Diagnosing the "E05-0303" Y axis stall

[Ton80]

I have a machine that is a little over 3 years old and last night the machine stalled and kicked out the error code in the title line. The troubleshooting guide states to look for a document about Y Axis Stalls but I haven't been able to locate the document on the CW site.

How would I go about trying to diagnose the problem on my own or would it be best to just call support and pay them the fee to open up a ticket? I have gone into the machine before to clean it out ( removed the top ) and installed the Rock chuck but haven't had any mechanical failures like this one yet.

[Digitalwoodshop]

3 year old machine and 3rd post.... What TOOK you so long.... Tons of post on this topic.... Be sure to read Tips and Tricks too....

SO your problem is a worn out Y Gear Box.... The 2 bearings for the big plastic gear are shot and they have worn the shaft so it tilts toward the center of the machine and jams...

Solution... Do you have a old Z Gear Box? That will work....

OR Buy the Replacement GEAR with Shaft from LHR and get some of the 5 mm x 11 mm x 5 mm bearings... http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/5mm/kit768 Either here or LOCAL....

Then Replace them EVERY 250 Cut Motor Hours AND replace the Cut Motor Brushes every 250 cut motor hours....

We all had to learn this....

WELCOME !!!!!

AL Who

[AskBud]

I have a machine that is a little over 3 years old and last night the machine stalled and kicked out the error code in the title line. The troubleshooting guide states to look for a document about Y Axis Stalls but I haven't been able to locate the document on the CW site.

How would I go about trying to diagnose the problem on my own or would it be best to just call support and pay them the fee to open up a ticket? I have gone into the machine before to clean it out ( removed the top ) and installed the Rock chuck but haven't had any mechanical failures like this one yet.Here is the link to the Trouble Shooting Guide:
http://www.carvewright.com/2010CWweb/service/Maintenence/Troubleshooting_Guide.pdf
AskBud

[Ton80]

Al, thanks for the info! I haven't had to change any parts yet and the odometer only has 146 hours of cut motor on time but I suppose those parts could be worn out because I did mostly V-carving work with my machine and maybe that is harder on the parts... No spare parts lying around so I will have to order them. Up to know, never really visited the forum that much except to lurk around a bit from time to time and absorb some of the info 8)

So, just to be clear, based on that error code the machine gave me the problem you describe is the problem and likely nothing else? I did read some other topics on this and it sounded like it could be a number of issues that cause Y axis stalls ( bad power lead, dust are two of the ones I remember reading ).

I wasn't in the basement when the machine stopped running but everything sounded normal. Even when it shut off and since I thought it was close to the end of the project I assumed it shut off normally until I got down and saw the pattern was only about 85% finished and there was an error code..

AskBud, thanks for the link. That however is the troubleshooting guide I read and it directed me to look for the Y axis stall document for further diagnosing... that is what I couldn't find. Upon reading it again it appears that the statement was directing me to read the page I just read, :confused: putting me into a never ending loop :mrgreen:

[Digitalwoodshop]

And look at the Carving, did the Carving SHIFT left or right.... A Dull Bit in hard wood will do that... I replaced a Carving Bit that has been running for a few years... It could not cut the Wood fast enough and it caused the Y Belt to skip a tooth or two... It finished up the Carving but OFF SET.... Then on the way back to home it hit the keypad wall before it expected and gave a stall.... A new bit fixed that... I had new bearings in the Y so I knew it was not that...

And at the very least if you are doing a un maned Carving.... Have a Smoke Detector Above the Machine and a Radio Shack Wireless Intercom to listen for trouble.... My Smoke Detector was the first hint my Flex Shaft was burning up..... I was cutting 2 inch deep slots in 4 x 4 posts the other day with my Plunge Router and a long 1/2 inch bit for mounting 1x6 signs. The bit hit a knot and out of the chips came 3 burning embers.... 2 on the sawdust covered work bench and one on the deck at my feet...... I quickly shut down and lucky on my outside deck was 3 tops from spray cans full of water..... I put out each ember.... This leads me to RE THINK Sawdust Dust Collection on the Plunge Router.... What IF I had a Dust Shoe on the router and it went in the BAG...... I am RE Thinking my Whole Dust Collector Ideas..... Could be Outside AWAY from the Shop.....


OK... Back to painting signs.... I painted from 7 PM last night until 3 AM... White Letters.... 13 signs... second coat on the first side.....


Turning off the Computer... Less Distractions..... More Sirius MUSIC.....


I will check in when I finish later....


AL

Good Luck,

AL

[Ton80]

Al, the carving did shift slightly to the right just prior to the machine shutting off the cut motor and giving me the error code. The bit is brand new ( one of the ones RJ sells ) so it I don't think it was responsible.. I suppose that would just leave the original diagnosis of the bearings.

That painting can be tedious work! Take a break every once and a while and don't worry about responding back on this.. get some rest ! Music is good and helps get in the zone!

Oh, and I do have a smoke detector in the area. Scary to think what could have happened if those embers went into a collection bag.

[AskBud]

Al, thanks for the info! ..........

AskBud, thanks for the link. That however is the troubleshooting guide I read and it directed me to look for the Y axis stall document for further diagnosing... that is what I couldn't find. Upon reading it again it appears that the statement was directing me to read the page I just read, :confused: putting me into a never ending loop :mrgreen: I just spoke with Alex, at LHR. The trouble shooting Guide give the initial steps to resolve these stalls on page 51. However, in both cases, the last step is to refer to special documents that, at present, are only available the LHR personnel. It is not stated to call LHR for for further assistance, but that is what is needed.
Sorry!
AskBud

[Ton80]

Thanks Bud! Gonna call them right now and ask for the document.

[Ton80]

OK, called and got Alex last night. We started up a carve and everything was running fine so he mentioned it could have been a power fluctuation or dust in the belt track. I am running the project again now and so far it's running just fine. I suspect it was probably the power fluctuation although I didn't notice any flickering of the lights at all and don't recall the machine making any sounds that would have indicated something ( quick change in the RPM of the cut motor )

I opened the machine lid and gave it a good vacuuming and there was some debris in the Y belt track but not enough to have caused an issue. I've been running a dust collector with the machine for the last couple of months so it's generally staying pretty clean in there. My carve time is only around 150 hours so I don't think it's an issue with worn gears or bearings but I will be checking those once the holiday season is over. As long as the machine is running I need to finish up a few projects that are on a schedule to be delivered by Christmas.

Thanks for all the help !

[Digitalwoodshop]

I gave the machine a good Vacuuming out... The Last Words of many who post that the Display is BLANK and the Machine is Un Responsive... CAUTION.... A Vacuum Cleaner Hose if not properly grounded can KILL the MACHINE.... The Static Electricity built up as the chips flow through the plastic hose cause Static that CAN and WILL Kill your machine.... Many Posts on this in the past....

As the Robot in "Lost in Space" would say at a time like this... "DANGER young Will Robbinson".... Danger..... As he sags killed by Static Electricity.

AL Who

[Ton80]

Understood, Al.

Could use a little additional help on this. I was watching the machine and it's getting close to the point where it experienced the Y Axis Stall. I am noticing that the z truck is vibrating up and down rapidly but barely noticeable to the eye. This seems to be causing the Y belt to become floppy.. Not sure if I'm seeing this correctly and not sure if I can video this since the lid is closed and the belt is hard to see. But, whatever is going on looks like it could cause a problem with the Y tracking..

The vibrating is happening as the cutter moves to toward the back of the machine opposite the keyboard but not present as it comes back to the keyboard side. The machine is idle now because I hit the Stop button but have not aborted the project yet. Does this sound like a potential pattern related problem or machine problem? I can post the pattern and/or mpc file if you need to see it.

Thanks!

[rickyz]

I was getting the same error on mine and found that the tension pulley at the other end of the y belt was totally worn out. wouldn't let the bit reach the bit plate. wound up replacing the belt and the tension pulley both and that got me back on track. tensioner lasted a good 650 hrs so can't complain about replacing a 2.00 part. just something else to look at. The belt also had a small break in it which didn't help also......

[Digitalwoodshop]

The Z head going up and down quickly while going back and fourth is normally, normal... As this is the cutting of the pattern....

As for the Y belt vibrating like it might be loose... That is a possibility.... The right side of the Y Belt has a Return Pulley that is held by a spring loaded screw from the end of the machine. You must remove the right side cover to see it... It looks like the one on top of the Z Motor. Then there is a screw on top of the bracket that also holds on the orange dust cover on the Cut Motor Wires. I have in the past loosened that screw then with my finger pushed the idle pulley away from the center of the machine and then snugged it down. TO make this screw adjustment I used a 90 degree screwdriver. One time I couldn't find it quick and I just drilled a hole in the top black plastic cover over the screw. This let me use a normal screwdriver. Now I said I have done it a few times... In the Early Years.... And each time my Y went back to Normal.... At least for a while..... Now the Cord Re Enforced Belt did not Stretch like I thought... The Slack really came from the Y Gear Box and the 5 mm x 11 mm x 5 mm bearings on the big gear going bad... This let the big plastic gear tilt toward the center of the machine. The Big Gear between the belt and clear cover of the gear box started to rub on the U shaped metal frame. This would cause a Stall OR let the Big Plastic Gear and the MOTOR Shaft Skip a tooth or two resulting in a off set in the carving.... AT this time had I replaced the little bearings then the shaft would not have worn thin.... But I waited.... See picture above with the word "THIN" in black.... That is most likely what is happening.... I replaced 3 Gear Boxes like this with other Z Boxes I had. I had first thought the 2 bearings were Babbitt bearings due to the Crud on my bearings... It was a better part of a year and a half before someone posted the pictures of the 2 bearings that I looked at the gear box still on my shelf next to my Computer and saw the 2 ball bearings..... So now you know WHY I preach to replace them at 250 Cut Hours with the Cut Motor Brushes... LHR sells the big gear and I purchased some to be able rebuild the gear boxes... I am in this for the LONG Haul.... Parts is PARTS...

So the sooner you replace the small bearings the better....

OTHER things that can cause a Stall is the Big Roller Bearings.... They get dust inside them and causes them to freeze up.... It is hard to see a frozen roller bearing... ALSO packed Sawdust builds up on the LOWER Y Rail..... The Round Part and the FLAT Shoulders on each side of the round drill rod. I keep a Brass small Wire Brush to scrub the lower rails from time to time... With some mineral Spirits.

AND I have replaced 2 of the Return Pulleys..... They were worn and WOBBLE....

Good Luck,

AL

[Ton80]

Thanks Al, that is a lot to absorb ;) If I am not the type of person that wants to start opening up motors and getting into the inside guts ( and I'm not ! ) would purchasing a new motor include all the parts you would be referring to above? If I start opening things up I will end up with a pile of parts and some will not find their way back home properly.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Did you post your location... You might have someone near you with Adventure in his nature....

AL

[Ton80]

Al,

I think my problem was simply too little tension on the Y belt. I was running another test now and watching the Y gears closely and I noticed when the cutter moved over and touched the bit flag, the belt on the Y track jumped and became quite slack. While that test was running the belt looked loose. I shut the machine down and pushed on the belt and I was able to touch the top half of the belt to the bottom half and also twist it around. Called LHR and was told that certainly sounded loose. I was able to tighten the belt up and there was a noticeable difference in the tension.

Running that project again to see what happens this time. Hopefully that was my issue and I am back in business.

[Digitalwoodshop]

THREE CLICKS.... IF you hear 2 or 3 Clicks when the Y is over at the Bit Flag, that is a sign of the Y Gear Box is bad and the Motor Shaft and Big Gear are slipping slightly.

Sounds like you just had a loose belt....

Good Job,

AL