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View Full Version : 3rd owner of a never used A-model...



badbert
05-06-2012, 03:07 AM
Ok to start with I really want to take time to thank all of you. This forum is a wonderful resource. And the people I see going out of there way to help newbies like me, makes me glad I purchased this machine. SOO... I answered an ad on Craigslist. Un-"used" Compucarve. I paid $900 for it... Before I discovered this wonderful forum. But no use crying over spilled milk. I have coveted the machine since first viewing. And at that time they were in the $2000 dollar range. So I thought it was a good buy... As usual too good to be true. The reason it was unused, is because it won't work. I have built or repaired a hundred or so computers. And I am a retired Automotive Developmental Technician. Electronic Engine controls were my specialty. So I am a pretty competent at diagnostic routines. Originally I got a close cover error. I proved out both switches with my fluke by pinning out the back of the z board. The switches were working. And in fact the cover was just the first failure. None of the sensors were reading. So after several hours of searching and reading here I eventually traced it to an improperly seated Ribbon cable in the z motor (Thanx Al). 52983 I now have working sensors. 5298452985529865298752988 But anytime the machine calls for movement i immediately get the following error 52989. I disassembled and checked every connection I can find. I tried running the user tests for the motors 52990

badbert
05-06-2012, 03:13 AM
And I get to this page 52991 but no matter what I do it just goes back to this page 52992 I did notice that the controller was warm in a spot when the sensors were dead. I suspect the controller is the problem, but do not know how to prove-out without a test part. Any input will be greatly appreciated! Here are a few pics with more info 529935299452995529965299752998

badbert
05-06-2012, 03:16 AM
52999530005300153002

chief2007
05-06-2012, 08:14 AM
52999530005300153002

Looking at the last photo - the switch cover/scanning wiring harness looks loose - so press that in if you haven't already.

Now when you go to the user test option, have you been able to scroll with the up and down arrows to scroll use to the other test (Z, Y, cut motor)?
If you can test you Z and Y motors, if you get a Z axis stall again more than likely the FFC cable itself is bad, or the Z motor itself may be bad or dust in the encoder.

I have a cable I can send you if needed. I also have a controller I use for troubleshooting. Controllers run $303 plus shipping so best to make sure that is what it is first.

And sorry to say, the machine could have had the controller changed once already. When you get a new controller, there are no hours on it. Only way to know for sure is if LHR has a history on the machine.

Let us know about the other users test and we can go from there.

katec911
05-06-2012, 08:34 AM
I had a z axis stall on my machine for about a month... couldnt clear it at all... finally changed the z motor and it is back running fine. I found if you tried to run a z motor test it would keep saying remove board and bit. Finally spoke to a help desk person and he suggested replacing the z motor and see if that helps. This after I changed the board sensor, which clearly was bad, the fcc cable then finally the z motor. It is amazing to me how precise the directions are for any of the troubleshooting and the forum... You guys are a godsend and I thank you all for your help! Badbert... stick with it ... it will be well worth it in the end! And the people here in the forum are priceless!!!

TerryT
05-06-2012, 10:15 AM
If it is still an original "A" machine you should do the z upgrade anyway. It may just correct the problem.

chief2007
05-06-2012, 10:56 AM
From the picture, it looks like that has been done already - Note the position of the wiring harness for the cover switches and scanning probe.

Digitalwoodshop
05-06-2012, 12:36 PM
So like pointed out above by other users, the "A" unit does have the new 14 pin FSC Cable as seen in photo 4 post 3. The cover switch plugs into the circuit board on the top of the board and the big connector on that board has wings or clips to hold the wire.

In a earlier picture I see that the Dust Cap on the top FSC Cable is missing... It is a black plastic cap that the FSC cable goes through and extends the holding of the cable about a inch and a half away from the Z Motor. This HOLDS the cable UP and away from catching on a cooling fins of the Y Motor. It is my belief that the same thing happened to THIS machine as happened to ME.... One time I forgot to put that black plastic cap on.... It let the FSC Cable SAG and while under power the FSC cable was torn DOWN and AWAY from the top Z Motor Connector. This Caused a SHORT CIRCUIT as it RIPPED AWAY.... Lucky for me I had a extra Z Motor as the Z was DEAD after that Short... I would get a Z Stall upon starting up. This is since the Z going up and down homing in the startup of the machine is one of the first things it will do. So it is my belief that you or someone SMOKED the Z Motor and the FIX would be to order a Z Motor from LHR and a new 14 pin FSC Cable... ALSO.... Since I am thinking about it.... Pull the FSC cable with the power OFF and COUNT the Wires.... This could be that someone changed the FSC Cable Package of 2 Circuit boards and then put the OLD 18 pin cable back ON..... It would be a FIRST.... But if you didn't know better... A Cable is a Cable.... Beer is Beer.... Coke.. Pepsi... Same SAME... But in this case FIRST count the conductors....

Now the Board Sensor... Place a sheet of White Copy paper on the board and crank the head down and move the Y over the paper... Now with Options and Sensor Data look at Board Sensor. A Perfect reading would be a 156.... a 90 would be a dirty window either inside or outside. I would order one from LHR too.... The early sensors were not glued and will snap off the LED's.

OK... Good Luck.... I am in the Shop today printing Fire Tags, you can always call me. My number in 570- Six Eight Five -WOOD.

Picture shows cap not fully installed.

AL

badbert
05-06-2012, 02:32 PM
Looking at the last photo - the switch cover/scanning wiring harness looks loose - so press that in if you haven't already.

It pulled loose when I moved the wiring to show the latches on the z-pack.

Now when you go to the user test option, have you been able to scroll with the up and down arrows to scroll use to the other test (Z, Y, cut motor)?
If you can test you Z and Y motors, if you get a Z axis stall again more than likely the FFC cable itself is bad, or the Z motor itself may be bad or dust in the encoder.

All of the tests do the same thing. They show the remove bit and then when I press any key it goes back to the test window.

I have a cable I can send you if needed.

Greatly appreciated but I did pin the cable out. It is 14 and continuity is good on all pins.

I also have a controller I use for troubleshooting. Controllers run $303 plus shipping so best to make sure that is what it is first.

How can I prove out the controller?

And sorry to say, the machine could have had the controller changed once already. When you get a new controller, there are no hours on it. Only way to know for sure is if LHR has a history on the machine.

Let us know about the other users test and we can go from there.


I had a z axis stall on my machine for about a month... couldnt clear it at all... finally changed the z motor and it is back running fine. I found if you tried to run a z motor test it would keep saying remove board and bit. Finally spoke to a help desk person and he suggested replacing the z motor and see if that helps. This after I changed the board sensor, which clearly was bad, the fcc cable then finally the z motor. It is amazing to me how precise the directions are for any of the troubleshooting and the forum... You guys are a godsend and I thank you all for your help! Badbert... stick with it ... it will be well worth it in the end! And the people here in the forum are priceless!!!

Couldn't agree more! And I am a long way from giving up!


If it is still an original "A" machine you should do the z upgrade anyway. It may just correct the problem.

Z-Pack has been done.


From the picture, it looks like that has been done already - Note the position of the wiring harness for the cover switches and scanning probe.

You are correct sir!


So like pointed out above by other users, the "A" unit does have the new 14 pin FSC Cable as seen in photo 4 post 3. The cover switch plugs into the circuit board on the top of the board and the big connector on that board has wings or clips to hold the wire.

In a earlier picture I see that the Dust Cap on the top FSC Cable is missing... It is a black plastic cap that the FSC cable goes through and extends the holding of the cable about a inch and a half away from the Z Motor. This HOLDS the cable UP and away from catching on a cooling fins of the Y Motor. It is my belief that the same thing happened to THIS machine as happened to ME.... One time I forgot to put that black plastic cap on.... It let the FSC Cable SAG and while under power the FSC cable was torn DOWN and AWAY from the top Z Motor Connector. This Caused a SHORT CIRCUIT as it RIPPED AWAY.... Lucky for me I had a extra Z Motor as the Z was DEAD after that Short... I would get a Z Stall upon starting up. This is since the Z going up and down homing in the startup of the machine is one of the first things it will do. So it is my belief that you or someone SMOKED the Z Motor and the FIX would be to order a Z Motor from LHR and a new 14 pin FSC Cable... ALSO.... Since I am thinking about it.... Pull the FSC cable with the power OFF and COUNT the Wires.... This could be that someone changed the FSC Cable Package of 2 Circuit boards and then put the OLD 18 pin cable back ON..... It would be a FIRST.... But if you didn't know better... A Cable is a Cable.... Beer is Beer.... Coke.. Pepsi... Same SAME... But in this case FIRST count the conductors....

I removed the cover during inspection and for photos. It is 14 pins and I pinned it out all leads have continuity. The cable was pulled out a little this caused all sensors to be inop and the controller was warm (possible short). Is there a manual way that i can test the z motor?

Now the Board Sensor... Place a sheet of White Copy paper on the board and crank the head down and move the Y over the paper... Now with Options and Sensor Data look at Board Sensor. A Perfect reading would be a 156.... a 90 would be a dirty window either inside or outside. I would order one from LHR too.... The early sensors were not glued and will snap off the LED's.

I have not done the white paper part. But it does react when I move my hand under it.

OK... Good Luck.... I am in the Shop today printing Fire Tags, you can always call me. My number in 570- Six Eight Five -WOOD.

Picture shows cap not fully installed.

Sorry I do not understand, Cap? And I would be honored to call you. Unfortunately I only get time to play, after my other work is done. Usually late at night, and I would never call someone that late!

AL

Thank you all so much for your help! I know we can get it working And I am a very patient man... ;) I am really looking for a way to manually check the controller and the motors. I do not believe the controller has been changed, simply because the machine was SPOTLESS when I purchased it. You could not clean it this well. The dust you see is from being in my shop. The cover still has the protector on it. And the bits were unopened.

chief2007
05-06-2012, 03:00 PM
Start at the USER test option. Use the up and down arrows to scroll to the Z motor test, the Y motor, and the X motor test. Test each one of these

If none of these work it is most likely the controller. If they work with exception of the Z motor, then the z motor is bad.

For us users, and I may be wrong, but about the only way to test the controller is via the user tests or changing it out with one that is good (why I found and bought a spare).

Al and company please chime in is there is another way - I would like that info as well.

Digitalwoodshop
05-06-2012, 08:03 PM
Good Job so far.... I am in the shop until 11 PM almost every night and it is a shop phone so it will bother no one ringing after hours.

The Cap is that black plastic retainer shown in the picture above. When installed with a single screw, it supports the FSC Cable and won't let is sag. In the picture you can see Shoe Glue or something like it on the FSC Cable plug. Most plugs were glued in the factory. For this black cap I like to install it and place a 1 inch long piece of masking tape over the top of the cap and FSC Cable locking it in place.

I would ask LHR to buy one.... It will save you money in the end.... If the cable ripped out or sagged to the point that it shorted out the Servo power then the Z or The Z Driver Transistor in the Computer might be fried.... Some Servo Drives like this that I worked with at the Sony Picture Tube plant, they has a 1/16 amp fuses on the output of the servo drivers. In this case, either the Servo Motor Smokes as my Z did, or the Driver Transistor does... If you open the computer, it will be screwed to the wall of the computer for a heat sink... The X, Y, and Z Drivers. I have yet to have cause to replace a Driver Transistor, did it all the time at Sony.

I have a Magic Jack Internet Phone and it is FREE to call you back if yours is a toll call. It will have a 215 Area code as it comes out of the Internet in Bucks County, PA near Philly.

Good Luck,

AL

Found this old picture showing masking tape over the FSC Cable and Cap preventing the cable from pulling out..... My choice of the slang word "vice" has gotten me more email.... What do you mean? "Vice" = "Rather" in my World traveled Vocabulary.... I remember getting teased at a Fire Dept Carnival in the 80's... The Kitchen Ladies were asking me it I wanted this and that with my Meal... Just to get me to say.... "I will pass" = "No Thanks".... They got a Chuckle out of my Slang.... I also picked up talking with my hands after a few Navy Visits to Italy.... I can't stop... LOL.... 27 Countries in 20 years and I picked up a few Slang Words...

badbert
05-06-2012, 09:18 PM
In a earlier picture I see that the Dust Cap on the top FSC Cable is missing... It is a black plastic cap that the FSC cable goes through and extends the holding of the cable about a inch and a half away from the Z Motor. This HOLDS the cable UP and away from catching on a cooling fins of the Y Motor. It is my belief that the same thing happened to THIS machine as happened to ME.... One time I forgot to put that black plastic cap on.... It let the FSC Cable SAG and while under power the FSC cable was torn DOWN and AWAY from the top Z Motor Connector. This Caused a SHORT CIRCUIT as it RIPPED AWAY.... Lucky for me I had a extra Z Motor as the Z was DEAD after that Short... I would get a Z Stall upon starting up. This is since the Z going up and down homing in the startup of the machine is one of the first things it will do. So it is my belief that you or someone SMOKED the Z Motor and the FIX would be to order a Z Motor from LHR and a new 14 pin FSC Cable... ALSO.... Since I am thinking about it.... Pull the FSC cable with the power OFF and COUNT the Wires.... This could be that someone changed the FSC Cable Package of 2 Circuit boards and then put the OLD 18 pin cable back ON..... It would be a FIRST.... But if you didn't know better... A Cable is a Cable.... Beer is Beer.... Coke.. Pepsi... Same SAME... But in this case FIRST count the conductors....

I removed the cover during inspection and for photos. It is 14 pins and I pinned it out all leads have continuity. The cable was pulled out a little this caused all sensors to be inop and the controller was warm (possible short). Is there a manual way that i can test the z motor?

I do have the cap. I removed it for pictures. The tape Idea is a good one! You are quite fond of masking tape Al! LOL I can't get any output from the controller. None of the drive tests work. For EEC Processors we had a breakout box, that attaches between the cable and the controller, giving you access to pin-out each wire. Could the controller have been damaged by the improper seating of the z cable? This obviously caused a short to ground, evident by none of the sensors working until it was properly seated. Or is it more likely caused by improper use. Starting with no memory card...etc?

Digitalwoodshop
05-06-2012, 09:48 PM
Good Job so far... The Masking Tape is a inside joke... I joke to use lots of masking tape as I have Stock in Masking Tape....

Good to talk to you tonight..

So at this time the FSC Cable is most likely good, but when flexed could make or break as it is flat copper.'

So to first move forward, you mentioned that the Servo Box and Computer, all one unit was warm.... That could be because of the short circuit of the FSC Cable at an angle. I would un plug the machine and remove the computer and remove the cover and look inside. The Servo Drivers will be screwed to the wall.... Look for burnt resistors or burnt parts..... If all looks OK...

Next is to un plug the Z Motor at the motor plug, and try to get the machine to move the Y Axis. A Shorted Z Motor could draw down the Servo Power. Un plugging the Z could bring the voltage back to normal and let the Y Work.....

Does someone know the pin out of the Power Supply Voltages? I believe it is 4 wires, 5 volts DC and either 12 or 24 volts DC. ????? It was posted one time...

Another test would be to remove the plug from the Z Motor and remove the Y from the machine and hold it up at the Z plugged in to the Z Jack and try to move it with the computer controls....

I am thinking the Z Motor is Shorted.... Bad....

Let us know what you find.

AL