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bergerud
10-16-2011, 06:16 PM
I thought I would try to make a cyclone for the Dust Cap. I get tired of having to shake out the filter in my micro vac which powers the Dust Cap. As an experiment, I carved a spiral ramp which fits into the end of a 1 liter pop bottle. Stupid how well it works! The bottle, however, is a little too tapered and I found that if no dust was moving through, some dust would stay and just spin around. I added a spiral wire (plastic covered coat hanger) and now it swirls clear. Check out the youtube video. I was vacuuming up dust (with big chunks) out of a bucket at a rate much higher than would come from the Dust Cap. If you want to play with this, I have included the ramp mpc. You will have to drill a hole for the intake. Use a drill press, a Forstner or similar bit, and a vise to hold it angled so the hole is parallel to the ramp. I used 3/4 which leaves little wood. The ramp is supposed to be a press fit in the pop bottle. You may have to tweak (or sand) the circle diameter. (I used a 3/16 bit for the circle cuts. You could change to 1/8 if you do not have a 3/16. You will have finish the cut out by hand as it does not cut all the way through.)

(Note that is a Canada Dry bottle. I may try some other bottles. One with swirls maybe.)

I am happy, no dust maintenance until that big bottle fills up! (The vacuum turns on and of automatically with the cut motor.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFoXC7b7SJc

lawrence
10-16-2011, 06:22 PM
Now THAT's a cool setup-- well done!

Thanks so much for taking the time to share your technique without. The dust cap is very much on my to-do list

Lawrence

RogerB
10-16-2011, 06:25 PM
wow that looks like a good way to keep things clean.

chkorte
10-16-2011, 07:21 PM
I RAN ACROSS A DESIGN FOR A SEPERATOR WITH CYCLONIC ACTION FOR A DUST COLLECTER FOR A 30 GALLON TRASH CAN. THE GUY DESIGNED IT FOR USE WITH HIS SHOP VAC BUT SOMEONE MODIFIED IT FOR USE WITH A DUST COLLECTER. I BUILT IT USING A 20 GALLON CARDBOARD BARREL. HIS ORIGINAL DESIGN USED A PLYWOOD TOP MADE TO FIT THE TRASH CAN BUT SOMEONE MADE ONE USING THE TRASH CAN LID. IíM HAPPY WITH HOW MINE IS PERFORMING. THE FIRST WEB SITE LINK IS TO THE ORIGINAL DESIGN. THE SECOND LINK IS TO THE MODIFIED DESIGN.

http://www.cgallery.com/jpthien/cy.htm

http://www.zenreich.com/ZenWeb/shop/dustcollector.htm

henry1
10-16-2011, 07:56 PM
I was waiting to post but you can go here and see the cyclone wor,k also I have one works like a charm
http://www.oneida-air.com/shoppingcart.asp
Henry

ktjwilliams
10-16-2011, 10:36 PM
Great... U just LUV to tinker !! I like all UR ideas so far, especially the the ER spindles.. Keep up the good work... LOL ....

DickB
10-27-2011, 04:02 PM
Funny - I just picked up the same vac from Walmart this afternoon, not realizing it is the one that you have been using. I decided that I need a cyclone separator before I even turned it on, and came looking here, then saw the vac.

Are you doing anything to ground your system?

bergerud
10-27-2011, 05:23 PM
No, I have not done anything to ground my system. I was going to replace the power wire with a new wire which has the third ground prong. I am not sure it is even needed. I do not think that much of a charge builds up. It is not like the 4 inch hoses with the 800 cfm airflow. Mind you, I live in a humid rain forest by the sea. Someone in the dry south might have more of a problem with static than I do.

I just bought that small vacuum as well. I have not used it much yet. The idea is to turn it into all filter and let the cyclone deal with the dust. If you want to carve my cyclone top, I suggest you experiment first to get the large radius right for your bottle before you carve it. A press fit is nice.

DickB
10-27-2011, 06:53 PM
Great minds think alike! I just bought this funnel with a 4-1/2" opening, and was stretching your mpc to fit, and thought I'd better cut a test piece first before I do all that carving!
48447

I currently have my machine grounded to my dust collector, which is grounded through the third prong on it. It gets very dry indoors in winter here, even with a humidifier on the HVAC system.

bergerud
10-27-2011, 09:16 PM
I think your funnel may be too the tapered. Look at the geometry of the Dust Deputy. The dust has to fall under gravity as it swirls around. If the taper is too much, the dust will keep spinning around and not fall. My bottle is too tapered and that is why I added the spiral wire. With the funnel, you will not be able to see what is going on. You may also need the wire. (A cool feature of the pop bottle is that it gets a static charge and so the really fine dust sticks to it until the larger dust comes along and sweeps it away.)

DickB
10-28-2011, 07:29 PM
I looked at Bill Pentz' web site and design for a cyclone separator for vacuums. He uses a 6" diameter cyclone at the top. My funnel is 4-3/4" diameter at the top. If I scale his dimensions down to mine, the funnel that I have, cut off at about 8", is very close to his ideal dimensions for a shorter cyclone. So I am going to make basically his design but scaled down a bit.
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

bergerud
10-28-2011, 07:48 PM
But your funnel is no fun! You will not be able to see it working. I do not think scaling really applies. There are many parameters, velocity probably the most important. Maybe you could have a clear cylinder above the funnel.

On another note, I just saw a rotozip dust kit. Might make good parts for others to hook up a dust cap.

http://www.amazon.com/Rotozip-DM5-Dust-Management-Kit/sim/B003BIFMII/2

DickB
10-28-2011, 07:55 PM
Bill says his design does scale well. It sounds like he started with large systems 8' tall but says in his description (there is a lot of text to read!) that smaller 6" diameter systems for vacuums were proven by the medical community to work well. I agree it would be fun to see it working and a clear cylinder at least would be a way to do that, but I want to get something going so I will probably find a piece of 5" diameter PVC or metal duct at Ace tomorrow and go with that.

DickB
10-29-2011, 08:13 PM
Here's what I came up with. I bought the funnel for $1.97, but the rest of the stuff came from around the house. The clear cylinder was a CD case and is a near-perfect fit, so now I will be able to see the vortex action (I hope!). The joining ring makes a smooth inside transition from the cylinder to the funnel. The parts press-fit together, but will be held tight and to a plastic pail lid with three sections of threaded rod.
48555 48556

bergerud
10-29-2011, 08:42 PM
Wow. That looks great. You are having too much fun. (Do you really want the output pipe so long?) Give us a video after you try it.

mtylerfl
10-29-2011, 08:44 PM
Here's what I came up with. I bought the funnel for $1.97, but the rest of the stuff came from around the house. The clear cylinder was a CD case and is a near-perfect fit, so now I will be able to see the vortex action (I hope!). The joining ring makes a smooth inside transition from the cylinder to the funnel. The parts press-fit together, but will be held tight and to a plastic pail lid with three sections of threaded rod.


That's pretty cool! Now, if we could get Doug Haffner to "trick it out" with some of his creative finishes, rivets and coils, that would be really neat!

DickB
10-29-2011, 08:48 PM
Thanks. Yes, it's fun. You're right; the output pipe is too long if I scale to Bill Pentz's plans. I had just hacked of a section of central vacuum pipe to get diameter measurements and didn't really pay attention to length, so I need to trim it down. Sadly, I have no plastic bucket, so I will have to go buy one before I try this out.

DickB
10-30-2011, 05:28 PM
Here it is in action. Go to full screen for a better view. You can't really see from the video that the dust and shavings are hugging the side of the CD case and funnel, and the exhaust air stream is clear.
48578


http://youtu.be/0ZdDv72RXOY

bergerud
10-30-2011, 11:05 PM
Looks good. A lot of parts! If you notice that dust spins and does not fall, try the spiral wire trick. (I still think that exhaust could be shorter.)

mcQ
04-17-2012, 07:29 AM
For those that would rather purchase a cyclone, Grizzly / Shop Fox have a separator that works very well that sits on a 30 gallon metal trash can.

http://cdn0.grizzly.com/pics/jpeg500/g/g3376.jpg

James RS
04-17-2012, 03:49 PM
I've seen these cyclones on Lumberjocks and Youtube

James RS
04-17-2012, 03:51 PM
Looks good. A lot of parts! If you notice that dust spins and does not fall, try the spiral wire trick. (I still think that exhaust could be shorter.)

bergerud, I have a question on your dust collector around the chuck, what is it exactly? does it work well?

James RS
04-17-2012, 05:43 PM
Here's a cyclone built for 12.00 found over on Lumberjocks http://lumberjocks.com/projects/64698

bergerud
04-17-2012, 08:32 PM
bergerud, I have a question on your dust collector around the chuck, what is it exactly? does it work well?

If you mean my dust collector I call the Dust Cap, there are a few threads on the designing and making of it. It works very well and it only requires the smallest of vacuums. I would say it gets better than 99.9% of the chips, whether they be wood, cast acrylic, or even metal. (There are some cases for example, edge routing, where chips do get away.) The vacuum turns off and on automatically and, with the cyclone, I never even think about dust anymore. My machine is always spotless.

I do not know how well it would work with the Carvetight chuck. I was hoping someone would make it and test it with the Carvetight, but know one did. I have a nice setup with an ER16 spindle. The combination of ER spindle and Dust Cap really work well together.

If you want to see more about the Dust Cap, (including the files to make it), just go back through the Dust Cap threads. Below is an old video carving acrylic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEuxLaUDw-c

DickB
04-18-2012, 10:01 AM
bergerud, you know that I didn't make your exact dust cap, but I did make one that was very similar. I found that the Carvetight spindle, with the recommended longer screw and additional washer, leaves too little room to make a dust cap work. Using the original screw and one washer, I was able to get it to fit, but just barely. However there is a noticeable improvement in noise and runout with the longer screw and washer. I just could not get a dist cap to fit with that configuration.

bergerud
04-18-2012, 11:25 AM
I remember Dick. I have a friend with a CT now. I may experiment with it. I thought that instead of adding a longer bolt and lock washers, why not just balance it properly by removing some metal from the other side? I may even be able to get the bolt head inside. I wish I also had a Rock to try.

DickB
04-18-2012, 01:32 PM
That sounds like a good approach.

James RS
04-19-2012, 04:31 PM
I found the thread, interesting work. I saw you carving a smaller board, how does it work on wider boards.
I ask because the way the vac hose was routed.Forgot to include, I'm using a Rock Chuck




If you mean my dust collector I call the Dust Cap, there are a few threads on the designing and making of it. It works very well and it only requires the smallest of vacuums. I would say it gets better than 99.9% of the chips, whether they be wood, cast acrylic, or even metal. (There are some cases for example, edge routing, where chips do get away.) The vacuum turns off and on automatically and, with the cyclone, I never even think about dust anymore. My machine is always spotless.

I do not know how well it would work with the Carvetight chuck. I was hoping someone would make it and test it with the Carvetight, but know one did. I have a nice setup with an ER16 spindle. The combination of ER spindle and Dust Cap really work well together.

If you want to see more about the Dust Cap, (including the files to make it), just go back through the Dust Cap threads. Below is an old video carving acrylic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEuxLaUDw-c

JLT
01-27-2013, 04:30 PM
Realize this is a dated thread, but finally got around to building a cyclone today. Created a modified version of the cyclone cap, essentially carving two (2) halves in 3/4" plywood and gluing them together. My motivation was to incorporate a half cylinder for the intake on each half of the carve, but unfortunately wasn't able to get designer to cooperate in forming a properly shaped half cylinder. So resorted to a 1" forstner bit which was a pain...

Used a 5 gal water jug (bought at Walmart for ~$12) for collecting the dust and the top of a 2 liter sprite bottle for the cyclone for want of anything else I could find. Despite the sprite bottle buckling under the vacuum during the carve, and forming a hideous suboptimal funnel, the dust basically spun in circles in the cone, and eventually "snowed" down into the 5 gal jug. (If I put my hand under the shoe to create suction, the vacuum was strong enough to create a small buckle in the 5 gal jug in one spot.) Examining the minivac after the ~30 min carve revealed very little dust actually making it to the vac. So the shape of the cone is apparently fairly forgiving. I subsequently added a coiled coat hanger to the cone, but the sprite bottle top still buckles under unloaded vacuum. Next tact is to spring load the coat hanger, providing some re-enforcement. If that fails, will hunt for a stronger cone, although if the vacuum is strong enough to put a small buckle in the 5 gal jug, am not sure if I'll find anything suitable for the cone...

bergerud
01-27-2013, 04:41 PM
My smaller diameter bottle was just barely able to withstand the vacuum. Maybe try part of another bottle inside (or outside) the bottle for support.

JLT
02-08-2013, 06:45 PM
My smaller diameter bottle was just barely able to withstand the vacuum. Maybe try part of another bottle inside (or outside) the bottle for support.

Wife was throwing away a Cardini Caesar dressing bottle which is made of thicker plastic, and although not a perfectly shaped cone, decided to try to convert it into a cyclone. After cutting off the bottom of the plastic bottle, I sized up the cyclone cap to fit the opening, and tried it out. The dust doesn't shoot down into the dust collection jug like a normal cyclone, but instead slowly settles out of the high speed spin it rides in. The thicker Cardini bottle doesn't buckle under the vacuum either, so it retains it shape. The mini vac bag was clean after a 35 min test carve, but will keep an eye on it for the next few extended carves to ensure that the dust is settling in the jug and not passing through to the mini vac. I might slip in a circular plate within the cyclone above the spin zone, in an attempt to turn it into a Thien cyclone. Video of my dust collection system in action can be seen at:

http://youtu.be/5Elzh1MUh9w
(http://youtu.be/5Elzh1MUh9w)
Jon

bergerud
02-08-2013, 07:23 PM
Cool. Even my pop bottle with the nice taper did the same thing. The dust would spin and not drop. That was why I put a spiral coat hanger in the bottle. Next time I am in the grocery store, I am going to take a closer look at what other options there are! Could be all we need is a taller bottle that can handle the vacuum.