So, next carve, another failure

[Geophyrd]

I'm trying, really hard to stay positive. The carve this time went perfectly right till I had to change the bit for the Centerline text. This was the same problem as last time, but instead of a y-axis stall, it was a z-axis stall. As you can tell, it did a nearly perfect carve of the tough parts of the project. The wheels fell off as soon as I changed the bit.

I set up another, small project using centerline. I'll see if it gives me the same problem.


Very frustrated and it doesn't help that CW's tech support works the same hours that I do...

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[Geophyrd]

Ok, so, update. My little test project carved the letters perfectly. Its possible that the squirt of white grease I put on the truck poles may have helped. I'm fast approaching a place where this is not worth it anymore. I wanted to do intricately carved rails and boards for making furniture. It turns out that the furniture will be the less stressful part of the building.

[bergerud]

I assume the v bit touches the bit plate normally. Could the bit be set so high in the chuck that it cannot reach the board? According to your mpc, it must go to a depth of 0.6.

[LittleRedWoodshop]

I am looking at the MPC and the carved region in the center is set at .808 ... makes Bergerud's thought worth investigating.

Also brings up the question of "what is the maximum depth that you can effectively use Conforming Vectors?"

[Geophyrd]

I guess its possible...I put the bit into the collar with the rubber tube between, but wouldn't it have popped the error after it touched the bit plate (which it did perfectly).?

[bergerud]

Put your board back in the machine and put the v bit back in like it was. Now, by hand, see if the z truck hits the end of its travel before it gets to the cutting depth. I have had z stalls before due to the z truck bottoming out.

[AskBud]

Al is correct! The restriction on total depth of carve is currently .800(+).
Your carved oval is set to the maximum, which means the Conforming Vector application has no room to drop.
Try changing your oval depth to about .5 and see what happens. You may also wish to change, or eliminate, the dome within your oval.
AskBud

[bergerud]

The actual depth of the text is not near the 0.8 depth so this, I do not think can be the problem. I will bet that the 0.8 depth restriction does not apply to center line text anyway. It is probably 1.0 like the vector paths.

[bergerud]

Sorry to highjack your thread Geophyrd but in playing with your problem I have come across something strange. I do not know if this is a bug in the conforming vector software or if it is a usable feature. In the attached mpc, I have a square carved to the maximum 0.8 depth with a conforming vector circle cut to 0.990. The total depth reads 1.789. It uploaded to the card without error. (error if > .990) What do you think of this?

Will the machine, assuming the bit can reach, do this?

[Geophyrd]

Sorry to highjack your thread Geophyrd but in playing with your problem I have come across something strange. I do not know if this is a bug in the conforming vector software or if it is a usable feature. In the attached mpc, I have a square carved to the maximum 0.8 depth with a conforming vector circle cut to 0.990. The total depth reads 1.789. It uploaded to the card without error. (error if > .990) What do you think of this?

Will the machine, assuming the bit can reach, do this?

I don't think that's what's the problem...I wasn't going that deep, particularly for the Centerline carve, which was right on the surface, and right around the same depth (more or less) as the bit plate.

[bergerud]

I agree with you. But, now I am not thinking about your your problem. We may be able to cut much deeper. (In fact, it may show that there is nothing wrong at all with your depths.) I am going to give it a try.

[Digitalwoodshop]

This is a great example of why WE must all get in a Habit of watching the bit change and the touching of the Bit Plate... It would have been good to hear....


"I ran this project with conforming Vectors and the machine faulted at the Bit Change for the V90 bit. I saw it touch the Bit Plate correctly so we can rule that out.... Now lets all work with this problem...."

The mention of White Grease and the Z Rails has me worried... Could this all just have been a problem at Bit Change where the V90 bit is installed and now the Z head must go down deeper to touch the bit plate and in this case ran into a wood chip in the Z Belt before it actually touched the Bit Plate and this gave the Computer the Wrong Info as to where the end of the V90 Bit was and that could result in either a fault or a Stall. To Nullify all this above we now have a reply from another user seeing a problem... That takes out of the equitation dirty rails and a dirty belt.... Because remember at Bit Change to keep the tip of the bit from Smashing into the Bit Plate and damaging the BIT Tip and Pushing on the Bit Plate TOO HARD... The Computer is at that moment looking at the Z Motor Current and as soon as it see's a Increase... It KNOWS it has just touched the Bit Plate and backs UP.... BUT the wrench in the works is when you use a Cut Path Bit and a Carving bit and get the machine DIRTY... Then you install a SHORTER V90 bit and the Z has been going up and down with the Carving Bit... But now it needs to go into DEEPER Teratory... Like a UN Plowed Snow Covered Road.... As soon as you go off the Plowed Road into the Un Plowed Road your Car feels the Resistance.... OR in this case... a Lump of Sawdust and pine pitch glue... There is a NO Mans on the Z Rails that can ONLY be Cleaned by placing a solvent soaked cleaning rag between the Z Rail Bearings... THIS area is UN PLOWED SNOW to the Machine..... IF Dirty..... (It's the Paint Fumes....) LOL...


So back to normal troubleshooting.... Look at the Depth Issue and REACH of the Z with a SHORT BIT.... Look at the Rails, Bearings, and Belt Cogs for a LUMP.... WATCH the BIT PLATE HIT.... I am tempted to make a piece of 1/8 inch PLASTIC and place some foil tape on the top and attaching it to the top of the Bit Plate... Use a Battery and a Radio Shack Beeper and wire it so when the bit touches the insulated piece of foil on the top of the bit plate the bit provides a ground and makes the beeper BEEP while the bit is touching the foil... Two Beeps GOOD.... No Beep or 3 Beeps....Bad....


AL

[bergerud]

It works! Actually, my bit was not long enough and I got a z axis stall at the end of the z travel. It was enough to show me it works. The bit was down at 1.45 cutting the circle at the time. This could have profound implications for milling. Milling can be measured down relative to a carved surface as opposed to being measured from the top of the board.

LHR may, of course see this as a bug and fix it! I see it as a feature!

Edit: I guess I should start a new thread for this.

[liquidguitars]

It works! Actually, my bit was not long enough and I got a z axis stall at the end of the z travel. Make sure you have a lot of LOC on the bit :)

[Geophyrd]

Al, I'm not 100% sure what some of what you wrote meant. I did watch the bit plate touches and there were two plus the little bouncing dance it usually does. I also ran the x axis test and it was drawing 1.4 Amps, so there's no strain there. I did grease the rails for the z track and it cut another (much less ambitious project) perfectly. Now I'm running another one which is more ambitious but not the full project I posted originally. For the big one, I'm waiting for glued up boards to dry, so using a 2x4 for the current project.

[liquidguitars]

Oak likes sharp and clean cutters at all times...

[RMarkey]

The software does not take into account the size of the chuck, be it a QC, CT, or Rock. You're on your own if digging very deep into boards. The V-bits are limited in depth to their size.

[ktjwilliams]

Hmmmm !!! Very interesting ...

[cestout]

For the 5/4" top on my "Treasure Chest" in the store, I learned the hard way tat the V bits don't reach too far down. My instructons for that bit say to use a clouple of spacers (one will not do) on the bit to avoid a Z failure (after 1 1/2 hrs of two sided carving).
Clint