Detector will only turn on for the END of the board after the 38 inch rails come out from under the roller and that roller going from compressed to un compressed or released tells the Board Sensor to WAKE UP.... time to WORK.... IF the tape is not correct at the end of the board between the rails of wood, that can be a problem. But I think that is OK.... But wanted to bring it up....

Same with the OTHER end of the board... Out from under the roller, Wake Up the Board Detector and look for the EDGE....

SO what I am going to bet on.... IS that in this case you used the selection of PLACE ON END.... IF you use Place on END like I always do.... It will measure the distance from the front of the board (Right Side of the Designer Screen) to the end of the board on the Designer Screen. SO the board COULD stop in the middle...... HAD you selected Place on CENTER it would have placed it on the center and measured the whole way...


Now for that Board Sensor Test.... With a card in the machine look at the 0 ZERO Key Pad Key... I think it has the word Options on it... Press it.... Then Sensor Data, then Board Sensor.... Using the up down arrow and enter key... The Board Sensor has 2 LED's like your TV Remote Control and used UV light. It shines on the board and between the LED's is a Photo Detector or the Receiver for the Reflected Light... The Numbers using WHITE Paper is the reflection of the UV Light on the Paper picked up my the center sensor. a 156 is perfect.... Get a 90 and the sensor can have a dirty window. If the outside is dirty, the can air is perfect... OR just wipe it... If the Inside is dirty.... My recommendation is to take the sensor OUT... Use a Knife and cut down the back removing the bump on the back... The lens then comes out easy... and can be cleaned.... EASILY LOST... Careful... I use Tape to re seal the back... I use white paper so my 156 is the same as your 156... Boards can be so many colors.. the darker the less light reflects...

Depending on your machine age, EARLY board Detectors were not glued to the black holder. This let them vibrate and the LED's Snapped OFF and Dust got down inside the lens easier... That is why the reading in important.... AND after a reading failure, turn the machine off and back on to re boot the program.. Sometimes the head is in the wrong place and it will not be over the board...


AL

[djarboe]

Well, I checked my sensor on white paper and got a 156. Next I formatted and re-flashed my card, and reloaded the project. Attached are two photos. The first is of my board arrangement, and the second on shows where the machine quits measuring. It then tells me the measured (incorrect) board size and asks me if I want to keep the original size. I will try running masking tape from the end of the board to the masking tape running between the rails. I have done this so many times in the past with no problems.
5349853499

[fwharris]

I have always had to run tape from the center of the board end to the end tape to fool the machine during the measure step.

Is the "measured size" it is saying the full size (rail length and board wide + rails)? The will be the numbers on the left side in the display. The numbers on the right side should be your design board size.

Are you telling it to YES OR NO to stay under the rollers?

[djarboe]

Well, I tried it again as shown below. No change. So, I even tried putting a white piece of paper on the walnut. No change. Any ideas? I have tried both keep under rollers and not. No change. My board length is only 9-1/2 inches, but the rails are 38". Should I change my project size to match the rails? I never had to do that before. It always finds the 38", and then I tell it to center the project on the board.
53500

[bergerud]

It looks like it is detecting the walnut edge and thinking that it has found the front end of the board. It should not even be checking until the front roller switch opens. At the place where it stopped, lift the front roller by hand a listen for the click. If it clicks it was open. That is all I can think of.

[bergerud]

The more I think about it, the more I think is must be the front roller switch. It could be stuck open.

[djarboe]

Well, with the carriage up, I lifted the front roller up so I could hear what the click sounds like. I did this several times, thinking if it is stuck, then cycling it by hand a few times might clear it out. Then I tried again. when it stopped, I lifted up on the roller off to the side (couldn't actually get to it where it was clamping the board). No click.

[bergerud]

Next try the sensor check. 0-7 down ? See if the computer is reading the compressed - released states of the front roller.

[AskBud]

Well, I tried it again as shown below. No change. So, I even tried putting a white piece of paper on the walnut. No change. Any ideas? I have tried both keep under rollers and not. No change. My board length is only 9-1/2 inches, but the rails are 38". Should I change my project size to match the rails? I never had to do that before. It always finds the 38", and then I tell it to center the project on the board.
53500Let's see if we can work through this roadblock!
Since you have the board centered in your rails, I'll only speak of options that apply to this set-up. Make your Design the same size as your walnut board.
The darkness of the walnut differs from your rails, so you need a run of masking tape across the rails and walnut, where the truck sensor passes. Remember that this sensor is behind the bit, so properly place the wood in the machine so the tape can do its job. Since the combination of the walnut and rails is wider than your design, you'll get a prompt about resizing (you will reply not to resize). As the machine measures the length, it may need a run of masking tape along the center line of the project, from end to end. I suspect that during this length measurement the machine will stop once and ask about placement, at which time you will select to "center".

let us know your results.
AskBud

[djarboe]

Both say compressed.

[unknowncarver]

just wondering why you would need 38 inch rails along side the 9 inch board? would a simple sled not work? Is the pattern for some reason unchangeable from a 38 inch length board? I know this does not help your situation to answer my question but I am just wondering under what circumstances would you need to do this.

[djarboe]

Won't carving through the masking tape gum up the bits and make the carving rougher?

[djarboe]

just wondering why you would need 38 inch rails along side the 9 inch board? would a simple sled not work? Is the pattern for some reason unchangeable from a 38 inch length board? I know this does not help your situation to answer my question but I am just wondering under what circumstances would you need to do this.

Well, I carve different things, so these rails are sort of "universal". Again, I have never had this problem in the past, even when carving walnut

[AskBud]

Won't carving through the masking tape gum up the bits and make the carving rougher?We're talking about standard masking (painters) tape, not Red Green's Duk tape!
It may be removed after the machine finishes the measurements and starts to carve (if you wish).

I've never had a pproblem with masking tape.
AskBud

[Digitalwoodshop]

Doing the same test, you crank the head up slightly and see if the reading changed to UN Compressed or RELEASED..... This is where the problem usually is...

The Rollers in the released state rest on a metal plate with 2 bolts in it. What happens when you have a board cranked down and use compressed air to blow the dust off the board, it gets on that plate... Then builds up over time in very thin layers like Filo dough. At some point you get a Roller Error or Measuring Error... You must remove the keypad side being careful that you don't RIP or DAMAGE the wires. Loosen the 2 bolts holding the resting plate and blow the packed dust out of the switch area. In my pictures you can see the slot that the switch arm is trying to get into to show released. With a buildup of sawdust the switch arm does not go into the slot....

But as I type this I believe I understand the problem MORE.... IS the board stopped in length and the Y is going back and forth measuring the board WIDTH as it fails...? I believe it IS.... And like mentioned above... The Light Colored Rails and DARK Wood... The Board Sensor is thinking you only have a 3/4 inch WIDE board.... It thinks the dark wood is off the edge of the board.... Showing Board Width.... So BEFORE you mess with dust in the Roller Switch.... I want you to place strips of Masking tape on the board where it has stopped... UNDER the Y Truck... So mark the spot and remove the board and place the tape in the Width of the Wood so the color the Board Detector is the Same from left to right and off the edge of the board.... I bet you will find the machine is back to normal...

The machine was seeing the reflected light of the walnut as off the edge of the board...

AL

[djarboe]

Doing the same test, you crank the head up slightly and see if the reading changed to UN Compressed or RELEASED..... This is where the problem usually is...

The Rollers in the released state rest on a metal plate with 2 bolts in it. What happens when you have a board cranked down and use compressed air to blow the dust off the board, it gets on that plate... Then builds up over time in very thin layers like Filo dough. At some point you get a Roller Error or Measuring Error... You must remove the keypad side being careful that you don't RIP or DAMAGE the wires. Loosen the 2 bolts holding the resting plate and blow the packed dust out of the switch area. In my pictures you can see the slot that the switch arm is trying to get into to show released. With a buildup of sawdust the switch arm does not go into the slot....

But as I type this I believe I understand the problem MORE.... IS the board stopped in length and the Y is going back and forth measuring the board WIDTH as it fails...? I believe it IS.... And like mentioned above... The Light Colored Rails and DARK Wood... The Board Sensor is thinking you only have a 3/4 inch WIDE board.... It thinks the dark wood is off the edge of the board.... Showing Board Width.... So BEFORE you mess with dust in the Roller Switch.... I want you to place strips of Masking tape on the board where it has stopped... UNDER the Y Truck... So mark the spot and remove the board and place the tape in the Width of the Wood so the color the Board Detector is the Same from left to right and off the edge of the board.... I bet you will find the machine is back to normal...

The machine was seeing the reflected light of the walnut as off the edge of the board...

AL

OK, with the carriage up, both roller sensors say "released". When cranked down, they both say "compressed"

[bergerud]

We are all missing something here! Have you tried simply measuring the board. Measure the length of the board. (7 - 1) It will measure the width first (to find center of the width) and then it will measure the length. If it fails to do this, we will have a simpler problem to trouble shoot.

[djarboe]

Doing the same test, you crank the head up slightly and see if the reading changed to UN Compressed or RELEASED..... This is where the problem usually is...

The Rollers in the released state rest on a metal plate with 2 bolts in it. What happens when you have a board cranked down and use compressed air to blow the dust off the board, it gets on that plate... Then builds up over time in very thin layers like Filo dough. At some point you get a Roller Error or Measuring Error... You must remove the keypad side being careful that you don't RIP or DAMAGE the wires. Loosen the 2 bolts holding the resting plate and blow the packed dust out of the switch area. In my pictures you can see the slot that the switch arm is trying to get into to show released. With a buildup of sawdust the switch arm does not go into the slot....

But as I type this I believe I understand the problem MORE.... IS the board stopped in length and the Y is going back and forth measuring the board WIDTH as it fails...? I believe it IS.... And like mentioned above... The Light Colored Rails and DARK Wood... The Board Sensor is thinking you only have a 3/4 inch WIDE board.... It thinks the dark wood is off the edge of the board.... Showing Board Width.... So BEFORE you mess with dust in the Roller Switch.... I want you to place strips of Masking tape on the board where it has stopped... UNDER the Y Truck... So mark the spot and remove the board and place the tape in the Width of the Wood so the color the Board Detector is the Same from left to right and off the edge of the board.... I bet you will find the machine is back to normal...

The machine was seeing the reflected light of the walnut as off the edge of the board...

AL

OK, put the masking tape across and along the walnut, making sure it matched up with the other. The sensor measured the width correctly, but again it stopped moving about half way through the walnut while measuring length.

I recently updated from 1.180 to 1.182. Should I try "backing up" to 1.180???

[AskBud]

OK, put the masking tape across and along the walnut, making sure it matched up with the other. The sensor measured the width correctly, but again it stopped moving about half way through the walnut while measuring length.

I recently updated from 1.180 to 1.182. Should I try "backing up" to 1.180???What does the read-out say?
AskBud

[djarboe]

What does the read-out say?
AskBud

The read-out gives me the measured width and the project with, and asks me if I want keep the original size.

Geez, how dumb do I feel now. It had been so long since I carved that I forgot the sequence. When it stopped in the middle of the board, I thought something was wrong, so I always quit there. Once I told it to keep the original size, it THEN measured the length. It is now carving happily away, and in the correct place on the walnut.

I am so sorry to have bothered you all with this, and I REALLY appreciate everyones input. I learned a lot about the other sensors, and what to check.

You just can't troubleshoot stupidity. I guess the old saying about "use it or loose it" applies to everything.

Embarresed Dave

[AskBud]

Good deal!
:-D :roll:

[djarboe]

Good deal!
:-D :roll:

Thank you!

[Digitalwoodshop]

Snicker..... WE have all done something similar... Don't feel bad.... My first Public BLUNDER was posting my MPC with V Carved Text on it and the machine was asking for the 1/16th carving bit.... Every Time.... I was SO confused.... The reply.... "AL... Flip the board over in Designer, it has a Carving on it....".... I had used the carving project board to start a new project and never saw the carving on the back.... AND never saw "Back Side of Board" in the setup LCD...

SO your width was WIDER than the Designer Board...... OK... GOOD JOB !!!!

AL

[fwharris]

Embarrassed Dave,

We are laughing with you, well we hope you are able to laugh about this after things have cooled down! All been there and done that!

[DocWheeler]

Just a note that should accompany this thread.

The board sensor (that detects the edges) is off while traveling down the "X" direction after about an inch and a quarter from the leading edge, and does not come back "on" until about two inches AFTER the right roller drops off the rails/board.

No need for tape in the "X" direction, and the board color makes no difference (in that direction) because the sensor is being ignored by the firmware.

[djarboe]

Thanks to all for making me feel a tad less stupid. I felt like a guy trying to get out of a room by banging his head on the wall while he is standing right next to the door.

Your help is greatly appreciated, and I know I can always come here for help... even with stupid questions!

Dave, now laughing at myself.