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Ropdoc
10-05-2011, 03:50 PM
47802

Would people be interested in purchased drawings or plans that I make of projects? Hopefully the image above is viewable as an example. Or you could give me dimensions of a project and I could create plans for you. I can show more examples if needed. But I would not even know what to sell them for. But I try and include cut list and stuff.

Thank you for your advice.
Dave

cnsranch
10-06-2011, 09:39 AM
47802

Would people be interested in purchased drawings or plans that I make of projects?
Dave

I'm sure there a re some folks who could use that.......just make sure they're your original designs.

Ropdoc
10-07-2011, 02:03 PM
Please bear with me here. If I figure how someone built something and I create a drawing of that is that concidered my original. Since I created the drawing?

dbfletcher
10-07-2011, 02:16 PM
I would probably say "no". If I make a 3-d model of a coke bottle, i surely cant call it an original. We live in a very litigious society.

Digitalwoodshop
10-07-2011, 03:18 PM
See the Boy Scout Post from last week.... Enough said.... with so many free patterns in wood magazines, it's going to be a hard sell. And the magazines have the How too, material cut list and pictures.

I see your Material and Cut List on the bottom right.

What software are you using to make the drawings? Is Anderson Drafting Service you?

AL

Ropdoc
10-09-2011, 08:56 PM
Thank you, I was just hoping to make some money.

The software I use is Solidworks and yes Anderson drafting is me. Unofficially. Again, I was looking for a way to make money. Got bills to pay and trying to keep a house.

Digitalwoodshop
10-10-2011, 10:34 AM
Small Wooden Signs might be a hit in your part of the country... I lived in San Diego for 13 years.... It is the SPENDING season in Julian, CA.... The Leaves will be turning and the tourist flocking to buy Christmas Stuff like Dept 56 Ceramic Houses and stuff like that... Julian is a big Apple Pie Tourist Place... Apple Theme stuff would really help you... Or a place like Slovang, CA... Lots of places looking for something the OTHER stores don't have.... Having a CW is like having a license to print MONEY..... My shop uses the CW for Fire Dept stuff and the CW touches about everything I make.... All $14K plus this year and I have a pile of work lined up.... The trick is finding a market for what you can make....

Wine Racks.... My pattern is in the pattern thread. Started out making Quilt Racks... Then a guy said, can you turn the rails points up to store CD's... and the CD rack was born... Then I was going to a Wine Show and make trays to hold the bottles then stumbled on the idea of using a 3 inch sander to cut out for the bottles and the wine rack was born.... I make them in 3 and 4 row in any length to fit the space then started doing the 2 row small counter top versions.... I bet that would help.... I use the 1.25 x 1.25 wooden Blasters for the shelves. At $1.25 a foot it is expensive but it works GREAT.... With my Pin version you could make the sides with different stuff and make rail sets in Shrink Wrap. Let them put it together for easy shipping...

Then there are Wood clocks in the Wine or Apple theme....

The last 2 pictures from 2008 show my prime in the Tourist stuff... It has been all down hill from there in this area and my Fire Market has taken off so I have the tourist stuff on hold.

I am sure you could make some quick money with the CA Tourist Shops.... Apples and Wine.... that is the Ticket....

People stand on the street watching a apple pie being made... It is just a Eye Catcher.... and it opens the Wallets....

It is just finding a niche... Check out this video... A Street Vendor..... Some Honey, Corn Starch, Nut Fillings, fancy boxes and a booth.... http://www.dump.com/2011/09/17/how-to-create-16000-honey-strings-in-two-minutes-video/

And for a novelty wood item to make and sell..... Make an apple with the cuts in it.... http://www.dump.com/2011/09/29/impossible-nail-through-wood-trick-video/

Good Luck,

AL

easybuilt
10-10-2011, 11:02 AM
Al is right, I was raised in Julian, CA and was down there this year for my 40th class reunion. The town was filled with tourists looking to buy. There are so many places you can small plaques, cribbage boards, wine racks and other items for gift ideas. If you can create it yourself someone will buy it and keep trying new ideas.

Digitalwoodshop
10-10-2011, 02:35 PM
With this machine we can make so much stuff... I had thought of making Julian Stuff and having my EX still in San Diego sell it for me...

I was looking in U Line packing materials for 2 sizes of White 2 inch thick boxes to display the clocks in... Something tied down so the Hour Hands don't get damaged. I have Shrink Wrap and I use my Heat Press to shrink the stuff.

I believe the investment in White display Boxes is the trick to doing the Clocks Retail... NO damage and stack easy....

Along the same line... A Vinyl Plotter is one of the fastest payback items... Many shops say they pay for themselves over and over every year. Simple window artwork to 18 x 24 Corplast Signs.... Get one with a photo eye and you can print stickers and use the plotter to cut them out.... That is making it sound easy.... But it is possible.....

I wish I had known about the Julian Gold Mines I have seen since on TV.... Worked 4 days on and 3 days off then 3 days on with Sony.... Many of the guys went to the Indian Casinos on the off days.... There were 3 New Cars in the Sony lot from guys that won them at the Casinos....

AL

Ropdoc
10-10-2011, 02:36 PM
I am not very fast. How long does it take you to make things? Do you spend all year getting ready for a weekend or week? Thank you all so much for your advice.

Ike
10-10-2011, 05:33 PM
I thought I would give you some advice, I have a portable sign shop and travel to county fairs in Northern Ca. The problem is the market is flooded with sign makers and wannabes! So I would follow Al's advice and stick with craft fairs. I say that because you mentioned just a weekend or week? In the Southern Ca. area there are several big county fairs and I guarantee you can not get into making signs! There is a company and a copy wannabes that have the market corner. They make the same boring one letter style hand routed signs! I have a combination of hand routed with several fonts and the use of the CW. ( www.rcwoodworksonline.com) I can make almost 4 signs to one from the CW!

I have a 7' by 12' trailer self contained to make the the sign on the spot which has been very expensive over the years! I am telling you this in case you think you can set up a canopy and tables and make signs on the spot! It can work if you made natural signs just carve the signs and let the customer paint and finish the sign. Because with painting them the fastest drying is a rattle can and in an open area, well it won't work! Using water based paint brushed in takes too long and oil again will smell! Then in an open area you need to address dust issue. Jason(LRW) uses a great method for this! He sands a board( I use and recommend redwood) and covers with contact paper, the paints and removes contact paper and it is ready to go! It would work for natural signs also.

Okay that said, it doesn't have to take all year for one weekend! My dad makes wine barrel fountains and redwood wishing wells and planters etc. He schedule his shows for the year and if he has a month before his first he takes that time to make as many products as he can before the event. He tries to make more then needed to replace any sold products. The ideal is to make as many items to sell as time will allow. My dad will not always have time to work on his products because the lawn needs mowed, deck needs attention, mom's chore list etc.!

You have so many opportunities in So. Ca. the big flea market near lake Perris, tourist towns like Julian etc. A good source for info is Craft Master News, it covers all of the western states craft fairs county fairs etc. Julian would be great for wine racks if I recall there are a few vineyards in the area.

The key is finding something that will sell and is easy for you to do by hand and or with the CW. My dad does well with wine barrel fountains and the small planter items. He found the plans in a craft supply magazine. I suggest you do so serious research for each event to see what is popular. If it is a garlic festival have a some items with garlic themes say kitchen plaques with a catchy saying! Look for hand crafted events rather then a chili cook off or rib cook off. With food events people come to spend money on food and very little on other products! Now this is not always the case so the research is important! Most events will have food vendors so like I said do some research. My dad took his products to an Italian festival and did not make booth fee! So serious food themed events should be checked thoroughly! Never ask the promoters how the event is they will always tell it is Great! They want to sell booth spaces!


In the Craft Master News other vendors will say if the event good or bad. Again take it with a grain of salt they may be selling a product nobody wants! So see what they are selling! Then you can't really judge an event the first year. I go at least 2 years sometimes 3, once you do a few events you learn what are bad spots. Sometimes you get a great spot the first year at a event and do well the first 2 years then the 3rd not so good. Don't panic and ask to be moved! You begin to gain a reputation and if you move even within a few feet people will think you are not there! Believe me I have been to a fair that I used to make $4000.00 each year and a new fair manager took over and moved me up 3 spaces and I lost $2000.00 because people are too lazy yo look for you! Then on the other hand if it is the first year and you break even or lose money drop that event like a hot potato!

So you need to determine what product you want to make that does not take more time to make then what you can sell it for. Don't under sell yourself or over price your self! So find a product that the material cost and the time will allow you to make a profit! With signs very profitable 8' redwood board 1" by 12" cost me about $25.00. With it I can make 4 signs at $75.00 each or 2 48" signs at $250.00 each! Time for a 24" sign if hand routed 1 hour total including finish = $75.00 an hour! 48" sign about 2 hours from start to finish $150.00 an hour!

Also if this becomes a business,unless you use you real last name you will need a fictitious business name . That is just applying for it with your city and running an ad in the local paper for a few weeks to see if the name is taken. Then you will need to contact the board of equalization for a resale license to charge tax! It also will allow you to buy material tax free for your products.

If you just want to make a few extra bucks without going into full blown business then try local events in your area. Some schools have craft fairs, try contacting the Chamber of Commerce to find out about events like an apple festival or where I live they have an event called Paul Bunyan days or Rails to Trails that has a chili cook off and hand rail road cart races and a marathon along with craft vendors that does really well! Not to mention a couple Christmas craft fairs! That is your best bet coming up Christmas craft fairs make some easy products that will not cost a lot to make and easy to sell!

Okay I wrote another book, but I hope I addressed at one of your questions!

Ike

Digitalwoodshop
10-10-2011, 06:03 PM
Again, some GREAT Advice from the Master... Ike even helped me get my prices right a few years ago....

The thing with Julian is to go on a weekday and check it out. Take samples and talk to the Stores.... They may want a Exclusive from you so they are not in a price war with other stores.... If you made some Julian Clocks or even things that would go into a kitchen... Apple Napkin Holders, Trivets, Bless this Pie signs... Add the Julian Name and you have a HIT......


I bet the 18 inch high wine racks for the table top would sell....

I like to use Centerline Text as much as possible... I use Latex Paint and a brush.... Slop it in the letters and clean them out... Let it dry and sand it flush... Then I stain it with oak and use a Air Gun to blow the excess stain out of the letters. I do the same with brushed on Poly.... Air Blow out the letters..... Wear a Quality Face Mask.


AL

TerryT
10-10-2011, 06:23 PM
I agree. Ike gave you the whole story and he's right on.

Ike
10-10-2011, 10:23 PM
Thanks Al and Terry! Al great ideal with slopping in the paint, who told you about that! ;)

Ike

Digitalwoodshop
10-11-2011, 02:15 PM
Thanks Al and Terry! Al great ideal with slopping in the paint, who told you about that! ;)

Ike

Yes, another IKE First..... I had done some Wood Clocks in 2007 and used spray paint to paint the letters and the thin paint wicked up the edges of all my text.... Looked like poop.... I asked Ike and he shared his secret..... Latex and slop it in and clean it out... Ike still uses spray but with the Redwood no wicking due to the dense wood.

Thanks,

AL

Pictures and the sliding jig to make the wine rack rails.

Ike
10-11-2011, 03:09 PM
Yes, another IKE First..... I had done some Wood Clocks in 2007 and used spray paint to paint the letters and the thin paint wicked up the edges of all my text.... Looked like poop.... I asked Ike and he shared his secret..... Latex and slop it in and clean it out... Ike still uses spray but with the Redwood no wicking due to the dense wood.

Thanks,

AL

Pictures and the sliding jig to make the wine rack rails.

Lol I was just messing with you! I hardly came up with the method I learned it from my uncle when I worked for him! I still use spray paint for other material, but even with redwood lighter paint does not do well! If I have a sign with recessed white lettering I always use exterior latex paint!

I have tried white spray, but it took several coats and as you described it looked like poop! One thing with black spray and redwood it will bleed around the letters. That is where the torch comes in handy and will hide the bleeding. Sanding will work, but it usually ends up in taking too much material!

Still back to Ropdoc it is possible to make money at craft fairs! I was up in sells this year for my fairs, but my dad helped me and what extra money I made went to him! Don't get me wrong just being with him this summer was well worth it! But I am seeking employment at a local school, I applied for 2 positions. A night time custodian part-time and the other is a librarian full time. So if I get the full-time position I will be ending my sign route! I may keep it with the part-time.

That is why I suggest really didn't a thorough research and try as close to home as possible! I need to sit down and figure out if it is really worth it to continue! I am breaking even and it is not fun anymore working so hard to break even!

Al great sled and wine racks!

Ike

gapdev
10-13-2011, 03:36 PM
Hey Ike,


It also will allow you to buy material tax free for your products.

I think that's a no no, at least in California.

Unless you resell the material (i.e., you buy a redwood board and resell it), you are supposed to pay tax on it. If you use the board in the production of a sign, that board is taxable to you.

I have a re-sell certificate but it's mostly to allow me to collect sales tax since I sell software that I write so there's not much I can buy tax free - nothing, actually.

Kenny

Ike
10-13-2011, 11:37 PM
Don't know what to tell you I have a Ca resell license/ seller's permit that specifies what materials I use for the sign. A redwood board falls into that category, so does paint, finish. It doesn't include sand paper or tools or paint brushes.

I have a seller's / resell permit and not a certificate. so I don't know what you have. but I go into the lumber store, ie Lowes and my local lumber store and I do not pay tax on the items related to my product. I did the same thing with my old soda business at Smart and Final and Cash N Carry. I would buy cups, lids, etc no sales tax, but if I also bought say laundry soap it would be taxed.


I have had my permit for several years and has not been a problem ever or illegal......


Ike

cnsranch
10-14-2011, 09:39 AM
Ike and Kenny - I think you guys are saying the same thing.

Part of my business involves retail, so I may be able to clear some of this up...

(Except for Internet sales, which is a whole 'nother animal), The bottom line is that the "End User" pays sales tax on purchases, period (unless you're a Non-Profit Organization, and you have a Certificate that proves it).

That means that the person/entity who is selling a product/item to an End User must collect Sales Tax - no exceptions. In order to do that, you have to have a "Retailer's Sales Tax Registration Certificate". You get that from the State where you conduct your primary business.

My business is located in Kansas, but I'm three miles from the KS/MO State Line, so I'm registered to collect Sales Tax in Kansas, and to collect a "Use Tax" in MO (don't worry about the Use Tax - basically the same thing, but it's called something different due to the fact that I'm in another State). This happens to be particular to KS and MO - they have a "reciprocal agreement between States" - but I have to collect Sales Tax where the item is "delivered", and the Tax for that County/City. That means that if someone comes into my office and buys a product, they pay Sales Tax for that City/County, but if I deliver a product to another County, the Sales Tax is assessed based on the Tax Rate for that County (it's a mess - I have over 75 different Tax Rates that I have to manage, but QuickBooks is a master at that).

So, like Ike said, he has to pay sales tax on paint brushes, because he's the End User. But, he doesn't have to pay Sales Tax on the paint, because that's eventually part of the product he's selling to a customer. HOWEVER, if he isn't registered as a Retailer, the store where he buys his paint will charge him Sales Tax - he has to present a "Uniform Sales and Use Tax Certificate" to his supplier that shows his Registration/Permit number that allows him to Retail. That form simply covers the Supplier's tail - they don't have to verify that the info is correct, they simply have to have it on file for a future Sales Tax Audit (that happens, by the way - that's what got me in hot water years ago, but that's another story).

Do not think that if you pay sales tax on an item, and then resell it that your Buyer doesn't have to pay Sales Tax. Take it from me - the IRS expects to get Sales Tax each and every time a product is sold - unless the Seller is exempt as stated above.

Bottom line - if you're selling a sign to someone, you are required by Law to collect Sales Tax, period - just like your required by Law to pay Sales Tax on a purchase. The IRS only requires Sales Tax to be collected one time from the End User, assuming that the Seller is properly registered, and follows the rules (like actually paying the State the Tax they have collected).

You're the End User of your machinery, (and the maintenance and repair of same), the work bench you use, the paint brushes you use, the cups you put your paint in, the sand paper you use etc, so you are the one to pay Sales Tax on those items.

The wood, paint, stain, poly, hooks to hang the sign, (and, I THINK, the paper bag you put the sign in when you hand the sign to the Buyer) etc., are all items you purchase "Wholesale" (no Sales Tax paid by you). The finished product, then, that you place a price of, say, $35 is taxed, and the Sales Tax is paid by your Buyer, collected by you, and then remitted to the State - either Quarterly or Monthly, depending on how much you're collecting.

For those of us who think we don't have to collect and remit Sales Tax - we're kidding ourselves - it is the Law.

It doesn't matter if we're selling the item for "Cost", or no profit, or at a loss, we HAVE to collect and remit Sales Tax.

(Kenny's right, by the way - he doesn't buy anything for resale - He buys nothing that he re-sells to an End User. Because it's software, what he has in development of the software came right out of his noggin - nothing there to pass along to the End User.)

The Feds don't care if you're selling one $10 item per month, or 1,000 - they want their piece.

But don't despair - registering, collecting and remitting is really not a big deal.

(Man, my Posts are getting as long as Ike's) :)

Digitalwoodshop
10-14-2011, 11:09 AM
I got a PA Use Tax Self Audit a few months ago. I went to my H&R Block lady with my last 5 years of receipts laid out in my Annual Tax work Sheets and we applied the Rules to each purchase and made decisions as to if I needed to pay Use Tax. It was Painless and only about $250.00 for me. I felt good that we had made the right choices.

I needed a HP Toner Cartridge and remember they were very high in price. $80.00 at Office Depot where I pay State Tax right then and there.... I looked on eBay and bought the $14.00 "Compatible" new toner and I have flagged it to pay the 6% Use Tax with my next Sales Tax Payment. In this case it is worth it to buy on the Internet and pay the Use Tax. The Toner is use to "Support" my business so it is Taxable... Now the Sublimation Ink at $300.00 a Bag x 8 colors is used directly in the printing of my tags so it is tax free.

That Printer has made me Thousands..... I have 3 more back up printers as the heads plug with the thicker ink... I store them with cleaner / shipping fluid so they are ready for action... Almost like printing money... Like the CW.... Find the right product...

AL

Ropdoc,

Had an idea that I wanted to share... I bet that some of the project designers and Wood Shop hobby folks over at the Sawmill Creek Wood Forum might find your service of taking hand drawn projects and turning them into Professional Drawings... All it takes is a small Contribution to the Forum and you are able to place free ads on the Classified Thread... Even a post in one of the threads as to how you take a concept and turn it into a Professional Drawing....

Good Luck,

AL Sent PM

Ike
10-14-2011, 02:07 PM
Ropdoc, sorry I didn't mean to have your post go off topic! I just wanted to share the differences between a business and a hobby! The more events you go to other then local events things change. County fairs, Home and Garden shows and some bigger craft fairs requires you to have a million dollar insurance coverage. Often time offered by the event and at that point they will require you to charge sells tax. Both are very easy to obtain, I wanted to explain the benefits you have with the resell permit. I am sorry if I lead you to believe it allows you not to pay tax for anything related to your business.

I think I am on the same page as Jerry! I buy new machinery like the CW and I pay tax, but for the material for the final production I do not! I torch my sign, but the torch and gas refill I pay tax. I sand the signs, but pay tax for the sand paper. However the board and the paint and finish I use I do not pay tax. I could even get my eye hooks tax free. Why? All these items are part of the finish product. Just like a restaurant the ingredients used for the soup is purchased tax free and the customer pays the tax. But the restaurant may go and buy carrots, potatoes, onion, meat etc. it is tax exempt. But in that same order if they bought new cooking tools, pots, pans, spoons etc. it is taxable.

Just like my example of my failed soda business I would shop at Cash N Carry or Smart and Final, both stores opened to the public. They sell many standard grocery items, but my business was Old Fashioned Soda. So if I bought cups, lids, straws or soda syrup and then I bought some carrots and bread and meat. The only thing tax exempt would be the cups, lids, straws, syrup and the rest taxable. Why because the carrots, bread, meat is not part of the soda sells.

This applies to my signs too, the material may it be redwood or sign board it is being resold even if it isn't a whole board. This applies to the finish also, the bit used to carve the sign is taxable.


Again I am sorry for getting off track I was just trying to give you the whole picture and never thought that the tax procedure would throw a wrench in the gears! This isn't a bad thing and I thank Jerry for the help! I wouldn't want you to think the resell license will get you out of paying taxes for everything related to your business. I filled out a form years ago when I applied for my resell license informing them of what I was doing business as and what would be the final material for sell. It did not ask what equipment was used, only what material that would be passed on. If I sold tablesaws then when I bought tablesaws and accessories I would not pay tax. But if I bought a truck and a fork lift to load and transport I would pay tax! I am not reselling the the truck or fork lift!

Ropdoc I hope you post soon so we can direct you to events close to you and help you figure out a product that will sell!

Ike

Ropdoc
10-14-2011, 02:23 PM
Hello folks,

I really appreciate your advice. It is just that I want out of this state SSSSSOOOOOOO bad that I am starting to get a little down when nothing seems to happen. My wife asked me to stop looking at land because it depresses me so much. My dream and prayer is to buy a piece of land with a workshop and home on it. Lots of trees around it of course. Oh to build a tree house for my grandson to camp in and have a little fire below to cook burgers and stuff on. Anyway I am heading off topic. But I was looking for a way to support my wife and I there. I grew up on a farm until I was 17 and got into allot of trouble so parents brought me here to CA.

I am chewing on the advice from above and tried to create a logon for Saw Creek Wood forum but every name I pick is taken. So I got frustrated and quit.
I am a mechanical designer for a company that has horrible morals and the moral of everyone is really start to drop.
Hello folks,

I really aprociate your advise. It is just that I want out of this state SSSSSOOOOOOO bad that I amstarting to get a little down when nothing seems to happen. My wife asked me to stop looking at land because it depresses me so much. My dream and prayer is to buy a piece of land with a workshop and home on it. Lots os trees around it of course. Oh to build a tree house for my grandson to camp in and have a little fire below to cook burgers and stuff on. Anyway I am heading off topic. But I was looking for a way to support my wife and I there. I grew up on a farm until I was 17 and got into alot of trouble so parents brought me here to CA.

I am chewing on the advise from above and tried to create a logon for Saw Creek Wood forum but every name I pick is taken. So I got frustrated and quit. I am a mechanical designer for a company that has horrible morals and the maral of everyone is really starting to drop.

Please keep the advise coming.

cnsranch
10-14-2011, 03:38 PM
I feel your pain about costs in CA.

I was born and raised in KS but lived in CA from 1987-1999. Sold out and came home.

I live on 50 acres 30 minutes south of KC in a house that's 12 yrs old, and a 1,400 ft detached workshop. I've got less in the place I'm in now than the one I had in CA.

But, it's gonna be 10 degrees below zero here in about 10 weeks.

Best luck.

Ropdoc
10-14-2011, 05:15 PM
I grew up outside of a little town called Maroa Ill. I miss it so much. I remember the cold very well. I'm looking at West Virginia for a place to buy in and live. The cold I can deal with. The heat not so much. I am trying to get my wife to look into 15 to 100 acres, lots of trees, a river or stream, and mountains.

Ike
10-15-2011, 06:43 PM
I don't blame both of you I would love to move from California myself! I live in Northern Ca. and in Susanville it is a very nice place to live! It is one of the cheaper places to live for the most part. Property taxes are low and utilities are very low also housing! Groceries are a bit high but not enough to justify the hour drive to Reno Nev. unless you have a big shopping list. Still I can't even live off my medical retirement. It does get get 10 below here sometimes and we get our share of snow.

Lol my Dish local channels come from Reno, so I know more about Nevada then I do about California! I have 2.5 acres and a 1200 square foot shop, well half the front houses my 67 Firebird! Still this is California and Jerry Brown is our Governor and that should explain a bunch there!

Ropdoc I am more then happy to call you or you call me just send a PM and we can talk and I hope all the resell junk didn't discourage you? I would like to share what I have been through and what to watch for! I have been going to a min. of 8 fairs each year and really only made enough to do it again the next year! The wife and I are going to sit down and crush the numbers and see what can be changed and if it is worth it at all!

I hope the best for you and please feel free to ask for my number!

Ike

jaroot
10-15-2011, 07:12 PM
I lived in Cal in the Central Valley for a couple of years, but I got better! :)

Ropdoc
10-16-2011, 09:11 PM
Thanks guys. I am just really low. It thought I saw a light at the end of the tunnel. But it was just someone running towards me with a dieing flashlight.