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View Full Version : Wait, what? WHAT?! I think I'll stick with Fletcher's solution.



DurhamDev
03-22-2011, 12:36 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L18j4TJ-0dA

While this *might* work, given the appropriate care to attach the vacuum attachment to the CarveWright's lid, the 'under a minute' solution proposed is ... kinda scary.

lynnfrwd
03-22-2011, 12:41 PM
LOL!!! LOL!!! LOL!!!!

Do I need to say this system is neither supported nor endorsed by LHR?!.....

lynnfrwd
03-22-2011, 12:48 PM
I must say though, it is good old CW customers' ingenuity that drives the product! Keep pushing us!!!

DurhamDev
03-22-2011, 12:54 PM
I must say though, it is good old CW customers' ingenuity that drives the product! Keep pushing us!!!

Translation: "My marketing sense is tingling..."

How long before dust collection (such as Fletchers ingenious solution) is standard with the CarveWright? It can't be a bad idea, given the feedback for the solution. And considering you can carve your own in a couple of hours, for a cost of less than a foot-long sandwich from Subway, I would think it's something that could be sold for - let's say - $49.99 + S/H?

dougmsbbs
03-22-2011, 12:56 PM
So, lynnfrwd, are you ever going to comment on if cutting the lid voids the warranty?

I know a lid is cheap, but I'm really waiting to do it to my new 'C' model until I hear from you guys down there. Whats going to happen if you get one back for repair under warranty and it has a cut lid?

Inquiring minds want to know....

DurhamDev
03-22-2011, 12:59 PM
So, lynnfrwd, are you ever going to comment on if cutting the lid voids the warranty?

I know it would be a little bit louder, but could you not remove the lid and tape the sensor?

dougmsbbs
03-22-2011, 01:05 PM
Well, sure, you could, I guess. But I really hate to remove any safety feature. After a couple of decades in repairing industrial presses, I came away with all fingers still attached. A record I'd kinda like to keep... :)

DurhamDev
03-22-2011, 01:19 PM
Well, sure, you could, I guess. But I really hate to remove any safety feature. After a couple of decades in repairing industrial presses, I came away with all fingers still attached. A record I'd kinda like to keep... :)

Good call! (You actually made me remember a story of when I worked for a company that made rubberized covers for military vehicles.)

I worked for a company during the summer when I was a teenager, running a machine that would bond rubberized eyelets to heavy rubberized covers, after which they would be painted in a camouflage pattern and installed on military vehicles. The way the machine worked was, you would lay out the rubber on a metal plate, put the eyelet in place, and then cover it with a metal die that would make contact with the machine's plate above. You'd step back, press two buttons, and the machine would press down and together, and run a bunch of electricity between the plates, melting the eyelet to the rubber. Once it was done, the plates would raise, and you could remove the piece. Well, there was a little 'tool' that had been built to measure where the eyelet would go, and it was no more than a couple of pieces of acrylic held together with pop rivets. I had the (bad) habit of leaving the tool on top of the top plate on the machine, and one day, I stepped back and pressed the buttons, and then noticed it was on the top plate of the machine. I reached for it to remove it (as my Manager had warned me it wasn't smart to leave it there) and when my thumb got close to it, there was a arc of electricity that ran from the pop rivet to my thumb.

I have to stop here. I didn't actually see the arc. What I saw was a bright flash of light, akin to a flashbulb, go off, engulfing my hand to the wrist in bright light. It was as if my hand had disappeared inside the sun.

There was a sharp pain, I remember, as if I had gotten a needle in my thumb, which radiated up my hand to the wrist. I instinctively pulled my hand back from the shock, and when I looked at the left side of my thumb, I noticed it was milky white. It didn't hurt any more, but it looked very strange. I reached towards it with my left hand, and pulled away many, many layers of dead skin, which came off in a 1/4" sized chunk, all together. It was really, really strange to see, as my thumb seemed to now have a crescent shaped chunk out of it, but the electricity had magically cauterized the wound, so there wasn't any blood. Just a new layer of skin, it would seem, which was much thinner, and you could actually see the tip of the bone of my thumb through it. Over the next couple of days, I guess it stretched and filled out with blood and all, because it did come back to normal, and my thumb looks fine today.

I was very lucky to not have lost the thumb, I'm sure, as I'm certain if I had delayed pulling my hand back a second longer, it would have obviously done more damage than it did. (I wish I could say that was the last time I did that same move - as it happened about a week later. Not as bad this time, as I recall reaching towards the tool when my brain said, "STOP! Don't you remember what happened last time?" And I did pull back quicker, but no. Not before another (much smaller) arc shocked my same thumb, which was a LOT more sensitive this time. But, good news on that, no damage this time.

No damage, of course, except to my pride.

lynnfrwd
03-22-2011, 01:29 PM
We are still not endorsing cutting a hole in your machine. It is a "safety/liability" issue. If we receive even a machine that is out of warranty with a hole in the cover, we cannot send it back that way. We would require that you buy a new or used cover before it could pass QA and be shipped back to you.

Warranty states the machine cannot be modified or the warranty will be voided, so if you are under warranty or not, you'd better have a back up lid before sending a machine into us.

DurhamDev: My marketing senses are ALWAYS tingling...doctor keeps wanting to call it carpal tunnel. I was actually referring to the CT being after the Rock and the importer after the AI2MPC. How long? Don't know...our guys are peddling as fast as they can to catch up to you guys! Dougmsbbs and his mugs is another perfect example of customer driven products!

lynnfrwd
03-22-2011, 01:34 PM
What a gruesome story!!! I guess you answered your own question, now didn't you!?

dougmsbbs
03-22-2011, 01:48 PM
Thank you! Thats all I needed to hear. Instead of all of us users out here talking about it, it's nice to hear the 'official' position. And, just as an aside, I actually agree with that position. If you endorsed cutting up the machine, well, where you draw the line down the road when it got out of hand? This way, it's on the person doing the modifications if an injury takes place. Does not mean I don't (and won't) do it, though... (big a$$ grin)

And thanks for the comment about my mugs! Have not had anyone yet that picked one up to look at them that didn't eventually buy one.

CarverJerry
03-22-2011, 07:22 PM
I think the machine could be designed very easy to work with an internal vacuum and port it out the side opposite the keypad. Wouldn't take very much engineering and would sure make the machine cleaner at all times. Just my 2¢ worth guys. BTW, I love my Ringneck Blues vacuum adapter...

CJ

lawrence
03-26-2011, 02:24 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L18j4TJ-0dA

While this *might* work, given the appropriate care to attach the vacuum attachment to the CarveWright's lid, the 'under a minute' solution proposed is ... kinda scary.

I don't know... if it works, it works. I've since gone with fletcher's solution but before that I had a hole cut in the lid ... wait... I mean "a friend of mine cut a hole in his lid" and it worked fine to just hoover it out as the carve went on. It worked fine and my (I mean HIS) festool vac doesn't give off a static electric charge from the hose.


LOL!!! LOL!!! LOL!!!!

Do I need to say this system is neither supported nor endorsed by LHR?!.....

I appreciated the guy sharing his way of doing things and am not going to laugh at someone that is trying--and it ticks me off a little bit that others would-especially while representing a company.

And on the warranty side again... I have just read and re-read my manual and warranty...

I see that modifications are not covered by the warranty as it is stated, however Lynn, your statements of it voiding your warranty do not appear to be in there anywhere. Could you please point out where it is in the Carvewright A and B model warranties?

Also, I would love to know the law that allows a company to keep a person's property-- LHR may choose to not fix an item if the member is not willing to pay to replace the cover, however I doubt you are allowed to keep the item just because it has been modded.

Lynn, I truly appreciate the work you do getting us information here, but these statements should be backed up with links to the actual laws or links or references to the area of the warranty where they are listed. This is the first I've heard about it and I've read my warranty as well as looking at the announcements here in the forum and cannot find that statement anywhere in the paperwork that came with my machine when I purchased it.

If this were a private member I would say the above in private, but as they are statements made by you as a member of the carvewright staff and we all take these statements to be company policy, I would rather we all figure it out publicly so that we can all see them. Again, I appreciate all you do to support us here and am simply trying to make sure that LHR is not "making it up as they go" without taking the proper legal steps-- I love my Carvewright and want to see an equal level of professionalism out of its parent company with regard to legal statements.

If someone sends in a machine with a hole in the cover and chooses not to buy a new one, what will happen? Will our property be "confiscated"? What about if the cover is modded but still performs as intended by the manufacturer (recovered)? In the meantime should we all send our carvewrights to Sears for repairs--and would they they keep it?

Thank you for the response--
Lawrence

DickB
03-26-2011, 06:37 PM
As many of us have experienced, you can receive warranty coverage on bad parts and replace them yourself without sending your machine in, so cutting the cover in that case is a non-issue regarding the warranty. I would not recommend the machine to anyone who cannot do his or her own basic repairs, because warranty coverage by sending the machine in is expensive in both time and shipping charges. If you're going to pay the cost of shipping the machine, the expense of a new cover is almost irrelevant. In the long run, a dust collection system will prevent more problems than will be fixed under warranty, so the issue of cutting the cover is a no-brainer in my view. I would not hesitate for a minute to cut the cover on a brand-new machine. In virtually every instance of dust collection mods that I have seen posted, safety is not compromised.

fwharris
03-26-2011, 10:08 PM
When I was getting things set up for my DC-Insert what I was told (in my own words) was that the cover would no longer be covered under the warranty if it was modified. LHR does not endorse any modification that modifies or makes any safety device inoperable. If a customer needed to send the machine in for work they had an option of buying a 2nd cover for the machine to be sent in or specify that the cover had been modified and to not replace the cover. (I think Al set the precedence for that one HEHE!)

Digitalwoodshop
03-26-2011, 10:50 PM
I cut 2 inches off the bottom edge.... The cover still closes.....

AL

lynnfrwd
03-27-2011, 10:07 AM
I appreciated the guy sharing his way of doing things and am not going to laugh at someone that is trying--and it ticks me off a little bit that others would-especially while representing a company.

My personal comment to this post would be that I should have been sleeping since 6 am this morning instead of thinking about this thread, editing and re-editing my response, and contemplating what repercussions might ensue.

I am human, I have a sense of humor, and if you looked at the next post I made, you would see I gave the guy credit for his ingenuity and encouraged it. I don't feel I have done anything unprofessional or offensive, Lawrence, but if you do, then I apologize.


And on the warranty side again... I have just read and re-read my manual and warranty...

I see that modifications are not covered by the warranty as it is stated, however Lynn, your statements of it voiding your warranty do not appear to be in there anywhere. Could you please point out where it is in the Carvewright A and B model warranties?

Also, I would love to know the law that allows a company to keep a person's property-- LHR may choose to not fix an item if the member is not willing to pay to replace the cover, however I doubt you are allowed to keep the item just because it has been modded.

Lynn, I truly appreciate the work you do getting us information here, but these statements should be backed up with links to the actual laws or links or references to the area of the warranty where they are listed. This is the first I've heard about it and I've read my warranty as well as looking at the announcements here in the forum and cannot find that statement anywhere in the paperwork that came with my machine when I purchased it.

If this were a private member I would say the above in private, but as they are statements made by you as a member of the carvewright staff and we all take these statements to be company policy, I would rather we all figure it out publicly so that we can all see them. Again, I appreciate all you do to support us here and am simply trying to make sure that LHR is not "making it up as they go" without taking the proper legal steps-- I love my Carvewright and want to see an equal level of professionalism out of its parent company with regard to legal statements.

If someone sends in a machine with a hole in the cover and chooses not to buy a new one, what will happen? Will our property be "confiscated"? What about if the cover is modded but still performs as intended by the manufacturer (recovered)? In the meantime should we all send our carvewrights to Sears for repairs--and would they they keep it?

Thank you for the response--
Lawrence


http://www.carvewright.com/2010CWweb/standard.htm

"Any unauthorized repairs, modifications, or alterations will void the warranty."


So, lynnfrwd, are you ever going to comment on if cutting the lid voids the warranty?

Unofficial statement - I was asked (twice) to comment, so I did. I am no legal statement and I am sure if any of this currently hypothetical speculation ever came into question, I would not be the one handling the legal aspects of it. I venture to ask how many of you have had your property confiscated by LHR or warranties voided because you cut a hole in the cover? Again, it is a safety/liability issue. We would require that you buy a new or used cover before it could pass QA and be shipped back to you. I am not aware of anyone that has not understood and accepted this policy. Will it come up? I don't know? UL certification requires safety measures be met. LHR is not going to put themselves in a liable situation and I think any customer can understand and appreciate that.

As I told a senior forum member on Friday "I am addicted to this forum, too". I also happen to be pretty passionate about CarveWright, LHR and my customers, which I guess is why I have allowed this post to bother me so much. I will continue to try to find the answers to questions I am asked and no, I might not always say it as professional or PC as it should be. It is not my intention to offend forum members or to misrepresent LHR. IF I have, then, again, I apologize.

Connie

Fletcher
03-27-2011, 11:14 AM
A very professional, dignified, AND HUMAN, response Connie!

TerryT
03-27-2011, 11:39 AM
Also, I would love to know the law that allows a company to keep a person's property-- LHR may choose to not fix an item if the member is not willing to pay to replace the cover, however I doubt you are allowed to keep the item just because it has been modded.


Hmmm... this one bothers me. You are obviously missing the entire point of the discussion. Most of us know there is no law that would allow anyone to keep your machine just because you bi-passed a safety feature. However, there are laws and standards that prevent manufacturers from shipping a machine with safety problems to a customer. Knowing it had defective safety devices would make them liable for any injuries you suffered as a result of your modification. Ever hear of OSHA? If they shipped out a machine with safety controls that had been compromised they would have their @$$ sued, probably by the very person that did it and then the government would shut them down.

Obviously, you would be free to pick it up or have the modified part replaced.

dougmsbbs
03-27-2011, 11:52 AM
What this thread comes down to is someone needs to walk down the hallway and tell the engineers to incorporate a dust collection port on the machine right from the factory. Solve all issues would it not? And it would be to LHR's advantage. Everyone knows the machine runs better for longer with a DC attached. Lower warranty costs to the company. Talk money to them. THAT they will understand.
How about a factory upgrade, with a redesigned lid with the port built in? The dust collector could come down with the lid, allowing easy bit changes. There are some clever people down there in Texas. Surely they can do this right, and make more money from selling the upgrade...

TerryT
03-27-2011, 12:00 PM
What this thread comes down to is someone needs to walk down the hallway and tell the engineers to incorporate a dust collection port on the machine right from the factory. Solve all issues would it not? And it would be to LHR's advantage. Everyone knows the machine runs better for longer with a DC attached. Lower warranty costs to the company. Talk money to them. THAT they will understand.
How about a factory upgrade, with a redesigned lid with the port built in? The dust collector could come down with the lid, allowing easy bit changes. There are some clever people down there in Texas. Surely they can do this right, and make more money from selling the upgrade...

Yep! I agree with ya Doug. But in the meantime anyone that wants to do a similar mod could also buy an extra clear lid to install if and when they have to send the machine in to LHR. ;)

cestout
03-27-2011, 02:34 PM
How about a dust collector port in the right end panel. If it were set yup for a 4" hose but choked down to a, say 1" x 4" slit, Bernoulli's principal, "as velocity increases pressure decreases", you would have a lot so stuff pulled that way. And this would be totally out of the way for access to the machine. It would also be an easily installed upgrade. I thought of this when I had that panel off repairing my Y truck drive.
Clint

dougmsbbs
03-27-2011, 02:37 PM
Have to remember that head goes up and down in relation to the side panel. I'm sure they could come up with a way if they really tried...

TerryT
03-27-2011, 02:44 PM
Wasn't there some pictures of machines setup with a 4 inch hole in the side panel? Hey Al, didn't you try that once. It seems like it should work pretty well.

Kenm810
03-27-2011, 02:57 PM
Sounds pretty familiar --- I posted nearly the same words two or three years ago,
Most everyone on the forum knows how I’ve been tinkering and modifying my Machine since I got it.
Two of the first extra parts I bought were a right side panel and a clear lid with all the screws and stuff that go with them, Along with extra Bits, Belts, Board Sensor, Lid Switches, Cables and Truck bearings all at the same time to save a few bucks on shipping and Handling. In the first year or two my machine went back and forth to Texas 3 times, as I was learning to work on it my self, each time I removed my modified parts and shipped it back with the stock parts I origonally bought it with. As I recall the side panel cost me $11.00 and the clear Lid around $20.00 I have since bought other items and extra machine parts from folks on the Forum that have parted out damaged or non-working Machines, -- so I may continue tinkering with the modifications on my carver.

It works fine for me ----!

TerryT
03-27-2011, 04:56 PM
Yep, those are the pictures I was thinking of Ken. I knew we had someone on here that had done it. It looks like it should work pretty well, especially if the cutmotor exhaust is pushing chips to that side like it is supposed to.

Digitalwoodshop
03-27-2011, 05:09 PM
I also cut a hole in the side too after Ken. That machine has not seen much use. When you crank the head down, the opening is blocked somewhat.

AL

DurhamDev
03-27-2011, 05:12 PM
Most everyone on the forum knows how I’ve been tinkering and modifying my Machine since I got it.

Your mod is very impressive! How well do they work? The machine looks extremely clean inside! (Am I correct, that it was simply a 4" PVC pipe out the side, and some 'to fit' PVC out the back port?)

Fletcher
03-27-2011, 06:12 PM
From an engineering perspective it just looks so darn good!

Kenm810
03-27-2011, 06:26 PM
It's worked perfect for me with plenty of room for air flow --- but you have to remember nearly all my carved projects are close to 14" wide,
or mounted on a Sled/Carrier Board 10" to 14" Wide, therefore blocking most of the Air and Chips that would nomrally go out the bottom of the machine.
Also don't forget I have equipped my Machine with a low pressure Air Jet attched to the "Z" Truck, and travels with it to sweep the dust and chips
off the project surface, away from the electronics and out the port on the side of my machine.
---- Like I said it works fine for me, --- with the way I've used my Machine.

If you Search the CW Forum on "Dust Collection, Air Jet, or Air Blast" you'll fine plenty of reading material and photos about them.

lawrence
03-27-2011, 06:51 PM
First off to everyone-- I'm sorry I pushed the "send" button before I took a 5 minute walk to cool off and actually "think". This was a mistake on my part.

Lynn, I owe you a public apology-- I got the impression that someone's efforts were being publicly made fun of and in haste I recipricated by publicly lashing out at you. I'm truly sorry I did so and certainly wish that I hadn't.

...second apology-- I went to my users manual and read it again-- no dice finding the paper you showed in the link. So then I pulled my original box out of the rafters and pulled out the packing materials and what did I see on the bottom of the box but the very paper you linked to with the words as you wrote them. I feel (and I'm sure look) like a real horse's patoot.

You were just trying to get some joy out of your job and I'm aware that I probably sucked some of the joy out and I apologize for that as well--it was immature--and quite a bit ungentlemanly on my part. Your worth as a link to LHR is invaluable and it is of even more worth that you have become more than just a representative of LHR but you have become part of our online family. If it were physically possible I'd be kicking my own butt right about now.

To everyone else here on the forum that tried to "speed bump" over my obnixous behavior and obvious exaggeration I appreciate it and I'm sorry for any discomfort I might have caused.

Lawrence

TerryT
03-27-2011, 07:39 PM
No problem Lawrence at least not from my perspective. As one that often regrets pushing the send button I know that sometimes we speak without clear thought. Actually I applaud your defense of others ideas even if they are not accepted by everyone.

lynnfrwd
03-27-2011, 09:47 PM
Lawrence thank you for your response and apology. I know with written word we are often misread without the inflection of voice or facial expressions. I too will read and reread my posts before hitting send and try not to post without careful consideration. Thanks again, dear sir, and consider it a non-issue.

lawrence
03-28-2011, 12:05 AM
Thanks for being so understanding Connie and Terry-- My wife just gave me that look when I told her about this post and said "I told you to walk away and think" I really should listen to that woman.

At work my computer desktop background is the following picture (though it is not G rated liket this one...I cleaned it up on the computer for this post)

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u313/ldr_klr/howaboutanicebigcup.jpg

Perhaps I should print this out and put in on my desk here at home and look at it before I post from now on.... on second thought... new avatar

Lawrence

Capt Bruce
03-28-2011, 10:09 AM
WHOAAAA, For just a moment there I thought you were posting the original version Lawrence, and then I scanned down the page . . . Nice clean-up.
Great Avatar however and a good reminder to all of us to read the message as everyone else will read it.

From and old British poem "The Laws of the Navy"



Dost think, in a moment of anger,

'Tis well with thy seniors to fight?
They prosper, who burn in the morning,
The letters they wrote over-night;
For some there be, shelved, and forgotten,
With nothing to thank for their fate,
Save That (on a half-sheet of foolscap),
Which a fool "had the honour to state---."






Glad to see like a good family we can agree to disagree sometimes, apologize when appropriate, accept and forgive graciously, find some humor in the greater situation and move on closer for the experience.

TerryT
03-29-2011, 08:23 AM
What this thread comes down to is someone needs to walk down the hallway and tell the engineers to incorporate a dust collection port on the machine right from the factory. Solve all issues would it not? And it would be to LHR's advantage. Everyone knows the machine runs better for longer with a DC attached. Lower warranty costs to the company. Talk money to them. THAT they will understand.
How about a factory upgrade, with a redesigned lid with the port built in? The dust collector could come down with the lid, allowing easy bit changes. There are some clever people down there in Texas. Surely they can do this right, and make more money from selling the upgrade...

Maybe we could suggest to LHR that the next manufacturing run on the clear covers include a port for dust collection and come with a clear, removeable, snap in plug for those that don't have a dust collector. I'm sure that with a properly designed, snap in (removeable), clear plug that the cover would meet safety standards. Then just remove the dust collector and snap in the plug if you have to ship the machine to LHR for repair.

Capt Bruce
03-29-2011, 05:52 PM
Maybe your idea could be made with a standard coffee can flexible lid size rim hole Terry, or maybe my wife wouldn't miss one of the Tupperware lids . . . might as well go for easy since it does not have to be an air tight fit around the hose.