Still have darn lines

[flemingswoodworks]

4414244141

ok everyone I replaced the QC ..new bit..wheel berrings are as they should and still have lines they seem to be getting worse..any other Ideas?
it was hard to get good pictures of the lines

[bergerud]

Check how easily the truck moves up and down. If the guide bearings are too tight they will feel lumpy. I had the same problem and backed off the tension on these bearings. If is not these bearings then it could be backlash in the z drive. Bearings, gears worn or poor clearance. How many hours on the machine?

[flemingswoodworks]

353 hours on the machine and 127 on the new ztruck assemb. i've taken the zassem of and readjusted several times and the same results everytime..new qc..new bits...it moves up and down very smooth

[Digitalwoodshop]

Clean the Z Encoder area.

Check Screws on the INSIDE of the Z Gear Box that hold the Z Motor Meshed to the big plastic gear.... MESH the gear and motor tighter.... Could be they are TOO FAR apart and you are getting what I called in the Analog Computer Days as Backlash.... Holes are slotted to mesh tighter....

AL

[flemingswoodworks]

I took the gear box apart it was clean and seamed snug enough..did a test square and it's still has lines and seams a little worse.

[Digitalwoodshop]

The screws on the back of the Z Truck could be loose holding the belt....

IF you grab the whole Z Truck and tug in every direction do you feel anything loose? Y Bearing...

Screws on the bottom of the machine holding the 4 smooth corner posts, are they tight?

Grab the 1/8 inch bit when installed by the tip and tug carefully in 4 directions.... DO you feel any give.... Don't get cut... Especially side to side....

AL

[b.sumner47]

Just a thought,Have you tried to up your carving setting ? I mean Normal to Best and see what happens. Capt Barry After thought. Bit Setting-Otimal.

[flemingswoodworks]

yes digital went through the check list the other day though because the qc had a slight wable that that was the problem..replace it but only got worse ...everything is tight all through out the machine..wondering if the problem is internal on the z-assembly

[DocWheeler]

Al's post (#4) suggested that you check/clean the encoder.
Since he mainly showed photos of the gear end of the motor perhaps you didn't catch his good suggestion.

[flemingswoodworks]

the encoderis that what he shows in image 3 after the black cap is removed....under my cap was spotless I blew it out with the air compressor anyway..

[Digitalwoodshop]

I am running out of things to suggest.....

A really WILD AL GUESS..... Could be a bad Z Motor and a bad winding inside the motor itself.... I have not opened one yet myself but do know from my Navy Servo Training that IF you Open the Servo Motor and remove the Commutator from the Ceramic Magnet Case that the Servo Motor will loose some of it's ability to hold.... I made a big long post about this with links to Servo Pages on the Web backing up my info... After re assembly the Servo Motor needs to be placed in a jig and re magnatized.... IF NOT it will do strange things LIKE THIS.....

In my Navy days we had Magnetic Keepers to place on the Navy Servos as we removed the innerards.... To prevent failuire... I go WAY back... My first Computer in 1977 was a Analog Gun Fire Control Computer...

SO.... My next troubleshooting step would be to swap the Z with ANOTHER..... OR.... Remove the Y and Z Motors and move the Gearboxes between the motors and place the Z motor in the Y spot.... And try again.....

The Z Gear Box has a screw hole on top for the spring screw..... The Y does not.... It's screw is behind the right gray cover.... So a Z Gear Box will swap to a Y position but the Y not to the Z as it is missing the screw hole.

We will solve this..... IF you are willing to do the work....


AL

Yes, again we get to see AL and his Beer Belly in Japan in 1977 and his first computer.... Hand Cranks and Dials.... The price we pay to read his posts.... I developed a liking for Japanese, Taiwanese, and Hong Kong BEER.....

[www.carvenow.com]

the encoderis that what he shows in image 3 after the black cap is removed....under my cap was spotless I blew it out with the air compressor anyway..

Did you clean the tracking sensor in the back of the z-motor also? The z-motor has the same sensor as the one AL posted.

[flemingswoodworks]

TY Al I will try this out today see what happens.

[flemingswoodworks]

yes I cleaned the tracking sensor doesn't change the result...thanks Will

[Dan-Woodman]

That looks like very minute lines. I might ask , what is the repeatability of the Z- truck every time it moves up and down. Seems like I heard some time ago it was 1/128 '.
later Daniel

[Digitalwoodshop]

It will be something Binary.... 64.... 128... 256.... 512... 1024.... 2048...

As in bit weights 001 = 1, 010 = 2, 011 = 3, 100 = 4, 101 = 5, 011 = 6 and 111 = 7

AL

[cnsranch]

Thought I'd weigh in -

I've also had lines in my carvings before, happens rarely, but happens. Never really gave a lot of thought about what the problem was.

Everyone's focusing on the mechanical side - what about the wood?

What could be the results if the wood isn't perfectly flat on the top and bottom? Would there be an instance where the wood would move, minutely, up and down, as it passes through the machine?

Or, back to mechanical, what if the rollers are out of round? Or, a combination of all of this and light head pressure?

One thought I've had, using the QC, is that if there's a tad bit of sawdust in the QC - not enough to ruin it or the bit adapter - but just enough to "cushion" the adapter - that the bit would move - just a tad - up and down, causing lines.

Any thoughts?

[flemingswoodworks]

ok...I did as you sugested with the same result errrrrrrrr. do you think it could be a bad spindle bering thats bad that could be throwing it off slightly when it spins? good thing im already bald because this one is a hair looser

[flemingswoodworks]

thanks for your input Jerry ...it happens weather I use a carrior board or just plaine piece of wood...head pressure is good....I replaced the QC the otherday thinking it could be the problem..I bought 3 brand new bits and adaptors with the same results..
very fine lines

[cnsranch]

Do you get different results with different kinds of wood?

I carved the exact same project twice yesterday - set of pistol grips - one in ash, the next in Rosewood.

The rosewood set was almost perfect, the ash needed work.

Surely the difference was in wood density and grain.

That looks like pretty soft wood in your pics - the grain is so soft and "bouncy" (sorry), you'll get much less satisfactory results than you will with a harder wood.

[flemingswoodworks]

I've been using pine only for the last 2 years and it has just started happening..always carved very smooth with out any problems

[cnsranch]

OK, how 'bout this.....

I had a carve mess up on me couple of weeks ago - random areas that were not carved - a set of spots that were carved in succession - almost like it was part of the design. I didn't re-carve it, I just manually took off those areas by hand. I'm convinced that the project didn't load onto the card properly.

I've had that happen before when one pixel was left in a pattern - when it's carved it leaves a big dot in the carve.

Anyways, I know that's not your problem, but it is just possible that somehow your project has been corrupted somehow on the card (I assume that the project has been on the card for sometime as you said you've carved it a lot).

I'm bringing all this up, not for the "lines" you're concerned with, but all the other noise I see in the pics - looks like random high points that don't look like they're supposed to be there.

Have you re-formatted the card, and then up-loaded the project again?

[Digitalwoodshop]

Try to SPIN the Bearings on the top of the Y Truck.... Just the top ones..... and the Right Side Z Truck... They are the cam operated bearings.... Turned to TOP DEAD CENTER to tighten the Squeeze on the rails...... Using the Offset Holes....

If you can spin the bearing on the round rail then it is LOOSE.....

AL

[flemingswoodworks]

it happens on everything....im on to making test squares with same results..I reformated my card twice and updated my software as well the lines are very fine and perfectly straight and seams every pass markes the wood

[flemingswoodworks]

berrings don't spin..all snug

[bergerud]

I have an idea to test whether the problem is a backlash mechanical type problem or an electronic control type problem. Attach a string to the truck and while the machine carves, pull up with some tension. If the problem is some backlash, you should be able to smooth things out. If the machine really wants to carve those lines, I doubt you will make a difference. Other shot in the dark. May produce new information.

[flemingswoodworks]

i'm not sure as to how i can safely attach a string.but I will look into it...i'm not sure how support is because my machine is way out of warrenty but im going to write them an email with everything that I have done from everyones suggestions and see if the throw me some help too

[www.carvenow.com]

yes I cleaned the tracking sensor doesn't change the result...thanks Will

The tracking sensor on the the y motor and the z-motor are two different one. The clear round plastic piece need to be cleaned on both side and also inside of the senor unit where the round plastic piece pass through.

[flemingswoodworks]

yes I opend both up and they were spotless I blew them out with air and reasembled . Is their another way I should clean them ?
Im open to everyones prosess
thanks Will

[Digitalwoodshop]

Another WAG.... The Z Belt... HOLD the upper pulley and try to push and pull the Z Truck.... Looking for loose screws holding the belt to the Z truck... 2 screws.... The only way to tighten them is to remove the Z Motor and Remove the Z Truck...

This is a Early Picture and the Circuit Board and Cable are no longer used and gone in most every unit. See the 2 screws.... I had a loose set on a referb Truck.

AL

[flemingswoodworks]

ill check that out..I didn't think to check them

[flemingswoodworks]

everything was nice and tight

[flemingswoodworks]

just an update

after getting absolutely nowhere with tech support a week and a half back and forth emails giving them complete details and coming to the conclusion that they don't really read the emails in detail..it was could be bad bit or dust on the encoder with directions on how to clean..and I would have to say "as stated in previous emails I have 3 brand new bits..and I cleaned the encoders on both mothers 4 times and they were spotless each time" that was just one example of many like this than after a week and a half I get an email telling me my warranty was up and had to call and would get charged 25 bucks for each item that had to be trouble shooted...
so I just started to replace items on my own .just received a new z assembly didn't help...now I guess I will order a new z motor to see if that makes a difference

[flemingswoodworks]

sorry it's motors not mothers

[lynnfrwd]

I have sent you an email and will get with the tech guys on Tuesday about your issue as I do not find any notes regarding this problem. The $25 charge is for however many calls it takes to resolve your current issue, not per item. It might be less expensive than randomly replacing parts one at a time and hoping you find the cause.

[bergerud]

You may be able to interchange the y and z drives as a test instead of buying a new z drive. The wires come out differently and so have to be rerouted, otherwise, I think they are the same. Just a thought.

[flemingswoodworks]

TY Lynnfrwd I just sent a reply email back with a copy of some of the emails...thanks again

[lynnfrwd]

Thanks for updating me on your correspondence with HW support. As I can tell in your emails with them, they attempted to troubleshoot the issue via email on several occasions. Sometimes it becomes obvious that an issue is more than can be solved via email and elevated support with you on the phone and by your machine is necessary. That is why you finally got the email about the cost of support.

It does appear they could do a better job of adding further explanation about why elevated support is now necessary. I will get with them about this on Tuesday.

[Digitalwoodshop]

The Motors will swap but the gear box for the Y does not have the spring tension hole on top that the Z Likes... You could do a test.... Just tension it before tightening by hand....

I always suspect the Z Belt Screws on the back of the truck...

I always suspect the 4 screws under the machine that is in the end of the 4 smooth rods that the head slides up and down on. Letting the head raise on sawdust...

I always suspect the Y Bearings are loose and not gripping the rails tight.... The Cam Bearing...

Are you using BEST not Normal for cutting..... Best makes a clean up cut at slow speed in Y and Z.

The Motor is held to the Gear Box with 2 screws with slots and if the Motor shaft is TOO FAR away from the Big Plastic Gear then slop occure... Not meshed together enough....

The Z Gear Box Bearings might be worn... 5 x 11 x 5 mm.... Or the shaft thin.....

Let us know....

AL

[flemingswoodworks]

Hi Al
yes we already did this test with no luck everything seems to be snug and works the same..also I use best always as my setting.i'm sure its something simple but i cant fig it out
Will

[liquidguitars]

....I replaced the QC the otherday thinking it could be the problem..I bought 3 brand new bits and adaptors with the same results..
very fine lines


I think if you have the old QC and after looking at your photo this is going to be the best you can get and respectfully it's not that bad.
1. remove the old QC ASAP " I would limit how much you handle the old QC as it could be possessed by the underworld lords of destruction" and upgrade to the CT or Rock.
2. replace your 1/16" raster bit with a new on as you could have a small chip in the ball nose.

[flemingswoodworks]

I just replaced my z assemb the other day with a new one and all 3 bits are bran new.it seems better but still not perfect the way it was before.