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Capt Bruce
03-06-2011, 11:43 AM
Hi Folks,

I've been asked to help with carving a six foot long sign board with three symbols on each side. They are the Boy Scout, Girl Scout and Cub Scout emblems. I've done some searching here (no patterns found) and read up a bit on Forum postings on restrictions on the use of these designs.

I'd appreciate your thoughts on whether I can do this work for pay (machine hours only). If necessary how do I get the Scout Council to authorize the use of the emblems if they want this work done. And finally can anybody point me to good vector artwork of the current emblems?

42784
These are just quick internet posted graphics on a 6' x 14.5" board

Trying to decide whether to get involved or just walk away from this one. If I can determine these questions then I'll get into what would be the best outdoor wood to use (thinking cypress, redwood, cedar etc). Thanks in advance.

Ike
03-06-2011, 12:38 PM
Hi Folks,

I've been asked to help with carving a six foot long sign board with three symbols on each side. They are the Boy Scout, Girl Scout and Cub Scout emblems. I've done some searching here (no patterns found) and read up a bit on Forum postings on restrictions on the use of these designs.

I'd appreciate your thoughts on whether I can do this work for pay (machine hours only). If necessary how do I get the Scout Council to authorize the use of the emblems if they want this work done. And finally can anybody point me to good vector artwork of the current emblems?

42784
These are just quick internet posted graphics on a 6' x 14.5" board

Trying to decide whether to get involved or just walk away from this one. If I can determine these questions then I'll get into what would be the best outdoor wood to use (thinking cypress, redwood, cedar etc). Thanks in advance.



Capt Bruce I believe I can help you with both issues! Redwood, Cedar and Cypress are all great outdoor material! Matter of fact any material properly finished is good for outdoor use!

Myself I use redwood and I am blessed to be able to get reclaimed heart old growth redwood. I like redwood because heart redwood will not normally warp. However if the end grain is not sealed correctly it will split. I use grain sealer or the best is exterior glue slightly watered down to spread.

One thing when finishing redwood an exterior oil is best and never use an exterior clear gloss! Here is an article you might find interesting http://www.calredwood.org/Easy+Maintenance/Finish+Guides.htm. I do use a clear coat on my signs, but they are interior with UV protection redwood give such a rich color it can't be beat!

The closest is cedar, again heart wood is the best and it tends to split a bit more then redwood. Cypress is a very oily wood and I have noticed it warps very easily.

I would think the best is what is available to you!

As fourth to the logos I would definitely get in writing permission to use any images related to the Scouts and from the top and not just a scout leader!

Ike

Capt Bruce
03-06-2011, 03:00 PM
Thanks Ike,
I appreciate the sharing of your advice and good points. I'll settle the wood question if and when we can obtain the proper permissions for the carving of the emblems and the lay out they would like. It sure is nice to be able to mock-up quick renderings in Designer to give a potential client a 3D view in perspective without ever touching wood. Thanks again

quarrydesigns
03-07-2011, 12:15 PM
As a former employee with Boy Scouts of America, good luck with getting permission to use the images, that would have to come from the natinal office in Irving TX the link to get you started is

http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Licensing/Doing%20Business%20with%20Boy%20Scouts%20of%20Amer ica/Request%20and%20Download%20a%20License%20Applicati on.aspx

A word of caution BSA is VERY serious about its copyrights and will take action against any infringment it finds out about no matter how small or well intended.

Digitalwoodshop
03-07-2011, 12:33 PM
The Sawmill Creek Forum has bounced this BSA Copyright thing many times as it is pretty easy to laser something... The General Consensus is to walk away.... They want the Vendors of the BSA stuff to sell it to them....

And the BSA Copyright Police do get upset.... I am sure they have Search Bots looking as I type this....

Just Say No.... That is my Recommendation.... It will all fall heavy on your shoulders making the stuff.... There was a thread about how a engraver was spending hours and hours in court about Copyright on Sawmill Creek too a few years ago.... Sure puts a kink in your day....

And if you charge for your material or time.... That makes the Lawyers Lick there Chops.... Signs 101 had some BSA stuff too.... Same recommendation.... Don't....

Most times the people asking you to do the work don't have a clue how serious copyright stuff is... They will say anything to get you to do the job... "O' I have permission...."

Good Luck,

AL

cnsranch
03-07-2011, 03:55 PM
I was involved in Scouting from the adult side for about 15 years - Scoutmaster, Committee Chair, Fundraising - never thought about the licensing end of the program. AW's right - BSA is pretty serious about protecting their trademarks.

I went to BSA's website to see if there was a way for you to do this - seems to me that since we were always making signs and flags, etc. for the respective Dens and Patrols, our own Pack and Troop, there wouldn't be a problem if you went so far as to make the sign, and GAVE it to the Troop.

Look at the quote I found below - apparently I was wrong:


Q: If a Scoutmaster asked a mom to embroider the scout sign on jackets for his troop, would she need a license?
A: All reproduction of BSA Trademarks, where the product is for sale or potentially resale, would require a license. However, there is a procedure for waiving the royalty requirement when the product or service is donated to the council or unit or used for the commemorative purpose and no fees are charged. Yet, in these cases, we grant a one-time use license and track the use. There is a wavier form (http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Licensing/Doing%20Business%20with%20Boy%20Scouts%20of%20Amer ica/Royalty%20Waiver%20Form.aspx) for this purpose.

Here's the link for the waiver:

http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Licensing/Doing%20Business%20with%20Boy%20Scouts%20of%20Amer ica/Royalty%20Waiver%20Form.aspx

All that said, I can guarantee you that 100's if not 1,000's of violations happen each year.

atauer
03-07-2011, 04:33 PM
As an active Scouting member (son is currently working on his Bear badge in CubsScouts), what everyone has said so far has been true. Personally, I have not yet tried to do anything on the CW that is scouting related, as I really do not want to go through the hassle of paperwork. So, whenever someone asks me for a piece that I know can potentially cause an issue, my answer is flat out "No". Sure, it may agitate them a bit, but I am not about to risk myself for a quick project for them.

We are having a pack meeting this Thursday and there is supposedly going to be a high ranking person from the BSA there, so I may ask a few questions to find out what can/can't be done.

CarverJerry
03-07-2011, 08:41 PM
Capt Bruce, why don't you just do it for a donation........

CJ

Capt Bruce
03-07-2011, 09:40 PM
Thank you all for the wise advice you've provided. It does sound like the wise course here is just to stay away from this project except as a donation. You grow old and wise as a warrior through learning to pick your battles. Thanks All.

racer
03-07-2011, 09:45 PM
Capt Bruce I just Gave this to a retiring scout master for 30 years service . last week he told they liked it so much it was going to be in there paper. I think a gift must be ok. Ps bought the pattern from CW store. Racer Hope the att works

Digitalwoodshop
03-07-2011, 09:55 PM
Since I make the Epoxy Dome Name Tags some Lady Friends belong to a RED HAT Group and wanted fancy Name Tags with Logo... I did the paperwork and more paperwork and more paperwork and more paperwork and samples.... It died in a long trail of paper... The event passed and they lost interest.... Asked on Krispy Kream Donuts too.... It was a big "NO"... So like Capt. Bruce, we learn to pick the battles we find worth the time.

A few years ago I went though the process of getting permission to make a copy of a Marine Boot Camp Picture used for HIS VFW Memorial. KIA... Could have just done it but getting the permission was important to me... The picture had a Copyright logo on the back. Sometimes it is just worth doing the right thing.

AL