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Wood Butcher
01-16-2007, 08:05 PM
Paramount on the list would be providing a ground conductor.
Static was discussed elsewhere on this forum and with computers and servo drives good bonding to ground is a must.

If the CW guys see this, please comment. I donít want to put a bullet in my warranty.

Second would be an air curtain blowing the chips over the uncut portion to be sucked out by a dust collector.

Third would be a combination surge suppressor, current sensing outlet that will detect the increase amp draw of the CW motor and switch on separate outlets for the vacuum system and air curtain solenoid. If the CW motor is running the vacuum and air will start automatically.
I do this stuff all the time.

Fourth would be a logging ammeter. My fluke DVM has this feature and increased amp draw would indicate bit wear, flex shaft binding and other potential problems.

I will be adding to the list later.
Cry Havoc and Let the chips fly.

Digitalwoodshop
01-16-2007, 09:00 PM
How about a CCTV camera under the hood or contacts for a E Stop if you are remote viewing. If you lift the hood will that stop the unit?

AL

pkunk
01-16-2007, 09:13 PM
All this is interresting stuff, and maybe useful and probably included on high $$ machines.
"If you lift the hood will that stop the unit? "
Yes.

Digitalwoodshop
01-16-2007, 09:34 PM
That looks like my in to a E stop.... A solenoid and spring linkage to remotely lift the lid if I see a problem from the House. I don't mean to obsess about a remote E stop but it has merit. AL

lex227
01-16-2007, 11:46 PM
How would you suggest an "air curtain" be set up?

Wood Butcher
01-17-2007, 09:51 PM
Al,
There are a few CCD cheap cameras at supercurcuits.com some are a 900meg wireless.
Also you can check out leviton, the outlet and switch people. They have a power line control line of switches and outlets that you can operate via a signal transmitted over the power wires. The switch and receiving outlet must be wired on the same phase. Otherwise you must install a coupling capacitor across L1 and L2 in the main breaker panel to pass the signal. Expect a second delay for operation. There is your remote E-Stop without dragging around a lot of wire.

Pkunk,
These mods are not as expensive as you would think. I could do all of them in less than a day for under $200.00.
Less compressor and vacuum.

Lex,
The air curtain is simple.
Take a section of 3/16 brass tubing from the hobby shop. Solder on a few tangs for mounting. Use a dremel tool with a cutoff blade to make a few slots lengthwise in the brass tube tubing. Orient the slots to blow across the carving face out the back of the CW machine. Install a REGULATED air supply and adjust the pressure to clear the chips.
A vacuum hood sucking up on the back will clear the chips.

More goodies to come.

David M.
01-17-2007, 10:07 PM
The system is actualy set up for a down draft type dust collector already. You just have to make a gasket to seal the bottom to a down draft setup. There are some pictures of some in the forum.

Wood Butcher
01-17-2007, 10:26 PM
David,
I thought about that.
The primary source of the chips is on the top of the stock.
The air would ďfluidizeĒ, if you will, the flying chips funneling them toward the rear of the machine on top of the work piece. Rather than pulling the chips through the bottom of the machine and risking buildup in the drive belts and other components, I want to clear them out the rear.
Iíll let you know how it works.

menewfy
01-18-2007, 07:51 AM
What about setting up a vacum to the front of the machine if you modified the cover it could get rid of the chips right away. just a thought

BobHill
01-18-2007, 08:24 AM
I forget who, but one of the Beta purchasers did cut a hole in the cover and attached his shopvac to it, which he stated worked like a charm. Another made a vacuum box for the CW to sit on and attached his shopvac to it. I've never had an operational problem due to sawdust buildup during a work session, but I've sure had it get pretty dirty with sawdust and powder that I had to vacuum out afterward. One of these days, I'll get to making a vacuum box though I'm sure.

Bob

Wood Butcher
01-18-2007, 09:31 AM
Bob,
Youíre the Man.
I truly enjoyed our conversation the other day. Thanks for helping out Gary too.
Some of the mods Iím working on weíll have to put on your machine.
I also thought about the issue of blow out when you are carving out the stiles for the windows. Have you tried treating the surface with a thin poly finish before carving?
The poly will bind the ligin in the wood acting like a backer.
I have used this method with thinned epoxy and veneer to create a cellulose/epoxy composite. Strong and waterproof.

Iím sorry that we didnít have the time to get together but I get up your way once in a while. Momma says no more 12 hours days.
I still owe you lunch. I hope you like Bar B Q.

BobHill
01-18-2007, 09:45 AM
Thanks, Fred, any time. Bar B Q sounds great. Pretty soon we'll have a regular Florida division of the CarveWright club <g>. And there is a lot to bounce around in the idea department.

I've not been preparing the wood before I've been carving. That's something I'll have to try. I can see where when just cutting, it could well strengthen the ultra small parts I have to make, but it wouldn't help if ther was also carving involved would it? Or would the poly absorbed perhaps help there too being the thickness would be something like 3/32" ? Perhaps it would and thus carving would be like carving resin or the likes.

Since I'm the one that tells the wife to quit with the 12 hour days (she works a 10/4 week regularly), the only 12 hour days I do are volunterily and only doing the things I want to do ...

Bob

Wood Butcher
01-18-2007, 09:58 AM
Bob,
Youíre a lucky man.
Even if I retired right now I still have a few years of others projects to complete.

Depending on the porosity of the wood your using and how much you thin the poly will determine the depth of penetration.
I still think that the other process we talked about would be the best solution.
Please keep that one between us.

BobHill
01-18-2007, 10:49 AM
I may be retired, but I'm finding (as I'm sure others also have) that I have far more projects to complete now, than ever before and I just took on another one ... I'm now taking lessons on classical guitar, no less <g>.

And right you are, on the other thing.

Bob

HighTechOkie
01-18-2007, 11:32 AM
I would think a 1" or 1.5" vacuum hose tied to the z axis would prove most effective at waste removal and require the least amount of CFM to keep the area clean.

As for the Leviton, X10, Zwave etc. switches... keep in mind these have a 2-3second delay before responding to a command. I would not use this as an e-stop option as the damage will have already been done by the time the relay could turn off.

I like the idea of putting a camera on the machine. I would avoid the 900Mhz wireless stuff though. Picture quality and interference around 900Mhz give poor results. Stick with the 2.4Ghz stuff that is better at dealing with interference. In general, I doubt either wireless camera would work well as I suspect there is a LOT of emf that would overpower the wireless transmitter.

Rob

Wood Butcher
01-19-2007, 03:12 PM
Rob,

I thought about both the air and vacuum attached to the Z axis.
The thought of adding any additional mass to the cutter head makes me cringe.
The smallest amount extra weight will result in increased torque demand on the servos or stepper motors. Plus at 22,000 RPM any vibration will be magnified the further the air or suction line is from the primary point of connection. Any vibration will induce bit chatter and effect the intended tool path. Also the connecting link to the air or vacuum attachment must be very flexible and not impede the cutter head movement.
When I design a system my first concern is achieving the desired operation and the second is look at what I think will break first.

The Leviton switches I think will do what Al wanted in an acceptable price range.
Yes there is a delay. If that delay is not acceptable, then I would install current transducers on all the motors, write the code to monitor them and establish the acceptable operating ranges. Then I would install a laser light curtain around the machine and interlock the entire circuit with a shunt trip breaker.
We have to be reasonable.

The wireless camera was for portability. I would go for a wired camera mounted in a grounded case with the coax routed through grounded copper tubing. Iíve had to route signal cables this way to provide EMF shielding.

Thanks for your input.

Digitalwoodshop
01-19-2007, 09:45 PM
I agree, delay is not that big a deal when you are hundreds of feet away. Something is better than nothing for a E stop.

The additional weight of a vacuum and blower hose, that bothers me too. I wanted to add a air blower to my 13 year old laser engravers. They now call it "Air Assist" to blow out the flame up. I wanted to use 1/4 inch brown surgical tubing. The dealer and tech said I would smoke my stepper motor drive, others have.

What about a wide thin gap pipe 14 inches wide hooked to a dust collector just in front of the cutter? Like a carpet cleaning wand, wide but thin?

AL

Wood Butcher
01-19-2007, 09:52 PM
Al,
Iíll put one together and send you the pictures.
If I can find the part numbers for the switches I will forward that to you also.
Its all about helping a brother out.
:D

menewfy
01-21-2007, 07:57 PM
hey guys just a thought

what if the exhaust was turned from going out the back to pointing into the machine, this in my mind might accomplish two things

1. it would keep it heated up for some folks like myself that are going to use it in the garage.

2. it would solve the circulation issue for getting the bits away from the board and perhaps direct it towards the downdraft, if a vac was hooked up.

is there any reason that this would not work?
would it make it more quite?

thanks
tim

Wood Butcher
01-22-2007, 03:57 PM
Tim,

I have designed and worked on a lot of different machines.
The exhaust port is just that. The ambient air is drawn in to cool the motor and then passes out the exhaust port. Any ďafter the factĒ plenum to direct this air from the exhaust port to the work piece will reduce the CFM of the cooling air and possibility raise the temperature of the cooling air. You start a vicious cycle where the cooling fan will re-circulate heated air and reduce the cooling coefficient. This will lead to motor overheating.

As to down draft suction for clearing chips.
I would rather blow the chips off the working surface and on to the floor than pull them down through the drive belts, bearing and other equipment in the bottom of the machine.

A lot of my customers have learned this lesson the hard way.

Wood Butcher
01-26-2007, 07:51 AM
WOW!!!
Do I feel special.
Some idiot chose my thread to add their link to a sex blog.
It must have been all the discussion about blowing and sucking.
(WOOD CHIPS)
Iím glad that Iím not that hard up to feel the need to display my goodies.
I will add a pic of one of my other projects. (non wood related)

The Bard
01-26-2007, 09:01 AM
I suddenly feel inadequate...

Wood Butcher
01-26-2007, 09:19 AM
Bard,

It isnít the size brother, :shock:
I got into electronics so I could come home clean. Well maybe a few solder splatters on my pants.
As it turned out I now go to work with a hard hat, tool belt, laptop and digital scope.
I get to drive Big Iron, travel all over and design equipment and processes that define the art.
I love what I do and my customers are impressed with the quality of my service.
We all hopefully find our nitch in life doing what we enjoy.
I have. And the best part is I get to write off most of my toys.