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bergerud
08-22-2011, 11:55 PM
Every time I look at who is logged on the the forum there is between 5 and 10 times more guests logged on than members. Who are these people? Are they mostly Carvewright owners or potential owners? I suppose there is no way to know. It seems that a very small fraction of Carvewright owners are forum members. I guess if you can access all the forum information and file downloads without signing up, there is no reason to sign up!

I would think some forum members might be offended by all of these quests who only take and do not contribute. They do not offer any carving patterns, repair tips, or techniques. I wonder if it would be a bigger and more diverse community if they had to sign up to download files. Once signed up, I bet many of these quests would contribute.

I would be interested to hear what you think about these quests.

fwharris
08-23-2011, 12:12 AM
I believe most are CW owners. I have spoken with a lot of people who said "yes" they know about the forum and "visit" often to get great information. Some are not "out going" as most who post and in some respects as computer savy either. Some also do not login until they want/need to post.

I guess I will have to try getting on with out the log in to see about being able to download, not sure if that works or not...

EDIT: WELL I GUESS YA CAN....

bergerud
08-23-2011, 12:42 AM
Anybody can download from this forum. I think other forums require membership. I suppose it is in LHR's best interest to offer this anonymous service to its customers but it is really the "forumoholics" that make it work. I am not sure that the setup is fair to those members who work so hard on this forum.

Woodripper
08-23-2011, 06:27 AM
As a "newbie" most of the time I have not logged-in in the past and am sure I was listed as a guest. I come to the forum and have learned so much from everyone just by reading. Thanks to all for sharing.

pkunk
08-23-2011, 08:59 AM
The majority of them are Bots & Spiders. Some are spammers, which when identified by their Ip address, are banned by a Mod. A few are potential or shy CW owners.

lawrence
08-23-2011, 09:42 AM
As a "newbie" most of the time I have not logged-in in the past and am sure I was listed as a guest. I come to the forum and have learned so much from everyone just by reading. Thanks to all for sharing.

And WELCOME to you!

We would love to hear more about your experiences- thanks for speaking up and again, we always enjoy hearing more

Lawrence

atauer
08-23-2011, 09:50 AM
The majority of them are Bots & Spiders. Some are spammers, which when identified by their Ip address, are banned by a Mod. A few are potential or shy CW owners.

That is exactly what it is. Bots and Spiders actually help the forum get listed sooner on most search engines, and most of the guest activity you see are bots and spiders that are pulling search information for a search engine, like google or yahoo. Then there are the spammers, as pkunk stated. Most of the time, the spammers are caught by their IP address. The remainders are people researching or simply just too shy to sign up.

pkunk
08-23-2011, 10:13 AM
If you click on the 'xx users online' it will bring up the page that identifies all the users, guests & Bots & Spiders along with their IP addresses.

lynnfrwd
08-23-2011, 10:18 AM
We do have "good" spiders, but I actually looked at those online early this morning and out of the 90 something that were online at the time, I only counted about 6 spiders from google & msn. I was pleasantly surprised.

At one time, we had it so that you could only see attachments & download links, if you logged on. Unfortunately, that kept potential customers from looking at things like My Albums. I would like to see more people actually logged in, but this forum is a tool for sales, as well as support.

I do think we have a lot of people just looking and with all of the attention we have gotten recently on the other forums like CNCZone, Sawmill Creek, routerforum, and others, I do think we have quite a few guests.

Because of spammers, we have to have it so that you cannot post until you are listed as a registered user and logged into the system.

GrammaPam
08-23-2011, 10:21 AM
Sometimes I actually log out to view the posts that didn't get read earlier in the day. Only the posts since last viewing show up when you are signed on. If you didn't have time to read them all you don't know how all the problems and projects are going.
G.P.

bergerud
08-23-2011, 10:23 AM
If true, I guess that answers the question "Who are these guests?" If they are mostly bots and spiders then these numbers mean little. I am not sure, however, that I buy that. If that were true, the number views that different posts get would be more uniformly distributed. Instead, when you look at the numbers, it looks like the numbers are driven by human interest. Do other forums have the same member to quest ratio as this forum?

atauer
08-23-2011, 10:27 AM
I am actually a member of several other forums besides this one. One in particular has a low membership, but the threads have high views. I believe that it counts all times that the thread link is actually opened/viewed, not just by forum members, but by guests as well.

TerryT
08-23-2011, 10:39 AM
If true, I guess that answers the question "Who are these guests?" If they are mostly bots and spiders then these numbers mean little. I am not sure, however, that I buy that. If that were true, the number views that different posts get would be more uniformly distributed. Instead, when you look at the numbers, it looks like the numbers are driven by human interest. Do other forums have the same member to quest ratio as this forum?

As you can see from my signature, I have a couple (actually three) websites. With the Wood Wisdom site inparticular I can tell just about everything there is to know about visitors on my site. I often monitor the number of visitors. Shortly after putting it up I checked the number of vistors on the site. I was thrilled to see 12 visitors on my site at the same time! When I logged into the cp I identified every single one of them as a spider of some sort. Some from search engines but most info (data miners?). No a single customer in the bunch. Bummer. I think that the larger the site or the more popular or higher rating sites get more of these bots at one time.

Having said that, I do know from giving the Start-u classes that there are a bunch of CW owners that use the forum only a little bit and never signed in.

woodchip
08-23-2011, 12:28 PM
well, I'm not offended by the guest looking. I'm one of those who are signed in but don't contribute to much. My patterns I make are not the quality of most, I take way to long to make a repair (I guess I'm afraid tomake a mistake), and don't think anything I have to offer is of that much quality. I do know that my patterns are getting better. my machine repair are being done by me, and I'm gaining knowledge all the time. I can only thank the forum for all that. In case I've received help from anyone and didn't thank them, I'm sorry but please know, you all have been a great help.
Don

jaroot
08-23-2011, 01:38 PM
Yeah, I do this sometimes also.


Sometimes I actually log out to view the posts that didn't get read earlier in the day. Only the posts since last viewing show up when you are signed on. If you didn't have time to read them all you don't know how all the problems and projects are going.
G.P.

Kenm810
08-23-2011, 02:04 PM
Just a quick Sampling

bergerud
08-23-2011, 03:46 PM
Wow - real data. I knew nothing of bots and spiders. I am happy to think less than half of the quests are bots. No one seemed to share my opinion that we should motivate these real quests to contribute. I'll bet there would be a huge increase in membership if they had to join to access our free patterns. After they joined I think we all would all benefit. More patterns to share, more fix it tips, more interesting techniques, and more positive feedback for the handful of senior members who have made this forum the success that it is.

Just an idea. Thank you all for jumping in to answer my quest question.

JDPratt
08-23-2011, 04:58 PM
I don't understand why being a guest who gleans information to either purchase a machine or use one is offensive. Heck, I've been a member since 2009 and I have limited posts and really don't have a lot to contribute in the way of repair knowledge or pattern help. My pattern contribution to date is "0" (zero). I just don't have the expertise or time to create them. That's why I rely on the wonderful help of the members with the knowledge to help me out. I try to always make it a point to compensate them for their time and effort when they help unless they decline. There are a large number of members here who have technical/electronic expertise or computer backgrounds that fully understand the inner workings of this machine and the computer programs necessary to make patterns. Many others (such as me) have no such background and don’t have the additional equipment/software to make that happen. By trade, I am a flat work woodworker and I do some turning (cabinet making, furniture, display cases, etc). I use the CW as I would any other tool in the shop. I use the forum to further my knowledge of the tool and to gain ideas for future projects, but as my projects (with or without CW) consume a tremendous amount of time, I just don’t have the time to go as deep as some of you are going. Even though I don’t contribute very much at all, without the forum, owning this machine would be impossible and I would be back to hand carving all the embellishments that go into some projects.

lynnfrwd
08-23-2011, 06:15 PM
We all have our own talents! Giving "atta boys" are just as important as creating a free pattern.

And if you don't say anything on here, that's fine too... Me? Well, sometimes I talk just a little too much!

bergerud
08-23-2011, 06:46 PM
On the contrary, with 364 posts, you are no guest JD. I just find it sad that there are so few active members while there are so many Carvewright users out there. I think there are thousands who use the forum and the expertise of the members and that's a good thing. Good for LHR and good for all those guests. It does not, however, do much for the active members. A guest cannot thank Al or Bud for saving their ***. A guest cannot post what they did with that wonderful pattern they found on the forum. I think credit should be given where credit is due. I guess I do find it a little offensive that people take and give nothing in return. But it's not that, I just think the forum could be better for all if more guests got on board.

lynnfrwd
08-23-2011, 09:04 PM
Do you think it might be something most are not comfortable using? Do we need a tutorial on how to use the forum? Tips and tricks maybe for the "soft" side of the business? Forum, groups, blogs, registration and re-registration, activation,etc?

lynnfrwd
08-23-2011, 09:06 PM
PS...any volunteers?!?!

dbfletcher
08-23-2011, 09:24 PM
I personally don't see a benefit in forcing people to become members. Everyone is free to contribute as much or as little as they feel comfortable with. Some are sure paranoid with giving out any personal info... and that is fine.. some may just feel overwhelmed with the talent of many of the members. Many feel they probably cant offer anything. But as their confidence grows.. so does the urge to "showcase" what they have done... or when the discover a great tip they haven't seen mentioned before. Those are the things that will drive the guests to become members.

Lets continue to just let them join on their own terms. (one mans opinion)

jaroot
08-23-2011, 09:26 PM
My thoughts exactly!


I personally don't see a benefit in forcing people to become members. Everyone is free to contribute as much or as little as they feel comfortable with. Some are sure paranoid with giving out any personal info... and that is fine.. some may just feel overwhelmed with the talent of many of the members. Many feel they probably cant offer anything. But as their confidence grows.. so does the urge to "showcase" what they have done... or when the discover a great tip they haven't seen mentioned before. Those are the things that will drive the guests to become members.

Lets continue to just let them join on their own terms. (one mans opinion)

eelamb
08-23-2011, 09:38 PM
Doug well said, I know in the beginning, I became a member but it took me awhile before I posted anything.

fwharris
08-23-2011, 09:43 PM
My thoughts exactly!

Same here!

As I posted before, some that I have had contact with just struggle with just doing email and it really is a stretch for them to participate in the WWW.

LittleRedWoodshop
08-23-2011, 09:48 PM
Ditto Doug ... I stalked this forum for a lonnnnggggg time before I signed up ... thank you to everyone for your help along the way.

TerryT
08-23-2011, 09:54 PM
I personally don't see a benefit in forcing people to become members. Everyone is free to contribute as much or as little as they feel comfortable with. Some are sure paranoid with giving out any personal info... and that is fine.. some may just feel overwhelmed with the talent of many of the members. Many feel they probably cant offer anything. But as their confidence grows.. so does the urge to "showcase" what they have done... or when the discover a great tip they haven't seen mentioned before. Those are the things that will drive the guests to become members.

Lets continue to just let them join on their own terms. (one mans opinion)

I think you hit the nail on the head Doug. After giving a few StartU classes and talking to a bunch of folks that are interested but still haven't taken a class I can say this..... There are a bunch of people out there that purchased a CW machine years ago and have never used it yet. In fact some haven't even unpacked it from the box. Some felt intimidated by the machine or just not ready to tackle it an put the machine on a shelf for the last 2 to 4 years. I'm sure there are a bunch that visit the forum as well but don't feel comfortable joining. They just want to check in and read a bit. Lets let them get more comfortable. They will join when they are ready.

lawrence
08-23-2011, 10:19 PM
My thoughts on this are that I lurk on several forums that I do not post on often or at all (believe it or not...) for several reasons. I have no problems with lurkers, I think of them as potential posters! (or potential customers for my work or the Carvewright itself) I'd like to think that I contribute here, as do others, and I think everyone has their own comfort level of participation. If anyone learns or enjoys one of my posts, my ego certainly enjoys the electronic "pat on the back", but I'm fine if they don't too.

Maybe we should have a "post your first post here, welcome new members" sticky. I know some forums do this (the woodwhisperer forum is one for example) and it seems to encourage lurkers to have a place to introduce themselves and get welcomed. Sometimes it can be a bit intimidating to post that first post... I know it was for me as I did not feel like my work was worthy of posting at first, but you guys are great motivators.

Lawrence

lawrence
08-23-2011, 10:21 PM
all right, this is embarassing... I just found the "welcome new members" area....

Oak Tech
08-24-2011, 10:50 AM
This forum is a great resource--please leave it alone as it is. There is nothing to say that forcing people to join is going to increase the contributions.

Bob (a registered member who automatically logs in but does not contribute very often)

Digitalwoodshop
08-24-2011, 11:05 AM
I have a un usual view of this... Since I offer Phone Tech Assist I have had a few phone calls from people that read the forum and never post... Some may have very well been guests.... I have walked them through fixes.... Many tell me they don't understand how to post with the new format....

My suggestion is that Forum How To Video be made and posted on the LHR in a easy to see format for the challenged users. Even I get overwhelmed with some computer stuff and I have been doing this for years...

AL

WRW
08-26-2011, 10:17 AM
I to was a long time lurker before joining this forum and then after the change in the forum I would log out to view the posts that didn't get read earlier in the day. It is often several days between having the time to sit down and enjoy the information that had been recently shared and there would be many pages and posts to go through. I have noticed that as I go through the posts last night and this morning that has been changed and I can stay logged in walk away and come back to continue enjoying the forum. (Thanks whoever)

I have not posted often in the forum as when I was first lurking I noticed that people would post a question and get an answer to the effect that "The question has been answered many times and they should search before asking." So I got into the habit of searching first (despite the frustration often caused by the limitations of the search engine on the forum) and would most often find the information I needed to answer my current question. And quite frequently get side tracked for hours reading other interesting posts that often answered questions I had not even thought to seek answers for yet.

Ok, I am starting to ramble on, so in short nothings perfect and I still believe this is One Of The Best Forums out there. Thanks once again to all the Old and New members whom have shared there knowledge, insight and sometimes zany and fun ideals.
Have a great day All.

jaroot
08-27-2011, 12:25 AM
I just figured out that if you "mark forum read" then you can select "new posts" and it will give you the option of listing all posts entered for the last 24 hrs without logging out. That way you can see the recent posts without being "a guest".

I'm sure that this is nothing new to most of you but I didn't know so I had been logging out and being one of the "guests".

fwharris
08-27-2011, 12:31 AM
Is this different than just clicking the What's New? box?

jaroot
08-27-2011, 12:47 AM
Yes. What's new will still bring you to the last few postings. But once you mark the forum read ( under the forum actions menu) when you select "new posts" or "what's new" you will be given the option to view all post entered in the last 24 hrs.

Kenm810
09-20-2011, 01:52 PM
11-20-11 2:45pm

Just took a quick look --There are currently 86 users online (http://forum.carvewright.com/online.php). 9 members and 77 guests

Of the 86 users online 42 were Spiders = nearly half :-?

dbfletcher
09-20-2011, 03:51 PM
And I've been reading some bad things on the baidu spider. What are your thoughts on it Eddie??

eelamb
09-20-2011, 04:15 PM
The baidu spider is from china, it is more of a nuisance than anything else, chewing up bandwidth of the site since it visits 20+ times per day. Initally it was thought to disregard the robot.txt and search all files/folders. But that was found to be not true. It can be stopped using the .htaccess environment command if webmaster of the site finds it is using too much bandwidth, which is slowing down access to his site. They want to be the next google search engine and they are pushing hard to get there.

lynnfrwd
09-20-2011, 05:13 PM
Seems like every time I block one set of IP #s, they come in with a new set.

fwharris
09-20-2011, 06:28 PM
And WOW do they ever have a long list of em on here!

Kenm810
09-20-2011, 06:29 PM
11-20-11 7:25pm Just Clicked on it agian -- There are currently 83 users online (http://forum.carvewright.com/online.php). 17 members and 66 guests
Of the 83 users online 46 were Spiders = more than half looks like their Gaining on us :???:

lynnfrwd
09-20-2011, 08:34 PM
I mentioned it to cmorlier and he is not worried about them. He said they were no harm.