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edzbaker
09-26-2011, 09:11 PM
I will start by posting the LionHead Candle stick holders pattern, for the Rotary jig. I know they are posted elsewhere, but they belong here.

Thanks

Ed

edzbaker
09-26-2011, 09:24 PM
Here is a Liberty Pattern that I carved a cane with. The picture is of the cane.

Ed

CarverJerry
09-27-2011, 05:41 AM
Ed, can you explain how this is made, well what I mean how many times is this indexed to complete the pattern. Since the CW is only a 3 axis machine I take it that this jig must be indexed manually. I'l love to try something like this myself.

CJ

AskBud
09-27-2011, 06:39 AM
Ed, can you explain how this is made, well what I mean how many times is this indexed to complete the pattern. Since the CW is only a 3 axis machine I take it that this jig must be indexed manually. I'l love to try something like this myself.

CJI think it is the pattern that is "extended", not the rotary jig.
AskBud

edzbaker
09-27-2011, 09:35 AM
Jerry, The Carvewright machine does "INDEX" the round stock, using my Rotary Jig. Techhnically speaking, it is a 4th axis that will carve 12 inches of a 2" X 14" Dowel.

I know it's hard to grasp, but, No Longer is the Carvewright Machine limited to 3 axis carving.

"How many times is this indexed to complete a pattern ?" answer, The same number of times that it would index if it were carving on a flat surface of the same dimensions. (More than I can count)

Ed

mtylerfl
09-27-2011, 09:57 AM
Ed, can you explain how this is made, well what I mean how many times is this indexed to complete the pattern. Since the CW is only a 3 axis machine I take it that this jig must be indexed manually. I'l love to try something like this myself.

CJ

Hi CJ,

The neat thing about Ed's Rotary Jig is it does "everything" automatically (well, you do have to put the jig into the machine). Indexing concerns are really a non-issue...the machine "thinks" you are carving on a flat board! So, the same number of incremental steps (i.e., the stepover) it takes on a flat board, are identical to carving on the round dowel stock with the jig.

SteveEJ
09-27-2011, 11:09 AM
OK.. Here is a concept that 'Should' work with the jig.

(I am taking this from projects made with my Legacy mill.)

1- Get two boards that are a true 1" thick X slightly over 2" wide and long enough for the jig minus 2".
2- Rout a 1" channel lengthwise down the middle of the 1"X2" board 1/2" deep. The goal is a hollow 1" round opening down the length of the stock as if a drill bit drilled out the stock. After gluing, round the stock to 2" (or slightly less) by your choice of tools.
3- Here's the tricky part: Make two 2" diameter holders that conform with the top and bottom ends of the 'Stock' that goes into the Jig. On one side of each 'Holder' have a 1" diameter protrusion that will go into the glued up stock to hold it steady. Place a small donut shaped piece of two sided tape to hold each end in place.
4 - Place in jig.
5 - Design a MPC that cuts slightly more than 1/2" deep. The goal is a nice design outside leading to a hollow middle. (See attached picture). This hollow spiral could be hollow grapevines, etc.
6- carve the stock.
7- remove from the jig and remove the 'End' holders and finish as desired. The ends can be re-used for future projects.

47568

Remember, this is only a idea and I have no hands on with the jig. Let me know what you think as this could lead to several out of the box ideas with this new device.

edzbaker
09-27-2011, 11:35 AM
Steve, it sounds like it will work. I will test it and post pic's and mpc as soon as I can. (Dang this day job is taking up way too much of my play time)

Ed

SteveEJ
09-27-2011, 11:40 AM
Another concept, which would require LHR software support:

Router bit profiles.. Rope, Barley twists, etc.

Set a rotation speed, start point, end point, max depth per pass and Y feed speed.

This would be akin to Vector Graphics on round stock using router bit profiles as the final shape. This would allow fast milling of stock. The hollow candle sticks on my previous post were done that way.

Just another idea.. What ya think LHR?

AskBud
09-27-2011, 12:56 PM
Another concept, which would require LHR software support:

Router bit profiles.. Rope, Barley twists, etc.

Set a rotation speed, start point, end point, max depth per pass and Y feed speed.

This would be akin to Vector Graphics on round stock using router bit profiles as the final shape. This would allow fast milling of stock. The hollow candle sticks on my previous post were done that way.

Just another idea.. What ya think LHR?Looking at Ed's site, he may have accomplished some of that prior the his offer (If this cane was accomplished on the CW). http://customcarved.web.officelive.com/ChiefEagleRopeCane.aspx
AskBud

edzbaker
09-27-2011, 01:27 PM
Yes Bud, That cane was cut on the CW. If you put a rope on your designer board. The Rotary Jig will wrap it around the piece you are carving.

If designer had a Wrap feature, to allow you to see the final product before carving, that would be nice ! Design on a flat board, then select WRAP. Ahhhh that would be so nice....

Ed

SteveEJ
09-27-2011, 01:29 PM
Bud,
I looked at this. It looks like a relief carving and not a router bit profile that did this. Router bit profiles are much faster but reduce carving flexibility. I will provide a link to some videos or upload a picture of what I mean in a little bit. I have to run right now and meet the wife.

SteveEJ
09-27-2011, 04:46 PM
OK.. Look at these videos and you will see how router bit profiles work.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN8jyOJw-SY&feature=player_embedded#!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxvvbGLSqIk&NR=1

Now, some of this can be done on the CW, thanks to the 4th axis jig, with some thought. Use angle lines, length based on number of wraps calculations and shapes based on Router bits. Any ideas out there??

Added: Higher cost CNC capabilities on the CarveWright.. Nice Ed..

edzbaker
09-27-2011, 05:01 PM
Steve, I think some of the same DESIGNS are Very possible, but keep in mind that the Carvewright head is moving Lengthwise with the Round stock, and the When Carving, rotary jig indexes in very small increments the same as carving on a flat board, unless you set it up with Vectors, then it rotates the same asa flat piece carving vectors. , but still moving lengthwise. (The video shows a different movment with the Legacy) Someone like you will be able to make it do things that I haven't even thought of.

Thanks..

SteveEJ
09-27-2011, 05:13 PM
Ed,
Vectors ARE THE KEY to using router bit profiles. Also using the right bits. Advantage is speed of the cuts. An example of this would be simple flutes using a simple 1/2 inch bull nose bit. Multiple straight line vectors that are equally spaced on the part. The equal spacing would be indexing on the part, length and depth of cut would make the flutes. Applying these same principles but changing the straight lines to angles would generate the spiral cuts. The problem with the jig and spiral cuts, as I see it (using vectors), would be the maximum length of the board measurement. This would dictate how many full rotations could be made. Raster cutting, which is the CW's native carving mode, spirals are no problem. They just take a bit more time.

I am not trying to take anything away from your jig. Quite the opposite, I am seeing many things (out of the box) that can be accomplished with it!

Now, I just have to buy one and try my theories out.. ;)

SteveEJ
09-27-2011, 05:42 PM
Here is a quick sample MPC that I put together. It uses 3 different bits and only vectors. With three bits I have created lathe like turnings, flutes and a diamond pattern. Try it Ed and see if it works. I am not sure about all the measurements but it should be close. Then again, I haven't tried it on your jig yet nor do I have hands on knowledge yet.

47582

47583

SteveEJ
09-27-2011, 06:03 PM
Here is another test using the Ogee and 90 Degree V-Bit with all vectors.

47585

47587

This one uses the same vector (line) for the Lathe like turnings at the top and bottom but also adds a DXF image from the DXF importer for the flag. Let us know how it works out.

SteveEJ
09-27-2011, 06:08 PM
LG or MT,
Could you look at the MPC's and draw a wrapped model so we could look at it? Just thinking.. All I have is VCarve Pro 6. :roll:

edzbaker
09-27-2011, 07:01 PM
Steve, I don't have the Bit set, so I changed the bit in the test to a 90d V-bit 3/4"wide. The feed rate and the depth of carve caused lots of vibrations, and caused the round stock to slip.
The instruction booklet for the Rotary Jig does state to "always use OPTIMAL setting to keep the bit from digging in".

I'm guessing now that Vector cuts might not work so good, unless the feed rate was SLOW, bits Sharp, and cuts much Shallower than the test I ran.


The picture shows how it didn't keep track with the vectors.

Ed

SteveEJ
09-27-2011, 07:37 PM
Ed,
With the bit change did you set to cut 0.1" Max cut per depth? If you tried to have them cut more than that it would cause that to happen. In the bit selection dialog set the Max Pass Depth to 0.1" or even less to relieve the pressure. It looks like you tried to cut too much off at once as is visible by the burning.

Edit:
Also, change to a 60 Degree V-Bit. It looks like 90 Degree was too much of an angle.

More firewood huh..

edzbaker
09-27-2011, 08:09 PM
Steve, I didn't set the Max cut depth. I should have. The large diameter (3/4") bit digging in so deep is exactly what caused the slip. Tomorrow evening, if I get some time, I might give that one another try.
I'm certain the spiral Hollow will carve using raster carve. I want to try that too... That is what the jig was designed to do. But I agree that if it would do the vector carves, that would be another "tool in the box" so to speak. I see no reason why it wouldn't, if I had changed the Max depth like you suggest.

Thanks...

Ed

The weather is cooling off,, so I guess if some more firewood is in order, It might as well be pretty firewood.

Digitalwoodshop
09-27-2011, 08:58 PM
Well, this is Exciting STUFF.... I can see where without a Top Notch Dust Hood like the Ringneck version I am VERY Happy with... You could get slipping between the round blank and the board driver.... I still see there a Rack and Pinion version of this Jig with different color and size round gears that lock into the driver board.... It will take the possible slip out of the picture... The Masking Tape idea on "Roids" I could even SEE a flat notched belt reversed with the Teeth pointing UP engaging in a Rubber Belt teeth DOWN on the driver board.... Not that we would expect there to be any slip on the Sand Paper Belts of the Driver Board... Lots of IDEAS.... Remembering it is nice to dream but this is a fully functional unit.... and a Outstanding Jig....

I was SO excited about this Jig that I called our old CW Buddy ChrisAlb. He was on the Road Trucking 150 miles from his stop for the night in MONTANA... What a life Traveling around the country.... The Scenery He has Seen..... He was excited about the Jig too... and said to say "HI". He is doing WELL.


Me TOO.... Got a nibble on a very big Fire Tag order... Biggest ever..... 750 Plus.... The Bobber is moving around like a Catfish Nibbling on it.... And here is AL again tooting his own horn with pictures...


Was under the weather for the weekend Fire Show and took a Display there for the Door Prize.... 2 of them... Then drove home and went to bed... That is where this tip came from... I am crossing my fingers.... So every person saw the display twice.... Pretty Slick... Gave away a License Plate and a Hitch Cover...

AL

liquidguitars
09-28-2011, 10:42 AM
Could you look at the MPC's and draw a wrapped model so we could look at it? Just thinking..

At this point I asked LHR Software to save out a merged copy of the project board as a STL and Raster PNG, without this ability it will be hard to twist your projects.

edzbaker
09-28-2011, 07:00 PM
Ok Steve. Here it is. I didn't have a decent sharp 60d bit, so I decided that if this test was to see if the Rotary Jig could repeat Vector lines and follow them correctly, the 1/16 carving bit would tell for sure. So, that is what I used. Each pass was repeated three times, with each cut being deeper than the last. Thracking was dead on, as you can see. But I still say that it wasn't made with this use in mind, even though it worked.

Oh ... and the vectors did overlap on the piece, so it would take some testing to see EXACTLY what size a vector pattern would need to be.

Thanks Much

Ed

SteveEJ
09-28-2011, 08:03 PM
Looks good Ed.

Remember, Complex vectors were not easy until the DXF importer came out. It would not be wrong to use vectors on flat or now round stock, thanks to you! I think that you designed it to vectors and just didn't realize it..

edzbaker
09-29-2011, 04:35 PM
A jig to help you find and drill the exact center of a round piece. The dimensions can be changed to suit the need. One is for a 2" dowel, with a guide hole of 1/4" and the other is for a 2" dowel with a guide hole of 3/4 inch. Just put the dowel end in the carved area, and drill through the guide hole. This one is handy when making a cane with the rotary jig.

Ed

mwhatch
09-29-2011, 06:34 PM
I guess I am going to have to get one of these things. Just when I thought I had all the stuff I needed. Oh Well.
I had thought of putting a 4th axis on my other machine, but this will be a lot easier.

Meanwhile, here is a project I worked up. Maybe someone would like to run it to see if we are heading the right direction. It may make a reasonably ok set of candle sticks.

b.sumner47
09-29-2011, 09:35 PM
Thanks, for the mpc's, Gentlemen. Capt Barry

edzbaker
09-30-2011, 11:25 AM
mwhatch, I believe that pattern would cut perfectly ! You are definately on the right track ..

I'm thinking that a Tiered (?Spelling) candy dish would look nice. With dished carvings stacked, with some round carvings for center supports. A Larger dish then smaller dish then smaller dish ...etc.. Shaped kinda like a christmas tree.
Hopefully someone can translate this into english... Ha..

Thanks

Ed

b.sumner47
09-30-2011, 11:38 AM
I had to wait for the money coffers to refill. I'm going to order one now. Talk to you later. Capt Barry

fwharris
09-30-2011, 12:16 PM
First attempt at a design for a beer tap. Look this over and see if I am on the right track. I think I have the settings good for tapering down the handle.

SteveEJ
09-30-2011, 12:27 PM
Looks good Floyd!

fwharris
09-30-2011, 12:43 PM
Thanks Steve,

Not sure on my length. It might be to long, guess I need to hit a few bars :roll: and check em out.

Got my new filter system (http://www.wynnenv.com/35A_series_cartridge_kit.htm) the other day and want to get it set up before I do any carving. Hope to have the time now that I've gotten caught up on my insert orders.

edzbaker
09-30-2011, 01:35 PM
Floyd, It looks Real Good. I am not at home to see the mpc in designer. Some numbers that help me in carving round stock are: A carve region of: .062 leaves 1 7/8" diameter. .250 leaves 1.5. .312 leaves 1 5/16.
.437 leaves 1 1/8. .500 leaves 1". .625 leaves 3/4. Those numbers aren't intended to be EXACT when carving round stock, but are very close to the results you will see.

Ed

edzbaker
09-30-2011, 01:38 PM
"Not sure on my length. It might be to long, guess I need to hit a few bars :roll: and check em out"

Sounds like it's time to make a "Facts gathering trip" .. The Beer tap handle that is on the Rotary Jig advertisment was done by Joe Lovchick. It sure did come out nice !

Ed

b.sumner47
09-30-2011, 01:49 PM
It's ordered, now for the wait. Capt Barry

AskBud
09-30-2011, 02:26 PM
Floyd, It looks Real Good. I am not at home to see the mpc in designer. Some numbers that help me in carving round stock are: A carve region of: .062 leaves 1 7/8" diameter. .250 leaves 1.5. .312 leaves 1 5/16.
.437 leaves 1 1/8. .500 leaves 1". .625 leaves 3/4. Those numbers aren't intended to be EXACT when carving round stock, but are very close to the results you will see.

EdAnother way to remember is that when turning round stock: "The depth you use will be double what you loose".
Thats an old toolmakers memory lesson.
AskBud

edzbaker
09-30-2011, 02:43 PM
AskBud, I like that ! easy to remember.


Capt Barry, I have not received the order confirmation from Carvewright, yet. Make sure your order status said "Processed"

Thanks..

ED.

CarverJerry
09-30-2011, 03:02 PM
Right on Bud,... used that saying for many years myself.... what comes off one side comes off the other.

CJ

lynnfrwd
09-30-2011, 03:29 PM
AskBud, I like that ! easy to remember.


Capt Barry, I have not received the order confirmation from Carvewright, yet. Make sure your order status said "Processed"

Thanks..

ED.

I see it on there! I think the third party orders are being marked Payment Pending status, just so we can keep them separate until you send us shipping confirmation. You might want to talk to Mary.

edzbaker
09-30-2011, 03:46 PM
Connie, If I don't get the order, the way I have for a week already, I have no address, or name to ship to. Someone at LHR must have changed the process.. and that isn't going to work so good.


Ed

edzbaker
09-30-2011, 03:50 PM
This was ask for, to put on a cane. You can copy and paste this to your project. When carving a cane, it's best to add some draft to the patterns. due to the angle of the cuting bit changing in relation to the wood, as the wood rotates.

Ed

b.sumner47
09-30-2011, 04:32 PM
Ed, just got off the phone with Alec at LHR. I'm waiting for confirmation from the powers that be. Capt Barry

lynnfrwd
09-30-2011, 04:46 PM
Connie, If I don't get the order, the way I have for a week already, I have no address, or name to ship to. Someone at LHR must have changed the process.. and that isn't going to work so good.


Ed

Sent you a PM. Joe is checking with accounting to see what might be different.

lynnfrwd
09-30-2011, 05:16 PM
OK...got it figured out. Up until Captain Barry, all third party orders had been done by the customer through the online store and the process worked fine. Captain Barry called into LHR to place the order. Our customer service reps use a different system than you guys do through the store and the process had not been set up to handle the orders through there. Now they are.

Good to go on the third party orders!

edzbaker
09-30-2011, 05:21 PM
Thank YOU connie,

Capt Barry, It's Packed up, Addressed, and ready for the Big Brown truck. It will be Monday before they get it.
I will send you a tracking number when I get home from work Monday.

Thanks again Connie..

Ed

lynnfrwd
09-30-2011, 05:30 PM
You're welcome, Ed.

Boy, we sure got off track with this thread.

Joe S., don't worry. Ed has your order too, now.

Everyone have a great weekend. I'm gonna be helping my parents move, so I won't be online as much.

Now, back to posting cool rotary designs!!!!

b.sumner47
09-30-2011, 08:14 PM
Thank You, Connie and ED, fast work on getting it out. It looks like along weekend, plenty to do though. Capt Barry

SteveJ
10-08-2011, 07:16 PM
47856

Today was a good day carving. I will try to upload a couple pictures. I carved these candle holders today and wanted to show a pic of the extra vacuum line to eliminate the chips that build up and wil try to get under the dowel. She ran clean as apin and had a great match from the start or the carve to the finish cut. Made my own dowels out of some walnut that has been here for awhile. I also wanted to include the MPC so you can add your own pattern if you want. The jig is great!
4785547854

b.sumner47
10-08-2011, 07:38 PM
Steve J, Great work and thanks for Mpc.

mwhatch
10-08-2011, 07:42 PM
SteveJ,

Those are very nice. Is that just a clear coat on them?

SteveJ
10-08-2011, 07:44 PM
SteveJ,

Those are very nice. Is that just a clear coat on them?

Morton

I put two coats of thinned shellac then several coats of clear. I like the way shellac brings out the personality of the wood.

Kenm810
10-08-2011, 07:49 PM
Nice Job Steve,

I'm starting a folder for myself just for Rotary Carved Round Stock, keep'em coming!

SteveJ
10-08-2011, 07:58 PM
Thank you for the nice comments. I wish I knew how to get a pattern to conform to a dome.....I thought it was possible, but was unable to get it. My conform option was not active so I guess it only works with vectors? Not sure what to do in the future.... I would like to carve some canon barrels. Have played with it, but not there yet.

Found a tutorial and got my pattern to conform using the merge additive. I need to read the instructions....:)

AskBud
10-08-2011, 08:23 PM
Thank you for the nice comments. I wish I knew how to get a pattern to conform to a dome.....I thought it was possible, but was unable to get it. My conform option was not active so I guess it only works with vectors? Not sure what to do in the future.... I would like to carve some canon barrels. Have played with it, but not there yet.

Found a tutorial and got my pattern to conform using the merge additive. I need to read the instructions....:)I'm sending you a private message.
AskBud

Kenm810
10-08-2011, 09:00 PM
Steve,
Sometimes I just make pattern or elements of a carving Additive
to have them wrap around a domed or curved surface.

Ps you were to quick for me!

edzbaker
10-08-2011, 09:35 PM
Steve, It just doesn't get any better than that ! Beautiful work ..

Thanks for sharing the pictures..

Ed

ladjr
10-09-2011, 12:10 AM
I love your candle sticks. Were you going to provide the MPC for them.

Ladjr

Today was a good day carving. I will try to upload a couple pictures. I carved these candle holders today and wanted to show a pic of the extra vacuum line to eliminate the chips that build up and wil try to get under the dowel. She ran clean as apin and had a great match from the start or the carve to the finish cut. Made my own dowels out of some walnut that has been here for awhile. I also wanted to include the MPC so you can add your own pattern if you want. The jig is great!
4785547854[/QUOTE]

fwharris
10-09-2011, 02:13 AM
Steve,

Great job on the carve design and finish! That was on of my first thoughts for the added dust collection. I will have to see if I have a 4x2 reducer.

SteveJ
10-09-2011, 11:31 AM
Thank you. In case you missed the MPC, I will try to list it again. You can add your own pattern to it.
47873

b.sumner47
10-09-2011, 11:59 AM
Thank, Steve. Real nice job. Capt Barry

bergerud
10-12-2011, 06:00 PM
Have you guys seen fire pistons? They are an old fire starting device which would make an excellent project for the rotary jig. Do a Google search on "fire piston" and look at all of the images. The idea could easily be built into a knife handle or cane or ??.

ladjr
10-23-2011, 09:30 PM
Thanks for the MPC

CarverJerry
11-12-2011, 07:16 PM
In reference to #2 post here by Ed, you show the liberty.mpc file....I was looking at it but couldn't figure out what the area was all about shown in my picture here....I point out 4 spots that just doesn't make any sence to me, but then again I've never seen the statue of Liberty in person. Please see picture here...

edzbaker
11-13-2011, 09:10 AM
Jerry, that pattern came from an STL file (from archibaseplanet.com) that I had a friend "Unwrap". Since I didn't make the stl, I have no idea what the maker had in mind. I too have never actually seen the Statue of Liberty, except in pictures.

Ed

CarverJerry
11-13-2011, 11:09 AM
Ok, well now I've got a question, I really don't know much about STL files, and very little about our own designer program but would it be possible to fix this drawing? From what I see it looks like it would carve a recess or hole in the back of this. I'm about to ask someone to carve this for me but I don't want that spot to be there. How would you go about fix'n this? And if it's not possible thats ok too.

James RS
11-13-2011, 02:54 PM
What drawing?

edzbaker
11-13-2011, 03:37 PM
Here is a .png that can be edited. You are right, it did carve a recess there.

Ed

I also attached the MPW in a zip. Anyone with pattern editor should be able to edit this one.

CarverJerry
11-16-2011, 12:26 PM
That will be something I can play around with, I'm not much into that nor do I have the rotary jig yet but I do like that idea of the statue of liberty being on like a cane or candle holder. Thanks Ed

eelamb
01-30-2012, 09:07 AM
I have been playing around with the patterns for the rotary jig some, and figuring out how to unwrapp a 3d pattern. What I will show here is a very simple chess set, all but the knight was done using loft and profiles in MoI3d, the knight has taken more thought, along with UV mapping, displacement maps to get to this point. None of these are finished by no means. I would need to place tabs on the top and bottom to prevent them from coming off the jig (or breaking off while carving). But it is a start and I believe with more work and thought/ experience in UV mapping. I may be able to make some nice patterns for the jig.

Ok here is the patterns unwrapped. Next post will be a 3d image of each pattern.

eelamb
01-30-2012, 09:10 AM
And here is what they would look like when taking the same profile in Moi and making it into a 3d pattern.

As I said these are not finished, I plan on sculpting the knight to give it a horse feature, then doing the UV maping again to see how that goes.

bergerud
01-30-2012, 09:35 AM
Very interesting. So far, I can only unwrap patterns that I can describe mathematically. Given a surface in terms of two variables (u,v), I convert to cylindrical coordinates and unwrap. By U V mapping, are you referring to the method 3d programs use to map textures to surfaces? I wonder if there are any 3d programs which given a surface and an axle, will unwrap. An open source program where we could write our own routine?

This is a great source of interesting problems. For example, is it possible to carve past center and what would such a pattern look like?

eelamb
01-30-2012, 10:25 AM
Bergerud, you have it right, there are a few methods of UV mapping, cylinder is one, Ball shape, shrink wrap to mention a few. I am not that versed in them but know of their existence. As for programs, I hear artcam can unwrap a 3d model, and blinder (a free 3d software) has uv mapping, baking, displacement, normal, specular mapping, all of which come into play. I have Silo, and ZB along with MoI3d. Silo and ZB also have the ability. So I would say it is along the same line as what you are doing.

U and V are the X and Y coridance.

eelamb
01-30-2012, 10:57 AM
Example of the loft command in Moi3d. Take 2 profiles, and space them a set distance, then loft the profile between the two. This is fine for anything that would be similar to an item turned on a lathe.

Edit: this profile (single line) when revolved along the axis, become the pawn as shown below.

jpaluck
01-30-2012, 11:48 AM
Bergerud - Check out blender. Here is some info on unwrapping the uv map http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Doc:2.6/Manual/Textures/Mapping/UV/Unwrapping there are also a ton of free tutorials on blender and uv mapping.

Eddie - Funny how you brought up the UV mapping. I never had a desire to get into texturing etc in modeling until a few months ago. I got into doing some stuff with 3d content and flash. I needed smaller file sizes so UV mapping and normal maps, displacement maps, color maps, speculars maps..etc. The UV map with baked displacement, flattened, then put on a plane, then export as stl to cw, should work no problem.

jpaluck
01-30-2012, 03:19 PM
this a rough shot at it but it should work..lol eventually..more tweaking to do...quick try in zbrush with uvmaster..uv master not the best for laying uv's out but it was fast...played around with the demo head, created displacement map, tweaked map ( picture has teeth an eyes..I didnt seperate) moved to plane, kept poly's low to test bent 360...with some more tweaking this should work. Definte mind teaser509245092550926

eelamb
01-30-2012, 04:16 PM
Ok taking a primitive head (provided in Silo), here is what I got from it. Now I need that bottle of scotch John keeps talking about to clear my head:)

bergerud
01-30-2012, 04:17 PM
That does look promising. Can the displacement map be converted to gray scale ?

jpaluck
01-30-2012, 04:26 PM
Bergerud

A displacement map, unlike a normal map, will affect the actual geometry. So the flow would go like this - Make the model in full 3d, then create uv layout, then bake displacement map to uv layout, then take a plane and place displacement map and convert to either stl or heightmap from there. The tricky part is getting the uv lay right - ie the seam and also getting the sizing correct.

Eddie..LOL scotch doesnt help on this one...LOL

eelamb
01-30-2012, 04:34 PM
Here is an article on displacement maps in Zbrush.
http://www.pixologic.com/docs/index.php/Creating_Displacement_Maps
Just one of the many pages on the web dealing with this subject.

added blender instructions. http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Doc:2.4/Manual/Textures/Influence/Material/Bump_and_Normal

eelamb
01-30-2012, 05:02 PM
Bergerud, here is a section describing the maps.
A displacement map is real geometry (polygons), while a bump map is tricks of light to make it look like it has real geometry. Normal maps are like bump maps, as in the way they both trick the light, but normal maps actually change the surfaces normals and bend the light. Bump map renders faster but you do lose quality. Normal maps are used more in low poly games. Displacement maps, because of their longer render time, are mostly used on objects that need high level detail.

bergerud
01-30-2012, 05:12 PM
I am not so sure these unwrapping operations are the right transformations. They seem to be just laying out the polygons to apply a texture to. The polygons themselves do not seem to change size. There are disconnections in some examples I have seen. There needs to be an axle and a diameter relative to which the scaling is done. If you can make these maps without that information, then I cannot imagine that it can be the right transformation. I am going to have to do some more research on this. Thanks for the links.

jpaluck
01-30-2012, 06:07 PM
Correct the uv maps are used for texture but also normal maps and displacement maps. In regards to the diameter...thats were the tweaking and laying out of the uvs come in...for example the demo head I was playing with...I transformed the model into a more cylindrical type shape and then played around for a bit placing the seam up the Y axis to unwrapp in a cylindrical typed map...then more tweaking with the map to size. The key is going to be in laying out the uv's...zbrush not going to the best at this...this I plan on using modo for...more control over layout...there are also some programs fo like 50 bucks out there that layout the uvs..but blender is the best bet....hope this makes sense somewhat as I am fairly new to UV mapping.Other issue with zbrush is there is no method for sizing...organic modelor need to play around with more precise unit sizs .

LG could chime in...I am sure he knows this cold