Power Fluctuation message

[kenmedernach]

Somebody Heeeelllp,
I have talked to all of the techs at CW and their resolution is "send the machine in for service" well I'm not ready to spend that kind of $$$.
I can carve raster projects with no problem, but I do a lot of vector carving and that's where the machine balks and I get the "power fluctuation" message.
Following the instructions fro the Techs in Texas, I do the following;
1. Turn the machine over, remove the 12 screws and the bottom cover,then checked the connections on the power supply for dust, loose wires, etc. AOK.
2. Checked the cut motor brushes, looked good, cleaned the brush contacts.
3. Made certain the I am running the current version of the software, formatted the card.
4. Reloaded a "clean" vector project and a simple raster with a vector combined plus my initials in Centerline text. (a) Raster / vector combo carved O.K. (b) Centerline text carved O.K. (c) Vector carving failed ( 60 deg. bit, very shallow cuts 0.030 to 0.090)
Back on the phone to the guys in Texas, they go to engineering and we run through the "Z" truck readings, tension (power on and off).
They asked about the chuck and whether the bit was theirs of after market, then they said "Send the machine in for service" , THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

If I can't get some help from you guys, This machine (which I have had for over 3 years)"is for sale and I'll bite the bullet for a EZ-CNC.

Ken Medernach
Atlanta
:(

:(

[AskBud]

Somebody Heeeelllp,
I have talked to all of the techs at CW and their resolution is "send the machine in for service" well I'm not ready to spend that kind of $$$.
I can carve raster projects with no problem, but I do a lot of vector carving and that's where the machine balks and I get the "power fluctuation" message.
Following the instructions fro the Techs in Texas, I do the following;
1. Turn the machine over, remove the 12 screws and the bottom cover,then checked the connections on the power supply for dust, loose wires, etc. AOK.
2. Checked the cut motor brushes, looked good, cleaned the brush contacts.
3. Made certain the I am running the current version of the software, formatted the card.
4. Reloaded a "clean" vector project and a simple raster with a vector combined plus my initials in Centerline text. (a) Raster / vector combo carved O.K. (b) Centerline text carved O.K. (c) Vector carving failed ( 60 deg. bit, very shallow cuts 0.030 to 0.090)
Back on the phone to the guys in Texas, they go to engineering and we run through the "Z" truck readings, tension (power on and off).
They asked about the chuck and whether the bit was theirs of after market, then they said "Send the machine in for service" , THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

If I can't get some help from you guys, This machine (which I have had for over 3 years)"is for sale and I'll bite the bullet for a EZ-CNC.

Ken Medernach
Atlanta
:(

:(
How about attaching one of the MPCs that fail. We may get a clue as to what the problem may be. Also, attach a photo of where in the carve the failure happens.
AskBud

[kenmedernach]

QUOTE=AskBud;153542]How about attaching one of the MPCs that fail. We may get a clue as to what the problem may be. Also, attach a photo of where in the carve the failure happens.
AskBud[/QUOTE]
The carve failure happens before the bit touches the board
44253

[Digitalwoodshop]

This post is to address the "Power Fluctuation" seen on the LCD.

If you have a Check Cut Motor 30 seconds into a new project then that is semi normal... We all or most of us get it...

So here we go...


This is a classic Power Supply problem.... The L2 coil is broken on the power supply board..... Worst Case is you buy a new power supply and send the old one back for a core charge... Best Case.... You have the first generation Power Supply as seen in my picture and you could have the Coil soldered at a TV Repair place....

What has happened is the L2 Coil that is a Noise Filter in the output of the power supply is a big copper coil on a ferrite core. It vibrates because of a worn QC and like bending copper wire in your hand over and over.... The same copper wires turn that lighter color and snap.... In your case, it happens where the copper wire is bent over on the other side of the board then soldered. You can see in my pictures, when I push down on the coil with the pen, the copper comes out of one side about a 1/8 of an inch like a Carrot out of the ground.... Snapped below the surface of the board.... In China, a girl squirts glue on the coil to prevent this vibration but I have a Humorous Theory that when that girl takes a day off of work the replacement doesn't like getting her hands dirty changing the glue tube so she uses less glue... Hence.... A few bad power supplies on the day the Girl takes off work.... Having worked in the Sony Picture Tube Plant and had a similar experiance.... A Girl had a job to squirt some special RTV between 2 pins of the picture tube then place a plastic base cap on the tube. The RTV held the cap in place.... AND acted as a insulator to the 17 Thousand Volts arcing between 2 pins 1/4 inch appart... Well the Girl covering the station when the regular girl called in sick... Well, she was Frugal with the RTV.... Hence the Picture Tubes would ARC and fail.... We had to pull over 3 thousand picture tubes from the warehouse and pull the cap and clean the old RTV and re apply new RTV in the correct amount..... This took about a week of Overtime costing Sony Thousands bring in people on there day off.....

Let us know about the Power Supply... The second generation power supply has 3 bars.... The first version has 2 and a cover on the L2.

Someone had a problem with the new power supply and it was not the L2... so if you have the new one I would just order a new one... I am interested in buying the old new one for the core charge and shipping, IF you have the new version. I want to dissect it...

Must have been a new tech and had never had to deal with the hundreds of bad L2 Coils...


AL

[AskBud]

QUOTE=AskBud;153542]How about attaching one of the MPCs that fail. We may get a clue as to what the problem may be. Also, attach a photo of where in the carve the failure happens.
AskBud
The carve failure happens before the bit touches the board
44253[/QUOTE]
What is the actual wording of the failure?
It's normal to get a "Check Motor" message as the bit spins up, when using Centerline, especially when using the QC chuck. I've not gotten the message with the CT chuck. In my opinion it seems to be the weight and potential imbalance of the QC.
AskBud

[Capt Bruce]

There you go Ken. As I'd mentioned on the phone, you've brought the problem to the most knowledgeable group of CarveWright/CompuCarve user experts in the nation. I'll be curious to know where this leads and if the worse case is having to purchase a new Power Supply board and selling the core to Al Who of Digitalwoodshop then you are still money ahead of the first shipping charge. Explore and confirm or deny the first suggestions and let us know.
Hope their suggestions will get you back up and carving soon cause we want to keep you in the Forum among friends.

[kenmedernach]

OK thanks guys, tomorrow I'll chech ouththe coil on the power supply and if I find a broken or loose wire, I'll solder it back, but ....if it's a power supply problem why do "rasters" and centerline text run OK?

[Digitalwoodshop]

It's a Vibration thing.... IF you pounded your fist on the top right corner post while the head was going to the Bit Plate or measuring a board... Something safe as to not snap a bit.... You would most likely get a power fluctuation....

Before they added the Power Fluctuation Error code.... If I have it correct that it is a recent thing.... Say a year ago... Before that you would would end up with a dead unit.... Here is a picture of my first 2 units where the Warranty Unit died.... I had laid it on it's back to remove the bottom.... Had just laid it on it's back and leaned over the machine to unplug it and noticed the LCD was now ON.... From Dead to now ON..... So I stood it back up to test.... Then saw it was DEAD again..... Thumped on the top corner post with my fist and the LCD came to life only to die again.... The unit to the right had just come from a Sears Store... The Frustrated Manager sold it to me for $500.00 as He was SO Frustrated with the machine.... A Return.... Turned out to be a bad Z Encoder.... So I took the power supply from the Z machine and I was back up and running. LHR sent me a new Power Supply for the Warranty Machine.

That is how I learned.....

Most of my Repair Advice comes from me fixing the same problem.... Then I hear there is a new Power Supply... I never got the "MEMO"..... LOL.... Want one to play with...

That was 2007 and I removed my bad Z Motor and sent it to LHR for repair of the Encoder. I think it was just the pins on the plug of the encoder snapping the connection between the solder pad and the trace leading away from the pin... A common problem with solder pads and leads in my Sony days...

BARD was a Forum User here and a LHR Tech that helped me learn the machine and was willing to SHARE information when I called. We Worked well together..... He left LHR back in 2008 but did check in about 2 months ago on the Forum..... He was doing well.... Then gone again...

AL

[kenmedernach]

:roll:I attempted another test project, this time a combo raster/vector carving; it failed on the raster---So to work. Flip the machine, as I was turning the machine into the "turtle position" to remove the bottom cover,I colud definately detect the unpleseant aroma of an overheated electrical component but by the time I had the 12 screws removed the odor had dissipated. OK, the power supply is lying on my workbench, and there is a "big gob" of some sort of silicone maybe RTV at the point where the suspect wire passes through the circuit board, turned the board over and with magnifying glass in hand I see what maybe a "cold" solder joint, I will address this with my micro soldering iron. CW said the new board would be $155 minus $40 for the core or a rebuilt for $125 less core, if it comes to this I'll opt for the "new".

[Digitalwoodshop]

Is it like my picture or the new one with 3 bars...?

IN theory, if you heat the bottom lead it should fall out... Careful as too much heat will cause the copper pad to become un glued from the board.... It's always a challenge to get just enough heat and not too much....

AS a TEST... You can solder a JUMPER between the 2 pins of L2, Eliminating it.... It is just a coil of wire on a Ferrite Core... AC Noise on the DC power gets to the coil and the wrapped wire causes the expanding and collapsing AC noise on the wire to interfere with each other and equal and opposite cancel each other out.... That is how it works... Letting the AC Noise self destruct...

That is the theory why you see a Diode between the contacts of a DC Relay.... When you un plug the power and the coil magnetic field collapses upon itself and passes through itself expanding again and making the relay contacts "HOP" from this made up magnetic field... The DIODE Shunts the reverse pulse of power preventing the relay from hopping....

The MK 92 Radar I worked on before I retired had a row of relays and when the Techs would call for help... Radar not working properly, one of the first thing I would do is check all the Diodes... A Open and Bad Diode will cause problems....

I have told this story before but my first work day at Sony they put me to work with the Tech making 32 inch picture tubes. At 7 AM I walked in and the big De Magnetized was broken and all Picture Tubes on the line were stopped.... They called for the Engineers but they were not in yet.. The Tech had the Schematic out and there was a Glass Sealed Relay that was not tripping the demaganiting... Another alarm and he ran to fix that.... I looked at the Schematics and the Glass DC Relay and there was the diode... I checked and it was SHORTED.... Preventing the relay from working..... The Tech came back and I told him.... He did not believe me.... I said... Cut the diode for 1 test.... It will work but you need to replace the diode... IT WORKED..... He ran to the parts cage for a diode.... Back up and running by 7:30 all the covers on.... 8 AM in come running all the Engineers with a Gaggle of Techs and Test Equipment.... The Tech told them I found the problem.... Stole there FIRE..... They were looking to save the day.... They were getting paid the big bucks... I snickered.... It was the first of many on my Fixes....

The older I get.... the BETTER I WAS..... LOL....
AL

[kenmedernach]

Mine is just like yours...(I wanted to say "but bigger" ) but who knows? My power supply is just like the one you pictured.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Thanks.... Then I won't need it... Have a broken one like that.... I still want to see a new one....

I would try to get that one repaired....

Thanks... Good Luck,

AL

[kenmedernach]

8)My thanks to everybody who came forth and helped me through "MY SITUATION" after removing the power supply and examining it with a magnifing glass I found a "cold solder joint" on the suspect lead from the RF choke to the PC board, a quick touch with my mini soldering iron and just the slightest bit of RC solder I got a "shiny" joint. Put it all back together and the sound that you hear in the background is the machine making sawdust and carving a vector figure, (what you cna't hear it??) well take my word it's running .

Al Who and Ask Bud saved me a lot of grief and at least $125.00.:D

Again, thanks to all,

[Digitalwoodshop]

Good Job.... Was it the L2?

AL