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flemingswoodworks
08-10-2011, 07:47 PM
I've decided to sell my machine after all the parts I replace and I still show 0.00 on my Z and Y motors.....New Ztruck ....New controller...New circute boards that the FFC cable and Y and Z motors plug in...New FFC cable....anyone give me an Idea of what I should put my machine up for I was thinking ebay unless it would be better to sell on here..It might be a simple fix but I can't put anymore money into it my wife has been flippin over it...any advice on what to sell it for would be apreciated
Thanks Will

dbfletcher
08-10-2011, 07:55 PM
If your search the forums, you will see that generally a working machine in good condition typically sells for anywhere between $500-$700. A machine with any issues tends to go as a "parts" machine and sells for $300 or less. You might fair better on ebay... good luck! And let us know what you get if you decide to get another machine and how it works out for you.

flemingswoodworks
08-11-2011, 07:13 AM
Thanks for the advice..I would rather keep it and get it fixed with all the money I have into it, it would still be cheaper than buying a new cnc machine from a compeditor for WAY more money..granted they can do more but I don't need it for all the things they can do...2 guys on this forum had the same problem after replacing the controller and boards but they never posted the fix for the problems and never answered any of my emails..so it's an on going debate(argument) with the misses as to getting it fix she would rather I spend the money on the more expensive cnc machines with all the problems i've had with mine...but i'm more of the tight a$$ in the house..so this story is to be continued

Digitalwoodshop
08-11-2011, 11:37 AM
Did you ever un plug the Board Sensor Cable? Even if the tech has you pull up and down...

And you don't have a miss matched FFC Cable.... 18 pin plugged into a 14 pin jack.... It is something as simple as a Grey cable is a Grey cable.... No not really... 14 pins or 18 pins..... Almost sounds like a old 18 pin plugged into a new 14 pin jack....

CALL ME.... 570-685-WOOD... 9663 digitalwoodshop AT AOL. Com
Send me a email so I can send you some pictures to look at and look at your machine.... You may have mixed parts for a 14 pin and 18 pin FFC Cable system.... Wrong Circuit Board on one end.... Pictures will let you quickly look...

AL

flemingswoodworks
08-11-2011, 03:48 PM
just shot you an email
Thanks

Digitalwoodshop
08-11-2011, 06:37 PM
Got the email and IF I got it CORRECT.... LHR sold you a new 14 PIN FFC Cable..... You plugged it into your OLD 18 Pin System and SHORTED OUT YOUR COMPUTER..... You mentioned they then sold you the 2 circuit boards for the new 14 pin FFC Cable.... But after the Short CIRCUIT installing the correct circuit boards did you NO GOOD and you say your Y and Z read 0000 0000 even after you move the head manually...(Check That... Move the head)

I have posted this before but the LHR Play Book and Parts Book needs to have a WARNING that the person asking for a new FFC Cable MAY have the OLD 18 Pin FFC system and NO 18 Pin FFC Cables are carried anymore (As far as I Know, I got one of the First 14 pin wanting a 18 pin) Because this is not the first time that someone has posted that they got a 14 pin FFC cable and had the old 18 pin boards.... The wider 14 pin contacts SHORT OUT the THINNER 18 PIN Jack Contacts... Hence Shorting out the $300.00 Computer.... AND possibly the SERVO Power part of the Power Supply.

I would ask to talk to a Supervisor tomorrow.... The Play Book needs to be changed...

"Yes, we can help you with ordering a 14 pin FFC Cable. Let me ask you a few Questions about your machine first to determine the version YOU HAVE. What Color is the Jack that the FFC Cable plugs into on YOUR MACHINE....."

What a mess... I believe in the past the user was left to pay for fix themselves... A Black Eye for the Tech just needed to ASK the correct question BEFORE selling THAT PART. Proper Safeguards in the Play Book would help...

AL

Digitalwoodshop
08-11-2011, 07:16 PM
Just sent back a email.... Do the Carve Region Test if your machine is working at the moment... Not sure if it is.... Thinking the computer is blown? I am confused...

The test... A Rectangle Carve Region 1/4 inch deep. A Circle within the Carve region and make that a carve region with a depth of .01 just to skim it... Carve it.... Is it the Machine or the ART...?

AL

lynnfrwd
08-11-2011, 10:48 PM
Will you please forward that email to me? I will have more to say on this subject tomorrow.

lynnfrwd
08-12-2011, 01:21 PM
Well, I haven't gotten the email yet, but I promised more on this topic:

First a little background on the 18 pin cable.
1. LHR has not sold the 18 pin cable since 2007. The 18 pin cable is only on the A model machines that have not gotten the A907 upgrade.
2. The customer either needs to know if they have the A907 upgrade or not...OR they need to be near their machine when they call in so that we can help them figure it out.

Second, let me explain levels of technical support:
1. You only need to worry about what level of support your issue is, if you are not under warranty or not a member of the CarversClub (this is NOT Project of the Month).

2. Tier 1 level support is never charged. This includes product questions, placing orders (without lengthy diagnosis assistance), help with activations or downloads, Username & password issues, etc. that can be answered in a few minutes.

3. Tier 2 level support requires the customer be at their machine or computer and generally involves much more time with the technician who has a higher level of expertise. All of my customer support technicians should be able to answer both Tier 1 and Tier 2 issues. (I'm the only one that is not technical enough to support a Tier 2 machine issue.) Technicians can identify for you whether or not your issue is Tier 1 or Tier 2.

4. If your issue has been determined to be a Tier 2 level support issue, then we must determine:

A. Is the machine you are calling about under warranty?
B. Are you a member of the CarversClub?
C. Is this dealing with a part or service that is still under warranty (usually 30 days)?
D. Have you previously paid a $25 incident fee for this issue?

If answer to any of these questions is YES, then the technician will proceed with Tier 2 support.

5. If all of the answers to these questions are NO, then you are given the option of

A. Joining the CarversClub
CarversClub offers - unlimited phone support; 25% off any labor costs & a monthly special offer

B. Paying a $25 incident fee
Incident fee covers unlimited phone support, no matter how many calls it takes or how long it takes until THAT issue is resolved. Once resolved; the issue is closed.

Here is the bigger problem and something I have seen happen OVER and OVER again:

Customers often do not see the value in a $25 incident fee, but instead opt to "self diagnose" and begins ordering part after part to try and figure out what is wrong and what will fix the problem. This is sometimes weeks or months of troubleshooting, $100s of dollars in parts, most of which are then sent back to us for refund, because it didn't fix the issue. We honestly do try to help the customer, but at this point the customer is totally frustrated, so puzzled about what the issue is and fed up not wanting to invest another penny. It's totally understandable and many have done the same thing.

We are and have tried to assist Mr. Fleming. We would like to see you get your machine operational again and you return to a happy CW poster on the forum.



This post is not to invoke an argument about us charging for support. Support fees go by many different names and MANY companies (cellphone, automobile, computer, software, satellite tv) charge for support in one way or another either hidden or not. They have to in order to pay for their support centers and employees.

flemingswoodworks
08-12-2011, 02:51 PM
Well, I haven't gotten the email yet, but I promised more on this topic:
Which email are you reffering to? heres what I have to add to "This Toppic"

Here is everything that happened so it is CLEAR......this isn't and I hate carvewright rant I loved my machine until this all happened...It isn't a bash the tech I dealt with rant..Phil was a nice guy with a lot of patience.just wanted to make it clear.

I first had problems with lines in my carves anything and everything, so everyone on the forum was helping me troubleshoot what could have been causing the problem.deciding to change my Z-truck assembly because It was a little wobbly
with a new one that was much more snug I realized that I had to replace my FFC cable because I was getting constant errors and couldn't run a test carve.

So I called an ordered 2 new FFC cables. when I got my new cables I installed the one cable and immediately go a power flux error and my Ztruck started to move on it's own...so I called carvewright and said I think I might have the wrong cable because my machine is going crazy.the guy said "you must still have the old setup you have to order the new Z motor electronics board and the head termination board. so I did.

I installed the new boards and turned my machine on and my Z-motor took a nose dive into the wood and kept running so I called and talked to PHIL. he said my controller unit is bad so I sent my controller in to have him test..he confirmed the controller was no longer any good..so I bought a new controller.

I got the new controller and installed the new controller.turned the machine on and
NOTHING I had power but my Z-motor would not work ..that was working non-stop with the last controller..so I called and talked to PHIL for OVER and hour with him putting me on hold several times to "talk to an engineer"the final time he put me on hold to talk to an engineer he stated I have to call you back in an hour they left for lunch...

2 days later Phil called me back we spent over an hour on the phone going over everything we went over 2 days before.then after all that he had me check the carve time on the new controller and it was at ZERO..he said it should have a 20 minute test carve on it to make sure everything is good but sense it was made over seas
they have no way of controlling that.If it was a refurbished on they would have been tested at LHR

So after a over 2 hours phone time with the carvewright Tech..so YES I spoke to a Tech on the phone.didn't care if I had to pay 25 bucks I don't think that's unreasonable...Phil said My supervisor is on vacation for 2 weeks so I can't authorize a return on the controller you'll have to send it back at your cost and we will retest it , and if we determine that it is defective we will send you another and reimburse you your shipping cost..not a problem sounds good to me.

I called Phil to see how it tested because I tracked my controller and knew it was at LHR for a couple of days and hadn't hear anything.Phil said he was going to test it personally and he would call me back in a couple of hours.The next afternoon Phil called and said my controller tested fineand my cables as well.He suggested I send my machine in for service..I said I have to talk to my wife because money is tight and I just put over $400 into it between parts and shipping.

so I called Phil back and he had left for the day and the guy I talked to said sense it's Friday your better off calling back Monday and having Phil ship it back.
So Monday I called Phil and had him send it back...

I got the controller back and put it back in hoping for the best and it's the same..I have power and can run through all the sensor test but can't do anything else.
so I checked the power time and the carve time and it had 3 minutes of power more than when I sent it and still had zero carving time. so I emailed Phil and asked him about it and he said they turned it on and the sensors check out fine thats why it only had 3 minutes on it and they didn't do a test carve because that wasn't my issue..

lynnfrwd
08-12-2011, 05:17 PM
I was referring to the email between you and Al Who.

We have spent MUCH time today and had a 30+ minute "powpow" this afternoon with the CEO trying to figure out what the problem could be. It sounds as if you need a new Z & Y motor or there is a short somewhere. Philip has done about as much as he can over the phone with trying to diagnose the issue and I know you don't want to send the machine in for us to repair.

Al...we are under directive to ask anyone that has an A machine and is ordering an FFC cable to ask if they have the 18 pin still.

flemingswoodworks
08-12-2011, 05:58 PM
I was never asked If I still had the 18 pin set up until after I called to say my machine was acting strange with power flux errors and axis stalls..I said I think you sent me the wrong cable and thats when the guy said... "you must still have the old setup you have to order the new Z motor electronics board and the head termination board."..
I can't afford to send my machine in for repairs .after what I just put into it, my Z and Y motors stoped working after I put the new controller in..meaning my machine did Less after I put the new part in

PCW
08-12-2011, 06:02 PM
We have spent MUCH time today and had a 30+ minute "powpow" this afternoon with the CEO trying to figure out what the problem could be. It sounds as if you need a new Z & Y motor or there is a short somewhere.

Lynn,

Is shipping these parts to LHR for testing a option.

lynnfrwd
08-12-2011, 06:09 PM
Lynn,

Is shipping these parts to LHR for testing a option.

Absolutely, it's an option, just like we tested the controller!

Digitalwoodshop
08-12-2011, 07:32 PM
I would send the New Computer, Power Supply, FFC Cable, Z Motor with new Circuit Board for the FFC, the other FFC Board and the Y Motor... And since we are seeing the servo problems, I would send the X Motor too...

AL

b.sumner47
08-12-2011, 08:21 PM
They are a pretty good group up there, I would send it all to them . They will stand behind it, for all anyone knows this could be a freak problem that we all might benifit from. Capt Barry

Dan-Woodman
08-13-2011, 09:18 AM
When I ordered a new FFC cable nobody ever asked me if I had the new circuit boards to go with it . This was just 2 months ago, so I had to have a second order and more shipping.

Lynnfrwd
This brings up another situation. I ordered these two new circuit boards 2 months ago . The order was for a( reconditioned )head termination board, and and new Z board.
I paid for these parts.
The next day, they called . Reconditioned part not available,so they declined order and made a new one , chargeing me again.
Bottom line is I have never been reimbersed for the first order.
I have e-mailed Mary, e-mailed (sales) e-mailed (contact us) from home page. The only return I have heard is an automated e-mail saying we will get back to you . Never heard anymore.

I know this is not the right place to post this, but I need to get someones attention.
I still don't speak above a whisper from my cancer surgery, so e-mail is best, or call in the AM.
later Daniel

flemingswoodworks
08-14-2011, 07:16 AM
feel better soon Daniel

lynnfrwd
08-15-2011, 10:48 AM
When I ordered a new FFC cable nobody ever asked me if I had the new circuit boards to go with it . This was just 2 months ago, so I had to have a second order and more shipping.
This was implemented on Friday.



Lynnfrwd
This brings up another situation. I ordered these two new circuit boards 2 months ago . The order was for a( reconditioned )head termination board, and and new Z board.
I paid for these parts.
The next day, they called . Reconditioned part not available,so they declined order and made a new one , chargeing me again.
Bottom line is I have never been reimbersed for the first order.
I have e-mailed Mary, e-mailed (sales) e-mailed (contact us) from home page. The only return I have heard is an automated e-mail saying we will get back to you . Never heard anymore.

This is what is supposed to happen:
When you place an order, that money is placed "on hold" by the credit card company. Once the item is shipped, we "capture" the money. If that money is not "captured" after so many days, it is dropped as a charge to your credit card.

Since we never shipped your first order, the money should not have been "captured". I'm checking with accounting to verify this is what happened in your case.


I know this is not the right place to post this, but I need to get someones attention.
You can also PM me or send me an email.



I still don't speak above a whisper from my cancer surgery, so e-mail is best, or call in the AM. 816-732-6712
later Daniel

Hope you get better quickly!

flemingswoodworks
08-15-2011, 04:16 PM
<Hence Shorting out the $300.00 Computer.... AND possibly the SERVO Power part of the Power Supply.> - cut and pasted from Al's comments about the FFC cable.

Noticed that in response to Daniel's comment that no one asked him about his machine models, it was posted that the policy was just implemented last Friday.

This seems to confirm that there might have been some accuracy in A'ls thinking that being sent, and attempting to install the wrong FFC cable would have created additional problems with a machine.

Our concern (this is Will's wife Candyce speaking) is that we started out the ONE problem that was being diagnosed - lines in carve = after the purchasing, sending back and forth of parts (FFC cable, the controller) we now have a machine that does not work at all. We started being able to carve, and our goal was to improve performance.

I have been spending a lot of time researching Carvewright and it's customer service repuation. I am hoping we end up we an honorable resolution to this problem. Does Carvewright take any responsibility for the possibility that the wrong FFC cable being installed could cause new shorts and blow out the power supply?

lynnfrwd
08-17-2011, 11:58 AM
Yesterday, I reread all of the posts by flemingswoodworks, which first started with the "Lines....Help!" thread back in April. I wrote and re-wrote a response to this thread and today am re-writing it again.

This thread is about two things: 1.the Flemings getting their machine up and running again for another 300+ hours and 2. the value of the $25 elevated support fee or CarversClub membership being worth the price.

First off, I do want to see you get your machine back into operating condition and will work with you towards that goal.

I admire Mr. Fleming for his efforts to be frugal and work on the machine himself, however there have been many attempts by me in posts and emails and by other forum members to encourage him to use the technical expertise of my staff and not to continue throwing parts at the machine in hopes of finding a fix. Even by his own admission, he choose to "cross his fingers" and "take a chance". He later even admitted "this was 100% my fault".

Trying to figure out what may have caused what and what happened when and was this item bad before the 14 pin FFC cable was installed has my head swimming. The z & y motors were suspected as possibly having issues on 5/30 when an email was sent to sales asking for pricing. It appears the machine was "dead" (post 6/6 "I think I messed up my machine") when the original FFC cable was "wiggled". Was the controller already bad at this point? Don't know.

One thing I do not want to have happen is this thread turn into a LHR Customer Service bashing, as we have worked with you guys for hours trying to resolve these issues without elevated support, CarversClub or warranty. Customer Support was not involved in the diagnosis of a new FFC cable. They were used simply to place an order. I acknowledge that this new procedure of asking customers with A model machines, if they have the old-style 18 pin cable is past due. To your question, "Does Carvewright take any responsibility for the possibility that the wrong FFC cable being installed could cause new shorts and blow out the power supply?" If CarveWright was responsible for a misdiagnosis, I would say "yes". I believe there are responsibilities to be taken on the customer side though, as well. And to be honest with you, I think Mr. Fleming would acknowledge that too.

The idea to save $25 and diagnose an issue yourself is a very risky one. What could have cost $25 plus one part and a couple of weeks, has now exploded into a very expensive & very lengthy learning experience.

.

flemingswoodworks
08-21-2011, 03:03 PM
Connie ~

<He later even admitted "this was 100% my fault".> This was very much taken out of context.
Will wrote this directly after reading a response from someone, and thinking he had called and ordered the WRONG cable. Next event was when he called to order what he thought would be the correct cable, he was told there was only ONE CABLE (therefore he could not have ordered the incorrect one). So yes, when he thought he ordered the wrong cable, he had taken ownership. But later events, as have been discussed, obviously cancelled that line of thinking.

As far as the $25 – after the email thread that it is $25 a situation, not $25 a call, Will did call, willing to pay for the call and spoke to Phil, who immediately recognized a problem with the controller, said it should be tested, and suggested it be sent in. Which we did. It was determined to be bad and we bought a new one.

When that one got here, the next set of problems that, in the opinion of an experienced and educated Carveright owner said could very well have been tied to the Cable being sent without being asked first to upgrade the controller, surfaced.

When Will spoke to Phil, he asked that Will check to see how many hours were on the “new controller”. There were none. Phil explained to Will that there should have been a 20 minute test carve on it, and said it somehow slipped by that it wasn’t. We then learned this part was made and tested overseas. So at our own expense, we sent the controller back, and it came back to us (after we had to follow up to get the testing done) – the “engineer” said it was good, but it still didn’t have the 20 minute carve on it. Phil then told Will (next call) that it wasn’t necessary because of what they were checking for. That is when we got to the point we asked for the cost of parts and repairs and were told – next step is $170 round trip shipping, two hours minimum for test $65 each – so $300 right out of the gate before parts (which also aren’t cheap)and any possible additional time for repair. Being that we just put out $215.00 plus the shipping and handling for the controller, paid for the cable(s) bought two to think ahead/shipping, and felt that part of the current problem could be very well tied to the upgrade question – yup that idea stung because we were not confident in that was happening with both the machine, and our experience at the time with Carvewright. This is compounded by the sales lost while the machine has been down.

I thought the Forums were an excellent resource for people to benefit from the knowledge and experience of other Carvewright owners. Your statement <The idea to save $25 and diagnose an issue yourself is a very risky one. What could have cost $25 plus one part and a couple of weeks, has now exploded into a very expensive & very lengthy learning experience> seems to indicate you might know what the one part was that was needed from the beginning to fix the original “Lines in the Carving” problem. Then this part should have been suggested when Will called and was told about the controller. He did state when ordering the FFC cable and again for the controller, “the all started with lines in my carve”.

You guys are the only game in town for Carvewright parts – so anything anyone buys benefits you anyway. If you don’t think CW owners should “self diagnose” you should eliminate that option from the forums, and just let people share patterns and business experiences.

In response to the email sent the other day “Have you decided what you want to do with your machine”, the answer remains, what are the options?

Like yourself, we look forward to resolution and moving forward on this topic.

RogerB
08-21-2011, 03:20 PM
I made a mistake pluging in a cable and bent a pin.Please take the time and use a flashlight and mirror so you can see better. Hope this helps.

lynnfrwd
08-22-2011, 12:00 PM
First off, anyone that knows me, knows that if I knew what the issue was, I would have told you. Even the techs have been stumped and told you they have done all they can do over the phone and the best option is to send the machine in for us to look at it.

I don't think any of us would discount the value of this forum as a resource. I often have referred to it as "where the real experts live", but there is just so much testing and troubleshooting that you can do using your imagination. The machine was reportedly "dead" after Will "wiggled" the old 18-pin cable while it was still plugged in and it was "still dead" after he put the new 14-pin cable in, so it's unlikely the 14-pin made it any deader. Without seeing the machine, we have NO IDEA where it stands.

My soundest advice would be to send it in for the CarveTight Upgrade. That would include the labor costs, multi-inspection and re-calibration. You have one of the first CompuCarves ever sold, you are the second owner and have over 300 hours on it. I'd say you are due for an upgrade.

I would also suggest joining the CarversClub...especially, since it is on sale this month.

With money being the issue, the next option would be to send in your y & z motors for us to test (for free, again).

Selling it is still an option, I guess, but not one I ever want my customers to do. If money is the issue, then the idea that purchasing a more expensive machine will solve your problems leaves me baffled.

TerryT
08-22-2011, 03:07 PM
Since this thread isn't closed I guess I can still take a shot. Just realize that if some of my sentences don't make sense.... it's the drugs! LOL
I have read Wills post from the start and even offered a little advice. What I think had happened is that his original problem may have acutally been more than one thus confounding a proper diagnosis. I'm afraid that a miss step during a repair may have actuall done more harm than good and now Will is at the point where only LHR techs and the proper testing equipment can find what is most likely several problems.

I think there are only two possible courses of action. Either the Flemmings need to sell this machine as is (it is clearly beyond a home repair) or send it to LHR for repair. There aren't any other options left are there?

lynnfrwd
08-22-2011, 09:50 PM
Without seeing the machine, it is impossible to know what is wrong with the machine or what it might need. I do not have the authority to say what LHR will or will not do, but we will be happy to discuss this further with the Flemings offline.