Wood gear electromechanical clock project

[DickB]

I like the idea of using the CW to build a wood gear clock. I studied several sets of free and for-sale plans, and found a few drawbacks to these entirely mechanical pendulum clocks. One is the size - the pendulums make the clocks quite large. Another is the maintenance cycle - most must be wound every day. And, the clocks are not terribly accurate.

During my search, I came across an electromechanical clock by John Pickron. You can see it here http://www.naia-artists.org/gallery/john_pickron/ (the mantle clock - scroll down a bit) and another example here http://www.woodenworksclocks.com/PictonAndrea.htm These clocks use a 1-RPM timing motor that is almost hidden in the frame of the clock. These synchronous timing motors lock onto the 60-cycle AC power, which power companies actually regulate very closely. So, a clock using this type of motor would be very accurate, even if the wood gears are not perfect (unlike a purely mechanical clock).

I've started on my design. Thanks to JLT's Radial Vector Generator http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?17794-Radial-Vector-Generator... I have made some gear designs in Designer. Coincidentally, I got an email from Rockler notifying of a sale on 1/4" Baltic birch, with free shipping to boot, so I got my order in. I will cut some gears from this and put them together to test the concept. I already have a timing motor on order.

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[gregsolano]

I am looking forward to seeing this project progress. I also have wanted to build a wood gear clock for some time.

[mtylerfl]

I am looking forward to seeing this project progress. I also have wanted to build a wood gear clock for some time.

Yes - that's been on my "ta-do" list for four years. Maybe someday I'll actually design a couple! I have zero experience building wooden clocks - the learning curve to create original (working) designs has been the hold-up.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Sawmill Creek has a few Threads in the Laser Section with Wood Gears... This is GREAT.... CW... The Little Machine that "Could"...

AL

[lawrence]

I can't wait to see how this turns out-- I'm backed up in projects right now and my clock is about 5th in the list.

Lawrence

[JLT]

DickB, the electromechanical route is an excellent choice, particularly since it takes out the complexity of the down torquing power train of an all wooden clock. Like the others, am interested in seeing how it turns out!

By the way, I'm going to post some tips on the Radial Vector Generator thread on cutting out vector profiles, hopefully to reduce your scrap pile!

[dougmsbbs]

I really want to see this, too! I have a half-designed clock plan here, and I'd love to see how this turns out before I go any farther.

[DickB]

I cut a set of gears out of cheap plywood to test my design and concept. I assembled these on a scrap piece and added some hands. Watch the video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgmD6Zzw0p8

[lawrence]

VERY cool-- and thanks for taking the time to post a video

Lawrence

[liquidguitars]

Very cool makes me want to try a few...

[Frederick_P]

This place has some cool wooden clock designs and sell plans with DXF files so the conversion to the CW is a snap: http://www.woodentimes.com/

[DickB]

I cut some test hours gears and reassembled the parts using concentric brass tubing. Everything is working as expected. I need to work on a clutch mechanism between the seconds and minutes gears. This will allow the time to be set by simply moving the minutes hand.

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For the actual clock, I'm going to make the pinion gears out of 1/2" hardwood. These will look better and allow for a better fit of the gears. I'm also going to make the arms and gear ring of the larger gears a bit thinner for a more delicate look. For my first clock I will cut the larger gears out of 1/4" Baltic birch, but in the future I may try a hardwood like cherry. I will design some sculpted arms that will be carved instead of cut for a more complex and interesting gear. I have some ideas for a ring with numbers but haven't started that design. I haven't thought much about hands designs. I think I'm going to stick with a single piece frame like the test mule.

My timing motor hasn't arrived yet - I will have to follow up on Monday.

[mtylerfl]

This is a fun thread to follow! The clock is really coming together nicely!

[DickB]

A lot of threads show finished work, but I thought it would be good to follow a work in progress and allow others to make comments and suggestions as the project progresses.

[DickB]

I've been working on the actual clock now. I cut large gears out of 1/4" Baltic birch and pinions out of 7/16" oak. The frame is a simple stick of mahogany which I may or may not shape a little.

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I came up with this clutch to disengage the seconds drive in order to set the clock. You just push the button on the back of the clock, then rotate the minutes hands (which drive the hours hands of course) to set the time, then release the button. The seconds hand will keep moving if the motor is running.

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Here's a numbers ring design I am working.
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I learned that my timing motor is on backorder, but I found another supplier and it may arrive tomorrow.

[JDPratt]

Very cool. I like the spring disengage to set the clock.

[DickB]

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I like the style of these, but as it turns out I pushed the envelope pretty hard in making them. They're a bit delicate. The hands are only 1/4" deep at their deepest, and not easy to carve. After putting them on the clock, I decided that they need to be bigger. So I will refine them with a bit more heft and probably use the same 7/16" stock that I used for the pinion gears to make them.

[Kenm810]

Looking better every day!
Thanks for Sharing your Photos

[mtylerfl]

Yes, the project is looking fantastic!

[easybuilt]

That is looking great. I am impressed!

[Oldtrainerguy]

Awesome work!

[Capt Bruce]

DickB,

It is just so COOL to see this grow day by day. Thanks so much for keeping us involved in the process, ooops and all. A wonderful project both for your imaginative design and the overall execution.

[DickB]

Thanks all. This thread has been fun for me, too.

I carved some thicker and bigger hands that fit the scale of the piece better. I also carved the numbers ring in four pieces. I'm disappointed with the epoxy that I used. It's supposed to set up in 60 minutes, but it's not set after 5 hours, so no more work today. I hope it's set tomorrow. It's packaged in one of those dual-plunger dispensers, so the ratio of the mix should have been correct.

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I also had problems with two potential motor supplies. In both cases, I was never contacted when the motors were either backordered or not available. So I wasted a couple of weeks. I think I have some on the way now from a surplus place. They are 3/4 RPM, not 1 RPM, but I just need to cut a bigger pinion gear to make them work.

[quarrydesigns]

Not sure if it will meet you needs but I have used this 1rpm motor in the past, was always in stock.

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/ACM-339/1-RPM-115-VAC-TIMING-MOTOR/1.html

Daniel Smith
Quarry Designs Wood Working
www.quarrydesignswoodworking.com

[jiml]

I've found out the hard way if the epoxy is old it won't harden.

[DickB]

quarrydesigns, I was looking for a motor with a longer shaft and no gear, but yes, that one will probably work.

jiml, probably the case here; I think my epoxy is a year or two old.

I sanded the numbers ring and attached the larger hands. Pretty much waiting on motors to finish the base of the clock.

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[cestout]

Are you going to sell this in the pattern sotre as a project for other carvers?
Clint.

[DickB]

Funny you should ask. I just sent paperwork to LHR today. I will probably need to build at least one more clock myself and write up some construction instructions to go with the project, so it won't happen overnight.

[cestout]

If you have not writrten project instructions previously and have MSPublisher, PM me andwill send you my template.
Clint

[jaroot]

I'm looking forward to it! This is a project that I've been wanting to try for sometime. Thanks!

[DickB]

I'm working on some variations for this project while I'm waiting for my motors to arrive. This is a more interesting gear that is carved not just cut, and is a nice option to the flat gears cut from Baltic birch. For this one I used oak that I resawed to 1/8" thick, then laminated cross grain to 1/4" to prevent warping. My band saw is not really good enough to do this well, so I'm ordering some 1/8" stock from a craft wood supplier.
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[SteveEJ]

Question.. For simplicity, could you not leave the wood in a single layer and stabilize it? I turn a lot of Pens and use Stabilized wood blanks. Basically, they soak the wood in thin CA glue, allowing it to penetrate well then remove and allow to dry without an accelerator. The result is wood that is harder, moisture proof and warp resistant.

Just an idea..

[DickB]

Do you know of a supplier of 1/4" sheets? Sounds like something I would not do myself.

[SteveEJ]

Not sheets, no. I would not think it would be too difficult. The key would be ventilation. If it were me, I would carve the piece as you have shown in the above picture and then after it is cleaned up, put into some thin CA and allow it to soak in. You might even get by with a good coating (rather submerging) of CA on each side followed by a light sand and buff. It does not need a lot to seal and really strengthen and stabilize the part. May be good for a experiment on a wood gear you are doing nothing with..

[DickB]

It's an interesting idea, but I think I will stick with lamination. Even the 7/16" stock that I bought is not flat but cupped a bit, so there is a chance that a gear cut from 1/4" stock would be warped from the start, before treating it. Laminating is not hard to do, and the finished pieces look good in my opinion. Perhaps some other brave soul will give your method a try.

[DickB]

At last I got a suitable motor and installed it in the clock. I've been working on the base, which is not quite finished yet. I'm still tweaking a few things while I build a second clock.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds1aIUPD-FM

[gregsolano]

This may be the first project I ever buy. It looks fantastic!

[DickB]

I redid the frame and completed the base. The cord will run under the base when the clock is reassembled. I attached the numbers ring to the frame and frame to the base. After checking everything out, I stripped it down and put a coat of polyurethane on. This one should be finished soon.

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[quarrydesigns]

What kind of motor did you end up using?

[DickB]

What kind of motor did you end up using?
The one that you suggested. It woks fine, but occasionally makes a little more noise than I like.

[DickB]

I completed the first clock. I'm in the process of fine-tuning the project files and writing up build instructions. Lots of pictures are needed, and I need to finish build of a second clock to get them all. I hope to have everything ready in 4-5 days.

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[gregsolano]

Any idea yet how accurate it is?

[DickB]

It's very accurate. It uses a synchronous motor. This type of motor runs at a speed that is proportional to the line frequency of 60 hertz (in the US) - for example, 360 RPM. The motor is then geared down internally to 1 RPM. The power companies actually regulate the frequency, so synchronous motors will run at rated speed.

[gregsolano]

It's very accurate. It uses a synchronous motor. This type of motor runs at a speed that is proportional to the line frequency of 60 hertz (in the US) - for example, 360 RPM. The motor is then geared down internally to 1 RPM. The power companies actually regulate the frequency, so synchronous motors will run at rated speed.

Great, It looks as good as it runs then!

[DickB]

I completed assembly of my second clock, making a few tweaks to the design along the way.

The motor that I got turned out to be too noisy. That motor was made by Bristol Motors, and as best I can tell the company quit making them and/or went out of business years ago. I knew that synchronous motors of this type are used in water softeners and ice makers, but also time clocks an chart recorders. It's difficult and costly to buy small quantities of motors direct from manufacturers, but after some phone calls I located at least two sources for motors through companies that sell parts for time clocks. I'm currently using a $25 motor by Synchron and it is whisper quiet. Motors can also occasionally be found on eBay, but I'd be a little cautious about used, surplus, or new old stock - some motors being sold are over thirty years old! I will include sources in the build and assembly instructions, and may use a link to a web site to keep this information current. The instructions are nearly complete, very detailed with lots of pictures.

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[rnichols]

DickB
Have you tried Klockit ?

[DickB]

This project has just been added to the store:
http://store.carvewright.com/product.php?productid=21882&cat=0&page=1

For those who are unfamiliar with the store, you can click the Try button and download the project and complete instructions for free. The instructions have lots of pictures describing construction and assembly, and what parts (other than the wooden ones that you make) are needed to build a clock. That way, you can get a good idea of what is involved before you commit.

[gregsolano]

I am glad you got it done, I am sure there will be many sales as it is one of the coolest projects I have seen.

[DickB]

Thanks. It's one of my favorite pieces.

[dover-sherborn]

Has anyone tried to make this project yet??? I have been working on it for the past few hours and have become very frustrated. I had to order all the parts, and Im starting to think the parts list is wrong. The list calls for a 3/8 inch tube and hole to go into the 12 tooth gear, however this will not assemble properly. I just now read through this posting and have noticed the picture from the back view has a much smaller hole than 3/8. If anyone can let me know what size rod and hole they used to finish putting that gear on that would be great. I hate to get negative but its downright frustrating to buy this plan for a student, use hours of my time carving it, and now with three days of school left we cant finish his project. I would hope that the fine people at carvewright test these files before they sell them, but unless I’m nuts this is not the case.

any help would be great..... thanks

Nick

[DickB]

I am the project developer. Sorry for the trouble. I took great care in writing the instructions but I can't say that there is no issue with them. I am out of pocket until Monday evening and don't have any project materials with me. I will send you a private message with my home phone if you can wait until Tuesday. If not call and my wife can give you my cell number and I will try to help as best I can.

[DickB]

Nick,

I reread your post and I believe that the correct size for that tube is 3/16" not 3/8". Again I am working from memory. I'm very sorry for the error. I will check this and get it corrected as soon as I can. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

[dover-sherborn]

DickB

Thanks for the offer to help. I figured the size must be 3/16 and ordered the tube. I am sorry for the anger of my last post, that was wrong of me, your project is simply amazing, I can not wait to see this done. As you can imagine I was upset with the stress of a tight deadline (end of school year) and in my other post the issues I am having with my machine carving sideways. So again I am sorry, hopefully we can get those plans changed before many others buy the project.

again thanks so so much for a great project

Nick

[gapdev]

Where are you buying the 10 1/2" Maple? The widest I can find is 7 inches.

Kenny

[AskBud]

Where are you buying the 10 1/2" Maple? The widest I can find is 7 inches.

Kenny
Avoid the BIG BOX stores and go to the Yellow Pages and look for "Hardwood Stores" around your area. Call them you cross check if they have the width you could use.
Here is one that may work: http://www.th-h.com/index.htm
AskBud

[gapdev]

Hi Bud,

Thanks for the link. I do go to Austin in Santa Ana (apparently owned by the same Company). I spend way too much money in that place!

But, I don't have a planer, so I like to buy wood that is surfaced as close to the thickness as possible.

I avoid the Big Boxes as much as possible. They wouldn't have Maple, anyway.

Has anyone done business with Baird Brothers (bairdbrothers.com)?

My biggest problem is warpage. I live next to the Ocean and by the time I get home with the lumber, I swear it has already warped!

Another question about this clock. Is there any reason why the Dial isn't cut out continuously, instead of in 4 parts? Is it because it is too wide?

Kenny

[dover-sherborn]

Kenny,

I teach a woodshop class, the maple is a glue up of mulitiple boards. I thought the same of the clock face, I took the image and put it in its own file and carved it out of a solid piece. Helps to keep grain lines clean and saves a step. I think Dickb put the clock face into the 4 sections to help save wood. Its very wasteful to do it the way I did. I also think he did it to make it easier for people that cant find wide stock easily. If you are buying the project please note a slight error. everything thats labeled as 3/8 should be 3/16, both tube and drill sizes. The directions are good and the project looks to be alot of fun, cant wait to see it done.

Nick

[gapdev]

Hi Nick,

I bought the project and made a note in the PDF that the 3/8 tube is actually 3/16. I'll make a similar note for the drill sizes.

I was hoping to avoid glue ups but if that's the only way, then so be it.

I like the idea of having the dial as 1 piece. The waste is not a problem for me.

I've been waiting for some CNC clock plans like this for a long time. I'd love to see a Pendulum version.

Kenny

[mtylerfl]

...
I was hoping to avoid glue ups but if that's the only way, then so be it.

I like the idea of having the dial as 1 piece. The waste is not a problem for me...
Kenny

Hello,

In my area (Brunswick, GA), Maple is actually less expensive than the Select Pine I buy at Lowes (which I've been told is not uncommon for many parts of the country - clear pine is harder to come by, apparently). I found a local cabinet shop that stocks all types of hardwoods and will special order anything I need. I don't have a planer either, so they plane and surface/sand the boards for me...I pick out the wood in the morning...pick it up that afternoon by 3pm (they close at 3). For some projects, a glue-up may be best to avoid warp as much as possible. However, the Maple boards I have been buying are at least 11¼" to 12" wide (REAL inches). The last batch I bought, the boards are 12¾" wide! So, see if you can locate a cabinet shop that keeps a good supply of wood on hand...or, perhaps they can order boards in wider widths if you prefer not to do any glue-ups.

[DickB]

I used a four-piece clock ring partially for marterial and partially for aesthetics - I like the change in grain orientation. To each his own. I am on the road, but when I am able I will post a pattern to carve the ring in one piece.

[DickB]

I've been waiting for some CNC clock plans like this for a long time. I'd love to see a Pendulum version.
Kenny

I am experimenting with an electrically-driven pendulum to power a clock like this (I don't like winding), but as summer is here it is not a priority.

[gapdev]

I am experimenting with an electrically-driven pendulum to power a clock like this

Can't wait to see it.

I'm just the opposite. Summertime is my Woodworking time since it's so damn cold and rainy in the garage during the Winter and I can't run a heater and the machinery at the same time.


I will post a pattern to carve the ring in one piece

Looking forward to it. I don't like the glue lines is the reason I prefer a solid piece. I've got a bunch of School House clocks where the angled or round faces have separated (they generally are made up of around 8 separate pieces) and it bugs me so I've been wanting to make my own clock cases with solid front faces.


Keeping in mind that I'm a newbie with the CarveWright, is there any reason why the machine is not used to drill the holes in the gears and other pieces instead of doing this by hand?

Kenny

[gapdev]

Whoops,

I just read your reasoning for not having the machine drill the holes.

Kenny

[DickB]

Here is a one-piece ring project. Please note that I have not actually carved this, so use at your own risk.

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A tip from having assembled and run two clocks for an extended period now: When you assemble the second-hand shaft, place a nylon washer on the shaft of the 12-tooth pinion assembly first, then insert the shaft into the main gear assembly, then install the second hand. In other words, use a washer between the 12-tooth pinion and the 5-arm spiral gear. A washer between the second and minute hands is not necessary.

[gapdev]

Dick,

Did you change the design of the seconds hand? Mine look nothing like the pictures. The ones in the project have a round "cap" over the had shaft section.

Also, the hand made tabs seem to be a bit on the large size.

Kenny

[DickB]

I did change the second hand design to be more balanced. Thanks for the feedback on the tabs. They may be a bit wide, but they are not very tall. I use a fine wood rasp to clean them up, and that works pretty well for me.