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lilskip
02-22-2011, 10:13 PM
Ok i think this is where this question should be. What I am trying to do is make a flag case lid with a 1in wide frame. I main proble I guess is I am spoiled my Sketchup and miss the measure tools and such that I rely on to make things accurate. Basicly what I am doing in Designer is making my Triangle with a 23.75 base length. and 16.75 short sides. i figured I could copy the triangle and reduce it down a bit and put evern thing on center and I would be good, but it didn't work. I would like to know how to do this so I can make a basic lid to work from. AAAAAAHHHHHHH Designer is frustrating i feel so limited. Sorry about that had to get it out there before I go into a software bashing Rant. I have Photoshop, sketchup, Autocad, Paint, Coral Draw and Designer with Pattern Editor Addon. I have watched the Videos from Askbud and i can't find one that covers what I am trying to do. I'll hold my 2 sided carving question until I can make the the Font to work. Thanks for the help.

Ike
02-22-2011, 10:34 PM
First off it would help to see your mpc of what you are actually trying to do. As I mentioned before you can use sketch up and Corel draw and import it into the designer. First share the mpc and I bet we can help. You may want to invest in the DFX software?

Oh one other thing I reread your measurements and the maximum width you can make a project is 14.5" ( you can squeeze it to 15", but 14,5" is recommended) and the length is 8' recommended. Of course depending on the angle you may get the width you want? I am going to try, before putting my foot in my mouth! What is the height from the top to bottom?

Ike

keninar
02-22-2011, 11:33 PM
Triangle with stated dimensions should have a height of app 11.81 - well within the limitations.

lilskip - check your pm

-ken

lilskip
02-22-2011, 11:35 PM
Well her is as far as i got. I have started it its really nothing to it yet. It took me a while just to get the Triangle with the correct angles. i have made alot more of these Casket Flag Cases than i wish to have and I am just trying to dress up the front with a Carved Frame with at EGA suspended in the Center of the Frame. i know I could draw it and import it from Sketckup. But its a simple triangle frame that shouldn't be this hard to lay out much less have to spend an extra 199 to make two triangles and have them evenly spaced inside one another accurately. All I want is a measurement Tool in Designer. Once again I don't want to get into a Rant on the software that I haven't mastered yet. much less do it on here and make people angry. i will appreciate any Suggestions and And Tips...
Thanks
David

Digitalwoodshop
02-22-2011, 11:45 PM
I work in Corel and Designer. A Tip that may help you is if you need a dimension on the project, I make Electronic Rulers... Just a thin Rectangle made to what ever dimension you need. Then move it around the project making things line up. A Electronic Measuring Stick in Designer.....

Now the 2 Sided Question.... Something I do all the time to line up the backside of my Signs is just place a Drill Hole in the front at key places that when you flip the board act as a Refrence...


If you draw a shape and when you go to re size it, you get strange fly out of place stuff... I had trouble making my Plastic Tag Art with the rounded corners. When I changed sizes of the Box I would sometimes end up with Micky Mouse ears for the rounded corners.

I found that by making the rectangle with the rounded corners then make the object like my box or your triangle into a Carve Region. I then use Tools and Outline. Then I delete the carve region and first line drawing. I can now re size the outline with not shift in the corners.

If you don't have Centerline Text, it will help and getting Contour is GREAT too.... Well worth the Money.....

Watch out for Restraints.... Angles, lengths and more numbers that have changed to YELLOW locking a value... Right Click on them and remove the Restraint... Many have had strange results carving because a value was locked to the board edge or centerline and the board was bigger in reality and it caused shifts in objects.... And when you Flip the board... Same problem....

One more thing... I design every project as a place on End or Corner. Using Center causes the board to measure twice.... A Waste of Machine Servo Time...

I design in a 4 inch dead area on the right side of designer. This keeps the front of the board under the roller. A Board only being held by one roller will soon cost you $40.00 for a Cut Bit... As it binds and snaps when the board tips up.... I leave my project board long to cover the back roller...

Masking Tape... I use it all the time on the brass roller path.... Acts like a Rack and Pinion...

And if you cut Oak or Maple then a few strips on the bottom of the wood helps keep the board from slipping on the sand paper belts.... Yes... It has happened....

A lot more than you asked for but I needed to get in my Hourly Post.... LOL....

Good Luck,

AL

keninar
02-22-2011, 11:54 PM
Try this one and see if the dimensions will work.

lilskip
02-23-2011, 12:14 AM
Try this one and see if the dimensions will work.

Ok I think i see the Problem after looking at the one that Ken did we pretty much did the same thing but what I see the main difference is that Designer doesn't center Triangles worth a poo and I will have do some creative eyeballing and measureing. cause using the center both option is what is throwing it off.....Grrrrr Why can't i have a measurement tool. looks like i'll try the digital rectangle ruler mentioned by Al. Grrrrr Why can't i have a measurement tool....HAHAHA. Its just a software conflict(Me Conflicting with the Software).
Thanks Guys for the help.
David

keninar
02-23-2011, 12:21 AM
Yep - can't center both!
Keep and eye on the yellow length and green angle attributes (which are both user defineable) and things get a bit easier. (Especially when you know the dimensions and angles they are supposed to be!!

Good Luck! Looking forwrd to seeing the finished product.

-ken

CarverJerry
02-23-2011, 08:07 AM
Hey Al, you said... If you don't have Centerline Text, it will help and getting Contour is GREAT too.... Well worth the Money.....
what is Contour and what does it do? I love my Centerline Text and the comforming text add on, (just think it should have been already in with centerline text for what we had to pay for it)

CJ

TerryT
02-23-2011, 08:44 AM
I must be missing something here. Are you saying the layout grid isn't working for you?

Icutone2
02-23-2011, 11:13 AM
Yes Terry you can even set the grid spacing as needed.
Lee

TerryT
02-23-2011, 11:26 AM
Yes Terry you can even set the grid spacing as needed.
Lee

What????
I am aware of that. The question was, isn't it working to set measurements for his project?

Pratyeka
02-23-2011, 02:33 PM
Ok i think this is where this question should be. What I am trying to do is make a flag case lid with a 1in wide frame. I main proble I guess is I am spoiled my Sketchup and miss the measure tools and such that I rely on to make things accurate. Basicly what I am doing in Designer is making my Triangle with a 23.75 base length. and 16.75 short sides. i figured I could copy the triangle and reduce it down a bit and put evern thing on center and I would be good, but it didn't work. I would like to know how to do this so I can make a basic lid to work from. AAAAAAHHHHHHH Designer is frustrating i feel so limited. Sorry about that had to get it out there before I go into a software bashing Rant. I have Photoshop, sketchup, Autocad, Paint, Coral Draw and Designer with Pattern Editor Addon. I have watched the Videos from Askbud and i can't find one that covers what I am trying to do. I'll hold my 2 sided carving question until I can make the the Font to work. Thanks for the help.

try this: in photoshop, convert to .PNG with resolution at 128pix/inch. when you import into pattern editor, the dimension will stay the same as in Photoshop, i.e.: 1:1 scale. When placing the pattern on your project, uncheck the option that makes the pattern stretch to the board's width.

cnsranch
02-23-2011, 05:46 PM
lilskip

Here you go....

The two 45 degree reference lines are there for me just to make sure I was 1" wide.

Triangle is messing us all up - especially me, I flunked geometry.

With your length requirements, the angles aren't exactly 45 and 90 degrees - they can't be unless you lengthen the sides.

Good luck.

lilskip
02-23-2011, 06:40 PM
lilskip

Here you go....

The two 45 degree reference lines are there for me just to make sure I was 1" wide.

Triangle is messing us all up - especially me, I flunked geometry.

With your length requirements, the angles aren't exactly 45 and 90 degrees - they can't be unless you lengthen the sides.

Good luck.
Jerry,
I messed with it some more when I got home from work today. And I think the Eyeballing Digital ruler method in Designer with reference lines like you did is the way to go to give me the ability to adjust and modify as needed. As for the the angles not being Exact that is on purpose. After doing alot of Shadowbox frames I found that if you undercut the angles just slightly then you get a better fit on Glue up. Example 45degrees is cut at 44.5-44.9. This is real handing when doing the 22.5 degree cuts needed for a Casket flag case to get great exterior corners. Cause 22.5 degree cuts Suck haha....
Kelly
Thanks for the info about the .PNG import. that works alot more accuate than the JPEG format I was putting them in before. It will come in handy for INLAYS in the Future.

cnsranch
02-24-2011, 10:09 AM
All said, there are a couple of things for you to consider - (even though it's clear that you've made many of these)

cutting your top like we've designed can be done, but the integrity of the top is going to be sacrificed because of the cross-grain situation on the sides. An alternative is to carve the top in three pieces, and then glue them up as you would traditionally - the link below (although too lengthy) shows the results of a frame I did in 4 pieces.

also, using the 1/8" cutting bit to cut out the inner part will not give you as clean a cut as you might prefer - the radius of the bit is as sharp as it can go.

http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?15334-How-%28Not%29-to-Make-a-Picture-Frame

Capt Bruce
02-24-2011, 06:59 PM
Ok i think this is where this question should be. What I am trying to do is make a flag case lid with a 1in wide frame. I main proble I guess is I am spoiled my Sketchup and miss the measure tools and such that I rely on to make things accurate. Basicly what I am doing in Designer is making my Triangle with a 23.75 base length. and 16.75 short sides.

Hi Lilskip,
I'm coming into this a bit late after all the design and layout discussion but I wanted to go back to your basic request. I've also made a number of flag cases over the years using primarily conventional power tools and standard glue-ups from straight mitered-end pieces. I'm trying to understand your desire in using the CarveWright to cut a one piece case front. Is it to be able to add carvings on those three sides all at once.

My first reaction quite honestly was that a lot of valuable wood was going to be wasted around and inside the cut out frame. Also that as noted by our more CW knowledgeable colleagues above the sides would be weak due to cross grain. Just my Scottish heritage showing through here and a love of fine woods.

I guess my suggested plan would have the three sides laid out parallel on the length of the wood with nothing more than a saw blade rip width + sanding allowance between them. On the width of board you were going to use that would allow for the harvest of three sets of frame parts from the same board and desired engraving could be added to any or all of those 1" pieces all as one project.

May not be what you were seeking with your design but just a suggestion. Also if you need the tight miter joints you mentioned these could be fine tuned with a shooting block and sharp low bevel handplane after basic miters were all cut on the table saw. Hope this might add something to the discussion.

lilskip
02-24-2011, 08:09 PM
Hi Lilskip,
I'm coming into this a bit late after all the design and layout discussion but I wanted to go back to your basic request. I've also made a number of flag cases over the years using primarily conventional power tools and standard glue-ups from straight mitered-end pieces. I'm trying to understand your desire in using the CarveWright to cut a one piece case front. Is it to be able to add carvings on those three sides all at once.

My first reaction quite honestly was that a lot of valuable wood was going to be wasted around and inside the cut out frame. Also that as noted by our more CW knowledgeable colleagues above the sides would be weak due to cross grain. Just my Scottish heritage showing through here and a love of fine woods.

I guess my suggested plan would have the three sides laid out parallel on the length of the wood with nothing more than a saw blade rip width + sanding allowance between them. On the width of board you were going to use that would allow for the harvest of three sets of frame parts from the same board and desired engraving could be added to any or all of those 1" pieces all as one project.

May not be what you were seeking with your design but just a suggestion. Also if you need the tight miter joints you mentioned these could be fine tuned with a shooting block and sharp low bevel handplane after basic miters were all cut on the table saw. Hope this might add something to the discussion.

i agree with what your saying about the wasted wood, I don't like to waste wood either. my main goal is to make a flip top front on my flag case with a carving in the center over the glass. What I don't want to do is have to glue the carving in the center I kinda want a floating effect with hardly noticable support taps that hold it in place over the glass. i would like to do this with a 3 sided frame I am just trying to work out the logistics of how to get a conistant cut by making a 4 piece front that will fit together right. Designer hasn't won me over yet with the accuracy part yet. i have been watching the ASK BUD videos to pick up the tricks and get the tool usage and options yet so I'll have a hands tied feeling until I learn it all. But i'll get there Everyone here is being really understanding and helpfull to my rookie issues haha. The file below has the general look I want as a finally out come but things like the slight notch it puts into the sides from the TAPs coming off the EGA I don't like. I also was trying to lay it out into indiviual peices to get the TAP placement to cut Datos on the underside for the taps to slide into. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Once I figure out Designer alittle more I will finally start playing with my Scan Probe which I am sure will create its own questions, But that can wait till I figure out triangles haha

cnsranch
02-25-2011, 11:13 AM
We may be getting somewhere - take a look at this -

Designer won't let you make a pattern out of connected lines, etc. Not sure why, just won't.

Using another program, you can make a shape, copy it, bring it into Designer, and then make it a pattern.

I did a real quick and dirty pattern of your triangle-shaped front in Publisher, and then made it a pattern (note that the dimensions aren't to your spec - was done quickly to test).

After that's a pattern, you can add it to your virtual board, add the Marine Logo to it, and then merge the two patterns so you get what I think you're really looking for.

Play with the attached, and see if it helps.

atauer
02-25-2011, 11:38 AM
That is not 100% true Jerry.

The software will let you make a pattern out of connected lines, but you will need to apply a carve region to the area created by the connected lines. You can set the depth of the carve region to whatever you would like, including zero, and then use the make pattern tool. That is how I handle most of my awkward figures that I want set as a pattern.

cnsranch
02-25-2011, 12:58 PM
The software will let you make a pattern out of connected lines, but you will need to apply a carve region to the area created by the connected lines. You can set the depth of the carve region to whatever you would like, including zero, and then use the make pattern tool.

That's not in the manual anywhere......

lilskip - give that a go on your latest mpc - you'll get what I was working at with much less trouble.

mtylerfl
02-25-2011, 01:29 PM
That's not in the manual anywhere.....

Hi Jerry,

I mentioned the feature of creating patterns from carve region/shapes on page 6 of the Sept 2008 Tips & Tricks when it was introduced...but, I think you're right that it is not mentioned in the software manual (I looked, but couldn't find it anywhere).


ISSUE 12 September 2008 – Designer 1.131 New Feature Highlights (http://www.carvewright.com/downloads/tips/CarveWrightTips&Tricks_Sept08.pdf)

cnsranch
02-25-2011, 02:23 PM
Hi Jerry,

I mentioned the feature of creating patterns from carve region/shapes on page 6 of the Sept 2008 Tips & Tricks when it was introduced...but, I think you're right that it is not mentioned in the software manual (I looked, but couldn't find it anywhere).


ISSUE 12 September 2008 Designer 1.131 New Feature Highlights (http://www.carvewright.com/downloads/tips/CarveWrightTips&Tricks_Sept08.pdf)

I'm sure you know, but just to make sure....I was firmly yanking Alex's chain with that comment.

atauer
02-25-2011, 02:29 PM
Yes, I know....

The software manual needs updated. It's a work in progress.

mtylerfl
02-25-2011, 03:41 PM
I'm sure you know, but just to make sure....I was firmly yanking Alex's chain with that comment.

I am too gullible to have caught that!

Hey - I wonder how DID Alex get that title "atauer"? Does it have anything to do with the cute Boxing Kitty?

atauer
02-25-2011, 03:55 PM
Nope.

The little kitty boxing shows that even though something may look soft and cuddly, it can have an ugly side to it as well. Kinda like poking a sleeping bear....

As far as the name, I'll let you wonder what it means.

mtylerfl
02-25-2011, 04:02 PM
As far as the name, I'll let you wonder what it means.

I'm gonna call your wife and ask her....