Simple Rotary Jig Modification

[bergerud]

Seems to me that if the rotary jig were to have rails on the bottom board for the dowel to roll on, a few problems would be solved. There would be clearance for dowels which are not perfectly round as well as clearance for dust between the dowel and the bottom board. (One would have to flip the bottom board over onto the rails or use a different board for the measurement process and the jig would sit a little higher.)

It would be an easy experiment to add two sand paper rails to the bottom board. Then make a rough 2 inch diameter hexagonal or octagonal cross section dowel on a table or band saw. The ends of the dowel that roll on the rails can be made circular with a 2 inch I.D.hole saw. Now either carve it circular or just carve it.

Further, if one made a set of precise 2 inch diameter "driver" wheels for each end to be part of the jig, more problems would be solved. The circumference of all projects would be consistent reducing the trial and error involved in pattern length. The need for precise dowels would be eliminated. The only requirement would be that the ends which attach to the driving wheels be cut square.

(Maybe different height rail sets would be a way to design a jig for variable diameter dowels.)

[Icutone2]

What a bought cutting slots in the left & right sides of center to allow vacuum areas?
Just a thought.
Lee

[edzbaker]

Rotary Jig Owners PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO Item #8 in the Rotary Accessory Instruction Manual. Titled "IMPORTANT" ,,,,there is a reason for that being in there....

Ed

[Icutone2]

What would that be, I am at work and do not have it here.
Lee

[edzbaker]

Icutone2, Do not move the flat panel, as was suggested in the beginning of this thread.

[Icutone2]

OK Ed, but could you still make slots in the flat bottom board to allow the vacuum to extract the stringy chips from the machine. Note: leaving the sides and the middle section intact for tracking and board measuring.
Lee

[edzbaker]

Lee. I think you would be OK making slots, as long as you didn't weaken the flat panel to a point that it would break. I'm guessing you are using a "DownDraft" dust removal system.
I wouldn'tget too close to the edges or ends. Keep in mind that the Combined pressure of the TWO pressure rollers is now centered between the tracking belts.

As Always, give me a shout if I can assist in any way...

Ed

[bergerud]

If you are afraid if a brass roller tracking error, the flat panel does not have to be moved. The rails can simply be added after the measurement procedure at the same time as the jig is installed. This is a trivial detail and is not a reason to reject the idea. If you think about it, adding rails is a great idea which is as simple as laying down two strips of wood to roll the ends of the dowel on. It means that imprecise dowels can be made precise on your jig or they can be carved without needing to be made precise. There is no need to buy dowels, lathes, or make router jigs. Your jig can do it all!

I sense that you are or have been offended by me. If I have offended you, I am sorry.

[mtylerfl]

I sense that you are or have been offended by me. If I have offended you, I am sorry.

Hello,

I don't think anyone was offended - it's always interesting to read your "brainstorming" posts and often helps present a fresh perspective of thinking. (Which I desperately need at times!)

[edzbaker]

bergerud, Why would I be offended ?
My post was directed to "Rotary Jig Owners", stating that your suggestion in the first post should not be followed. I wouldn't want to see owners of the Rotary Jig make damaging modifications that are suggested by Anyone that has not looked at all of the jig. Like I have said before, there is more to the jig than you can see in a photo.
I agree with what Michael said, Brain-storming is good, but one needs to fully understand a product and all of it's functions before making suggestions that it's owners vary from the instructions manual written specifically for that item..

[CarverJerry]

When I buy this fixture (Jig) am I going to have to update my designer software? I'm running 1.177 and it seems to run really great, just hate the idea of updating and then finding out they don't have all the bugs worked out of it yet. Just wondering.

CJ

[Digitalwoodshop]

I see the Caution that is expressed here and understand the reason for it...

Here is another thought for the Users thinking outside the BOX...

A Down Draft DUST collection system could be made.... You build a Hollow BOX of Wood to REPLACE the BOTTOM BOARD making it strong in all the areas under pressure and a Hollow OPEN CENTER Slot with a 4 inch Dust Collector hooked to the END of it.... I other words.... A Dust Collector SLED Hood Board that replaces the bottom Driver Board that moves under the dowel being cut... A sliding lid for the open slot could be made for each end of the open slot that never goes into the machine and touches the rollers for increased vacuum. Wipers at an angle could be fashioned to like a snow plow direct the dust on the sides of the dust collector sled to the center.... Just to wet the "Idea" Thread.... And something on the ends to make the Board Sensor Happy...

AL

[edzbaker]

Jerry, I have tested the Newest firmware in every way I can think of.. It is good. It was made specifically to fix the 1.77 errors. Upgrade and you will be fine. I do know that 1.177 had many errors with boards over 14 inches wide. (and, The Jig is over 14" wide)

Ed

[CarverJerry]

Ok, thanks for the heads up. I'll give it a shot...

CJ

[edzbaker]

You can make a simple EFFECTIVE dust collection for the Rotary Jig using thin Plywood. Load the Rotary Jig into your CW with round stock installed, and the head cranked all the way down. Lay a piece of cardboard over the Back half of the Flat Panel (a Temporary Spacer). Cut a piece of thin plywood 14" wide by 14" long. Lay it on the cardboard, sliding it in until it almost touches the Round stock. Cut another piece of thin plywood 14" wide by 13 3/4 long. This piece will be installed to within 1/4 inch of the Round stock at the top.
Depending on the thickness of the plywood used, you need two 3/4" thick spacers 12" long, inside the Rotary Jig side rails to connect these two pieces of plywood to. Like building a box inside the Jig. Now You need another 3/4" thick spacer to close the outside of this "Box". Cut a hole in the top of the Box where it extends out past your rotary jig, to accept your DC hose. Secure the Box to the inside of your jig, then remove the cardboard spacer.

See the picture of a paper mock-up. I will post real pictures this weekend.

Ed

[bergerud]

The reason I thought you were offended Ed was that instead of considering the merit of the rail idea you threw out a red herring. There are many ways to introduce the rails without fouling up the measurement procedure and yet you decided to focus on a trivial detail instead of the main point of the post. Now you are still avoiding the main point of the post and implying that the jig is too complicated for me to understand.

So yes, I think you are offended by me suggesting that your jig may be improved. I know that you have been working hard to make dowels available to your customers, and with rails, this service may no longer be required. You are probably pissed off with my interference. I can understand this and, in fact, I have tried to keep quiet with my ideas up to now. With everyone trying so hard to machine dowels, it just seemed to me that the rails were the answer and I had to come out of the closet.

Let me outline again what I think would be a basic experiment to test the rails and carve a non machined dowel:

First, take a 2X2 and, on a table saw or band saw, cut off the corners to make an octagonal cylinder. Now with a 2 1/4 inch hole saw, simultaneously make the pin holes and 2 inch round ends on the dowel. The procedure now proceeds as normal until inserting the jig. As the jig is inserted into the machine, the rails, which are just strips of wood, are inserted under the circular ends of the dowel and keep the octagonal part above the bottom panel. The jig will sit a little higher and there will be a little more wood to carve on the dowel corners. As far as I can see this should work just fine but, of course, it has to be tested.

I honestly thought Ed, that you would see the rails as obvious and be happy to improve your jig. Anyway, the idea is now out there so there is no way to avoid it. It would be nice if you could test it and let us know what you really think.

[edzbaker]

bergerud, I have not been offended, nor have I been working to sell dowels to ANY customers. As a matter of fact I haven't sold ANY dowels to any jig owner. My dowels have more value If I use them, than if I sold them.
I have worked toward geting a supplier for jig owners, and that wound up being Bayerwood.com, of which I have absolutely no affiliation.
I have a full time, well paying job. I only do this as a hobby. Yes, It's nice if a tool pays for itself, but it's not a requirement.

As far as modifying the jig, I have no intention of doing so. The existing Jig was tested and approved by LHR. I have a contract with LHR. I couldn't change it if I wanted to. (Which I don't) It took months of testing by LHR to get this jig approved. That is the point I believe you are missing.

Thank you for your suggestions ! but I will pass on them for now.

Ed

[edzbaker]

AL, The Box type Flat Panel would work, but remember, changing the thickness of the flat panel would require the same dimensional changes to be made to the side rails of the jig.

Ed

I have added pictures of the dust collection add-on that I posted last night. It is Simple, Effective, Cheap, and easy to make. read post #15 above. This one has a hole for a 3 inch hose, and you can see it would be just as easy to use a 4 inch hose. The Plywood I used is Luan ?? I'm not sure of the spelling, but it is THIN, and real cheap.

Keep in mind that if you add more than a hole (Like a hose connector) you may have to load the Rotary Jig from the rear of your machine.


Ed

[bergerud]

I have, as I am sure others have, thought of how to make a rotary jig. It has been on my list of things to design ever since I saw the CO2 racer jig years ago. Ed Baker’s jig is a very cool design which is ingeniously simple. I had not imagined that a jig could be so simple. I had in mind a much more complicated jig. For my own use, Ed’s jig is too simple, I want a more versatile jig that:



can handle a variety of dowel sizes – both length and diameter
can handle rough cut wood and/or make its own dowels
can stay installed in the machine without process interruption
can measure the dowel directly as if measuring a board
can function with the current hardware and software


This seems like a real design challenge. Do you guys think such a jig is even possible? Can you think of any other features that the ideal rotary jig should have?

[James RS]

I have, as I am sure others have, thought of how to make a rotary jig. It has been on my list of things to design ever since I saw the CO2 racer jig years ago. Ed Baker’s jig is a very cool design which is ingeniously simple. I had not imagined that a jig could be so simple. I had in mind a much more complicated jig. For my own use, Ed’s jig is too simple, I want a more versatile jig that:



can handle a variety of dowel sizes – both length and diameter
can handle rough cut wood and/or make its own dowels
can stay installed in the machine without process interruption
can measure the dowel directly as if measuring a board
can function with the current hardware and software


This seems like a real design challenge. Do you guys think such a jig is even possible? Can you think of any other features that the ideal rotary jig should have?

I can't think of a way,but I like what I've seen with Ed's jig.

[ktjwilliams]

Dan,,, I know if anyone is gonna get all that in one jig,,, it will most likely be U... I enjoy your mind ... Email me with info on what UR working on,, let me see if I have 2 cents to put in ....

Kevin

[prof]

Ed, Looking at the pictures and reading the description, there is one thing I don't understand. Won't the dust collector rest on the board the dowel is on, thus move or worse cause the bottom board not to move? I am sure I am missing something. Or is the dust collector mounted to the upper jig?

BTW: I tried the jig out today and it worked great. Thank you very much for the advice.

Keith

[edzbaker]

Keith, The Dust collector that I posted is attached to the upper part of the jig. It is extremly simple and cheap to build. I have made and tested one to prove it works perfectly.

Thanks for the compliment on the Jig.

Anytime I can help, don't hesitate to give me a shout.

Ed baker