MOI 3d

[jpaluck]

Just made this in MOI..then took to zbrush for some smoothing. I have always wanted to make these type of scrolls for a while but have had a mental block. Not toally satisfied with this...but getting closer...practice practice..like anything else.

LG - if you want to chime in and tell me how to do this in quads I would love it...total mental block there.

[LittleRedWoodshop]

That is awesome ... a really nice pattern, as usual, John.

[b.sumner47]

John, Great work as always. Capt Barry

[RogerB]

Look great you do nice work.

[eelamb]

Really nice work John, been playing with moi tonight too. Nothing any good has come of it but hey with each piece of junk you learn something. (what I have no clue:))

[jpaluck]

Thanks for the nice comments guys.

Think I'm going to take this scroll further and design some kind of ornate mirror frame out of it...but definitly gonna keep practicing these darn things...I have avoided them for a long time..there a lot of twisting tapering and bending in these things ...was always a mental block.

[tcough3475]

Interesting program and great results. How do you import into designer? Planning on downloading the demo and like the advertising. I'm a CAD guy by trade, not so much on the graphics side of the business and MOI seems to be selling itself as more CAD friendly.

What are your thoughts on the package? Seems like an inexpensive alternative to some of the others out there.

[eelamb]

I use MoI 3D for most of my work. Even if it is just to get the outline and heights before sculpting in ZBrush. If you go to their forum you will see much more usages of it, from building full models of planes, tanks etc. And yes it does act like a 3d cad program.

As to getting the objects into designer, MoI 3D has an exporter to STL (save as and choose the output format). You would need to get the STL importer for the Designer software. It also has other export formats too, thus you can work on the items designed in other programs if you desire.

[jpaluck]

Interesting program and great results. How do you import into designer? Planning on downloading the demo and like the advertising. I'm a CAD guy by trade, not so much on the graphics side of the business and MOI seems to be selling itself as more CAD friendly.

What are your thoughts on the package? Seems like an inexpensive alternative to some of the others out there.

I was just gettn ready to put up a post and saw your comments. The thing I love about MOI is the simplicity. The developer has intentionally kept it very slim and simple to use. The UI has to be the most stripped down of any nurbs 3d packages. It is sort aimed at beginners but there a alot of folks with a lot CAD experience that try it and love it. It's like rhino without all the clutter and the price.

Moi just added 2 new commands flow and twist..twist is pretty cool has an ease in ease feature simliar to modo - other cool part the developer is very active in the forum and makes changes fairly quick with some things..least you have ear to bend. I just played around with twist and flow today and was suprised how fast I made this Ice cream cone..was done - modelled and imported into designer with stl importer in 15-20 min. I made some notes on screen shot to give an idea of the modeling in Moi

[liquidguitars]

Nice job! control and power of surfaces...

[eelamb]

John as always great pattern. I downloaded the newest MoI beta tonight. That twist is great.

[jpaluck]

Just finished this one..will make a nice project..have to give credit to jason for the reference image and Idea

[ibewiggin]

Wow! I love it! That would make a great pen holder as well. Replace the bell with a flute for a pen. I downloaded the moist trial but didn't play long enough to figure out how to use it effectively.

[LittleRedWoodshop]

That is very cool ... as usual.

[eelamb]

One word John Amazing.

[mtylerfl]

Hi John,

I'm really enjoying watching what you create! You are very skilled and creative. Question...the photo-realistic renderings...are those being done in MOI also?

[jpaluck]

Thanks Guys.

Michael - No moi has no render engine - just modeling. I have QUITE a ways to go with rendering. Moi outputs many different formats like stl, obj, 3ds, lwo,step,sat..and more...I have been having the best luck straight out of moi without having to play with any of the normals in a polygon modelor - sometime the normals get flipped on certain things - with .lwo. A pretty good free one to check out is Kerkthea http://www.kerkythea.net/joomla/index.php

[mtylerfl]

Thanks Guys.

Michael - No moi has no render engine - just modeling. I have QUITE a ways to go with rendering. Moi outputs many different formats like stl, obj, 3ds, lwo,step,sat..and more...I have been having the best luck straight out of moi without having to play with any of the normals in a polygon modelor - sometime the normals get flipped on certain things - with .lwo. A pretty good free one to check out is Kerkthea http://www.kerkythea.net/joomla/index.php

Thank you for the link, John. So, is this the renderer you are using?

[jpaluck]

Michael,

Sometimes yes, other times no...the ice cream cone for example is rendered in zbrush, In the newest release they made huge changes to the render engine. I signed up for digital tutors a while ago and never thought about rendering zbrush till I saw a videos there. Lux render and blender is another one I use. The latest one I have been playing with and think i'm going to settle on is Modo - not so much for the rendering but I love the modeling. The other thing I love to do is poly painting zbrush and render..lol the frustrated painter in me. It's pretty fun..you can render in zbrush or create uv map and export uv map out and render elsewhere. I kinda like that half cartoonish / half real world look which I have not been able to acheive yet..lol..working on it. As far as rendering I have a long way to go.

[Alan Malmstrom]

I have gone over the ZBrush website and I must say that I find it very interesting. I think I will get this program to do 3D stuff one day.

Alan

[TerryT]

John that is just awesom. Great work.

[mtylerfl]

Thanks for the additional info, John. I installed the newest ZBrush (4R2)a few weeks ago...just can't find time to play with it yet! Lots of cool new features...when/if they make the full integration with Sculptris, it is going to be even better. I have noticed that you can now go directly from Sculptris to ZBrush via the GoZ plugin...that's sort of a sign of things to come, I think.

[eelamb]

Alan get sculptris from Zbrush site it is free. It will get you going in modeling such as zbrush does.

[Alan Malmstrom]

I just came back from downloading it. I kept on trying to see how much it costed but found no price, just a download button. Looks pretty cool. I wonder if you can render something with it that would be suitable for a heightmap copy and paste. You know somehow get an ex-ray type appearance to it so it could be used as a heightmap.

Alan

[eelamb]

Alan sculptris is free and no rendering in it.

[jpaluck]

Thanks for the additional info, John. I installed the newest ZBrush (4R2)a few weeks ago...just can't find time to play with it yet! Lots of cool new features...when/if they make the full integration with Sculptris, it is going to be even better. I have noticed that you can now go directly from Sculptris to ZBrush via the GoZ plugin...that's sort of a sign of things to come, I think.

They already did in the newest version..thats what dynamesh is..dynamic testalastion. The goz plugin is nice...I tried out 3dsmax while back goz is awsome..no import export export..same with modo. Next version 5 they releasing 64 bit...Thats gonna be real nice dying to all 12gb of ram I bought

Alan definitly start with sculptris..true zbrush has more features but sculptris is a very solid program to get started with..and to see if you like modeling..the ui learing curve in zbrush is steep one..so many damn options...other program to check out is 3d coat..they have a lot of the same features plust the retopo is really cool..you can start a sculpt, bring it to the retoplogy room, tweak add etc polygons bring back to the sculpt room..kinda get it all hard surface modeling and organic sculpting..and anyone can get an education liscence for 99 bucks..only limits size for exporting texture maps and 7 layers versus unlimited.

Zbrush and sculptis alone are very hard to produce cnc patterns out of...you need a true modelor in conjunction with them..ie make your base mesh in silo,blender, moi etc...then sculpt.

[Alan Malmstrom]

Alan sculptris is free and no rendering in it.

Oh I see, I'm a dumby when it comes to 3D. I know jpaluck put up a video on how to render your truck but I didn't understand it because I don't know anything about zbrush.

I'll play around with the sculptress for a while and watch some videos on it.

Thanks, Alan

[eelamb]

Alan that is the bad part of the software, learning what each package offers.

[jpaluck]

A few people have asked me for the fire dept patterns/project. It's done and on my new website. My site is about 90% done and I am in the process of uploading patterns and finishing some minor things. Let me know what you guys think of my new site. Built it from scratch solo. I hated the old one but hey..first one. New hobby ..lol web sites. Anyone looking to build an online store look at prestashop. Pretty good software..opensource and fairly easy to manipulate the code to make it do what you want.

http://www.carvepattern.com/en/23-fire-deparrtment-project.html

Michael..the pic below was done in zbrush. If you go to the bpr render settings and play around with shadows and ambient occlusion, lights, and the materials, you can get some pretty neat results.

[Alan Malmstrom]

Wow John

You sure got some nice looking patterns on your site. Lots of detail in that stuff. Good looking web site too.

Alan

[liquidguitars]

Nice work!

[mtylerfl]

Michael..the pic below was done in zbrush. If you go to the bpr render settings and play around with shadows and ambient occlusion, lights, and the materials, you can get some pretty neat results.

Cool, John! I am determined to play with my ZBrush sometime this week!

I love your new website, too. Very, very nice! Great job on the layout, graphics and, of course, your patterns!

[gregsolano]

Great project! I have a bandsaw but what do you mean by project available in .ai ? Is that Adobe Illustrator? Unfortunately I am limited to Paint.net in both my abilities and my software. I want to learn 3d modeling in the future as well as higher end graphics programs.

[jpaluck]

Thanks for all the nice comments guys..LOL the web was a learning experience for sure.

Greg - what I mean by .ai (adobe illustator) and a band saw, thereare 2 peices to the project you could open the .ai file and print out. Once printed, you could use spray stick 3mm to attach the pattern to your wood and cut on the band saw..saves a little bit of time. Two of the peices can be cut this way. If no band saw the whole thing can be done on the cw.

[LittleRedWoodshop]

http://i44.servimg.com/u/f44/14/04/28/42/fullsc51.jpg

[jpaluck]

I recently set myself up as a re-seller for for Moi3d. I was to get a 10% discount off the price for CW users. If any one is interested the link below is to my new store where I am selling the software. It has to be bought thru my store to get the 10% off but all support etc is the same as buying direct off the Moi site. As far as 3d programs goes this program is one of the simplest to learn and relatively speaking...lol..in regards to 3d programs..one of the cheaper ones. Moi has a 30 day fully functioning trial so you can try before you buy. It also exports a very nice .stl mesh, so it goes great with the .stl importer.

Here is the link http://www.carvepattern.com/en/34-moi3d.html

I plan on putting some video tutorials on making some patterns using Moi in the near future.

If anyone has any questions please feel free to drop me a pm or e-mail me thru my site info@carvemore.com

Also included a couple pictures of a custom pattern I just finished of the space shuttle done in Moi.

[mtylerfl]

That's great, John! I think that's a terrific value for getting into 3D. Hope you sell a ton and I'm sure everyone is looking forward to your tutorials.

Super job on the Shuttle model too - cool!

[jpaluck]

This one was fun. Sweep central..lol I know MT knows about sweeps. The whole model was done in Moi with a little smoothing in zbrush. This one is fairly big 38 inches by 7 inches height and .75 depth. Be a long carve I'm sure. Actually easy to model..just a lot of sweeps..

Have it for sale if anyone wants it http://www.carvepattern.com/en/35-decorative-bar-1.html

[Alan Malmstrom]

This one was fun. Sweep central..lol I know MT knows about sweeps. The whole model was done in Moi with a little smoothing in zbrush. This one is fairly big 38 inches by 7 inches height and .75 depth. Be a long carve I'm sure. Actually easy to model..just a lot of sweeps..

Have it for sale if anyone wants it http://www.carvepattern.com/en/35-decorative-bar-1.html

That is very nice work. I enjoy making those kinds of organic leafy designs.

I wonder what a sweep is though. Is it where an indetation carves into a raised area and gets smaller as though it is carved out like sweeping a broom across it?

Alan

[jpaluck]

Alan - I made a quick video of what a sweep. It's basically a a command in nurbs where you are sweeping a profile along a curve...there are one rail and two rail sweeps which I did in the video so you can see what I am talking about. You can actually use multiple profiles...I just it realy quick to give you an idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NViwUy5mKAk

[eelamb]

Here is another example of sweeps. As John said it is taking a profile and sweeping it along a curve or rail. It can be a single profile, or multiple profiles on a single rail or 2 rails.

John as always great work on the model.

[jpaluck]

I just finished making a quick tutorial on how to make a flower pattern in Moi 3d. It's a total of 3 parts. It covers starting to importing into into Designer. Hope it helps some folks. The pattern is also attached.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBncXEhPRkY&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJSUTnAe6bc&feature=BFa&list=ULrBncXEhPRkY &lf=mfu_in_order


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYUpHV3Ti1M&feature=BFa&list=ULUJSUTnAe6bc &lf=mfu_in_order

[dbfletcher]

Sweet! I finally agot around to installing MOI 3D tonight. Can't wait to follow your tutorials. Looks like most of the concepts are the same as other 3D programs I have used... just a matter of understanding the interface and where options are placed.

[jpaluck]

Doug you will love the UI in Moi..so easy to understand compared to other programs...you will probably find it stripped down in comparison. The developers goal is to keep it simple and uncluttered. Here is a good link to a breakdown of each command http://moi3d.com/2.0/docs/moi_command_reference.htm

[eelamb]

John nice vid's, I am always learning new techniques from you.

[jpaluck]

Ok here is another moi tutorial. Hope not boring you guys..lol. This one is how to make a fleur de lis. The patterns is also attached.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcnDuFXGnB8&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwrT216GHRs&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1hhZ0_7gP8

[Kenm810]

Not Boring at all John, I love to learn from guys like you and this forum --- I/We need all the help we can get.

[liquidguitars]

Nice work you guys...

[eelamb]

Moi3D version 3.0 has been released http://moi3d.com/ Cost for full version is $295, and the upgrade from version 2.0 to 3.0 is $100.00. If you had purchased version 2.0 software after May 1 of 2014, the upgrade to version 3.0 will be free.

[rcdages]

Nothing short of Good John.

[Capt Bruce]

Very impressive John,

You are gaining mastery with every new project.

[zan29]

This is the reference page I used to learn Moi3d and still use it from time to time.
http://moi3d.com/2.0/docs/moi_command_reference7.htm#project

[mtylerfl]

Folks are replying to John's message from Dec 2011. The stuff is still good though! :)

[blhutchens]

Maybe a good way to bump a thread so people like me who need to be building their own models will look at them.

[eelamb]

Michael, I noticed that. My intent was to let those that own MoI3d know the new version is available and the cost. If anyone is interested in MoI3d, then look at post #52 (zan) and follow the link to see what MoI3d can do.

And by all means John's work is outstanding.

[jpaluck]

Thanks Eddie

I also am a reseller and set it up as a bit of a discount if anyone is interested in MOI. I would suggest playing with the trial for 30 days. The price is worth the drawing tools alone IMO.

http://www.carvepattern.com/en/34-moi3d.html

[mtylerfl]

John and Eddie,

I have Silo. Do either one of you have an opinion how it compares to MOI? (i.e., which do you think is "better")

[jpaluck]

Hi Michael,

Silo is a quad modeler and Moi is nurbs. It is like comparing apples to an orange. Nurbs is for more precise things such as a gear or say a laundry degergent bottle. Moi is exactly like Rhino without the bloat. The guy who developed Moi also helped develop Rhino way back. Quads -Silo- is more suited for organic objects like faces and heads flowers plants scrolls filagree's etc.

They are two very different syles of modeling. With nurbs you are drawing the surfaces out of curves and with quads you making surfaces by moving faces points and edges. As fas using for CNC work both have their place and are very powerful.

Even though I have Aspire I do all of my drawing in Moi then export into Aspire. Download the trial and play with the drawing tools and you will see what I mean.

I use Moi quite a bit for stuff. I use a few different programs - Moi, Modo, Zbrush, Aspire - I found not one program will do it all or do it all great. Each has their strong suit and are easy to combine and work between.

If I had it to do over again when I got into modeling I would have started with Quads and mastered them.There is NOTHING you cant do in quads...just takes a lot of practice and a learing curve. But once you have a grasp on them they are su much easier for modeling stuff. For example if you need to make a change there is no re-drawing a profile etc...just grab the point edge or face and tweak. I find them way faster to get organic stuff done. Like filagrees decorative scrolls etc - they are done very fast in quads. Import picture as background image - trace main shapes - extrude and then tweak shape.

If you getting into silo and need some help let me know - frustrating part is nothing out there about modeling 2.5d in quads for cnc. But it is the same as full 3d just a bit harder because you have a more confined space in the Z.

[mtylerfl]

Thank you for the excellent detailed explanation, John. Glad I got Silo...seems it is indeed more suited for the organic modeling. I have played with it (only for about an hour after I bought it several months ago), and it seemed pretty user friendly. I just haven't had the need to use it for creating relief models (ArtCAM, Aspire and the CW modeling suite have been sufficient, thus far).

However, I do feel the need to start paying more attention to full 3D modeling. You know I already have ZBrush, but I don't use that much either anymore (again, been spending all my time doing 2.5D reliefs).

I have been enjoying the NextEngine scanner, and am doing a lot more in the 3D realm with that too - probably will get a 3D printer at some point. Waiting to find a really good one for a 'reasonable' price (under $4K). The mainstream 'consumer' versions I've seen don't yield anywhere near the quality I desire.

In any case, there is a strong movement towards more full 3D not only for CNC but the 3D printing, so I want to catch up and get on the bleeding edge of things.

I probably need to get with you sometime on the Blender plugin thing for converting full-3D to relief. Been so long since I goofed with that, I forgot how to use it.

[jpaluck]

Hey Michael,

If you going to do full 3d what types of things are looking to make? Moi is very well suited for 3d printing. Moi and Nurbs in general are mechanical. But, that being said it is semi organic like car bodys and such. It's along the lines of Inventor Revit and Rhino.

Keep your eye out for the next release and last of V4 w Zbrush. They going to have quad modeling built in....looks like I will never have to leave zbrush...will see.

Silo is a great modelor for the basics. Once you get into to it you probably want to look at Modo Max Maya or Lightwave for more bells and whistles in the modeling dept. But Silo is great place to start. As far as the big boys of 3d modelling my suggestion if you get into pick one and stay with it. They all pretty much will do the same stuff but UI on each is very different and a pain to learn.

Blender no problem..shoot me a pm and can set up a time and walk you thru it....if you have it loaded I can send you a file with the nodes all set up and all you have to do is swap out the model. I tried out the new version of Aspire with the similar bas relief render. It works great on some things and is very fast compared to blender but on a lot of things it lacks the detail you can get out of blender by tweaking the settings of the nodes etc. Figure the programmers w Aspire kept it simple and user friendly which makes sense.

[eelamb]

Micheal, if you stay with Silo, then I suggest spending the $35 for the book showing you its features. (see amazon for the silo 3d book). But once you learn quads, using silo you will quickly outgrow this stagnant program, for there is no longer any support for it, nor any new releases planned. Stick with what John is telling you on the quad programs for 3d models.

Silo is a great place to start for learning quads, and the book will take you through it's learning curve, giving you the basics for quad modeling and launching you to the next level in quads.

[zan29]

John, can we get a discount for the upgrade also?


Thanks Eddie

I also am a reseller and set it up as a bit of a discount if anyone is interested in MOI. I would suggest playing with the trial for 30 days. The price is worth the drawing tools alone IMO.

http://www.carvepattern.com/en/34-moi3d.html

[mtylerfl]

Micheal, if you stay with Silo, then I suggest spending the $35 for the book showing you its features. (see amazon for the silo 3d book). But once you learn quads, using silo you will quickly outgrow this stagnant program, for there is no longer any support for it, nor any new releases planned. Stick with what John is telling you on the quad programs for 3d models.

Silo is a great place to start for learning quads, and the book will take you through it's learning curve, giving you the basics for quad modeling and launching you to the next level in quads.

Thanks, Eddie. I'll check it out.

EDIT:
Found it...ordered it...will be on my doorstep Oct 4.

[jpaluck]

Hey Zan

No discount on the upgrade. The sale is directly thru the developer

[eelamb]

Michael it is a good book and the only one ever written. Silo 3d was a great development, but the programmers lost focus and took on other avenues. I bought mine is 09 right about the time version 2 came out, and shortly after that version 2.2 came out. That was the last upgrade to their software, the forum has been moved to gcsociety and still gets some posts there. The tutorials on their site by Glen Southern's are great, as well as the others on the nevercenter website.I found the book to be a great asset and learned a lot from it.
It is sad when a great program comes out only to be dropped by the development team.

I still use silo, Oh do not try the STL export and use it in designer, it just does not work. Nor will it read most other STl files.

Try Moi3d I believe you will love it. Remember the fancy boxes I made, they were all made using MoI3d. See this link http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?19469-Ed-Lamb-s-Patterns-Store/page10 with post 182, 184 and again on post 136. All done with MoI3d.