A rude reminder of the recent past

[hess]

I have 3 units 2 CC and 1 CW the newest one is band new with one hr o it and I had never changed over the QC to the Rock yet as I was just using it for scanin

Well yesterday I had the other 2 that are eq with the rocks working when a bud who we had been working a crave for 3 days came over so thought heck just need to add a 30 min smal carve to completed it so use the new one with the QCs. Yep you guessed problems

the unit was clean and lubed the spindle has never been off the bit went in just like up town and about 1 min into the crave on a very nice piece of Cherry I hear this old familiar sound buy the time I could reach the unit the sinpdile was well on the way to the trash but worst then that 3 day of work and wood are gone.
Im very Glad CE decided to go with a unit set up like the rock and looks like they got it right.
It is sad they did not see fit to recall what was left out there and get rid of those sucky QC.
Anyone says user error suck on your socks as I have been down this road for over 3 years, the red lines were in line this time the spindle came off

So an FYI to any of you newbie running the QC units chuck those QCs before you live to regret it. When I 1st started with CW My 1it unit tossed a bit out into a stud less than 1 foot from my 10 year old GD head course most of the alders and cw here yell UE, UE but them within 2 year CW themselves changed the units

Now to CW out there before you get your shorts in a wad I thank you for stepping up there and getting it right thus allowing us to has a safe and reliable unit like we have now but the whole QC thing still sucks

[Frederick_P]

Too bad they didn't reward Ron Justice for his excellent work in saving so many users from dumping their machine in the trash bin. They should have licensed the Rock and supplied them with every new machine, offered them to existing customers who had the QC at cost and owned up to their design blunder. Instead, they took Ron's innovation, made a version of their own and ensured that it was proprietary so it would be difficult to use third party bits. Ron may have saved their butts by providing a solution that, if left unsolved, could have completely destroyed the credibility of the machine. Instead they blamed their customers for "user error" and told Ron to stick it. I think that will also be remembered for a long time.

[liquidguitars]

Too bad they didn't reward Ron Justice for his excellent work in saving so many users from dumping their machine in the trash bin.


I had three machines at the time very true..


Anyone says user error suck on your socks as I have been down this road for over 3 years, the red lines were in line this time the spindle came off


So true! one of my first calls to LHR was telling them about the QC..

[DurhamDev]

Ok, as I read through, I find I don't know as much as I'd like to, so I figure this would be the perfect thread in which to have a couple of questions answered... I've watched the installation video for the Rock Chuck, and have to say I'm impressed. All things considered, for $149, you seem to get a quality product and almost everything you need to replace the QC (that's the "quick chuck", right?)...

I have a "B" model, I believe, and I actually was given a spare (brand new) collet and band that just looks like a replacement QC. Given what I've read above, I think I'm pretty anxious to replace what I have with a Rock Chuck or CarveTight. If I go Rock Chuck, I would probably go with the 1/2" model, and probably add the three additional sleeves so that I can use any size bit. When I read up on the different collet adapters for the CarveTight, are they essentially the same as the sleeves for the Rock Chuck?

I guess it all boils down to this: Given the choice, what benefit does the Rock Chuck give over the CarveTight?

[SteveEJ]

Retrofitting older units with the QC, Using bits that are not pressed into bit holders for the CT, not having to buy all your bits from one source. Just off the top of my head. I am sure someone will come up with some cons but I have the Rock and my issues mostly went away after I installed it. JMHO

[DurhamDev]

Using bits that are not pressed into bit holders for the CT, not having to buy all your bits from one source.

...ah, good call. Question - I don't have the bits readily available, and I can't say that I have the answer off the top of my head. I was provided a pretty large set of bits, and all of them are in the existing 1/2" or 1/4" bit adapters (of which I think I also have four or five extras)... Do they hold the bit in place with an Allen screw or something? (If not, how do they hold the bit in?)

[liquidguitars]

I guess it all boils down to this: Given the choice, what benefit does the Rock Chuck give over the CarveTight?


As far as I know their about the same.

[hess]

...ah, good call. Question - I don't have the bits readily available, and I can't say that I have the answer off the top of my head. I was provided a pretty large set of bits, and all of them are in the existing 1/2" or 1/4" bit adapters (of which I think I also have four or five extras)... Do they hold the bit in place with an Allen screw or something? (If not, how do they hold the bit in?)
Out of all those router bit you will use maybe 3 unless you are really into diffent stuff but most patterns call for 1 to 3 of the same bits.
The carve bit and cutting bits are the main work horse. the Rock will handle both all them with the sleeves.

The screw up was me because I have a rock as well as a another chuck made buy the maker of another chuck , Mark sell them they work well cost about the same as a rock
I did not want to take the time to break the spindle lose witch in the past could be a hoot this time it saved me the hassle as it came off on its own. this caused the board to be ruin which was about 30 buck of Cherry and today when cooled enough to be around the unit without throwing it in the trash im now out a bit also. What did I learn? Dont trust those units with the QC they will cause you problem big and small. My 1st unit lost a bit missing my GD by a foot they vibration caused many issues that are now not problems with the CT but Ron and the the maker Mark is selling were the main reason for CW changing the units.
I also agree it would have been great to see CW stand up and retrofit all the old units even if they asked for the cost back I would have been in
but they did like Steve pointed out and instead of using what had been proven to work and allow us the ability to used other bit makers they felt the need to push users into what we currently have most of us that have the Rock will never need to change out. my unit running them both have well over 400 hrs an d not one hic up

I have to say that the Flax we new users got back then as everything being our error got real old, most of them are still here now and provide most of the help and one that I respect very much provide the POMs but as of the coming out of the new CT and seeing what CW did with it well I droped all my memberships with the POMs and the CC and any thing CW was charging for. What do I miss ? The POM as Mike is great but because they are sold thought CW I will not buy them. until the day CW have the brass balls to admit most of that user error was really Quality Control from a company that was having growing pains Users got dumped on, Mods run wild with theaths and banding and deleted post, lots of problems That have been corrected EXCEPT an apology from CW to us who had suffed all the problems and wasted all that $$ on what they said was user error. That my rant
Now we will see if our Mods are indeed as good as I think they now are. If not this will get pulled or locked have a good day all

[rjustice]

Thanks for the kind words about the Rock Chuck system guys... I really do appreciate it :)

[lawrence]

Too bad they didn't reward Ron Justice for his excellent work in saving so many users from dumping their machine in the trash bin. They should have licensed the Rock and supplied them with every new machine, offered them to existing customers who had the QC at cost and owned up to their design blunder. Instead, they took Ron's innovation, made a version of their own and ensured that it was proprietary so it would be difficult to use third party bits. Ron may have saved their butts by providing a solution that, if left unsolved, could have completely destroyed the credibility of the machine. Instead they blamed their customers for "user error" and told Ron to stick it. I think that will also be remembered for a long time.

+1 and well said

Lawrence

[DickB]

Too bad they didn't reward Ron Justice for his excellent work in saving so many users from dumping their machine in the trash bin. They should have licensed the Rock and supplied them with every new machine, offered them to existing customers who had the QC at cost and owned up to their design blunder. Instead, they took Ron's innovation, made a version of their own and ensured that it was proprietary so it would be difficult to use third party bits. Ron may have saved their butts by providing a solution that, if left unsolved, could have completely destroyed the credibility of the machine. Instead they blamed their customers for "user error" and told Ron to stick it. I think that will also be remembered for a long time.
I don't agree with all that. The CT is an improvement on the Rock in my view as it is one piece, The only single-source bits are the carbide carving and cutting bits, and they can be "sourced" from Amazon cheaper than direct. Nothing stopping one from using arbors in the CT to use other bits, even stuff the company doesn't endorse. I think the CT is better than the QC, and it would be nice if companies would provide free upgrades, but not at the expense of their withholding improvements if they would be required to retrofit a large customer base.

Ron saw a need and filled it; many customers of his have taken advantage, and I'm guessing that he hasn't done it all for free and no reward. No foul there as I can see. I'm curious Ron, were you told to "stick it"?

[Digitalwoodshop]

Ron is too much of a Professional to say anything bad about LHR and none of us will really know what was ever said.... So we can add that to the Mysteries of the World like where Jimmy Hoffa is.... LOL.....

But Seriously.... A Poster above mentioned that he was going to buy the Rock in 1/2 inch so it will be compatible with the bits from the CT and that is a great idea... Everyone should keep in mind that the Rock is a 2 part Chuck.... That is a Wonderful Design..... The Top Part mates to the Truck and the Bottom is available in 1/2 inch and 1/4 inch.... The Lower part is EASILY removed and swapped between the 1/4 and 1/2 inch.... I work in 1/4 inch but I will be placing a order from Ron for another Chuck in 1/4 inch and a EXTRA 1/2 inch lower Chuck. That gives me the most Versatility in my 4 machines having a 1/2 inch chuck IF needed...

I dismissed the other aftermarket chuck to go on the QC Chuck as it was only offered in 1/2 inch and didn't want to be bothered with sleeves. Ron GOT IT RIGHT...

GOOD JOB RON !!!! Give yourself a PAT ON THE BACK !!!!

AL

[SteveEJ]

Al speaks the truth. Not only did Ron develop an excellent product when it seemed no one was listening, he also reduced my problems by a GREAT margin. I can't judge the CT to the Rock as I have not seen or used the CT. I am in no rush to fix something that is not broken! Great work Ron..

[Digitalwoodshop]

I have no way of knowing except my my own usage... But Ron sure cut down on orders to LHR for Repair Parts.... My last order for Parts to LHR was in Jan 2009....

I don't have all my invoices scanned but here are 2.... 4 Board Sensors and 1 X Termination Boards... I know I have order more than 3 X Term Board and look at all the Board Sensors.... $200.00 in Bit Holders.... I spent less on Router Bits...

Since Ron took all the Vibration out of the unit, it stopped all the C1 Cap Failures on the X Termination Board... I have at least 3 failures in my 4 machines.... Then there are all the Board Sensors and broken off LEDS.... And the L2 Coil Problems..... All QC Vibration related.... I need to be fair.... A NEW and in good Condition QC works PERFECT and more than likely has LITTLE Vibration.... IT is when the BB's started to Jack Hammer into the Bit Holders... The Bit Holder Flopped Around making the BB Marks DEEPER... And Jack Hammer the Sided of the QC and Bit Holder...

So what we did not know in the beginning is that once the BB Marks showed up in the Bit Holder that just changing to a new Bit Holder did NOT END the problem as the QC was DAMAGED when the Bit Holder was FLOPPING AROUND... Many like ME just changed the Bit Holders and wondered WHY after just ONE PROJECT the new Bit Holder had BB Marks.... We all went on line and complained.... Hundreds of complaints....

Then over time it was discovered that if at the FIRST SIGN of BB Marks you changed EVERY BIT HOLDER AND THE QC to a NEW ONE... That the time between getting BB Marks was MUCH LONGER and Some that were doing that were posting about the LONG LIFE OF THE QC and the Battle Lines were Drawn....

So when it was posted that you needed to replace everything things got BETTER..... But my LHR Repair Bills WENT UP....

Then with little fanfare a Mysterious Machine Shop Door opened from Heaven and a Machinist calling himself Ron Justice stood before us like the Biblical shots in the Movies of the 10 Commandments being presented... And he Held out the "ROCK CHUCK".....

Remember that Spoof Mel Brooks Movie of the 80's when the guy walked down the mountain with 15 Commandments on 3 Stone Tablets.... One fell and broke... He shook his head and said 10 Commandments..... LOL.... sorry to offend anyone.... Found the Crack for my Crack Pipe.... LOL....

SO THANK YOU RON... NO REPAIR PARTS since JAN 2009..... For Saving me money.

And to be Fair to LHR... Being a FRUGAL WOODWORKER... I most likely waited to change my Bit Holders and QC and let it Vibrate NOT KNOWING the Damage I was Doing....

IF a Cut and DRY instruction was issued....


"Once you see BB Marks on the Bit Holders, the QC and BIT is Vibrating at 10K (?) RPM's and doing SEVERE Damage to your machine and the QC and ALL Bit Holders MUST BE REPLACED NOW."


That would have 1. Prevented unnecessary Vibration Damage to the Machine. and 2. Probably Killed LHR....

Don't Worry.... BE HAPPY for the ROCK CHUCK and Carve Tite...

AL

Then they started to charge for Tech service... RON.... SEEEE.... what you did.... LOL.... Keeping the Lights on at LHR.

[hess]

Well all 2 are up and on with Rocks!!!!

I do want to thank the new mos Lynn.. you have brought a refreshing attitude to the site that has been long overdue.

[lynnfrwd]

Thank you Hess....but don't think I'm not watching you very, very closely!!! WINK WINK! I'll bet more than one school teacher, put you in the desk near the front of the room, so she could keep her eye on you!!!

Hey, you coming southeast to Houston in May?

[Capt Bruce]

Thank you Hess....but don't think I'm not watching you very, very closely!!! WINK WINK! I'll bet more than one school teacher, put you in the desk near the front of the room, so she could keep her eye on you!!!

Sounds like that comes from first-hand experience LynnFrwd . . .

Curious minds would like to know if you used to assign us to those front seats, or if you were right up there among all us Class Clowns. You know, the fun part of the room. Kind of like the Forum.

[lynnfrwd]

Hmmmm...guess I walked into that one.

I was always a good girl in school, wishing I could be in the clown group. I knew, if I got in trouble at school or the teacher called home, I had my parents wrath to deal with and that was far worse. I come from the scared straight generation of kids and did my mischief after I was out of mom and dads house.

But, I have been on the teacher side and had to keep my eyes on many a problem child!!! I was a teacher's assistant at the high school level for the Behavioral Adjustment Class and Special Education classes. I also was a Licensed Mental Health Technician for ages 8 to 16 at Topeka State Hospital many years ago. Not to mention raising 4 kids (first three were boys) of my own....mischievous, as well, but they turned out alright!

[atauer]

I was also in the scared straight generation lynn...

Was not aware that you had done all that other stuff as well. That explains why you are such a people person.

[Capt Bruce]

Thanks for that background Connie,

"But, I have been on the teacher side and had to keep my eyes on many a problem child!!! I was a teacher's assistant at the high school level for the Behavioral Adjustment Class and Special Education classes. I also was a Licensed Mental Health Technician for ages 8 to 16 at Topeka State Hospital many years ago. Not to mention raising 4 kids (first three were boys) of my own....mischievous, as well, but they turned out alright!"

Sounds like perfect background of training and practical experience to then be thrown right into trying to keep us all in-line while on-line. We really do enjoy both the current LHR knowledge you bring to the discussions as well as your good sense of humor when dealing with our wise cracks. Rather like trying to herd cats, No? Who us?

My very, very patient wife Jean is a Psychologist for the Veterans Administration. I joke that it was very appropriate of the VA to assign me a full time Therapist after 30 years in the service and it helps me fit into civilian life much more smoothly. Really helping me get over that Dreams of Commandeur thing and just have some fun. Thanks again for all you and the other Staff bring to our Family here. See you in May!

[lynnfrwd]

Thanks! I look forward to meeting you too! It will also be great to finally put faces with these names....I can't wait!