A New C Machine with a problem

[Capt Bruce]

Morning Team,

Well my new C version machine is here, set up and had the chance to run a familiar MPC in a known jig yesterday to test it out. 5 1/2 hour carve in dry poplar two sided. Have not installed a dust collector hood yet so I had to stop about every 1/2 hour and vacuum. I didn't want to immediately modify the clear top hatch.

I'm not a happy camper right now and this may just be my chance to vent/complain before I get down to diagnosing the root cause (probably excessive dust) and see if a cure is at hand before LHR opens again Tuesday morning 1/17/12.

Everything went well for CW registration, unlock and set up. Started running after checking head pressure and all the usual steps. Inserted a known accurate jig and it measured right on the money. Man is there a lot of dust when you carve at optimal cut. This badly needs a Ringneck Blues DC. The C Machine ran quieter than my B model and appeared to be running fine.

In the end most of the plate surfaces were horrible compared to the same MPC run on my B machine. Dimpeling, excess fuzz, tear out etc. Not at all what I expected from the brand new latest model, rubber belts, Carvetight, new bits etc of the 5 Year Anniversary package. And worst of all the two trucks, moved by hand, now feel like running a car with no suspension over two miles of rocky road. As a final insult the new 1/8" CT cutting bit snapped shortly after starting a 0.16" steps outline cut. It was time to walk away from it all for the night, feeling lucky I'd bought the one year warranty.

Okay, now it is a new morning and I'm going down now to thoroughly clean the new machine, the rails and the roller surfaces and see if that step makes them move a smoothly as my 2 year old B machine or the way they felt upon start-up. Then I'm going to run an MPC in pine with some simple shapes and precise surfaces as a cross check.

I'd appreciate any thoughts you can offer or if you've had a similar experience with a new machine let me know what to check or investigate. Thanks for listening to my complaining. Hope we'll all be having a better day later on. Sigh :(

[mtylerfl]

Hi Bruce,

Sorry to hear your story regarding the new machine.

I 'never' get as good a result when carving Poplar as I do on almost any other wood...Poplar always fuzzes and needs a lot more sanding after-the-fact to get a "clean" finish. Might be a regional thing - I've talked to a lot of folks who love Poplar and report very good results. Not me though, and I try to avoid it. I've got a couple Poplar boards left in the shop and am just waiting to use them on a project or two that would be easy to sand, because I know it's going to need it! After that, I probably won't buy any more.

You mentioned your trucks are moving "roughly". First thing I would check is the bearing adjustments and the Y-belt tension to see if any "slop" is coming from either or both of those two areas. Any 'wobble' from the trucks during the project run could also account for the bit breaking as well.

Hopefully you'll be back in good shape shortly.

[Digitalwoodshop]

One check I would do first is to hold the Z Belt by pushing on the top Motor Cog pulley to lock the Z Belt and try to pull and push the Z Truck up and down. You are looking for the 2 screws being loose in back of the Z Truck holding the belt to the Z Truck. This would cause all the above including the broken 1/8 inch bit.

Good Luck,

AL

[Capt Bruce]

Hello again Forumites

We'll I'll post the third response to my own post and say that now I'm a happier camper. I now put the key problem of "rough riding trucks" down to operator caused error for trying to run that project without dust collection installed. The last two hours spent cleaning out all the recesses of the CW have given me the best possible "lesson learned" of why my original B CW has run so dependably and with such minimum required maintenance over the last 2 years and 418 hours of carving. Floyd if you're reading, I'll be on line today to order another RNB DC hood.

Simply wiping off the C CW rails and bearings with an alcohol soaked cloth took off some heavy deposits of brown scum that used to be the dark poplar dust and then blowing out everywhere else toward an open 4" DC hose probably took out about a pound of dust total.

I'm thinking this accumulated dust also may have caused the broken cutting bit by jamming a bearing or pulley but that's just another symptom to get past now that the trucks move smoothly again.

I find it hard to believe I used to carve for the first 3-6 months on my B unit without a DC setup, but then that was primarily vector carving and Centerline letters on sign blanks. Big wood chips by comparison to the talcum like dust these deep contour poplar and tigerwood best/optimal quality carvings are producing.

This time it was just another ID-TEN-T error. That should be spelled out as ID10T for yours truly.

Well I'm now having a better day, how about you folks?

[mtylerfl]

Great news, Bruce...glad you're up and running alright. Hey, it's been over five years and I still don't run any dust collection (shame on me, I guess). NOTE: I DO clean my machines thoroughly after each project...as well as the shop floor around the machines!

[Smoken D]

Yep! Took a year for me to find out, a clean machine is a HAPPY machine.

[fwharris]

Capt. Bruce,

Yes we get spoiled with the dust collection and not having to spend all that time cleaning up the machine! Will be waiting on your order!!

[cestout]

I am cumming up on 500 hrs on this (B) machine and had well over 200 on each of the first 2 that Sears took back (an A then a B) and have only used a downdraft. Poplar is what I use frequently with a 180 grit mop cleanup. But I vacuum at intervals on large carves and at flips, then vacuum and blow after each carve of any size. I have had jerky Y travel on bit checking, but wiped and lubed the rails the clear the problem.
Clint

[Capt Bruce]

Thanks for that Clint,

I had experimented with downdraft when I first got the B unit since it always worked with my tablesaw, but it just didn't work well on wide one sided carvings. Tried inventing my own design, went over to Floyd's unit as soon as I could afford one and I have been using it every since. This little incident humbled me, cost me a large part of my otherwise productive weekend and has taught me to stick with what works so Floyd has another order.

When it arrives I'll install it and try carving the Scottish Shortbread plate again to give the new C machine a fair test rather than choking it up with fine (and copious amounts of) dust. Hope you're having a great weekend Sir.

[liquidguitars]

The fuzz is a wood and grain direction problem most of the time. If you can see the grain pattern on the surface of the wood run the grain direction v facing into the unit this could help.

Since you snapped a 1/8" bit i recommend redesigning the pattern to use the 3/16" mill bit LHR sells, frankly the 1/8" seems a little dated unless you need the tight radius cut outs.

[Capt Bruce]

Thanks LG,
Those are both good points you make and since I now need to re-order a cutting bit for the CarveTite chuck anyway it might as well be the 3/16" rather than the 1/8th. Looking back I can see that the surfaces produced on this MPC plate got gradually worse as the piece proceeded through the machine since the bearings and the rails had more and more "gunk bumps" added by accumulated dust that had been welded to their surfaces.

The bumps would have caused the two motors to alternately work harder overcoming that increasing rolling resistance on the "rough rail surfaces" left by all that gunk. Another writer described it well as stuttering or the Mel Tillis affliction. Add all that together while the machine is trying to move the tip of the cutting tool smoothly in three dimensions (and two of them are not keeping up) and you get a pockmarked surface, deeper or shallower adjacent cut lines, delicate features of the design getting broken or gouged, etc. All the while things look fine during the carve since you can't see it happening under that heavy snowfall like coat of dust. Not a fair test of carving for the new C CW so before a repeat - I will add back in the dust removal system operating full time.

"I make progress by having people around who are smarter than I am–and always listening to them. And I assume that everyone is smarter about something than I am."
--Henry J. Kaiser

[gregsolano]

Sorry Bruce its the Mel Tillis affliction. Mel Gibson has a foot in mouth affliction. LOL Just had to tease.

[Capt Bruce]

Right you are Greg, sometimes two in at once. Like I said, it keeps me humble screwing up at least once or twice a day.

[Deolman]

Everyone preaches a clean machine is a happy machine. We need to let the noobies know the static problems of using a shop vac. I have a Craftsman shop vac I can't run in my shop while the CarveWright is running. I cannot clean out the machine with it stopped in the middle of a carve. Twice I induced errors on the CarveWright from static. I now have a ShopVac brand unit that works OK. But, since I started using a downdraft unit and a portable shop dust collector, a couple of shots of air directs any accumulated dust into the downdraft system. Bottom line - don't destroy your CarveWright with Electro-Static-Discharge through the CarveWright's electronics!

[Capt Bruce]

Well said Deolman,

Can never mention that too often for our new users. The other thing I noticed on my first carve on this new C unit without a grounded DC unit and hose installed was the extreme static building up everywhere inside the carving chamber while in operation. The fine dust just built up everywhere leading to the problems I described above, including on the inside and outside of the clear door. It made it impossible to see the cutting bit tip in action during the carve (admitedly a long one). Waiting for my new Ringneck Blues DC head before I carve with the new machine again. Thanks

[chebytrk]

what's weird is that mine (A Model) started stuttering as well a while back and I went through all of the "basic" checks and decided to tighten up the Z Trk belt (side to side belt?). It felt tight already, but gave it just a "tad" more & it stopped stuttering. Don't know if this is good or not, but it has stopped for me. Hope I'm not causing too much stress on "Shanita" :)

[fwharris]

what's weird is that mine (A Model) started stuttering as well a while back and I went through all of the "basic" checks and decided to tighten up the Z Trk belt (side to side belt?). It felt tight already, but gave it just a "tad" more & it stopped stuttering. Don't know if this is good or not, but it has stopped for me. Hope I'm not causing too much stress on "Shanita" :)

Take a look at the gear on the belt adjustment plate. Had similar issue and found out that the gear was broken.

[hess]

i use RN dust hoods on all 3 unit but use the clear hose with wire running though it I cut the plastic away form the wire so it contact the hood this makes the ground. use a shop vac and it will static real fast

[fwharris]

Well said Deolman,

Can never mention that too often for our new users. The other thing I noticed on my first carve on this new C unit without a grounded DC unit and hose installed was the extreme static building up everywhere inside the carving chamber while in operation. The fine dust just built up everywhere leading to the problems I described above, including on the inside and outside of the clear door. It made it impossible to see the cutting bit tip in action during the carve (admitedly a long one). Waiting for my new Ringneck Blues DC head before I carve with the new machine again. Thanks

Capt. Bruce,

Just checked the tracking number in your insert is out for delivery today!! Happy dustless carving!!

[Capt Bruce]

Many thanks Floyd,
It arrived Friday afternoon and I'm installing it today. Appreciate your follow-through on the order.

[Capt Bruce]

I owe a follow up message to say the only fault with my new 5 Year Anniversary C CW is the owner.

With the Ringneck Blues DC installed I set the new CW to carve the same project in poplar that had choked it last time. 5 hours later the MPC dish turned out beautifully. I was enjoying it so much I immediately added a second carving.

As the saying goes "the proof is in the pudding." Presenting two carvings straight out of the machine with only the tabs trimmed off. Not even sanded yet.

50602 50603 50604 50605

My simple lesson learned is never run the CW again without dust collection installed and running. Sorry if my first message in the thread (frustrated rant) was a negative review of the new system and I didn't really think the machine was the root cause but this proved it beyond any doubt. It's great to have it on-line and carving. I hope everyone else is also having a great weekend too!

[lynnfrwd]

Love them! Thanks capt!!!


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[b.sumner47]

Really Nice, What setting did you use ?


Fair tides,

Capt Barry

[Capt Bruce]

Hi Barry,
The country house was carved at Best and the Scottish Shortbread plate on optimal setting.

[Kenm810]

Nice!! Really Nice, they Both look Really Great

I've made several short bread plates over the years,
but none as close to what I see as Perfect carved
portrait of the Stone Bridge to Brigadoon.
You can almost see the mist parting and hear the
faint sounds of pipes playing -- Well Done Capt
"The Clans are Gathering"

[fwharris]

Capt. Bruce,

Carves well done sir! Like to looks of your poplar choice, does not look like any that I can get out here. Glad to know that the DC-INSERT really sucked in making your carves a success! ;)

[Capt Bruce]

Yes Floyd, that it did! It really sucked! Many thanks for your fine design and rapid service. I did notice it's a little tougher to get my fat hand under the tube to lock the head lever. Future thought just for what it's worth.

I only occasionally come across one of those poplar boards with mixed sap wood and heartwood and I grab them when I see them. Does not work well on most carvings but on some it can contribute to the final appearance.

[fwharris]

Bruce,

Yes I've had a few say the same thing about the locking lever access. I do not use the lever as I think a lot of other users who don't to. With removing all of the dust that would normally build up on the board and maybe cause to head to raise as the compression rollers passed over the build up I see it as not needed.