Y axis stall

[Darthmaul1964]

The last two times I have done a carving, I get ALMOST done (like 2-3 passes from complete) and I get a Y axis stall and the program stops and aborts. The rest of the carve seemed to go just fine with no errors or problems. Last time I thought it might be a dust problem but the one that I just did (3+ hours) used the cd insert so it was clean as could be.
Any ideas?

[mtylerfl]

One of my machines was giving Y stalls intermittently awhile back. I thought it was probably a siezed bearing, but in this case, no. Turned out the Y belt had stretched and two or three teeth were worn down to nubs. Might want to take a close gander at your Y-belt and bearings to see if either might be the cause.

[AskBud]

The last two times I have done a carving, I get ALMOST done (like 2-3 passes from complete) and I get a Y axis stall and the program stops and aborts. The rest of the carve seemed to go just fine with no errors or problems. Last time I thought it might be a dust problem but the one that I just did (3+ hours) used the cd insert so it was clean as could be.
Any ideas?I presume this was during a raster carve and not another bit function.
Was this just one MPC? What kind of wood was used? Was there a sled or carrier board?
May we see the MPC?
AskBud

[Darthmaul1964]

Bud here are the answers to your questions:
I presume this was during a raster carve and not another bit function.
It was a carve of a eagles head.
Was this just one MPC? Yes it was the same MPC each time. But did not fail at the same spot both times.
What kind of wood was used? It was a 14" x 24" x 3/4" piece of poplar.
Was there a sled or carrier board? No sled or carrier.
May we see the MPC? I can't attach the mpc, too large (1.6 mb) I am attaching two photos of the carve. The one of the letter S shows how it didn't quiet finish the bottom of the S (a little flat), Another is the same board at other end. You can see where the carve seems to have run a while and then shifted to the side 1/4" or so. And the thrid picture is of the result of the first time I tried to cut this design. It failed on the S again but this time it cut the S off, moved down a little and they tried to finish it and that is where the Y axis stall happened.

[Digitalwoodshop]

First question I have is.... The Distance between the last Cut and the end of the board in the X Direction.... Could it just be the board coming out from under the roller (Muffler Side) and TIPPING UP and TRIPPING THE BIT..... IF the measurement is 3.5 inches to the edge of the board then you found the problem....

I am going to only post one question/fix as I believe it will be the most likely cause since it happened in the same place....

IF it happened in other areas... Then a Frozen Y Roller or a BAD Bearing in the Y Gear Box..


AL

[Darthmaul1964]

Al, you might be on to something. It is in fact close enough to end of the board that it comes out from under the front compression roller at the end of the cut. However, it is also out from under the rollers on the start of the carve too. But maybe that is why it has that funky spot on the start of the project.

[AskBud]

Al, you might be on to something. It is in fact close enough to end of the board that it comes out from under the front compression roller at the end of the cut. However, it is also out from under the rollers on the start of the carve too. But maybe that is why it has that funky spot on the start of the project.I presume,from the above, that you did not follow the 7+ inch rule. Is it true that your actual board was not 7+ inches longer than your design board, and you chose to "not stay under the rollers"?
AskBud

[mtylerfl]

Al, you might be on to something. It is in fact close enough to end of the board that it comes out from under the front compression roller at the end of the cut. However, it is also out from under the rollers on the start of the carve too. But maybe that is why it has that funky spot on the start of the project.

As Bud mentioned (suspects?), it sounds like you may be not be following procedures that will keep the board captive under the rollers at all times during project runs. All kind of "bad" can potentially happen if that is the case. Sometimes I forget to ask folks if they are following the basics or not...sort of take it for granted that users are up on all that, but realize that is not always the case.

Please let us know if you need any help in the "basics" or not. Perhaps this is not at all related to your current problem, but we need to eliminate the obvious potential issues.

[Darthmaul1964]

Mike and Bud... you are both right. My error. I don't why the obvious didn't occure to me. I usually hold the the +7" rule but this time I didn't and it bit me. I have gotten away with it a few times but guess not this time. I wonder why if you should NEVER let the board come out from under the rollers, the machine operations allows you to let it.

[AskBud]

Mike and Bud... you are both right. My error. I don't why the obvious didn't occure to me. I usually hold the the +7" rule but this time I didn't and it bit me. I have gotten away with it a few times but guess not this time. I wonder why if you should NEVER let the board come out from under the rollers, the machine operations allows you to let it.The 7 inch Rule is not a matter of "always"!
It can depend upon your design. If you apply nothing within the outer end 3.5+ inches of the design, you do not need to "Stay Under the Rollers". This is because you have "Engineered" the project that way.
If, on the other hand, your design carves in these areas you will need to apply the 7+ inch rule so you assure constant roller contact.
Think of the shop adage "measure twice, cut once".

In your case, since this is a classroom setting, I suggest that you teach the 7 inch rule as a constant, This would mean that most design boards are just a tad longer than the carve area(s). Thus the 7 inch rule applies.
Even if the carve is intended to centered on a larger project board (like a bed head board), you may stay under the rollers and set the machine to "center" your design board on the project board.

If/when you get a prompt about "Scale to Fit", it's time to stop and review your design prior to continuing the project. "Scale to Fit" can/will reduce or enlarge your the project!
AskBud

[mtylerfl]

Hi Bob,

I do recommend staying under the rollers at all times. This makes sure users don't have any unexpected problems. So I would say yes, "always" follow the "7" rule" (or 8" rule, as you prefer). What Bud is talking about is still adhering to that, but it's a matter of how you actually layout your projects (either with or without the extra material in the layout itself - the early Tips & Tricks articles explain this pretty well if you need clarification on that). The important thing is, make your layouts so they will stay under the rollers during the entire project run.

As far as machine functions that require the board to leave the rollers (such as edge routing, cut board to size, and other functions) - I stay away from those. I do know why those features are there, but it was more a matter of marketing decisions to include those than practicality, is my understanding. Better methods of performing those types of functions through the use of other tools in a standard-equipped shop will do the job faster, more efficiently and safer overall. For instance, If I want a decorative routed edge around an entire board, I'm certainly not going to use my CarveWright to do that. A hand router or router table is better suited for the job - at least that's my own personal opinion.

Bud brings up a good point about the Scaling, as well. Don't allow it. There is a Tips & Tricks that explains what to do regarding that as well.

[AskBud]

Here is the link to the Tips & Tricks on Scaling.
AskBud
http://www.carvewright.com/downloads/tips/CarveWrightTips&Tricks_Mar09.pdf

[Darthmaul1964]

Bud,
I understand why the 7" rule is important. The rollers keep the board pressed down tight against the belts and prevents any chance of the end of the board lifting up. But I don't see your point about if the design not having anything carved close to the end of the board. I know that I could have a 20 inch long board with a 5 inch dia. "madalian" carved in the center of it, therefore not having anything within the 3.5" range of the ends of the board. But since the design is being carved in the center there would not be any reason for either end of the board to come out from under a roller during a carve cycle (only during the set up of the project). So in such a case, asking about staying under the rollers is pointless since its not going to come out anyway. Only time the board would come out from under the roller would be if the design was closer than 3.5" to the end of the board. So since you can answer yes to letting the board come out its really only going to if the design is closer to the end than 3.5. So its pointless to ask if you should always answer no.
I don't know if what I am trying to say in print is making any sense. Maybe there is a flaw in my thinking. Just thinking the only time you would ever come out from under the rollers is if there was design that close to the edge so you would answer no. But if you design does ont goe that close to the end, the board would not come out anyway, even if you answered yes. Does that make any sense?

[AskBud]

Bud,
I understand why the 7" rule is important. The rollers keep the board pressed down tight against the belts and prevents any chance of the end of the board lifting up. But I don't see your point about if the design not having anything carved close to the end of the board. I know that I could have a 20 inch long board with a 5 inch dia. "madalian" carved in the center of it, therefore not having anything within the 3.5" range of the ends of the board. But since the design is being carved in the center there would not be any reason for either end of the board to come out from under a roller during a carve cycle (only during the set up of the project). So in such a case, asking about staying under the rollers is pointless since its not going to come out anyway. Only time the board would come out from under the roller would be if the design was closer than 3.5" to the end of the board. So since you can answer yes to letting the board come out its really only going to if the design is closer to the end than 3.5. So its pointless to ask if you should always answer no.
I don't know if what I am trying to say in print is making any sense. Maybe there is a flaw in my thinking. Just thinking the only time you would ever come out from under the rollers is if there was design that close to the edge so you would answer no. But if you design does ont goe that close to the end, the board would not come out anyway, even if you answered yes. Does that make any sense?Bob,
Allow me to state it this way.
The rolled question is dependant upon the length of the design board, not on any of the carving within. Therefore, if your design board is 20 inches long, and your actual board is also 20 inches, a YES to "Stay under Rollers" will cause the machine to look for at least 27 inches. Not finding it, you will get prompts/options asking about Scaling or New Board. If at "Stay Under Rollers" you answer NO, the machine continues with another decision process.

Have you reviewed the Tips & Tricks PDF in post #12, as it gives a very good perspective.
AskBud

[Darthmaul1964]

Ok Bud. The light above my head just went off. I now understand that the 7" extra rule is not based on how close any carved area comes to the end of the design board. It only matters on the size of the design board vs the real board and not how close the actual carved area is to the end of the design board. I didn't get that part. I always knew the 7 inch rule but thought if the carve by design didn't come any closer than 3.5" the required "buffer zone" was already there so the actual board could be the same length as the design board and you would not have a problem.
So, let me ask to be sure I got it. I have a 20 inch long board and carved area is only 5 inches long leaving 7" extra on each end of the vitual board the machine will still see it as a problem?

[Digitalwoodshop]

I cut a bunch of Signs... I usually design the sign with a 2 inch area that goes into a slot in a 4 x 4 and usually try for 2 inches of blank area on each side of the sign letters. I use Place on End and draw a 4 inch block and place it on the right side of designer. I start my lettering to the left of the 4 inch box and I leave my board stock long and cut after the carving of both sides. That keeps 4 inches under the front roller and with a long board it is under a roller too...

I use place on end for 99% of what I do.... WHY measure the board twice to do a center on board.... Place on end measures once.... Saving on wear and tear....

I even TAPE a Scrap Block of 4 inch WOOD on the head of the board too sometimes.... FrugAL.....

In the case of the Octagon Clock, I cut the clock with a 4 inch scrap taped to the end and cut it from a 4 foot board. Cutting it off and moving the tape 4 inches board for the next clock.

[AskBud]

Ok Bud. The light above my head just went off. I now understand that the 7" extra rule is not based on how close any carved area comes to the end of the design board. It only matters on the size of the design board vs the real board and not how close the actual carved area is to the end of the design board. I didn't get that part. I always knew the 7 inch rule but thought if the carve by design didn't come any closer than 3.5" the required "buffer zone" was already there so the actual board could be the same length as the design board and you would not have a problem.
So, let me ask to be sure I got it. I have a 20 inch long board and carved area is only 5 inches long leaving 7" extra on each end of the vitual board the machine will still see it as a problem?It's not a problem! It's a decision path that the machine will follow depending upon your replies. The maching will always ask about Staying Under the Rollers. It's part of the initial measurement process. It can then proceed to follow the proper part of the flow chart.

Again, I point you to the PDF!
AskBud

[Darthmaul1964]

Just finished up my first project since having this problem and removing and cleaning up the z axis truck. I also made sure I followed the 7" rule (and then some) and keep project under the rollers. The result... SUCESS. No errors and the 1 1/2+ hour carve went off without a hitch.