Carvewright for sale

[mrstevens26]

I have a version b unit for sale. I have recently upgraded to a bigger cnc to keep up with the demand of small business. The unit is operational. To give a run down of the history of the machine...I have replaced the quick change chuck once. Went out again then had my father in law custom make a chuck for it. I replaced the sandpaper belts twice then recently replaced them with the heavy duty traction belts(new belts have about 8 hours on them). I replaced the bearings in the z-truck spindle. It may need a new z-truck or flex shaft. Flex shaft vibrates. Never found the cause. Have tried some modifications to it. I removed the motor from the unit and put it in a sound proof enclosure. Which did not work very good; the majority of the sound is not the motor. So i put it back. I also made a muffler similar to a car muffler for the exhaust which also did not work; the majority of the sound is not the exhaust it is the spindle which cannot be muffled. Which is where I sprayed the inside of the top cover with several coats of plasti-dip to help with the sound and put it back on cause i ran it for about a year with it off. Felt like it just got in the way. The lid safeties have been bypassed and i attempted to put a switch on the top cover to act as a safety switch so that i would not have to hit the stop button to pause it and then accidentally push it again and abort the project. Has happened on several occasions. But with all the vibrations the switch vibrated off so i did away with the switch. I have never had any real trouble out of the machine except for normal part wear, the board tracking sensor which I could fix by turning the machine off then on again and it would clear it up. Don't know why but i guess it would get a bad reading and would hang onto the fault until it was cleared by a restart. And the other problem that I had was what my wife likes to call user error, I like to call it a learning curve. The head pressure may need to be readjusted. The crank arm seems a little tight when lowering it. May just need some adjustment. Am not sure of any of the cutting times. will have to re-post those numbers. I also have the scanning probe $300 (and jumper cable) , designer software and pattern editor $200, Centerline license $100(I don't know if those licenses are transferrable). I'm not selling any of the bits that i have cause i use them with the new cnc. On the attached pics, Pic 4 is a close up of the custom chuck. I used a collet from a Skil router that i had to use with the chuck. The router model is a Skil 1825 if you want to purchase the collet and the chuck wrench. There are flats milled on the side of the chuck for a 7/8 wrench which will come with the machine if you want it. I am keeping my collet to go back on my router. Pic 5 is a view of the back left corner because this is where the wire for the scanning probe is tucked. And Pic 7 shows the back of the unit where you will see my failed attempt at connecting a muffler to the exhaust ports. That is why there is a piece of white pcv sticking out. Also on the left side of the top there is a rectangle hole and a drilled hole where my switch was mounted. None of these mod's have hindered the machine in any way. I am asking $800 but it is negotiable due to some fixes that need to be done. The machine will run fine right now, but like i said earlier the flex shaft vibrates and the bearing have been replaced and are still in their break in period which causes more heat. So I don't know if it is the flex shaft that needs replacing or the z-truck. message me if you are interested. i am located in augusta, ga. The buyer will pay shipping charges. I do not have the original box so i will make a crate to put it in.

[Ike]

To be honest with all the modification you would be better off selling your CW on e-bay. Now this is just my opinion, plus the software is non transferable. So the probe will need a new pattern editor software. Also with the non approved chuck (not saying it is not good) and bypassing the cover switch you may have a problem getting the price you want in the forum? LHR is selling a brand new CW "C" version for $999.00 plus $82.00 for shipping.

I hate to say it but, don't be surprise you get an offer ranging $400 to maybe $650.00? Possibly less then $400? The good thing is business is great that you needed a bigger CNC!

Ike

[mrstevens26]

Yes i saw that about the $999 machine. but that machine is the bare bone minimum. any add-ons you get will put you well into the 1000's. The only plus that it has is the carvetight chuck, which i will say that mine not having the tightening screw on it like the carvetight does keeps it perfectly balanced. Besides not having a warranty, I would say that my machine is a better deal. And also The price is negotiable.

[Ike]

Don't know if you knew, but LHR sells boxes and it may be cheaper then building a crate? Again my advice was my opinion and I hoped other members would have chimed in! I just know from the past and owning 4 machines what they are worth and making modification make a difference for pricing. The vibration and noise is most likely the chuck. With the new CT chuck I noticed more heat and vibration and just read by changing the allen screw reduces the heat, vibration to equal less noise!

With a new CW costing $999.99 and a re-manufactured machine with a warranty for $1399.99 selling a used machine is not easy to sell! Well I hope the best for you and I am trying just to help. Yes bare bones, everything but an 1/8th cutting bit and only a 30 day warranty.

You can't transfer your centerline or pattern editor if this would be a person first machine they would need to buy the centerline ($100.00)and the pattern editor for the probe. The probe is non usable without the pattern editor and cost another $195.00 not to mention you are not including any bits.

Plus from the looks it will need a new flex and cover switch and a chuck if a person can't get their hands on the missing piece for your chuck. So with your CW you can't consider the centerline or pattern editor in the pricing. The probe is worth some but useless without the PE. I still suggest e-bay, my offer as it is would be $300.00 plus $100.00 for shipping. Still I hope the best and hope you get want to asking for!


Good luck!

Ike

[mrstevens26]

I think my recent post sounded aggressive. sorry for that. I understand the software deal. Why do you say it looks like it needs a new flex? If you are referring to the what looks like electrical tape on the top bend. It is velcro tape to keep the shaft on the shaft support. It always wanted to pop off so i used the velcro to keep it in place. I haven't ever had any trouble out of the shaft as far as heat. Besides the vibrating but i am with you I also think it is the z-truck but have not confirmed it.

[bergerud]

I just bought a second hand B machine for $500. It had only 65 hours on it plus a new motor and new flex shaft. It is like new. I would have to agree with Ike, $300 or $400 on this forum is the best you could hope for. We have, however, seen machines go for more on ebay. That may be the way you should go.

[mrstevens26]

I just went and checked the usage. The cut motor has 143 hrs on it. I remembered to look at it after you mentioned the 65 hours. Why such a depreciation in value? It is a working machine. The bits cost 10-20 bucks through grainger. I know it is not relavant but i paid around 1600 for the machine. With a reduction of more than half. I could see if it were not working. If someone offered 500 plus shipping i might would take it.

[Ike]

I think my recent post sounded aggressive. sorry for that. I understand the software deal. Why do you say it looks like it needs a new flex? If you are referring to the what looks like electrical tape on the top bend. It is velcro tape to keep the shaft on the shaft support. It always wanted to pop off so i used the velcro to keep it in place. I haven't ever had any trouble out of the shaft as far as heat. Besides the vibrating but i am with you I also think it is the z-truck but have not confirmed it.

Lol no problem, you are fine! What I see on the flex it looks like it got too hot at the bend. It is discolored and if you are talking about the wire that holds the flex it is not needed to be taped in place. The support is suppose to be free to move as the flex moves and is supported when needed. Unless your flex is coming out of the top hat then that is a problem. The top hat where the flex snaps into should have a clip around 3 BB bearings. ( I think it is 3 BB's?)

To be straight forward, with all your modifications I would buy it as a part machine. We all have paid the same for our machines I have bought 4 in the past 5 years. All were $1699.00 plus the one time centerline and PE and probe. Yet if I was to sell my working version C CW I doubt I could get $650.00 and most likely would be $500.00. My machine works perfectly with no issues pending, all safety switches or loose Z truck!

I know it isn't what you want to hear no of us does! It is just the way it is and I tell you this with the utmost respect and really am trying to help! You may need to give your top right roller on your Z truck a little turn to stop the vibration. Does it move when by hand you rock it side to side? There should be very very little to no movement. if so the roller needs a little turn.

So like Berg agreed with me if you want more money then e-bay may be your best bet? I know for me I would buy your machine as a part machine with the hope of making it another operating machine. I appreciate your honesty telling us all you have done and the issues you have had with your CW. That is why I am being honest with you and sharing what I know what a CW in the same or similar condition has sold for in the past. They have been $300-$400 and that included the shipping. However I seen a person in the forum was given the same advice and sold their CW around your original price you asked on e-bay!

Ike

[AskBud]

I just went and checked the usage. The cut motor has 143 hrs on it. I remembered to look at it after you mentioned the 65 hours. Why such a depreciation in value? It is a working machine. The bits cost 10-20 bucks through grainger. I know it is not relavant but i paid around 1600 for the machine. With a reduction of more than half. I could see if it were not working. If someone offered 500 plus shipping i might would take it.There has always been a high drop in the price of used CW machines. However, now the current sale price for a new machine is just $999 plus shipping. People looking for a second unit may just opt for the $999 than risk a used unit at any price.
AskBud

[Digitalwoodshop]

I agree with the above... $800.00 on eBay is possible.... Or Craig's List.... With the High Unemployment, Desperate People do dumb things... Like buy a over priced un safe machine trying to feed the kids with projects.... Trying to sell a used machine here with the most educated users on the Planet is going to be a hard sell... Didn't see a hours posted... Did see that you ran it for a year without a top cover and to hear that your bypass switch had to be removed since you had very bad vibration... Vibration that could be caused by the New Chuck not being balanced or threaded with zero run out. That could be reflected in the Flex Shaft Vibration...

So we are talking a new Flex Shaft, New Motor, New Z Truck, New Board Sensor, New top Cover Safety Switches at the minimum...

The Year of vibration has likely damaged the L2 on the Power Supply and the C1 on the X Termination board... And that damaged termination board brings me to a very good point.... IF you searched my posts about 2 years ago when I first started having problems with the X Termination Board... I just added the pictures and the 2 board picture is dated 5/20/2008 for your search if you doubt me. What happened to me (BR) "Before ROCK CHUCK" was the QC vibration like your chuck vibration acted like one of the Fein Vibration Tools and made the C1 Capacitor vibrate like a lolly pop and snap off.... As a result with the machine plugged in and turned on, I just closed the clear plastic cover and the Cut Motor Started.... Open the Cover and the Cut Motor shut off as the Right Side Safety Switch stopped the motor.... Then I closed the cover and the Cut Motor DID NOT RUN.... But with the cover closed I "Thumped" on the top of the machine and the Cut Motor came on again..... The Q1 Transistor is the Electronic On Off Switch on the X Termination Board. While "YOU" are changing the BIT with the Right Side Cut Motor Safety Switch REMOVED from the machine and you have you 10 fingers wrapped around the Carbide Cutter.... The Only thing that is keeping the Q1 Transistor form Activating the Cut Motor is Microns thin Silicone inside that Transistor... And with your "Wrenches" don't "THUMP" on the machine just in case your "C1" Cap just broke and is waiting to re make contact as you thump the machine and the charged cap turn on the Q1 and turn on the Cut Motor..... Ouch.... I make this "Graphic Statement" to let others learn that removing the Cut Motor Safety Switch is like using a Match to see in the dark how much Gasoline is in the Lawn Mower Tank. You only do it once.... And if no one ever told you that using a open flame to check the gas level in your lawn mower, then you would just think it was OK to do... Like the Safety Switchs...

Of my 4 machines and very heavy usage in 2008, I had 3 broken C1 Caps...... The Only machine that did not snap was the one that I bought from IKE.... I ended up using it for a parts machine in 2009 and 2010 so it still has low hours but it WORKS.......

SO with all that being said.... IF you sell this machine you should get them to sigh a release of Liability that is air tight.

IF you Don't... and they get hurt due to your unauthorized safety switch modifications..... Well, the Lawyers will love this case.... Especially if they find the above post in the CW Archives even if you delete it.... They will love you admitting that you bypassed the safety switches.... And YES... This is the world we live in....

If I were you.... I would lob that machine into a dumpster..... It would be cheaper in the end..... It's a real Liability selling it as is... OR.... Part it out on eBay.... Just the CW Computer would sell quick on ebay.... The hacked up Cut Motor is valuable for the Armature..... I am due for a Armature Swap in the next 2 years as I am on the 5th set of brush's on the first motor.... Replace the Armature with a Youngster and your back in business.... as the Bearings and copper commutator are valuable...

Good Luck,

I value your machine at less than $200.00 with Shipping.... sorry....

AL

[lawrence]

I promise I'm not trying to pile on here... but the others are not trying to undercut you.

I would value it around $300ish too... and that only if I was within driving distance. You should probably do better on ebay or craigslist but be warned that if your EBAY customer is not happy you end up eating the shipping cost and possibly getting a broken machine back after the 2-way trip (don't ask me how I know this)

Sorry not to have better news- but if you sell it here on the site you are probably not going to get anywhere near your asking price.

Lawrence

[Ike]

Sorry Mr. Stevens, too bad there isn't any room for your CW in your business. I did the opposite of you, with my first CW I also bought a Shopbot 4896 48" by 96" CNC and then a K2 2514 25" by 14" table CNC. The CW software and free updates and the machine itself worked best for my sign shop. I never used the SB and sold it and still have the K2, never used! I wish I didn't sell the SB I bought another business......well that's another story best forgotten!

I bought 3 more sold one to Al and by the way thank you for input. Al is our go to guy and knows the CW from top to bottom! Anyway I hope you get want you want and understand why the machine loses it value so quickly. If you sell it on e-bay make sure you enclose the modifications you made and even though it does work sell it as is

Ike

[mrstevens26]

Well everyone thanks for your inputs but i though posting it on a site where people knew the machine in general and knew the value of them would recognize a decent machine and would be interested in it. From a LHR standpoint the mods of the machine especially the safeties may be frowned upon but with the machine being out of warranty anyways I don't see where they hurt the value. The people on this site know what they are getting "as is". The depreciation may be a representation of the issues that come along with it.

[Ike]

Well everyone thanks for your inputs but i though posting it on a site where people knew the machine in general and knew the value of them would recognize a decent machine and would be interested in it. From a LHR standpoint the mods of the machine especially the safeties may be frowned upon but with the machine being out of warranty anyways I don't see where they hurt the value. The people on this site know what they are getting "as is". The depreciation may be a representation of the issues that come along with it.

To break it down the cost to repair your CW exceeds the value of the machine. From your mods you took the value away from your machine. At this time the $999.00 special does not help anybody trying to sell a used machine. I do know the machine and I was trying to help you and a possible new buyer.

Say you did sell your CW to new buyer for $500.00 plus $82.00 for shipping. You send it as is and it was working, it arrives to the buyer. They use the CW and soon they get an error. Not knowing anything about how to fix the unit they call LHR. Before any support a $25.00 fee is charged. I am sure the LHR tech will ask some question first before the charge. The buyer tells the tech, the CW is used, the safety switches have been bypassed and a non CW chuck was installed. (Keep in mind LHR staff reads the forum and they will already know the problems.) So they can suggest replacing the known problems then trouble shooting one part at a time at $12.00 per ship. Or the buyer may choose to send it in for repair. But first the tech will inform the buyer, by law they must repair any safety issues and replace any non authorized CW parts before the machine can be sent back.

So another $82.00 for shipping, 2 switches not sure of price $20.00- $30.00, the cover and cut motor switches ( you posted you ran the CW without the cover so the motor switch had to be bypassed) Then $160.00 for a new CT chuck and because of the vibration a new flex assembly $75.00. About $265.00 for parts then about 2 hours for labor. I not sure of the rate, but I think it is around $80.00 per hour. Add another $160.00 for labor. With shipping, parts, labor the total cost comes to approx. $507.00 add another $582.00 for the initial cost the buyer is into your CW for $1089.00 Just about the same cost for a brand new CW delivered with the $999.00 special with a 30 day warranty.

For the experience CW owner deduct the $160.00 labor and it comes to $929.00! So for the cost of labor a experience owner can have a new machine. These figure only covers the issues posted and known safety concerns. The motor was put in a sound proof container which also tell me no air flow so is the motor damaged? That $999.00 special will end someday, yet LHR still offers a refurbished CW for $1399.99 with a 6 month warranty. So good a working non modified used machine can sell for about $750.00 or so.

Because we are members who know how the machine works and know how to repair any problems. We have a good ideal of the worth of the machine and the condition from questions and the description of the seller. That is why we ask how many hours are on the cut motor? What is the model, A,B or C? What chuck doe the machine have? Has the belts been changed? What kind of maintenance was perform etc. The list goes on and on!

There are senior members who know more then other members and we trust and turn to them for help. So yes we recognize a decent machine and we know any used CW is sold as is.

With your CW the depreciation is not a representation of the issues that come with the machine. It is how you repaired them and ignored safety procedures and the modifications that could have affected other areas. The machine may work now, but may break if it programmed to perform an normal operation different from what you have used it for.

I am sorry, but even without the $999.00 special offer, your machine would still be only worth about $300.00, only because of the heavy duty belts. Otherwise I agree with Al the value would be $200.00.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Thanks Ike and the others for backing me up.... I mean no HARM in my statement of facts. This forum is here to Support and Educate the Users New and Old. The Go To Place to get answers and education.... Sometimes we just need to say.... "Sorry that 32 inch SONY Picture Tube TV that you paid $1600.00 Five Years ago is not worth $800.00 now.... More like $20.00...." I worked at the Sony Picture Tube Plant that is now a Dusty Parking Lot where the 3 buildings were... Sure we all like to hold on to that "Perceived Value".... Then we find the real value is much less...

And to add to Ike's Excellent Summery you must take into consideration that this flex vibration has been slowly destroying your machine for the year you ran it and you must add to Ike's List, the L2 in the Power Supply and the C1 Cap on the X Termination Board are damaged and may be only holding on by a hair thin copper strip and the vibration in shipping could snap in transit and with the Safety Switch Modifications.... In the first 30 seconds of new ownership the new user could have his fingers cut off.... Are you ready for that knock on the door... Not me.... It is like shipping a loaded gun through the mail....

I have in the past recommended to DONATE a used machine to a HIGH SCHOOL WOOD SHOP and take the Tax Deduction.... but in this case... NO that is not an option....

Good Luck,

AL

[Ike]

Like Al I too started out trying to help mrstevens, but seemed to have offend him? I tried politely telling him e-bay was his best for selling his CW. I hope the $999.00 last for a while, well at least when I am able again to buy a new CW! Maybe it is just me I rather have a new CW verses a used! Unless that used machine is in perfect working order and has been properly used and cared for. Plus the used machine would need to come with some accessories like a bit set and a CT and belt upgrade. The other way I would buy a used machine if it was really cheap to be used as a part machine!

Mr Stevens this forum is a community that looks out for each and you being a member I/we were trying to look out for your best interest. This also includes all the other members and future members. So as senior members like Al, he does not want anybody to get the short end of the stick! You believe your machine is fine and we know from your modifications and running it with vibrations could lead to more problems then the machine is worth.

So back to the original advice you will get more money selling through e-bay or your local Graig's list or paper. Otherwise in the forum expect to sell your CW for about $200.00 or so. The other option just keep and use your CW for small projects?

Ike

[PCW]

One more whack and I'm sure he will be a goner.


50176

[Ike]

One more whack and I'm sure he will be a goner.


50176


Lol that is just it, no whacks were intended......at first! Okay stop beating the dead horse!

[PCW]

Hi Ike

Just trying to stir the pot a little. You know me. :mrgreen:

[Ike]

I am thinking it has been stirred well! Good to see you posting! Hope all is well!

Rick

[mrstevens26]

I appreciate the honesty from all of you. Really I do. One thing Al has been saying is that I ran it for a year with the vibrations. We started our business early november 2011. Since I got it in March of 2008 i never ran it much, maybe putting 50- 60 hrs on it. Since november i have increase the odometer to 143 hrs. It is within these last 2 months that the vibrations started. Never had any trouble from it prior, except for an occasional flex shaft shaking when cutting cross grain with an endmill. It never seemed to do it when using the carving bit. I ran it with the cover off because to me it was in the way and I didn't have a dust collector on it so it made it easier to vacuum out while running. Yes it was not too safe, thats why safety glasses and hearing protection was worn. I ran the machine every chance i got to keep up with the demand for the business. I ran nothing but cut-paths with a 1/16" endmill, and in my opinion, when the machine comes up out of a path to move to the next one it stops and starts the motor, it is hard on the spindle bearing stopping and starting which I believe is why they went out the first time caused the vibration and is causing the new bearings to start to go bad. Like it has been said this machine was not made for commercial use. Other wise for hobby is it a good machine. But I can do the same thing and more with my new machine and faster so there is no need to keep this machine. Also by comparing the machine to a sony picture tube tv, and yes i understand you were only trying to make a point, is like comparing a cars value to a cell phone. The technology in electronics rapidly advances causing them (tv's & cell phones) to lose value very quick. As for the technology in a car or this machine does not progress as fast. But i will replace the safety switches before i sell it.

[Ike]

I am so glad to hear your business is growing so quickly. May I ask what you do? You stated, "the vibration just started" is that before or after replacing your chuck? The thing is all the CW perform the same, so the motor stops is part of normal operation. So if that was the cause I know there would be several more vibration threads! Not to mention the CW motor is a servo and not a stepper.

You mentioned you ran the machine without the cover to be able to vacuum while running. Lol I have to say you are so fortunate that you did not fry your all your electronics with static electricity! When Al reads this I know he will reiterate his prediction of the L2 in the Power Supply and the C1 Cap on the X Termination Board are damaged and may be only holding on by a hair thin copper strip!

The word "commercial" to LHR means the machine being used for business. Of course nobody does that here in the forum ;)! I have made in the past 5 years well over 1,000 or so signs with my CW's and many more including hand routing. Al has over 1,000 hours on his CW's making signs, fire tags, wine racks, quilt racks etc. Liquidguitar has made with his CW's many beautiful violins, guitars and others stringed instruments that are in great demand fetching a good price! Tom Watson sign business is flourishing ( I am very much jealous!) and all made with his CW's. The list goes on with several no most of the members in the forum! Again nope nobody uses their CW's commercially!

Don't get me wrong we all have had some issue with our machines. The thing is some less then others because they routinely properly clean and maintain their machines. They never take shortcuts and repair any issues right away and with the correct parts! I have been lazy and have neglected my one CW and now I have a stripped roller table gear! If I don't watch out I am going to be in the same spot with my other CW!

If you like to give some more info on when the vibration began before or after you installed the chuck made by your father in law? Was before or after bypassing the safety switches and running the machine and vacuuming while running? Have you checked the Z plate for movement. Have you checked both ends of the flex cable where it is inserted into the chuck and the motor for any damage?

I ask because you posted you plan on installing the safety switches. So maybe we as members can help you track down that vibration and check the other issue Al has concerns about. Find out if it is an easy fix you can take care of it and know the machine will continue to work. Or find out there is more to fix then it is worth? At least that way you can see where you stand.

Let us know I will help anyway I can.

Ike

[Digitalwoodshop]

I am glad to see you used your machine in a Vector 1/16th inch end mill mode. I think that is a very under utilized feature of the machine and one that has made my business a success as I can cut two sided sheet stock into tags. Only one sided tags were available before I perfected using Vector Cutting with my machine. Assigning the 1/4 inch bit but using the 1/16th End Mill to lock the feed rate into 1st gear. I too find cutting a sheet of 20 tags that the Cut Motor shuts off at the end of the Vector Cut then quickly starts again Stressing the Cut Motor.... As the Cut Motor was still coasting to a stop.... I have that request in on the Software Request Thread to increase the delay to shut off the Cut Motor slightly while doing a project like that.

I wish you luck selling your CW and just curious what model and table size did you get to replace it?

You have been a good Sport in all this..... Good Luck,

AL