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jpaluck
04-29-2012, 11:29 PM
This things works awsome. This guy has a video up and I looked at it quite a few times. Last night I said what the heck its only $38.00...I have no problem paying for stuff if it's good. There is no istant download so you have to wait for the link to be emailed to you. The download is on a site that is for free downloads...I figured it would have been self hosted..I thought ok here we go 38 bucks out the window.

I am in awe of how well this does creating a a depth map from a full 3d model. The issue normally you can not get a good depth map from a full 3d model due to the zdepth..always loses detail sharp drop off etc...this eliminates and works dead perfect. You can put your model in any angle and it renders perfect. I have attached a couple quick tries with some model that will not make good depthmaps in zbrush or max. These came out really good. They have some stepping but that is easily fixed in zbrush or sculptris with a little smoothing.

I find modeling in 3d is sometimes alot easier than 2.5d and faster. This will bridge the gap to get a good releif out of a full model. Gonna try a car next..they never come out right from a model..I am sure it will work well.

Best part the software is free..blender..and add sculptis for some minor smoothing and you are good to go. They also use photoshop at the end a little..I am sure PS could be replaced with gimp for it is minor work. Everything you need is in the e-mail..ie blender the patch and the videos..no talking on the vids but it was easy enough to follow along with.

I also put a screenshot of what the node editing looks like in blender..it looks complicated but it's really not..just follow along with the video.

I highly recommend this video for anyone wanting to create patterns..even if you dont know how to model there are a ton of free ones out there...the modonna and mickey below were free on a site i found a while back.

here is the link to the guy's site

http://buy.3drelief.net/

jpaluck
04-30-2012, 12:44 PM
Whats really cool about this you put the model on any angle and get a good relief. This almost never works in most methods of getting a heightmap from a model.

mtylerfl
04-30-2012, 02:01 PM
That is a great tool, John. Thank you for the heads-up!

A few years ago, I followed a link to a website where the guy was developing a tool exactly like this (was a link from the ArtCAM Forum where he was posting). He was showing and explaining the process of retaining a superb amount of detail when converting from a true full-3D model to a relief model. Everyone was very excited about it, but he totally disappeared. I have a feeling this may be the same fellow finally re-appearing! I will definitely be buying this!

jpaluck
04-30-2012, 02:38 PM
I know the guy your talking about. I actually exchanged several e-mails with him. He was using 3dsmax and a add on he was developing. This basically the same thing but with Blender. It is shocking how it comes out. The model can be put into any position and boom perfect. There is stepping. One of the videos show how to modify the code in the plug-in...have to try that next. But the stepping is easly smoothed in zbrush. You should definitly pick this videos up...in the video he has instrructions after the depthmap is created for aspire, artcam and zbrush. He and I differ on how to use in zbrush but both methods work fine. Dont have aspire nor artcam so no clue on that part.

He is suppose to be coming out with more vids on how to achieve a good relief from a photo...should be interesting. Like I said I was shocked how good this works..and FREE SOFTWARE....when the download didnt come right after paying I raised aand eyebrow..then the free download site, which took forever to DL..I was like ut oh..waste of 38 bucks..LOL Boy was I wrong

mtylerfl
04-30-2012, 02:45 PM
My only hesitation was that it is just for Blender - yeh, like I need another learning curve to go through!:) However, in this case I think it may be worth it. (Over the years, I've downloaded/installed various versions of Blender...hated the GUI but I know it has been much improved since the early days.)

So you know the guy I was referring to? I sure would like to get ahold of him. Was hoping he would develop a plug-in that works directly in ArtCAM or Aspire!

bergerud
04-30-2012, 02:54 PM
Whats really cool about this you put the model on any angle and get a good relief. This almost never works in most methods of getting a heightmap from a model.

I wonder just what the software is doing. You should try a few basic geometric shapes to see what happens. A sphere or a cone for example. Is there some z scaling going on? How does the software determine the back plane position? Remember the example of the cartoon character with the big feet which stuck out too far into the foreground. The feet had to be scaled back so as not to over influence the z scaling. Are you saying that the patch somehow takes care of such problems?

jpaluck
04-30-2012, 03:02 PM
Bergerud,

Yes some how the patch takes care of the z scaling. There are quite a few nodes you drag out to acheive this affect besides the bas relief node...see my screen shot. But the videos make it fairly simple to follow. With the video files he also includes a couple diffrent version of blender with the patch installed..basicall all ready to go. Once the nodes are set up it is as simple and has replacing models and posing them.

bergerud
04-30-2012, 03:09 PM
Sounds really good, I will have to check it out. Thanks John.

mtylerfl
04-30-2012, 03:14 PM
I wonder just what the software is doing. You should try a few basic geometric shapes to see what happens. A sphere or a cone for example. Is there some z scaling going on? How does the software determine the back plane position? Remember the example of the cartoon character with the big feet which stuck out too far into the foreground. The feet had to be scaled back so as not to over influence the z scaling. Are you saying that the patch somehow takes care of such problems?

The "mystery" fellow John and I know about, did give an explanation of a sort, way back when, of how he retains the details in Z. I'll be darned if I can recall what he said - at the time, he was comparing how superior his method was compared to ArtCAM's "Keep Detail" feature. I briefly searched the ArtCAM Forum to see if I could find his posts, but did not yield any result. I may try again later...

John, if you still have his email address, perhaps you could share it with me via PM, but only IF you feel comfortable with that, of course.

jpaluck
04-30-2012, 03:54 PM
MT,

The guys name is dennis sent you his email. I am addicted to this..lol. I have a file of a bunch of 3d models I tried to make patterns out back when I was learning modeling...no go...could do a depthmap no problem but it always lost detail. I am playing with all the models now. I put a screen shot kinda of explaining the issue and how this fixes it..not the specifics of fixing just example.

jpaluck
04-30-2012, 05:03 PM
Ok `last post for a bit on this..lol..I am thouroly addicted to this. Everything I throw at it comes out very nice. Usually there is no way at all to get a good releif out of statue like this in full 3d due to the depth. Below are he results. The cool part with this method you dont have to know a thing about modeling. Just find free models on the net and follow the videos. Easiest methos I have seen for creating nice 2.5d models

liquidguitars
04-30-2012, 07:05 PM
This almost never works in most methods of getting a height map from a model.


Well don't tell LG this :) as a image map and the right camera view makes this a simple job in Lightwave, what we did before the STL plug-in, any angle and 32 bit PNG high quality into Designer, having said this I take a look see as this software seems to flatten the shape a little to the board.


Here is a clasic violin top image made from a 32 bit PNG rendered in Lightwave and loaded into designer back 2008." I think my first one was in 2006"

For my money I would get LHR's STL importer and save the hassle of rendering the mesh.

52807

jpaluck
04-30-2012, 07:40 PM
LG might ebe a simple job for you..LOL but it wasnt for me. I could never figure it out prior to trying this plug in. Somehow I figured you knew how to do this.

Here are a couple, again done from full 3d statue. I cant take any credit for these models as they are free online...I just put them thru blender bas relief node

liquidguitars
04-30-2012, 08:09 PM
Well it had to be simple if i did it... :)


here i still see the eage from the conversion... if i used the STL program I could just cut it off a little.

52808

jpaluck
04-30-2012, 08:25 PM
Yeah it produces and edge sometimes....when I am placing the depthmap on a plane in zbrush I waas using 100% stregnth..started lowering to like 50-60 was losing big edge

jpaluck
04-30-2012, 08:33 PM
LG

Here is the Screenshot of blender..it actually really fast...once the nodes are set you just the file then swap models out..this probably make more sense to you than to me..I get it to an extent

eelamb
04-30-2012, 10:01 PM
John everything you posted looks great. I too had not figured out how to do the bas relief using any of the software I have, and it come out looking like what you have shown. I will be looking into the blender and node editing to make 2.5d from some of my 3d models. Edges can still be cut off using stl importer once the bas relief has been created.

liquidguitars
04-30-2012, 11:17 PM
It looks like the Hulk object and scene had some depth scaling that looks realy good..

lawrence
04-30-2012, 11:19 PM
I just bought it and am dl'ing it... I'll throw in my 2 cents at some point too.

Lawrence

jpaluck
04-30-2012, 11:36 PM
I emailed the Guy LG about the depth/edge on the back waiting to hear back..no edge on the hulk...he emailed in regards to the stepping on how to fix it...changed some code in the plug in...runs a little slower and I am using I990 extreme...I think it would really bog down a quad

jpaluck
05-01-2012, 12:03 PM
Here is the wikipedia on the bas relief http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/File:Development-Compositing_Nodes-Bas-relief-node-tree.jpg

fwharris
05-01-2012, 12:10 PM
Here is the wikipedia on the bas relief http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/File:Development-Compositing_Nodes-Bas-relief-node-tree.jpg

John,

not seeing anything

CNC Carver
05-01-2012, 12:19 PM
Try this.
http://wiki.blender.org/

jpaluck
05-01-2012, 12:27 PM
weird..I go to it by following links on this page http://www.blendernation.com/2009/06/30/bas-relief-node-in-blender/

bergerud
05-01-2012, 02:25 PM
I have read the paper "Digital Bas-Relief from 3D Scenes" from which this process is taken. It is mathematical involving calculus. Instead of using the points of the 3d surface and changing their heights, the process uses the slopes (gradient field) of the surface. Maybe I can explain basically what I read that they do.

First, the gradient field:

Imagine a simple 3d bump like a hill. Think of a 2d contour map of the hill. It is a family of curves with each one representing where the surface has a certain height. Each contour curve has a height number attached to it. The perpendicular distance (in 2d now) between the curves on the contour map indicates the slope of the surface. Places where contours are close together means the surface is steep and places where the contours are far apart means the surface is flatter. Now imagine standing on the surface and looking at your contour map. If you wanted to climb up the hill the fastest, the direction to take would be the direction which takes you straight to the next contour line. At each point on the surface, this unique direction is called the gradient direction. It is the direction which gets you up the hill the fastest. Now at each point on the map, draw an arrow (vector) which points in this fastest direction. Make the length of the arrow equal to the rate at which the height in that direction increases (the steepest slope) and you have what is called the gradient vector field. It is this gradient vector field that he process uses.

The process keeps all of the gradient field directions the same and changes only the lengths. That is, the slopes of the surface are decreased but those steepest directions are not changed. (That field of steepest directions is really the esthetic geometry of the hill.) The slopes are now decreased using a logarithm function (sorry for any flash backs!). The logarithm is used because it reduces the larger slopes more than the smaller slopes. The result is the vector field of a new, lower profile hill. The new hill has to now be recovered from the new vector field data. This is a process called integration. After integration, we have a new hill with the same basic shape but is not as steep or high.

The process, of course, involves may other details and complications. What I have described is just the very basic idea. The paper, if you want to read it is at:

http://gfx.cs.princeton.edu/pubs/Weyrich_2007_DBF/relief.pdf

chebytrk
05-01-2012, 03:13 PM
Sounds similar to the way we read military maps when we were plotting a radio shot for our LOS (Line of Site) radio antennas. That was time consuming because after drawing a straight line on a map (about a 50mi distance) and then having to trace the line path and check the contours to see if the shot was going to hit hills or a mountain. If so, we had to set up a relay site and "dog leg" the radio shot. Not to mention tall trees and also making sure there was a road to drive our Radio Rigs and Generators to the spot. The stories I could tell ... just to get commo in. Of course now it's all done by computer and Satellite I'm sure.


I have read the paper "Digital Bas-Relief from 3D Scenes" from which this process is taken. It is mathematical involving calculus. Instead of using the points of the 3d surface and changing their heights, the process uses the slopes (gradient field) of the surface. Maybe I can explain basically what I read that they do.

First, the gradient field:

Imagine a simple 3d bump like a hill. Think of a 2d contour map of the hill. It is a family of curves with each one representing where the surface has a certain height. Each contour curve has a height number attached to it. The perpendicular distance (in 2d now) between the curves on the contour map indicates the slope of the surface. Places where contours are close together means the surface is steep and places where the contours are far apart means the surface is flatter. Now imagine standing on the surface and looking at your contour map. If you wanted to climb up the hill the fastest, the direction to take would be the direction which takes you straight to the next contour line. At each point on the surface, this unique direction is called the gradient direction. It is the direction which gets you up the hill the fastest. Now at each point on the map, draw an arrow (vector) which points in this fastest direction. Make the length of the arrow equal to the rate at which the height in that direction increases (the steepest slope) and you have what is called the gradient vector field. It is this gradient vector field that he process uses.

The process keeps all of the gradient field directions the same and changes only the lengths. That is, the slopes of the surface are decreased but those steepest directions are not changed. (That field of steepest directions is really the esthetic geometry of the hill.) The slopes are now decreased using a logarithm function (sorry for any flash backs!). The logarithm is used because it reduces the larger slopes more than the smaller slopes. The result is the vector field of a new, lower profile hill. The new hill has to now be recovered from the new vector field data. This is a process called integration. After integration, we have a new hill with the same basic shape but is not as steep or high.

The process, of course, involves may other details and complications. What I have described is just the very basic idea. The paper, if you want to read it is at:

http://gfx.cs.princeton.edu/pubs/Weyrich_2007_DBF/relief.pdf

jpaluck
05-01-2012, 05:21 PM
Here are some more patterns while playing around with the settings and get used to blender and the plug in. These are all free models off the net and not mine so please dont re-sell. The images have some stepping so will need to be cleaned

jpaluck
05-01-2012, 10:52 PM
Lawrence I know you did this one before..I stumbled on the same and couldnt resist putting it thru bas relief plug and sculpting a bit in zbrush...fun to sculpt this or touch up

jpaluck
05-01-2012, 11:22 PM
too addicted to this..I am now starting to figure out the best poses to eliminate edges as much as you can

easybuilt
05-01-2012, 11:24 PM
Your doing a great job on these John. Thanks for sharing!!

fwharris
05-02-2012, 12:24 AM
too addicted to this..I am now starting to figure out the best poses to eliminate edges as much as you can

Crown time John! :)

jpaluck
05-02-2012, 04:03 PM
Floyd - It's always Crown Time

Here is another one. Have any of you guys ever tried some of the low cost digital scanning systems out there? Curious of the results like David 3D scanner..ie mesh resolution. I have never had a desire to play with a scanner but with this patch it could be a blast.

jpaluck
05-03-2012, 12:15 AM
Ok here are few more...I love this thing..it has given the best results for bas releif render. You can put the model on any agle in x y z and get a good pattern. Looking into a 3d scanner..too fun.

Chay
05-03-2012, 06:31 AM
This looks so interesting. quality looks great
Is there any problems doing the front and back of a model
Chay

jpaluck
05-03-2012, 12:31 PM
Chay,

You can do any part of the model ..front back side whatever...and get greaat results

jpaluck
05-04-2012, 01:01 PM
Here are a couple screens shots of renders. This is too fun. Starting play with the settings etc. Also tried to add multiple models with "exteme" depth differences..doesnt works so well. The models have to be fairly close together in the z...not touching but close. This is a very fast method...least for me.

dbfletcher
05-04-2012, 01:24 PM
John,

You are going to force me to reload blender aren't you? It has been years since I last played with it. Your results certainly make it seem worthwhile however. Thanks for sharing your progress.

ladjr
05-04-2012, 01:37 PM
Do you need any other programs or is it just bender


Leo

jpaluck
05-04-2012, 02:58 PM
Doug - It's worth downloading..very fun..just really neat to get a render of releif no matter what the angle of the model and keep detail.

Leo - you can use just blender. The pics below are me playing with zbrush and modo..however you dont really need to learn modeling to use this plug. You just need to be able to find free models which there are a ton of them out there. If you dig down to the begining of this thread there is a guy selling how to videos for 38 bucks.

Chay
05-04-2012, 04:08 PM
Any truly simple blender tutorials for dummies out there you can show the links to?

jpaluck
05-04-2012, 04:18 PM
Chay,

I havent opened Blender in a couple years prior to using it now..even when I did prior I never got much accomplished..lol. Google blender and there will be a ton of info that comes up

Chay
05-04-2012, 04:20 PM
Thanks I found them http://www.blender.org/education-help/tutorials/

jpaluck
05-04-2012, 05:59 PM
Ok went a little more into blender...Here is what I have figured out. You can make really nice patterns from free models online without one bit of modeling. The only things you will have to learn is how to open the program, import export and as hard as it get moving your model into the camera view like the screenshot below. After the height map is rendered blender as a really neat feature that will make geometry from a heightmap image...simply import "images as plane" - the height map you just created. Then export out as an obj and if you want and bring your model into sculptris and smooth out the rough areas..add some detail whatever you like...then export bring back into blender and export out as an stl and then into designer or simply export a heightmap out of sculptris and into designer if you dont have the stl importer.

Bottom line Blender and Sculptris are all you need to make awsome 2.5d patterns with no modeling...lol till you run out of finding free ones and take the plunge to learn a little more. Dont ask about the model I have in the screenshots...was playing around testing depth etc..quick weird head thing I made. Both programs are completely free.

eelamb
05-04-2012, 06:54 PM
John I really want to get in to this, but no time just yet. Everything you showed and what I have seen so far looks like it will be easy, with the hardest part getting to know a little of Blenders UI.

unknowncarver
05-04-2012, 06:58 PM
So I have a question if you get these models free on the internet then use this software to make patterns, how many of you will be selling the patterns and is this copywright infringement? I have read the posts about sellers and it seems many are angry with some sellers but seems everyone is getting free pictures off the net and making patterns and selling them even state logos etc. Even LHR staff is encouraging people to sell state logos if they are not copywrighted. As a newbie to this forum I am confused about all of this.

jpaluck
05-04-2012, 07:26 PM
Your gonna Love it Eddie.

I wouldnt sell any the patterns I found on line..thats pretty cheesey..just because I converted them to a carving patterns means nothing..I'm not the creator. Some below are free some are ones I made. BUT if I were to go thru this forum and download the free patterns posted and re-sold them on bay thats a thief. Nothing confusing about that. Kinda of dead subject

fwharris
05-04-2012, 07:28 PM
So I have a question if you get these models free on the internet then use this software to make patterns, how many of you will be selling the patterns and is this copywright infringement? I have read the posts about sellers and it seems many are angry with some sellers but seems everyone is getting free pictures off the net and making patterns and selling them even state logos etc. Even LHR staff is encouraging people to sell state logos if they are not copywrighted. As a newbie to this forum I am confused about all of this.

Yes confused, totally,

These are not being sold!!!

unknowncarver
05-04-2012, 07:33 PM
ok, I guess this is a touchy subject but dont mean to offend anyone. I saw on another post where state seals are going to be sold and another post where people were saying the patterns being sold on here are from scans and web pictures and so I thought I would ask. Sorry if I offended anyone. Just trying to fiqure this out.

eelamb
05-04-2012, 10:24 PM
Unknowncarver, The first state pattern I made of Texas, I was not going to sell it, because I thought it was copyrighted. A forum member did the search and it was not copyrighted, so YES I am selling it. I made it for the fun of it, planning on deleting it. I never posted the pattern just images. Therefore even if it was copyrighted I had done no harm by making it then deleting it. Since it as well as the Missouri State seal copyright has run out, making and selling the pattern is not an infringement. More than half of the patterns I make are originals, where I created the the pattern using vectors, such as the wheel clock, ships wheel, 10" saw blade, Belt, tire clock, and so on. Patterns posted here to be shared may or may not be originals, only the creator knows for sure. All patterns I make for sale, using someone's image I check the copyright FIRST.

Not all state seals are copyrighted, many have changed over the years and are still copyrighted.

eromran
05-05-2012, 09:12 AM
John,
I have been using the Nextengine 3d scanner for a while now it really works great i think. Would be perfect and fun with this. If you do get one be sure to get the HD version it is a little more but worth it. Also there is usually one on ebay being sold and it comes from nextengine but its a little cheaper same warranty There is hardly no learning curve maybe 1or 2 days probably not that tho

TerryT
05-05-2012, 04:40 PM
So I have a question if you get these models free on the internet then use this software to make patterns, how many of you will be selling the patterns and is this copywright infringement? I have read the posts about sellers and it seems many are angry with some sellers but seems everyone is getting free pictures off the net and making patterns and selling them even state logos etc. Even LHR staff is encouraging people to sell state logos if they are not copywrighted. As a newbie to this forum I am confused about all of this.

Are you really asking for legal advice on a woodworking forum?

TerryT
05-05-2012, 05:10 PM
Thanks for the call Dale. Hope the info helped.

jpaluck
05-05-2012, 07:45 PM
Eromran,

Thats the one I am eyeing up. How good is the resolution? How long is the scanning process?..small things come out ok?

eromran
05-05-2012, 08:19 PM
All your questions is the only learning curve there is.What i mean is you can scan something in right away and it will be pretty good but by using the same scan you can change a lot of things that will affect the scan time for example if you do a 360 scan you can pick 4-16 scans or you can do a bracket scan which is 3 scans or a single scan you can change the Resolution also. Silver and pouter does not scan well unless you put talc on it. Something interesting was i was trying to scan a model of a stealth in and it was terrible because of the angles if i would have messed with it longer it would have worked out. Just as you know when you take stl's if their the wrong size when you put them in designer or make a bas relief you loose a lot of detail but i think the software and way you are doing it would really open up what scans would work. fill free to email me if talking is easier i'm a bad typer. One more thing when i bought my scanner they had a 30 day money back guarantee and i did not think for a minute of returning it it. As far as small things it has a macro setting on it. enarmore@hotmail.com

unknowncarver
05-05-2012, 08:21 PM
Are you really asking for legal advice on a woodworking forum?

I am not the only one discussing these issues on this forum. But, yes I guess I am. LOL.

jpaluck
05-05-2012, 09:27 PM
Unknown carver

This thread is about Blender...why not create your own thread to help with your confusion of patterns other make...not even sure why you would be confused if someone else makes something...but IMO to download free patterns on this forum and re-sale on e-bay pretty cheesey...those sellers must be super hard up for a dollar..LOL

unknowncarver
05-05-2012, 09:30 PM
I agree about ebay sellers, sorry to hijack this post, it was not intended. Like Rosanna Rosanna Dana, Never mind.

TerryT
05-05-2012, 10:58 PM
After an eternity as a professional I can say without any doubt, the best advice you will ever get is......
Do not seek or offer legal advice on a wood working forum.

If you need legal advice ( I'm guessing you do) contact an attorney. Especially a copywright attorney.

ladjr
05-06-2012, 01:09 AM
Doug - It's worth downloading..very fun..just really neat to get a render of releif no matter what the angle of the model and keep detail.

Leo - you can use just blender. The pics below are me playing with zbrush and modo..however you dont really need to learn modeling to use this plug. You just need to be able to find free models which there are a ton of them out there. If you dig down to the begining of this thread there is a guy selling how to videos for 38 bucks.

Thanks for the Information

Leo

jpaluck
05-07-2012, 10:55 PM
Here is another one I did of a plate of fruit full 3d...has anyone else tried this yet?

liquidguitars
05-08-2012, 12:01 AM
Little OT but speaking of 3d... today i needed to build a roof cricket for a contractor friend so i used Lightwave to build it. The shape looked like a kite.. made the nested webs like a ship out of plywood but marked the webs and rails on the carvewright using the 1/16" carving on a outline path going .1" deep" just to layout", the final was 16' and fit like a glove. I think if i did freehand i be lost... the guys thought i was building a wing off the ME109 or H flying wing all and all a fun day for sure.

53044

Designer top, Lightwave 3D bot.

53043

eelamb
05-08-2012, 06:52 AM
John, yes I have tried it, and it looked great. Still need to learn blender UI to work with the camera, and model. Did the truck I made sometime back, but did not get what I wanted in the camera view. Yet it worked great.

jpaluck
05-09-2012, 12:30 AM
This patch has been around since 09...wish I knew about it sooner. I love to be able model in full 3d and not worry about depth contraints while modeling...so much easier. Here one I am working on...have more sculpting to do.

TerryT
05-09-2012, 09:09 AM
That is very impressive, John. You must have a lot of hours into that one.

jpaluck
05-09-2012, 10:48 AM
Actually Terry not many hours at all...thats what I like about this patch. Things are so much faster in full 3d and easier versus modeling to a plane and being concerned with depth constraint. Now I can yank out a sphere of a cylinder or cube and shape away then sculpt in zbrush. Being able to put the model on any angle rotation is the key to bas relief plug.

I am thinking of making some videos showing how to go from 3d model to ptn all with free software - blender and sculptris - with zero modeling experience. I would sell them for 45ish...not sure if there would be enough interest, but would be a fun project. When I say no modeling experience you really dont need any BUT you are limited to free models you find on the net - which there are a ton.

jpaluck
05-09-2012, 01:26 PM
Little more work done it.."borrowed" the guns from Eddie Lamb..being lazy..so it's now a joint pattern. I cant remember where I saw this image..guns and roses maybe lynrd skynrd..cant remember and started going out of my head..started with a tophat turned to a cowboy hat..Jason said it looked like clint so going with the western thing

jpaluck
05-09-2012, 04:46 PM
finished it

easybuilt
05-09-2012, 05:03 PM
That came out really nice John.
Is that software hard to learn or just practice?

ladjr
05-09-2012, 06:02 PM
That is great detail. have you carved it yet. Good Job.

Leo

jpaluck
05-09-2012, 07:04 PM
Tom making the pattern if you have a 3d model is really easy....what is hard or takes practice is learning to make the models

Leo nope havent carved it but it will carve well..looks good in designer

Thanks guys

jpaluck
05-09-2012, 09:32 PM
Here are 3 more..santa a bit early but it was a free model I found...left foot had rip in mesh..so need you need to fix in image or with pattern editor

eelamb
05-09-2012, 10:06 PM
John the skull and guns came out great, also like the three you posted. I had made a pattern out of that santa, and had seen it here before too. Back when I did it, I had to flatten it somewhat to get a good pattern out of the 3D. bas relief is so much better.

ladjr
05-09-2012, 10:10 PM
I have down loaded Blender but have had no luck getting a file to load. What kind of files do you start with.

Leo

easybuilt
05-09-2012, 10:28 PM
This would be a awesome demo/training at the conference.

eelamb
05-10-2012, 06:24 AM
Leo one file type would be an OBJ. Blender also loads other types. But you would do an import.

jpaluck
05-10-2012, 08:07 AM
Leo

Obj,3ds are very common 3d file types that you can load into blender. I attached a screen shot to show the rest of them stl is another. I haven't looked but I would bet there are more file type loaders as plug ins avaiable on the Blender site. obj 3ds and stl are the main types.

eelamb
05-10-2012, 12:20 PM
For those wishing to use free 3d models, there are 900 pages with 24, 3d models per page here http://archive3d.net/?page=1
Any of them will work using the bas relief method, and most are useless in converting to 2.5d without bas relief.

CNC Carver
05-10-2012, 12:34 PM
Thanks for the link to 3D models.

jpaluck
05-15-2012, 04:10 PM
God I love being able to model in full 3d...this opens up so much more you can do and way faster. I have been toying with animation a bit, and have a LONG way to go. I am learning how to rig models just to pose...been using zbrush for it.

eelamb
05-15-2012, 04:47 PM
John that looks great, love the details.

jpaluck
05-15-2012, 04:52 PM
Thanks Eddie

Here is another one of a model I made a long time agao in Moi..Flyfishing reel

fwharris
05-15-2012, 06:20 PM
I sure like it when you are having fun John! Looks great!

jpaluck
05-16-2012, 12:15 AM
another one..too fun

easybuilt
05-16-2012, 12:31 AM
Very nice John!!

jpaluck
05-24-2012, 12:56 AM
I am starting to learn how to faces, they are very hard, and get even harder if only workn off one photo for reference. Ideally, you would a front and a side view to model off....started with a picture of jesus..LOL did exactly turn out the way I planned so converted the model to a tree spirit..or a portrait or floyd...hmm old hippie eh floyd..lol

fwharris
05-24-2012, 09:40 AM
I am starting to learn how to faces, they are very hard, and get even harder if only workn off one photo for reference. Ideally, you would a front and a side view to model off....started with a picture of jesus..LOL did exactly turn out the way I planned so converted the model to a tree spirit..or a portrait or floyd...hmm old hippie eh floyd..lol

Oh you are a funny guy John!!!

eelamb
05-24-2012, 10:03 AM
I was waiting to see Floyd s comment. Nice work John.

fwharris
05-24-2012, 10:08 AM
I was waiting to see Floyd s comment. Nice work John.

Well I did keep it P C!

jpaluck
05-25-2012, 08:27 PM
Jason gets the weirdest pattern request of all...Cant wait to seee the sign you make with this one..lol

fwharris
05-25-2012, 09:02 PM
Jason gets the weirdest pattern request of all...Cant wait to seee the sign you make with this one..lol

The BIG *** BASS!! lol love it!!!

LittleRedWoodshop
05-25-2012, 09:28 PM
We have all had that fish that got away ... and we all know just how big it was. Floyd knows .... lol.

ladjr
06-01-2012, 09:32 PM
After reading all this I have been trying to use Blender. I haven't even been able to open a file. Help Help can someone help me open a jpg in blender.

Leo

jpaluck
06-01-2012, 10:12 PM
Leo

Here is a good tutorial on how to bring in images into blender and make a releif out of it. I am thinking of maybe doing a webinar on how to do it..bas releif plug ..if there is enough interest

http://johnflower.org/article/tutorial-make-mountains-blender-25-height-maps

unknowncarver
06-01-2012, 10:32 PM
A webinar would be great and appreciated.

ladjr
06-01-2012, 11:46 PM
Leo

Here is a good tutorial on how to bring in images into blender and make a releif out of it. I am thinking of maybe doing a webinar on how to do it..bas releif plug ..if there is enough interest

http://johnflower.org/article/tutorial-make-mountains-blender-25-height-maps

John

That is a great link

Thanks

Leo

B.K. Dalton
06-02-2012, 09:05 AM
Looks like the patch does not work with Blender 2.6.......:(

jpaluck
06-02-2012, 11:56 AM
I am using 2.62..it works

cestout
06-02-2012, 03:29 PM
I just upgraded to 2.63 and you can export STL files now. I was trying to learn Blender a while ago and I don't think you can open photo files in blender to work on them, you can only put hem in the window to use a a guide to what you are creating. I was going to learn the program again (I am old and forget quickly) and get STL importer, but I now want to see how this new design thing from LHR works out first.
Clint

ladjr
06-02-2012, 03:35 PM
The links below help a lot. I was able to get the picture (jpg) to load, but I haven't figured out how to work it.

Leo

mobident
06-02-2012, 11:02 PM
Typical experience for me in blender. messed around for a couple of hours, still cant figure out how to get the bas relief node installed...

NLAlston
12-06-2013, 07:57 PM
This is an old thread, but I just stumbled across it - and am glad that I did. What can be resulted, from what the OP had found, is the very thing that I wish to be able to do. It's been better than a year and a half since this thread was started, and I don't know if that Node is yet available (I will check into that right after writing this). But, if it is, I'd like to know just what CW software I would need to make it all work for me. I Designer 2, and (from what I have read) I would need the Stl importer module. But would I also have to shell out for the Pattern Editor?

eelamb
12-06-2013, 09:20 PM
Nathan, it is available already. Basically it will take any true 3d object, and make a bas releif from it that can be imported into designer. No extra tools are necessary for designer. For what you make is an image, and designer has that built into it. The bas relief creates two images, one of the gray scale, the other of the outline. You have to layer the two into one for importing. Think of it this way. One image is gray scale, with an outter boundary. The second is a white image inside a black boundary, and you merge the two making one image for importing in designer. Blender is a 3d modeling program, Gimp is needed for the layering of the images or photoshop. I know how to do the layering in photoshop but not gimp. It has been so long since I did the node thing in blender, I do not remember how it was done now. I use my node to create the bas relief using blender. John got me into this part, so he did all the real work on figuring it out.

eelamb
12-06-2013, 09:39 PM
Here is an example of what it can do. First 2 image are the liberty shots from within my 3d program. Next 2 images are what the blender bas relief produces. And the last image is the actual image with layers merged to product something you can import into designer.
I had forgotten to mention, Pattern editor/probe (best to get the probe, PE comes with the probe) may be necessary to fix holes in the model. I believe this one will have a hole in the doorway. I had not fixed it in my 3d program.

Yes anyone can import the second to last image and create a pattern from this image.

NLAlston
12-09-2013, 03:22 PM
Nathan, it is available already. Basically it will take any true 3d object, and make a bas releif from it that can be imported into designer. No extra tools are necessary for designer. For what you make is an image, and designer has that built into it. The bas relief creates two images, one of the gray scale, the other of the outline. You have to layer the two into one for importing. Think of it this way. One image is gray scale, with an outter boundary. The second is a white image inside a black boundary, and you merge the two making one image for importing in designer. Blender is a 3d modeling program, Gimp is needed for the layering of the images or photoshop. I know how to do the layering in photoshop but not gimp. It has been so long since I did the node thing in blender, I do not remember how it was done now. I use my node to create the bas relief using blender. John got me into this part, so he did all the real work on figuring it out.

Eelamb,

I thank you for your very informative reply, in your first answer to me, as well as for the additional information - and images - in your second reply (#103). If I understood you correctly, I already have most of what would required, in Designer 2. I also have Photoshop, which should mean that the only other software I would need would be the (free) Blender program, and the inexpensive Node patch. But what confuses me, a bit, is the following portion of your post:


"Nathan, it is available already. Basically it will take any true 3d object, and make a bas releif from it that can be imported into designer. No extra tools are necessary for designer".

By 'True 3D Object', wouldn't that be to mean the need for a hardware component (such as the scanning probe) by which to obtain that? Please correct me if I am wrong (I really hope that I AM ).


Advanced thanks, and blessings,


Nathan

eelamb
12-09-2013, 04:15 PM
Nathan, what the CW carves is not a 3d model but something between 2d and 3d. Therefore it is know as 2.5d. You as a person is a 3d object. Meaning someone can walk around you and view you from all sides. A 2.5d is an item that you view from one side. Like everything you have carved so far. To carve a 3d you would need something like the rotary jig, and that is limited by the 2" dia.

Look at the statue of liberty images, the first and second image is taken from a 3d object. I could take an image from any side I wanted, all around it, top or bottom.

Designer has the ability to import images. The bas relief creates bas relief images which can be imported into designer. (all versions)
Some images you import may need some cleaning up (polishing the surface) for they are 256 colors of gray, which can product a stair stepping effect on the some surfaces. With this Pattern editor can be used to polish the surface/clean up the pattern once imported. Now as I stated, if you intend to get the pattern editor, get the scanning probe. Pattern editor is about $200, but scanning probe which includes pattern editor is $300. Even if you never plan on using the probe it is still a better buy, for you will find a need for the probe later on.

Here is the link to the bas relief. It includes blender 2.62 and the node patch, as well as the tutorials, and some OBJ (3d files) to work with. All for $38.00.
http://3d-relief.blogspot.com/2012/03/video-tutorials.html

I have to tell you this is not for taking an image and creating a height map of that image. It is for 3d objects, and making 2.5d patterns from those. Thus if you are not making 3d models yourself, then you are limited to the models provided by someone else on the web. Sketchup has a large warehouse of 3d models to work with.

If what you want is to create a pattern from an image without the hassle of learning 3d and 2.5d, then there are other methods of doing this. One is shadermap pro. BJB uses this program. Plus John posted in #93 about using blender to do it. using this tutorial. http://johnflower.org/article/tutori...25-height-maps (http://johnflower.org/article/tutorial-make-mountains-blender-25-height-maps)

Thus the path you take will be determined by what you really want to do. 3d/2.5d can take years to learn, and blender is a poly modeling 3d program.

oscarl48
05-05-2014, 04:04 PM
Just wanted to thank everyone on this thread. Went and got the patch and then the instructions on how to install the patch. I quickly realized you need a computer programming degree to actually modify blender 3d with the patch but then thanks to this wonderful thread realized a modified blender 3d was already included in one the folders (you really have to dig for it). I've started playing with it and so far the results are promising. I still have a long ways to go to really learn how to use blender and the bas relief patch but can't wait to start making sawdust out of my own patterns. I have the basics down. Once I am happy with some of the patterns and have some free time I'll start sharing.

eelamb
05-05-2014, 05:51 PM
Just wanted to thank everyone on this thread. Went and got the patch and then the instructions on how to install the patch. I quickly realized you need a computer programming degree to actually modify blender 3d with the patch but then thanks to this wonderful thread realized a modified blender 3d was already included in one the folders (you really have to dig for it). I've started playing with it and so far the results are promising. I still have a long ways to go to really learn how to use blender and the bas relief patch but can't wait to start making sawdust out of my own patterns. I have the basics down. Once I am happy with some of the patterns and have some free time I'll start sharing.

Glad to see someone else is using the bass relief. John had a great find in this node for blender.

oscarl48
05-05-2014, 06:58 PM
Here is a model I started a little bit back and not finished but if posed in the right angle you don't see the unfinished stuff. It is a nifty little tool. Still not happy with pattern and not final but a good starting point. Hopefully more to follow as I get a better handle on the software. (as well as a final version of this).

eelamb
05-05-2014, 07:35 PM
That is more that a starting point, it looks great so far. I will be watching to see the final version.

oscarl48
05-06-2014, 08:13 PM
eelamb,

Thank you for the tip. I will make sure to use it. I had been using a cheat sheet but your and John's technique will be much faster. I finished a few touch ups on the model and changed the angle on the camera. Much happier. I can put text below the wing. Still have a ways to go but I am at least on the road. Ordered 40 board feet of purple heart so now have to figure out what I am going to do with it.

eelamb
05-06-2014, 10:05 PM
Glad to be of help.

Alan Malmstrom
05-08-2014, 12:13 PM
You can use nodes in blender to create a standard height map pattern. It doesn't work the same as the blender with the bas node. The blender bas node performs a flattening technique that smooth's out images that have vast differences in height.

I've made a video of how you can turn a blender scene into a height map: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAvI-I_6-9Y&feature=youtu.be

What I do is try to flatten out my model as much as possible first. Which is a whole other story. It would be done in edit mode using scale and grab on selected vertices etc.

oscarl48
05-08-2014, 08:37 PM
Alan,

Thank you for the great video. So far all my patterns are coming out a bit flat, though with great detail. Is there a technique to add depth without losing the detail that is fairly simple or is it the pain staking method of playing with the color gradients hoping it comes out better?
Here is my latest attempt with a model I made a while ago. Its supposed to be a UH1 Huey. Still fairly new to 3d modeling so not perfect.

Regards,
O

Alan Malmstrom
05-08-2014, 09:39 PM
If I'm working with a model that has a wide spread of distance like say an airplane, I will actually set the camera at the top view looking straight down and then move and rotate the object to what I want and then simply (or not so simply) go into edit mode and grab vertices of the wings which stick out and put the origin point at a good position and scale from origin in the z direction only. This makes the wing closer to the body in such a way that it will not be noticeable from the camera angle but also gives more pixel height to be used on the other parts of the model. You know what I mean. Basically just compact the parts in together to flatten it in such a way that the camera cannot notice it from its angle. This gives more resolution to each part. And remember that round is really only half round in bas relief.

On simple organic shapes the blender bas node version of blender works great.

oscarl48
05-16-2014, 09:27 PM
Haven't had much time to play around with any of my tools due to work but finally got an hour to create a 3d image and play with the software. Still don't have the system down. But hopefully someone can use this for something. Living in Louisiana I thought a good fleur de lis would be nice.

Edit: 22Feb15: Moving forward almost a year later. I wanted to go to an old pattern and compare it to what I am doing now pattern wise. Also hopefully someone will find this pattern useful in a future project. Thanks to all the great members on here for helping me get a better idea on how to build patterns with all the great advice.

oscarl48
06-21-2014, 09:26 PM
I am currently working on a steam punk inspired mantel clock. I created a cog wheel pattern for it since I could not find anything that was similar. Don't know if anyone would ever need this and it is pretty shallow but I am pleased on how it carved out. I'll upload a picture of the final piece when complete in the furniture thread. Again a big thanks to all the great artists that have shared their patterns on here. I am using them whenever I can. Creating new designs can be a time consuming (though enjoyable endeavor).