Motor stall???

[northey87]

Ok, so I was working on two 5hr carves yesterday, first one completed just fine, but the second appartently stopped around 96% complete on the carve it was working on and gave a Z axis stall error. I then cleared the error and turned the machine off since it was late last night. So, today I go to test the machine to see if will give another stall error, instead I found my problem, the cut motor will not responed. I put a project in the machine, went through the measuring process just fine, put the first bit in and the cut motor failed to start, there is a high pitched whining sound but no spinning. I then told it that I reloaded the bit and it again failed to spin. Turned machine off, reached in and was able to spin the chuck by hand, so the motor isn't seized. Where do I start? sounds like it may be electrical, but IDK? Please help. Thanks

[fwharris]

Sounds similar to a X termination board problem I helped a friend with. He had the same issue with the cut motor not coming on and we noticed a whining sound when the motor was suppose to start.

[henry1]

Ok, so I was working on two 5hr carves yesterday, first one completed just fine, but the second appartently stopped around 96% complete on the carve it was working on and gave a Z axis stall error. I then cleared the error and turned the machine off since it was late last night. So, today I go to test the machine to see if will give another stall error, instead I found my problem, the cut motor will not responed. I put a project in the machine, went through the measuring process just fine, put the first bit in and the cut motor failed to start, there is a high pitched whining sound but no spinning. I then told it that I reloaded the bit and it again failed to spin. Turned machine off, reached in and was able to spin the chuck by hand, so the motor isn't seized. Where do I start? sounds like it may be electrical, but IDK? Please help. Thanks
this were it is to bad you can't talk thru a mic and one on one and help out but have to type ///// your flex core all the way in you have to have a resistence
on the chuck when turning sounds like your flex shaft
Henry

[henry1]

Sounds similar to a X termination board problem I helped a friend with. He had the same issue with the cut motor not coming on and we noticed a whining sound when the motor was suppose to start.
would you be able to put a pic of the X termination board

[fwharris]

here is one Al posted

http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?15935-Cut-Motor&p=161407#post161407

[northey87]

Ok, I just pulled the flex shaft out of the carve tight, turned it by hand and can hear the motor turning, the flex shaft is fine, and confirmed that the motor is not seized.

[Digitalwoodshop]

It is possible that the Cut Motor is turning and the Flex is either broken.... I have broke one... OR the Glue has failed on the outer flex and the main tube has pulled out of the twist in and lock end at the motor?

Not sure how many hours on your machine.. The Cut Motor Brushes could be too short... 250 plus cut motor hours and you need to replace the brushes....

Pull the flex from the Bit End and turn it.... Do you feel the resistance of the motor turning... Call up sensor data and look for the cut motor pulses to go from 0000 to 0001, 0002, 0003.....

Pull a Cut Motor Brush and look at the length....

Look at the Wires to the Cut Motor, the push on connectors....

Look at the X Termination Board for burnt parts or the C1 Cap broken off....

Screws holding the Clear Cover or the Screws holding the Right Side Cut Motor Switch may have come loose due to QC Vibration.

Do you have the QC, Rock or CT? QC Vibration took out 3 C1 Caps on my 4 machines....

Let us Know...

AL

[northey87]

It is possible that the Cut Motor is turning and the Flex is either broken.... I have broke one... OR the Glue has failed on the outer flex and the main tube has pulled out of the twist in and lock end at the motor?

Flex shaft is fine no breakage.

Not sure how many hours on your machine.. The Cut Motor Brushes could be too short... 250 plus cut motor hours and you need to replace the brushes....

There are about 65 cut hours on the machine.

Pull the flex from the Bit End and turn it.... Do you feel the resistance of the motor turning... Call up sensor data and look for the cut motor pulses to go from 0000 to 0001, 0002, 0003.....

Will try this....

Pull a Cut Motor Brush and look at the length....

Look at the Wires to the Cut Motor, the push on connectors....

Look at the X Termination Board for burnt parts or the C1 Cap broken off....

I wil also do this as soon as I figure out how.

Screws holding the Clear Cover or the Screws holding the Right Side Cut Motor Switch may have come loose due to QC Vibration.

Will check this also

Do you have the QC, Rock or CT? QC Vibration took out 3 C1 Caps on my 4 machines....

Sorry, I really need to put this info in my sig. It's a brand new version C bought back in Feb.

Let us Know...

AL


Will let you know

[northey87]

Ok, so I think I now know part of my problem. I took the cut motor apart to find that the lower brush may have shorted out, the connectors on both the brush and the wire lead are burnt and were barely touching when I opened it up. See pics.

Also the housing on the same half is cracked around the rear bearing. the rest of the motor seem fine, is there a way to just get the motor housing? or am I looking at a whole new motor?

4934349344

[hray]

clean around the crack with alcohal carefully v the crack and j b weld the crack and put 1/4 with skin over the
carcked portion of the motor i have one trhats over 5 years old and its still going

[northey87]

Thanks for confirming that, I was thinking about JB weld earlier today. Since the other half of the housing is intacted it should hold up just fine.

[northey87]

Okay, I am back up and running. I was able to JB weld the housing back together. The machine is currently air carving trying to recover a project.

The frustrating apart about this is that there less than 70 cut hours on the machine and I keep having breakdowns, this one being the latest. I take care of my machines, but this is getting really old.

[northey87]

Ok, not up and running!!!! *&(#@*#@*&^!!!! Got through 3hrs of air carving, went to install the carving bit to finish the project and the motor won't start again! So I tore down the machine again, opened the motor and everything looks fine. All the wires and connections intacted. So I moved on to the X termination board, it was intacted, nothing broken that I can see. What is going wrong?

[mtylerfl]

Ok, not up and running!!!! *&(#@*#@*&^!!!! Got through 3hrs of air carving, went to install the carving bit to finish the project and the motor won't start again! So I tore down the machine again, opened the motor and everything looks fine. All the wires and connections intacted. So I moved on to the X termination board, it was intacted, nothing broken that I can see. What is going wrong?

That motor brush looked pretty worn down - maybe as simple as replacing the brushes (as long as you are certain that your connections are all good, that is). Hard to tell from the one photo whether the brushes really need replacing, though.

[northey87]

I wouldn't think that it would be the brushes, the one in the photo is only sticking out half way at least. There is about 1/2" of brush material left on both. But I don't have new brushes to confirm this or not.

[ibewiggin]

The right side safety switch would be my guess. It cuts power to the motor and they fail all the time. It is located on the right side of the cover.

[mtylerfl]

The right side safety switch would be my guess. It cuts power to the motor and they fail all the time. It is located on the right side of the cover.

Great suggestion to check...although I do not agree they "fail all the time". I've never had to replace either of the door switches on either of my two machines...I HAVE had to blow them out with compressed air maybe 3 or 4 times in the last five years.

[northey87]

Nope already check it, both switches are working on the hood.

[northey87]

Does this look right? everything is firmly attached, but are the burnt connections normal? or is the unit bad?

4938449385

[henry1]

Does this look right? everything is firmly attached, but are the burnt connections normal? or is the unit bad?

4938449385
That look burnt to me, I have new one here will take a pic and be righr back

[henry1]

That look burnt to me, I have new one here will take a pic and be righr back
Here are new one

[northey87]

Thanks for that. I will be ordering one of those tomorrow.

[henry1]

Thanks for that. I will be ordering one of those tomorrow.
To bad your not close would let you have this one till yours came in
Henry

[PCW]

I would wait for Al to check in first. Capacitor do heat up and some discoloring is normal.

[mtylerfl]

Resistors? The discoloration does not look normal to me - too much voltage gone through them(?). Perhaps Al can shed more light on this.

Did find this...

"
The job of a resistor is to blow if there is an unexpected power surge. The resistor attenuates current; the degree to which it does this depends on the value of the transistor. While inconvenient when a resistor blows, this process protects the remaining components from further damage. When a resistor blows, it leaves behind a sooty residue. Depending on the intensity of the blowout, a blown resistor may have a small amount of soot or be entirely discolored, typically brown."

...and this...

"DAMAGED RESISTORS OR CAPACITORS - A resistor that is discolored or charred has been subjected to an overload."

[northey87]

I was going to order one anyways so I would have one on hand just in case. I look forward to Al chiming in on this.

[Digitalwoodshop]

I am thinking there is a Shorted Winding in the Motor and that is what caused the increased current in the Resisitors.....

I would Trash the Cut Motor and the X Termination Board and get another of each.... The Q1 or Transistor 1 is the on off switch for the Cut Motor.... The 6 leg units are Photo Transistors... Or Couplers... The computer turns on the LED inside the chip and a photo receiver picks up the LIGHT turns on the Transistor and in turn tunning on the Cut Motor... The Photo Coupler Isolates the Computer control Wires from the House Voltage or 115 Volts AC....

If you buy the motor or the X Termination board and install one or the other with a suspected bad part you could blow the new patrs....

Honestly it looks like the Motor went bad first and took out the control board....

At this point you can't put the Smoke back into the Resistors..... So they are bad.... (A Little Electronic Humor)

A burnt X Termination Board from someone else...

From my knowledge of Electronics and Failure Analysis it is going to be just a random Cut Motor Failure, the insulation coating on the turns of wires or windings cause a short circuit. The Insulation on the wires lets the windings be wound without shorting. That takes out the X Termination Board.....

Now the other option is that a Dust Collector was used and the Machine was not Grounded and a Static Electricity Charge built up on a running machine and the High Voltage Static Shorted to the Cut Motor and caused the Failure.

OR 3.... One of the Brush Wires was rubbing on a moving part and shorted out the motor and took out the X Termination Board.

Just a WAG.... Wild AL Guess....

AL

[northey87]

Thanks for the info, I will be replacing both pieces.

I do not know which set of events caused the failure...I do use a DC system that is grounded, although the machine itself is not grounded. I have never been statically shocked by either piece of equipment.

[Digitalwoodshop]

I have a dust collector and a Copper Hood that is painted. I have a 8 foot long insulated wire with 3 Gator Clips about a foot between each. One end goes to 2 places on my Dust Collector that is grounded via the 220 volt plug. The Other End I hook to the foil Dryer Hose at the collector and then one to the Roll around metal cart and the other to the in feed tray.

I was doing a Cut Path one day and I hear snap, snap, snap, snap.... I look into the plastic cover and at each snap a Lightning Bolt went from the Copper collector to the 1/8 inch cutting bit.... So the dust was producing a steady flow of Static Electricity inside the Hood and Foil Hose and with the Dust Collector End being Painted must not have grounded. So the Static Voltage was Arcing the 1 inch gap to the machine ground.... Imagine how much voltage it must take to jump a 1 inch gap... Thousands of Volts.....

I hooked up that Ground on the hood and hose and the Arcing Stopped....


SO it is likely that your machine not being grounded built up a High Voltage Static Charge and Voltage will seek out GROUND and through the Cut Motor Ground or Neutral or White wire it will..... And in the process cause DAMAGE.....

Let this be a lesson to everyone reading this that just to be SAFE make sure your machine is Grounded through your Dust Collector...

And PLEASE DON'T drive a Ground Rod into the Ground near your Dust Collector or Machine. ALWAYS use the Building Power Entry point Ground... In fact for the Electricians.... If your Shop has a Sub Panel for power the "Bonding Screw" inside the Box should be removed or not engaged.

Using a 2nd Ground Rod causes a thing called a GROUND LOOP that is the difference in Potential between the 2 grounds.... A search of Ground Loop will give you lots of reading.... And mention of the Sub Panel Bonding Screw to not be engaged.

Good Luck and Happy Carving...

AL

Since then I have changed to the Ringneck Collector and LOVE IT... works better than my collector.

[northey87]

Where would be the best place to attach a grounding wire to the CW?

[Digitalwoodshop]

Any Metal Frame Screw hole. I have the side cover off my machine for quick X Gear Change outs and a screw hole there on metal would be good.


AL

[northey87]

Ok, new motor and x termination board installed and it is still doing the same thing! I go through the measuring steps and when I insert the first bit the cut motor does nothing, all I hear is little high pitched electrical whine.

So what am looking at now? new power supply?

I did not see any loose or fried connections while I had the bottom off to install x term board.

[northey87]

Must be a slow day, anyone out there?

[Digitalwoodshop]

That was un expected...... Could be the Computer too....

AL

[northey87]

Seems like I got a lemon :[ I thought this machine was going to be fun, but its turning into a money pit, and giving wrinkles, grey hair, and migraines.

[mtylerfl]

Seems like I got a lemon :[ I thought this machine was going to be fun, but its turning into a money pit, and giving wrinkles, grey hair, and migraines.

Pardon me if I've misunderstood something from the previous postings, but I thought it was finally determined you damaged the machine electronics by not having your dust collection properly grounded. Unfortunately, it sounds like more damage was done than originally thought. Once you get your machine back to factory-new condition, I KNOW you will have fun with it!

[northey87]

I am still not completely convinced that not having the machine grounded to the dc was the cause of the current damage, the dc is grounded metal duct all except the last two feet between the machine and the duct work and I have never heard, seen, or feel any static discharge in, on, or around the machine? I will be grounding the unit as soon as I can figure out what is wrong (which is why am here) and can afford to fix it.

So where should I be looking next?

[northey87]

Found my problem and it was my fault. I went to check the X termination board to make sure that it had not fried itself again and the power connector to the cut motor was disconnected. I guess I knocked it loose when I was installing the screw in that corner of the board.

I did install a nice fat 10 gauge grounding wire connecting the machines frame and DC system. Although, since there is nothing else damaged I believe that the damage to the X board was do to brush connector shorting out, but better safe than sorry. Thanks for all the help.
s

[Digitalwoodshop]

Good Job !!!!

"Commence The Happy Carving"

AL