Should we be using end mills?

[bergerud]

I have been using a 1/8" and a 3/16" cutting bit a lot lately to cut out pieces of pine (for my own version of a rotary jig ) and I cannot believe the intensity of the noise the bit makes. I am making only 0.25" depth passes and it is really loud. I think these end mill type bits are for lower rpm milling machines and not for routers. Router manufacturers do not make router bits like end mills. A 1/8" router bit would have one or two flutes and a lot of chip clearance. Look at the following bits I found on eBay and tell me if you think these might be more appropriate for the Carvewright application. I have bought these bits as well as some longer ones. I will report again on this in a few weeks when I get them and get a chance to try them.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/180763673810?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/400226972775?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

[liquidguitars]

.866 Cutting edge Length（CEL）: 22mm that's cutting it close if the max carving depth is .805" max cutting 1" I been running the 3/16 ball and mill and yes it's got some shrill at times.

I guess the rotary jig could have a little more resonance. :)


Here is a video for no good reason but to check the new Youtube audio tools.... but it uses the new Carvewright 3/16" mill that i do dig...


CW perfection:


http://youtu.be/wVTBhu5Gp8k

[Smoken D]

LG that sure some strange shrill coming off your machine. Might wanna get it checked out. Then again maybe my machine is the one not making the same shrill as yours does and wish it did!!:-D

[Jeff_Birt]

It all comes down to using the right bit for the job. The bits the CarveWright sells are a good quality micrograin carbide. The Ebay bits obviously are not. You can't run cheap HSS bits like you do good carbide bits (given that they are even of the same style.)

Bits are not bits (a.k.a. parts are not parts). EBay is usually not the right place to buy good quality tooling. Cheap yes, good no...

[bergerud]

Jeff, these bits are carbide. They are not the HSS rotozip bits. I do not know how you can say everything on eBay is garbage. Even if they are garbage, I get 10 of them cheaper than one Carvewright bit. If I was machining metal, quality might be a worry but this is wood and I am starting to think chip clearance is the more important than quality. Have you thought about making a two flute carving bit instead of a four flute? I notice the four flute sometimes plugs up.

I have a carbide Dremel single flute 1/8" bit (Trio bit) I will try today. It is a down spiral which I do not like but it might be great for people with down draft DC.

[PCW]

Just curious to know have you have had a chance to give these bits a try. The description doesn't say that they are solid carbide but just more solid carbide. Have to say the price is good.

Feature
Excellent processing technique,it can let your engraving more stable precise.
Harder than common one. More solid carbide content.
The price is more reasonable.

Edit: I see you have not tried them as of yet. Please post the results when you give them a try.

[bergerud]

One of them says solid carbide and the other, as you say says more carbide but I presume that is a language thing. I do not think you can alloy carbide. They are the same as others which are carbide. It this point, I do not care too much, it is the bit geometry which I want to test.

[bergerud]

I just tested the down spiral Dremel Trio carbide bit. These are "multi purpose" bits for use with the Dremel on all types of wood and metal. I did full depth cut outs in 3/4" pine. I would have been scared to do these cuts with the 1/8" cutting bit. The test went well with noise but not that horrible squeal I get from even shallow end mill cuts. As you can see from the picture, the tip of the bit did get hot. I think this was right at the beginning of the cut as it plunged. The down spiral pushes the cuttings down making plunging a problem. These spiral type bits are only good for cut outs since the end is not square. The up spiral versions should be better.

I have also ordered two flute up spiral bits which are square ended. These I have higher hopes for. I will report when I test them.

[PCW]

Well thanks for giving it a try. I think you will have alot better results with the up-cut. I'm waiting on two bits and adapters as well from eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270860649768&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:US:1123) too.

I love to read your posts.. Your definitely a thinker. :-D

[easybuilt]

I buy from this guy all the time, I get my order within a couple days and the bits are great for the price.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150710074136&ssPageName=ADME:B:BCA:US:1123#ht_1000wt_1163

[ktjwilliams]

I buy from this guy on EBay... Solid Carbide,, made in the USA,, fast shippig, Good prices... The 3/16th ball nose bit I use was purchased here for $ 6.85 with shipping !!! 6061DUDE ...

[bergerud]

Well I have tried the one and two flute carbide cutting bits. They are quiet compared to the 4 flute bits. The shrill is gone! I have not used them enough yet to give a detailed report, but I think I am sold.

When I look under my microscope at a used four flute bit, I see the whole grind is polished. Parts of the bit which should never touch wood are polished. This leads me to think that the bit does a lot of rubbing instead of cutting. I do not know if this is a feed rate problem or chip clearance problem, but it does not seem right to me.

Consider this: At 20,000 rpm, a four flute bit should cut 80,000 times a minute. That is 1333 cuts a second. If the bit is moving at an inch per second, that is 0.00075 of an inch per cut. (How important is run out? Topic for another thread.) There must be a minimum amount that a bit can cut. As a bit is pushed into the work, it rubs until a certain pressure is reached and then it shears into the work. My feeling is that these cutting bits are not always cutting. As they are pushed into the wood, they alternately rub and cut. I think that is why we hear the shrill from these four flute bits.

I still hear a hint of shrill once in a while from the two flute bit when the feed rate slows for a corner.

[Pratyeka]

I have been using these "O" flute type bits since last summer to cut wood, acrylic and aluminium at work, best bits ever. We use LOC of 5/8 and 1.5 inch. I spin the 1/8 dia bit at 26,000 rpm into acrylic and about 20,000 into 1/2 inch aluminium.
I don't buy them off ebay, quality control is primordial.

[bergerud]

I have some of them too. Seems like the way to go all right. Where do you buy yours?

[rickyz]

Jeff, these bits are carbide. They are not the HSS rotozip bits. I do not know how you can say everything on eBay is garbage. Even if they are garbage, I get 10 of them cheaper than one Carvewright bit. If I was machining metal, quality might be a worry but this is wood and I am starting to think chip clearance is the more important than quality. Have you thought about making a two flute carving bit instead of a four flute? I notice the four flute sometimes plugs up.

I have a carbide Dremel single flute 1/8" bit (Trio bit) I will try today. It is a down spiral which I do not like but it might be great for people with down draft DC.
what chuck are you using? the trio bits have a 3/8 shank if I remember right.

[Pratyeka]

I get those bits from them:
http://www.toolstoday.com/p-5879-solid-carbide-spiral-o-flute-plastic-cutting-up-cut-down-cut-router-bits.aspx

[bergerud]

Thank you Pratyeka, I will order some.

rickyz: The trio bits have a 3/16 shank. I use an ER16 spindle (see picture in #12 reply). The ER16 spindle uses collects. It can hold any size shank from 1/16" to 3/8". I mostly just use 1/8", 3/16", and 1/4".

[rickyz]

Thank you Pratyeka, I will order some.

rickyz: The trio bits have a 3/16 shank. I use an ER16 spindle (see picture in #12 reply). The ER16 spindle uses collects. It can hold any size shank from 1/16" to 3/8". I mostly just use 1/8", 3/16", and 1/4".
gotcha. i got the rock chuck... love it. i did mean 3/16 not 3/8. I actually told a dremel rep that they would sell more of the trios if they used 1/4 inch bits. he agreed but then of course you wouldn't have to buy their bits....

[briggsy97]

We use Onsrud cutters on our big CNC cutter at work. We are cutting out profiles only, not really carving anything. You can see the tool profiles and compare them to the carvewright tools on the website. Here is the link to the resources page that can help you calculate chip load for the tools. http://www.onsrud.com/xdoc/FeedSpeeds I have only had the machine for a month and am still learning how to run it. But I did wonder about the tools when I first saw them. They remind me of the tools we use in our HAAS CNC's to cut steel at work.

[bergerud]

Thank you. I do believe we are using mills designed for metal on wood. I will check it out the feed rate data on the site.

[CarverJerry]

I was just given a couple of 1/4" carbide end mills that are tappered (close to 7°) and has a 1/32 ball, it only has a 1/2" length of cut but these should work just fine for doing lithos since they are only 1/4" thick to start with. Over all length is 2 1/2"......and these are for metal but I do believe they will work great on corian or acrylic (cast) for lithos.
One thing was said about alloy and carbide, and no carbide only comes in different grades, no alloy what so ever. And I do believe the high squeel we hear is what would be classified as chatter but at 20,000 rpms this is what we hear. What causes chatter?....a little slop in the spindle, the board moving a fraction or causing it to vibrate, and also the # one reason most of the time.......too high of RPM, which we can't really control much. Ask any machinist and he will tell you the same thing....speeds and feeds are the key things. Just my 2¢ worth here.....