cut motor not working

[onetexasoldman]

cut motor not working. I have put new brushing in also new ribbon cut motor still is not working. Have I mixed up the wires putting the motor back in??? Have changed them and still nothing.
I have also checked the sensor monitor for the cut motor and it seems to be ok

[Digitalwoodshop]

OK.... Here is the wiring... A Black and White wire come from under the machine for the X Termination Board.

The Black one from the X Termination Board goes to the Black one on the Motor.

The White one from the X Termination board goes to the White wire on the Motor BUT not before going through the right side cover switch.
So you can connect to the Black or white wire.... It just goes in and out of the switch so no polarity... I like going White from the X Term Board to Black of the switch through the switch to the White to White on the Cut Motor....

SO the Right Side Switch must be suspect here.... If you ever remove the top cover and carry the big black cover around and don't support the clear plastic cover then it can rest on BOTH Switches sometimes breaking off the clear cover tab that activates the switch.... A Continuity check of the switch with the power off would help...

THEN there is the C1 Capacitor that likes to SNAP OFF like the L2 in the Power Supply from the QC Vibration. It is part of the X Termination Board under the machine. The Q1 Transistor is the on off switch for the Cut Motor controlled by the Computer.

The part number for a replacement Capacitor is MLR104K400 or a Cap-Mylar .1 MF 400 Volt.

Of my 4 machines, 3 C1's broke off... I call it because of the Lolly Pop Effect... The QC Vibration causes the problem.... All my 3 machines had QC's and I ran up Hundreds of hours before the Rock came out and eliminated this problem.

OR you have a BAD CUT MOTOR..... It has happened.... Open Windings....

Also posted a picture of a Burnt X Termination Board that a member sent me.

AL

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[onetexasoldman]

ok checked all that right switch is good. checked all wires again and don't have a burnt board. But going to order new x terminal board on monday. Hope that's it. My customer is getting alittle impatient with me. OH WELL
thanks for the help have a great weekend

[Digitalwoodshop]

What I would do is un plug the 2 wires going to the Cut Motor and using a 115 Volts AC Light Bulb and a old lamp.... Cut the plug off of the old lamp and attach the 2 wires to where the Cut Motor would plug in. Load a project and get to installing a bit where when after the bit is installed the machine spins up the bit for a few seconds... If the lamp lights then the X Termination Board and cover Switch is GOOD and the Cut Motor is BAD..... IF your Cut Motor turns out to be BAD I would be interested in purchasing it for the outer case as is for the Core Charge plus Shipping....

OR you could order both the Cut Motor and the X Termination and return the un needed part with the core?


Good Luck,

AL

[onetexasoldman]

Thanks AL
ok replaced the x Board and still nothing. Now I get a E37-0303 cut motor sensor bad. When I do a test of the cut motor sensor it shows the numbers increasing when I turn the bit. Guess I will order a cut motor and sensor I am running out of parts to replace. Will see what happens when I get the motor. I guess I will replace the sensor first to see if it really is the motor?????
I am running out of time leaving on vacation next week
Larry

[Digitalwoodshop]

Sounds like the computer is telling the cut motor to run and since it is not seeing pulses..... So yes, the motor is next.. But you proved the sensor is working. I am interested in your old cut motor for the core and shipping.

AL

[onetexasoldman]

I will let you know about the motor when I find out if that is really what it is. They said the motor is in the mail today.

[onetexasoldman]

ok now I installed a new motor and sensor and still nothing!!! Goes thru all the checks and then when it should start carving check cut motor comes on. I have checked all my wires unpluged them and pluged them back in
new x board new ribbon wire new cut motor new sensor.

[Old Salt]

Try just pushing enter to start.
get that error many times.

[onetexasoldman]

tried that many times and just starts cutting without the motor going. I am ready to thro this machine in the lake
Have also checked the cover switchs again with my meter

[onetexasoldman]

tried the lamp thing the light doesn't come on with the spinup when checking but does come on when it starts carving. This is the new motor!!!!!

[onetexasoldman]

what would happen if I bypassed the switch all together.

[unitedcases]

I bypassed both switches on the lid. Is it the safe thing to do. No. But I have over 1000 hours on the machine and its still running strong. Just saying........

[onetexasoldman]

I bypassed the switch running the wires from the x board direct to the cut motor and it works. Even tho I checked the switch with the meter. Guess I will try my old motor now and see if it works. I should have bypassed the switch to start with last month !!!
Well I have learned alot on this problem
start my project tomorrow and see what happens.
Thanks for all the help

[eelamb]

Larry, are you sure the switches are closed when the cover is closed? The switch may need adjustment so the cover makes contact with the switch and closes contacts.

[onetexasoldman]

I'll check that again in the morning. It seems I have double checked everything but it won't hurt. Thanks for reminding me

[Digitalwoodshop]

The Right Side Switch is a Safety device to prevent the Cut Motor from starting while you hold the bit. IF your C1 Cap on the X Termination Board snaps off one end, then the Cut Motor can come on by itself with the cover closed. With the Cap just touching and I thumped my fist on top of the machine, the Cut Motor would come on and off with the thumping... So you ask what would happen if you bypassed the switch.....

With the switch bypassed and the power on to the Machine On.... And your fingers changing a bit and you bump the side of the machine and the Cut Motor Starts up... You get to join the 8 or 9 digit Club.... Sony Picture Tube Plant had a few old mechanics that were Members of the 8 and 9 digit club.... Having had the machine Chew off the Finger or Digits....

Even had a new thin girl slip between a Robot Guard and a wall to fix a Picture Tube part that was slightly out of place so the Robot could pick it up... She fixed the part and made the Sensor and with all the power still on...... the Robot moved to pick up the tube crushing her.... She will never walk again..... She built 32 inch TV's for 10 years and when they moved that to Mexico stated working in the Picture tube Plant in the same buildng...

Another guy bypassed a door sensor on a Picture Tube Elevator.... He reached into the elevator to adjust a tube out of place and with the door switch bypassed didn't know his hand was inside and went UP Quickly... Peeling the.... Well it was Bloody....

so Go ahead and by pass the switch, many have and Brag about it... As Clint would say.... "Do You Feel LUCKY????" Out of my 4 machines.... 3 broken C1's.... Auto Run Cut Motors..... Run Anytime..... If you still have a QC.... The Vibration will take out the C1....

Try taping 2 fingers to your hand and try to change a bit without them.... Not so Easy...

So only because you ASKED....

AL

[onetexasoldman]

I get the idea!!! I don't really like bypassing safety switches never had and never will. Just wanted to see if the motor would go on and didn't want to fry a board with my test. So now I know it's the switch and maybe the door is not closing all the way.
I am going to check my old motor and see if it works. If not will send you an email to see if you want it.
Thanks for all your help.
Larry

[Jeff_Birt]

Sometimes you can ohm out a switch and it will test good, when you try to run a bunch of current through it though it will fail. I used to see something similar with welding cables (back in the day). You could ohm out a mig gun and it would test fine, but it would not weld worth a hoot. When you pulled it apart there would only be a few tiny wires, out of all those thousands of strands, that were still intact. The few wires were fine for the few microamps the meter put out when testing but acted like a big resistance when trying to weld.

Switches can do something similar, when no current is running though them they make good enough contact to test OK, but once a lot of current runs thorugh them the resistance is so high that things don't work right. The only way to test this accuratly is to measure the voltage drop across the switch terminals when the device is in operation or use the millohm meter. It is impossible to measure across the switch with the device operating in many cases and nobody has a mill-ohm meter laying around. Pratically, if you can jumper the swich and things work fine you can bet that the switch is bad.

[Digitalwoodshop]

What HE said... Yes, they can test fine but the Carbon buildup on the contact won't pass current....

Sorry about the Gruesome lecture..... I forget some guys dodge bullets for a living.... Not me.... At least not anymore....

What happens with the cover switch is since there is NO mechanical Stop on the Clear Lid... If you remove the top cover and don't support the clear cover as you move it around or where you lay it down... the Clear cover Switch Activation plastic Bumps can snap off.... OR they rest all the weight of the clear cover on the switch and it pushes in on the Switch. It sometimes bends the metal contact OR cracks the holes where the screws from the switch mount to the black top plastic cover. A careful inspection of the holes may find them cracked and the switch moves back rather than activate.

Have also seen posted that the Crimp on Connectors have loosened up..... Re Crimping helps....

Don't dismiss a cold Solder Joint on the Q1 Transistor on the X Termination Board.... That is the on off switch for the motor..... Giving you mixed results..... Confusing results.... Works now but not later....

Good Luck....

It very well may have been the switch the whole time... LHR may let you return the Motor.

AL

[onetexasoldman]

Thanks Jeff and no I don't have a millohm meter and if I did wouldn't know how to use it anyway. Thanks
Larry

[unitedcases]

No worries Al. I do get your point though.

[onetexasoldman]

I am now ordering a new switch.