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jpaluck
05-05-2012, 09:41 PM
Not sure what exactly your confusion is? You seem to be questioning patterns made by folks as to copy rights? Then seem to question if one scans a pattern is it legal?

Are you scanning some patterns you in question about? What are they? Are You modeling some your in question about?

jpaluck
05-05-2012, 10:01 PM
Here is a great example of the WRONG thing to do to help with confusion...this seller SFSALES2000 takes patterns from memebers of the Carvewirght, who posted for FREE, and then re-sales. The horse in the pic I circled was mine from a while back..too funny..but this is wrong. State Seals and such I would check with the state...I am sure they can help clear it up for you.

unknowncarver
05-05-2012, 10:03 PM
I was wondering if I or someone used blender or scanned objects to make patterns then put them for sale on their own site or on pattern depot would that be ok? Same thing with getting images from internet and making patterns. Seems that is done a lot and then those patterns are sold. This has nothing to do with ebay but just sales in general.

unknowncarver
05-05-2012, 10:05 PM
I actually was going to just drop this question and not start a new thread because it seemed to generate so much controversy. I still don't want to open up a can of worms so before this turns bad I just want to make that clear.

jpaluck
05-05-2012, 10:39 PM
What software are you using to make patterns with? Me personally I dont own a scanner nor the scanning probe I just model things from scratch...sometimes and image in the background for reference of say a trout or something I am modeling...maybe I took the photo maybe I got one off the net.Sometimes I use multiple images for reference. Do I consider this my pattern? Yep. There is nothing wrong with using something as a reference such as an artist sketching a person/model posing in front of them. As far as scanning here is my opinion - I see nothing wrong with and re-selling it. For example I am thinking about a scanner - nextengine - for hobby. On my desk I have a figurine of a German Shepherd - shephard lover here - so if I scan and it comes out well would I sell? I have no issue with it. The figurine is plastic and not a 3d item in the sense of an stl obj fbx lwo etc file that I know of. After I scanned it in full 3d its worthless for cw or cnc for that matter as a 2.5 d model that is. Now more work will need to be done. Converting the full 3d model to a carveable 2.5d model, maybe retoplogize the model, sculpt the model a bit to make it look right - so at this point would I re-sell as mine probably - no problem with it.

Taking a 3d model from the interenet and importing into blender then reselling IMO is wrong. Why I shared a lot of them in that thread...some I didnt share maybe I will sell or just delete..those are ones I modeled - but if I wanted to sell them I see no issue with it. My feeling is the files are already in obj stl fbx lwo formats...to augment them a hair and re-sale is wrong.

State seals? I have no clue what the copyright is on those. I have made some name brand stuff and have carved for myself..coors crown royal NFL stuff. With what I know about modeling I can pretty much make any pattern I want for myself...will I re-sell no to stuff like just mentioned..my Neice loved Dora so I made a model and carved a peice for her..would I re-sell Disney things? nope


Whate are you thinking of carving or modeling that you are concerned with? Do you model or scan?..Lot of smart folks here

I dont see why this thread would get ugly

unknowncarver
05-05-2012, 11:00 PM
I don't really know yet I started playing with blender as well and I have scanning probe but have not used it yet. I bought a used machine on ebay and yes pattern disks from ebay. I do have to say it was before I found this forum but the disks were sure easier than finding and downloading one by one, they were categorized and easy to use. Once I found this forum it seemed like a lot of money is being made from selling patterns and I thought doing so might help to pay for my machine and hobby. But I wanted to make sure I did it right, I don't want to get in trouble. That is where my confusion was, using models, pictures, scans etc. to make my own patterns. It really struck me when I asked the question (and maybe I did not ask it right) how I got jumped on and people keep hitting me with ebay sellers and that was never my question.

TerryT
05-05-2012, 11:13 PM
OK, let's just cut to the chase. Is your interest in copyright because you are one of the sellers on ebay that is selling the intellectual properpy of others? Not an accusation just a question.

Tell ya what. My phone number is on my website. Give me a call and we can talk about it.

jpaluck
05-05-2012, 11:23 PM
I bought my machine in 07/08 and had zero issues finding patterns here. Could CW put a free pattern section and organize it? Sure but why would they? LOL its free stuff shared by forum members...they sell machines and have a pattern store.

Alot of money from patterns?..lol thats surely a relative term...put it to this way I am not quitting the day job anytime soon. Not trying to discourage you from making them. My perspective it's a fun hobby. Scan away and Model away. Post some pics of your models.

Did you end getting the Blender Vids? Good stuff for creating reliefs

unknowncarver
05-06-2012, 12:03 AM
OK, let's just cut to the chase. Is your interest in copyright because you are one of the sellers on ebay that is selling the intellectual properpy of others? Not an accusation just a question.

Tell ya what. My phone number is on my website. Give me a call and we can talk about it.

No I am not selling any patterns right now, not on ebay or anywhere else, This is what I was talking about that things got crazy as soon as I posted. Your website is not on your post but it doesn't matter what do we have to talk about? I have bought the disks and that was before I knew that I could find patterns here.

jpaluck
05-06-2012, 12:10 AM
Your just trying to see what you can do...cool. Post some pics...Did you get the Blender Videos?

TerryT
05-06-2012, 12:13 AM
I do not believe that anyone here is qualified to give legal advise. I can understand that you may not want to talk about it. But my advice would still be to contact a copyright attorney to answer your questions. It would be foolish to depend on legal advice from anyone else. I would like to talk to you because I am very interested in why you are so concerned about the legal issues involved here and why you are so defensive and confrontational.

fwharris
05-06-2012, 12:14 AM
No I am not selling any patterns right now, not on ebay or anywhere else, This is what I was talking about that things got crazy as soon as I posted. Your website is not on your post but it doesn't matter what do we have to talk about? I have bought the disks and that was before I knew that I could find patterns here.

Got to ask, Since you did buy the disks (does that mean more than one?), how do you feel now knowing that what you paid for from Ebay was available for free? Did you give the seller any feedback concerning this issue?

unknowncarver
05-06-2012, 12:16 AM
I bought my machine in 07/08 and had zero issues finding patterns here. Could CW put a free pattern section and organize it? Sure but why would they? LOL its free stuff shared by forum members...they sell machines and have a pattern store.

Alot of money from patterns?..lol thats surely a relative term...put it to this way I am not quitting the day job anytime soon. Not trying to discourage you from making them. My perspective it's a fun hobby. Scan away and Model away. Post some pics of your models.

Did you end getting the Blender Vids? Good stuff for creating reliefs Thanks Jpaluck for discussing this with out accusations. I only began using blender from your posts a few days ago, I went through the get started tutorial videos but with work (my real job) I have not yet had much time to put it to work. Wierd how even moderators are making accusations now. It has been nice that you have been straight with me, I have had my carvewright for about a year but only found this forum a few weeks ago. Not sure I like it though. Some like you are helpful but overall this place seems angry and accusatory.

jpaluck
05-06-2012, 12:21 AM
Unknown

I have NEVER found it angry at all nor accusutory. Actually one of the best groups of guys I found on the net. Everyone pretty much helps each other out shares their stuff etc...they just get pissed when folks steal from them as a community..can't blame them on that one..showed you the e-bay with one of mine there...what a scumbag. SFSALES2000 was actually on this forum...lol cant mention name or my post get deleted...so a lot us know who the guy is....Funny after some folks broke him out he never came back...lol

unknowncarver
05-06-2012, 12:23 AM
Got to ask, Since you did buy the disks (does that mean more than one?), how do you feel now knowing that what you paid for from Ebay was available for free? Did you give the seller any feedback concerning this issue?

I did, I just looked and I bought them from sharkteeman and I did give positive feedback. I bought one with 250 patterns and a second edition disk with 50 patterns. At the time I thought it was a good deal and to be honest I still think it was I have used them for about a year and made many projects. In fact I sent him a message when I was getting an error on my machine and he referred me here to find answers. That is how I found this forum. Turns out my truck was hitting wires on the non keyboard side and when I moved them up out of the way my machine started working again. Once I found this forum I got more interested in making my own patterns in a better way. I have imported some from pics on the net but the results were not anything like patterns I got on the disks. Now I am learning why from this forum.

ladjr
05-06-2012, 12:25 AM
Your just trying to see what you can do...cool. Post some pics...Did you get the Blender Videos?

I have been reading all the posts. Just up front I have never sold a pattern in my life. However I have used patterns posted to carve projects. I have always given them as presents. I also donate to churches and Nursing homes. I just wanted to make sure that is OK.

Leo

jpaluck
05-06-2012, 12:31 AM
Leo I cant speak for the other who have shared patterns but me if some makes money or whatever THRU CARVING one i shared more power to them..happy for them. I think what is annoying when you make a pattern and a person sells it as his own..

unknowncarver
05-06-2012, 12:33 AM
I do not believe that anyone here is qualified to give legal advise. I can understand that you may not want to talk about it. But my advice would still be to contact a copyright attorney to answer your questions. It would be foolish to depend on legal advice from anyone else. I would like to talk to you because I am very interested in why you are so concerned about the legal issues involved here and why you are so defensive and confrontational.
I thought I answered that already, but actually I was never looking for legal advice and I never asked for It. Originally I asked if it was ok to use 3d sculptures and pics found on the net to make and sell patterns. I saw where several people were selling patterns on their own websites and on pattern depot and I was wondering about copyright issues. Maybe I worded something wrong but I still do not think I was defensive and confrontational, in fact it seemed to me that I was immediately confronted and even though I never mentioned or even thought about ebay sellers that is what was immediately thrown in to the mix by others. Take a look at my original posts, I never brought up ebay.

fwharris
05-06-2012, 12:40 AM
I have been reading all the posts. Just up front I have never sold a pattern in my life. However I have used patterns posted to carve projects. I have always given them as presents. I also donate to churches and Nursing homes. I just wanted to make sure that is OK.

Leo

Got for it! That is what is all about. Sharing our designs so that people have things to carve and help them with their design requests for carving. The greatest feature of this forum when I got started. Many used what was being asked and posted/shared as a learning tool to learn how to use designer and the pattern editor. Ken, Doc, Jerry, BJB and many others taught me a lot about the tools.

TerryT
05-06-2012, 12:48 AM
I thought I answered that already, but actually I was never looking for legal advice and I never asked for It. Originally I asked if it was ok to use 3d sculptures and pics found on the net to make and sell patterns. I saw where several people were selling patterns on their own websites and on pattern depot and I was wondering about copyright issues. Maybe I worded something wrong but I still do not think I was defensive and confrontational, in fact it seemed to me that I was immediately confronted and even though I never mentioned or even thought about ebay sellers that is what was immediately thrown in to the mix by others. Take a look at my original posts, I never brought up ebay.

My appologies,
It was this response to my question "are you asking for legal advise" that through me off.

I am not the only one discussing these issues on this forum. But, yes I guess I am. LOL.

unknowncarver
05-06-2012, 12:50 AM
Got to ask, Since you did buy the disks (does that mean more than one?), how do you feel now knowing that what you paid for from Ebay was available for free? Did you give the seller any feedback concerning this issue?

I just reread your question and are you talking about leaving feedback after I found out the patterns came from this forum? I found out only a few weeks ago and I bought the disks almost a year ago. You can not go back later and leave feedback. You only have so much time (i think like 30 days) after a sale to leave feedback so I could not go back and change it or leave additional feedback.

ladjr
05-06-2012, 01:13 AM
Got for it! That is what is all about. Sharing our designs so that people have things to carve and help them with their design requests for carving. The greatest feature of this forum when I got started. Many used what was being asked and posted/shared as a learning tool to learn how to use designer and the pattern editor. Ken, Doc, Jerry, BJB and many others taught me a lot about the tools.

Thanks for the answer.

My 3rd machine was shipped from Carvewright on Wednesday. As soon as I get it I will be ordering your dust collector. I have it both of my other machines and it has made carving fun again.

Leo

TerryT
05-06-2012, 01:20 AM
You're a lucky guy Leo! I'm still just dreaming of a third machine. The two I have are humming just about everyday. My #1 machine still has the QC chuck on it but it was one of the good ones that still works perfectly.

fwharris
05-06-2012, 02:58 AM
Thanks for the answer.

My 3rd machine was shipped from Carvewright on Wednesday. As soon as I get it I will be ordering your dust collector. I have it both of my other machines and it has made carving fun again.

Leo

Leo,

Thank you sir! Send me an email when your ready, special deal ;) !

PCW
05-06-2012, 08:18 AM
Unknown

I have NEVER found it angry at all nor accusutory. Actually one of the best groups of guys I found on the net. Everyone pretty much helps each other out shares their stuff etc...they just get pissed when folks steal from them as a community..can't blame them on that one..showed you the e-bay with one of mine there...what a scumbag. SFSALES2000 was actually on this forum...lol cant mention name or my post get deleted...so a lot us know who the guy is....Funny after some folks broke him out he never came back...lol

John

I have to agree with you. I mostly read the forum nowadays. Still try to read every post even though I have not use the Carvewrigt in over 2 years. I enjoy reading and keeping up with the people here. I upgraded machines so I don't use ptn or mpc files any more. Personally it is just a hobby for me and never sold patterns.. sold few carvings for that matter. I donate some of my work and give them away to friends and family and I find that more rewarding to me than any monetary gains could ever bring. I follow several forums and this one has some good peeps on it. :mrgreen:

Dan

lynnfrwd
05-06-2012, 08:38 AM
So unknowncarver, why dont you introduce yourself, where you from and why the mysterious forum name?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

bjbethke
05-06-2012, 09:30 AM
http://stockphotolicense.com/faq/ (http://stockphotolicense.com/faq/) - This is a good guide to start with.

I posted a PDF about this WEB page.

I started to buy Royalty-Free image designs to make my CD/DVD’s that I offer for donations. This Bird Illustrations book has 419 designs. I like to use this type image to start making PTN for my CW unit.

I think it is better to be safe then sorry. BJB

unknowncarver
05-06-2012, 09:59 AM
So unknowncarver, why dont you introduce yourself, where you from and why the mysterious forum name?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I always liked the unknown comic from the old gong show so I named myself the unknown carver. My name is James and I am from Florida. Nice to meet you Lynn.

unknowncarver
05-06-2012, 10:05 AM
BJ, thanks for the pdf. It was good information. This part seems especially to apply.

[ What is a photo ‘mash-up’ or derivative work?
A mashup or mash-up is any Digital media content containing any or all of text, graphics, audio, video and animation drawn from pre-existing sources, to create a new derivative work. If you are creating a “mash-up” or derivative work you still need to license the underlying images or illustrations that will be used to create the final project. ]

unknowncarver
05-06-2012, 10:13 AM
In case anyone does not know the unknown comic here is a video.


http://youtu.be/Xj3Q9l9Ivng

lynnfrwd
05-06-2012, 10:37 AM
Thanks, but I don't need a video to know who this is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

bjbethke
05-06-2012, 11:03 AM
BJ, thanks for the pdf. It was good information. This part seems especially to apply.

[ What is a photo ‘mash-up’ or derivative work?
A mashup or mash-up is any Digital media content containing any or all of text, graphics, audio, video and animation drawn from pre-existing sources, to create a new derivative work. If you are creating a “mash-up” or derivative work you still need to license the underlying images or illustrations that will be used to create the final project. ]


Yes, that is what you have when you make a CW MPC file. Did you know the original owner has his or her CW code embedded in that file? Others can use it but if it is not your CW code you can't make a PTN file of it to save and resell. That is why I started to only Post the MPC file for others to use.

I can tell when others repost a PTN that I made, when I open that file it opens in my Pattern Editor program and not the Designer program.

Back in 2007 some of the CW Designer programs did not have that protection.

Thank You - LHR for your great programs. BJB

ladjr
05-06-2012, 12:36 PM
Yes, that is what you have when you make a CW MPC file. Did you know the original owner has his or her CW code embedded in that file? Others can use it but if it is not your CW code you can't make a PTN file of it to save and resell. That is why I started to only Post the MPC file for others to use.

I can tell when others repost a PTN that I made, when I open that file it opens in my Pattern Editor program and not the Designer program.

Back in 2007 some of the CW Designer programs did not have that protection.

Thank You - LHR for your great programs. BJB

That is cool. It is like "CSI" can anyone read those codes or do you have to have a special program. Wait don't tell me I don't want to know.

But it is cool.

Leo

eelamb
05-06-2012, 01:51 PM
BJB you are right but the code is embedded in the PTN file. Only the creator of the PTN can edit the PTN file.

Ike
05-07-2012, 03:37 PM
Here is a great example of the WRONG thing to do to help with confusion...this seller SFSALES2000 takes patterns from memebers of the Carvewirght, who posted for FREE, and then re-sales. The horse in the pic I circled was mine from a while back..too funny..but this is wrong. State Seals and such I would check with the state...I am sure they can help clear it up for you.

The funny thing John is the lousy one next to it I made!

Ike
05-07-2012, 03:45 PM
In case anyone does not know the unknown comic here is a video.


http://youtu.be/Xj3Q9l9Ivng

From the Gong Show!

jpaluck
05-07-2012, 05:17 PM
Ike

Cool you got patterns on e-bay also..lol nice

unknowncarver
05-07-2012, 05:26 PM
Ike

Cool you got patterns on e-bay also..lol nice

When I got them I did not even know this forum existed.

Ike
05-07-2012, 08:22 PM
Ike

Cool you got patterns on e-bay also..lol nice

Yep and a couple more to boot!

dcalvin4
05-07-2012, 08:30 PM
did anyone know that the RIDGID power tool company has this a lock on pwr tool colors this is written on the box my tool came in '' The orange color used on this product and the combination of orange and grey are trademarks for RIDGID brand power tools ''
what the hello is going on here i mean i dont have a degree of anykind but i think this statement is so openended that i stinks i think 2 lawyers could fight this out till kingdum come and ya know what the guy with the most money wins so nobody paint anything orange ang grey or your arse maybe sitting in the slammer waiting bail so i am off to warsh the orange hi lights out of my grey 63 year old hair before the feds show up surround my house in the middle of the night and take me down oh i cant warsh my hair in the sink as the chemicals from the dye may pollute thi sewer and the has mat team will get me this whole stinks i think ill get a trade mark on the color green so everytime anyone plants gras they have to pay me bigtime dont pay any attension to the man behind the screen well our ohio congrassman JIM TRAFFICANT got so fed up with the rheteric that his final words after his statements in congress was beam me up Scotty
and i say stop the merrygo round and let get the hello off
dont mind me me i get roudy from time to time
hope you all laugh as much i did writing this
denny

fwharris
05-07-2012, 08:49 PM
did anyone know that the RIDGID power tool company has this a lock on pwr tool colors this is written on the box my tool came in '' The orange color used on this product and the combination of orange and grey are trademarks for RIDGID brand power tools ''
what the hello is going on here i mean i dont have a degree of anykind but i think this statement is so openended that i stinks i think 2 lawyers could fight this out till kingdum come and ya know what the guy with the most money wins so nobody paint anything orange ang grey or your arse maybe sitting in the slammer waiting bail so i am off to warsh the orange hi lights out of my grey 63 year old hair before the feds show up surround my house in the middle of the night and take me down oh i cant warsh my hair in the sink as the chemicals from the dye may pollute thi sewer and the has mat team will get me this whole stinks i think ill get a trade mark on the color green so everytime anyone plants gras they have to pay me bigtime dont pay any attension to the man behind the screen well our ohio congrassman JIM TRAFFICANT got so fed up with the rheteric that his final words after his statements in congress was beam me up Scotty
and i say stop the merrygo round and let get the hello off
dont mind me me i get roudy from time to time
hope you all laugh as much i did writing this
denny

Understand completely! And yes I did :D

bjbethke
05-07-2012, 08:57 PM
BJB you are right but the code is embedded in the PTN file. Only the creator of the PTN can edit the PTN file.

Very true-very true I thnk that's great.

eelamb
05-07-2012, 09:23 PM
BJB I too think it is great.