Can't mamually move Y truck. [Archive] - CarveWright Users' Forum

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cestout

02-09-2011, 07:07 PM

My machine is running fine and has 322 hrs on the cut motor (guess I will be needing new brushes from what I hear here.) I can no longer manually move the Y truck. When I is parked in the corner after a carve, I can no longer move it to the center to clean and/or lube. If I "Measure" a board to move it to the center, I can not move it from there. What could have caused this change? Power on or off makes no difference.
Thanks
Clint

AskBud

02-09-2011, 08:10 PM

mtylerfl

02-09-2011, 09:42 PM

One of mine just started the same thing (even if it's unplugged).
AskBud

Hi Guys,

Our friend AL-Who will have the answer!

Might be dirty/stuck/worn bearings, worn gears, etc. Try a search on the forum - I know AL has covered Y-truck mechanical issues pretty thoroughly and could help both of you in diagnosing the problem and finding the cure.

AskBud

02-09-2011, 09:44 PM

Hi Guys,

Our friend AL-Who will have the answer!

Might be dirty/stuck/worn bearings, worn gears, etc. Try a search on the forum - I know AL has covered Y-truck mechanical issues pretty thoroughly and could help both of you in diagnosing the problem and finding the cure.
It does not hamper the carving process! It just locks when the carving is complete.
AskBud

mtylerfl

02-09-2011, 09:50 PM

It does not hamper the carving process! It just locks when the carving is complete.
AskBud

Now that is strange! I bet AL-Who will still have an answer (or at least an educated guess!). He's either in the shop or in bed by now - my money says he's in the shop, but not paying attention to his computer right now!

dbfletcher

02-09-2011, 09:59 PM

Mine did that two nights ago. After the carve was done powered off.. waited 30 seconds or so.. truck would not budge.. waited a bit more.. same thing.... next day everything was moving freely again!?!?! I hope it isnt gremlins again... they are so hard to get rid of once you get them.

liquidguitars

02-09-2011, 10:13 PM

I lost a violin top today but it's a hardware issue.. I keep a backup of truck bearing in stock as well as a set z truck roller rods . After having a issue today I pulled the truck and found that in fact I had 4 sticky bearings.

What I do is to remove the z truck or z truck base depending if it's y or z error , spray wD40 on the bearing at the same time rotate them by hand until free. A blast of air helps.. This is also good time to replace the z truck rods as their not expesive but do tend to get chattered up after 300 to 400 hrs. Once finished you see a inprovment in quality.

Capt Bruce

02-09-2011, 10:31 PM

Mine did that two nights ago. .... next day everything was moving freely again!?!?! I hope it isnt gremlins again... they are so hard to get rid of once you get them.

Remember that they warned us DB not to spill any water in the machine . . .

liquidguitars

02-09-2011, 10:47 PM

Oh one quick tip I was able to come across is in LHR's design. You also can remove the y rods on the castings and flip them to get a extra 400 hrs or more ware and tear if needed.
I going to ask LHR is a can get a replacement soon. once again you will see better results if worn.

Capt. only after midnight right?

AskBud

02-09-2011, 10:51 PM

OK, I have two machines so I compared.
It's not a bearing problem for me. The y-Motor Mount Assembly (part # 49 on page #4) that seems to be frozen.
I see the belt trying to move but the gear does not move freely, like it does on my other machine.
Again, I say it does not hamper the carving or scan process as I can do both well.
AskBud

liquidguitars

02-09-2011, 11:08 PM

ODD. I looked at part 49 "the y pack" unless the motor is bad its the bearings. I know I replace or rebuild them around 200 hrs or so. The only way to be sure is to remove part 135 and test each bearing manually turning them unloaded. I think when checking for the bit in y the amount of torque is less then when carving so you see the sticky bearing issue then. The last firmware build seems stronger when locating the bit flag. Objects in motion tend to stay in motion.

I know that Bud thinks it's the Y motor and very well could be in his case " bad bearing in the y pack? but since the unit works in scan and ever carves well I would tend to look a the bearings at startup or even a simple adjustment " looking at your bearings will give you a better idea what's wrong"

Digitalwoodshop

02-09-2011, 11:54 PM

Now that is strange! I bet AL-Who will still have an answer (or at least an educated guess!). He's either in the shop or in bed by now - my money says he's in the shop, but not paying attention to his computer right now!

Ding Ding Ding.... We have a WINNER...... Yes, I am in the shop.... :roll::grin::twisted:

Have been busy making sample tags for a North Dakota Fire Dept for of all things... A Sealed BID.... About a $1K order so it is worth the effort.... The samples need to be Exactly like the finished product... Got some pictures and Logo's and it looks GREAT..... The Second part of that project was my first attempt at printing on Glow in Dark Material.... That part went well.... Did Epoxy Done on one side and the tags really glowed in the curing oven... Flipped the tags over to put Epoxy on the second side and found that it was DARK.... The Glow material I have has a white layer on the back.... So it will never glow.... DA !!!!

So I have been scrambling with Glow Vinyl, and some other samples I have in the shop...... Might have something that will work both sides... Plus I have more samples on the way from my Suppliers...

So I was getting ready to QUIT at Midnight Thirty.... And I see this.... You guys know me.... Always a answer even if it is wrong....

So back to the Y Motor and Axis..... My first instinct is that one of more of the ROLLER on the Rail bearings has frozen up.... I have one machine here I need to replace or re lubricate the Y Bearings... All 4 are frozen.... Marking the bearings with a black marker and watch for rotation sometimes helps. Part of the reason why the machine will Pull the Y Truck even WITH frozen bearings is that the drive belt pulls the head.... IF you try to move it, you tend to press down and move it... A Stuck bearing would offer more resistance... Another thing is the Y Gear Box Bearings.... When worn, they let the big plastic gear RUB part of the machine frame that the motor is mounted to... The U Shaped area that the big plastic gear sits in... That can account for the motor moving the head fine but when you pull or push the Y head, you are pulling the top of the belt that is pulling the big plastic gear toward the center of the machine.... So if you get that, I would be replacing the Y Gear Box 2 Bearings.... I was happy with the difference it made when I replaced my last set. Then there are the Rails and especially the BOTTOM Rail.... I keep a Brass Wire Brush at the machine and form time to time run it on the bottom rail... More for the SIDES or Flat Spots on each side of the drill rod... I have sawdust build up on the sides and be packed down by the flat sides of the bearngs... Clean the rails......

Now for the Motor..... With Power Applied, I have found that the Servo is normally getting a holding voltage from the computer to hold it in position. When we do the Bit Change, normally it is very hard to push the Y but the Z is very easy... It may be programmed to hold the Y but let the Z Move freely for changing the bit. When you turn the power OFF there would be a period of time that the power supply still has enough power as it fades down to hold the Y Motor.... Over time it gets less.... So why, one time it moves easy and another not so easy... I think it is more about what was the last powered instruction to the Y Motor...? If it was just told to go to HOME at the Keypad area and stay... Then with the power on it would be hard to move... Power down and as the power supply fades you will be at some point be able to move it..... Now lets say you walk up to the machine and turn the power on..... I believe the machine will home itself, Z up and down... bumping into the upper mechanical stop... Then the Y, moving away from the left side the moving back and bumping into the left side mechanical stop.... I have not tried it, but I would bet it would be locked in home... and hard to move.... Turn the power off and it would be able to move as the power fades.....

Now there are combinations of things..... Honestly that I have never tried but just though of... Opening the cover must not have anything to do with power to the servos... But what would happen after the machine did a home and you pressed STOP.... Could you now move the Y easier with power applied.... OK.... That was the Epoxy Fumes talking......

So bottom line.... I think a disassembly of the Y Belt and Motor is in order..... With the belt off... Move the Y Truck looking for the bad bearing... and sawdust on the lower rail.....

Let us know....

AL

My time Zone is off... It's 1 AM... Not 6 AM....

cestout

02-10-2011, 07:05 PM

Like AskBud, I don't think it is the Y truck bearings because if I try to move it the belt bunches indicating the motor/servos or whatever are not moving. I will. however try the mark the bearings trick - mark them and measure a board. I don't think it is the rails because it happens in the middle as well as parked. And, like AskBud, my machine carves just fine - no errors. Does LHR have a detailed PDF breakdown of the Y drive? And how do you get the Y truck away from the machine since the belt is trapped? The Z truck is easy because the belt easily comes free.
thanks Clint

dbfletcher

02-10-2011, 07:10 PM

cestout

02-10-2011, 07:35 PM

Thanks Doug, that is what I needed.
Clint

Digitalwoodshop

02-10-2011, 07:39 PM

I did break a screw when I removed my first Y Truck.... And as you will find the spring screw for the Y is hidden behind the outside cover.

Good Luck,

AL

cestout

02-11-2011, 06:25 PM

Unlike some of you, I only have one machine. I can't afford the down time right now and it is carving OK, so I will have to Wait a week or so to tare the machine apart. BTW, on the marking toe rollers and moving the truck test, the rollers seem to move OK. It's gotta be the motor/servo or what ever it is (I will find out soon).
Thanks for the input.
Clint

Digitalwoodshop

02-11-2011, 06:35 PM

Then the best thing to do is to order a Y Motor.... If you can't afford the down time.... It is looking like it is going to be the Y...

Have you ever replaced the inner Y Gear Box Bearing? Does the machine CLICK at the bit plate? Clicking is a dead giveaway to bad Y gear box bearings. Over 450 Cut Motor Hours I would replace the 2 bearngs.... I bought a tube of 10 bearings for about $30.00 with shipping.

If you wait until 700 cut motor hours then you get a thin shaft like picture 1 when the bearings freeze up...

Here is the May 2010 Bearing Post that has the part numbers.

================================================== ==============

http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/5mm/kit768 (http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/5mm/kit768)

There is another source on that post too for the same thing.

I believe that putting the Y Bearings on a 500 Cut Motor Change out will help many users let the machine live longer. They are easy to change and I did NOT need a bearing press to remove and replace them playing around with the Gear Box.

Considering the cost of a New Y Motor with Gear Box is about $80.00 throwing in a new set of bearings for less than 10 bucks makes it a good investment.

To buy LOCAL use the following Cross Reference Numbers for the 5 mm x 11 mm x 5 mm with metal shield.

NSK Brand - 685ZZ

KOYO Brand - W685ZZ

NMB Brand - L-1150ZZ

Once the shaft is worn thin replacing the bearings will still let the shaft wobble.

AL

TerryT

02-11-2011, 07:02 PM

This is just a guess but.... If the machine carves ok but you cant move the truck with power off, I'm thinking it is the bearings on the shaft of the BIG gear of the ymotor. Try this.. try to move the truck by turning the y motor gear by hand if it moves but you still cant move by moving the truck it has to be the shaft bearings on the big gear. Moving the truck by hand puts a different angular stress on the gear and may be causing it to bind. I think!?

Sorry, I see that is what Al already said.

cestout

02-11-2011, 08:16 PM

I had a big long thing typed in and the lights went out. I'll see if I can remember. I was looking at the PDFs on the Y truck and they don't give details on how to disassemble and reassemble the parts once you remove them. I suppose, being a mechanical person I can figure it out, but is there any documentation on this, and on replacing the cut motor bearings? I figure while it is apart I will fix all that needs fixing. And are there other sources for the brushes to save the $12 shipping from LHR? I don't know what you mean by clicking at the bit plate, but this machine and my 2 previous Sears machines slapped the bit plate back twice. I can not see how to get at the "big gear" to try turning it; it is encased.
Gotta go cook dinner,
Thanks
Clint

bjbethke

02-11-2011, 08:20 PM

Have you tried to loosen and remove the Y belt from the Y motor gear, If the truck still will not move then you have a problem in the Y/Z truck assembly, most likely the bearings, could also be some thing came loose in back of the Z truck, maybe a screw came loose. If you never had that assembly apart it may need a good cleaning. There is a PDF to do that.
If that assembly moves then it has to be in the Y motor assembly, you should be able to rotate the gear easy. There is a PDF that shows how to do that.
I modified my machine to make it easer to work on. The CW unit sure is not a Plug in, play unit.

I'll post a photo of my MOD, my computer crashed and now I need to look for it.

TerryT

02-11-2011, 08:37 PM

I can not see how to get at the "big gear" to try turning it; it is encased.
Gotta go cook dinner,
Thanks
Clint

Turn the end of it where the belt hooks to the smaller gear on the end.

Digitalwoodshop

02-12-2011, 01:05 AM

Not sure if you need to replace the Cut Motor Bearings, I have close to 1K hours on 2 of my machines and the Cut Motor Bearings are fine... The Brushes can be found outside of LHR but I did not find them yet. If you find them post a link and pictures and the dimensions. The Copper Tether is important to keep the metal spring from reaching the Commutator and causing damage.

From the pictures I post here of the Cut Motor Armature, You can see the worn copper commutator with 4 brush replacements. Soon it will be too thin to work with the spacers between the copper strips. Another member posted about using a hack saw blade to cut the spacers in a bigger motor.... Once the spacers start hitting the brushes the sparks will be bigger and you would know the Cut Motor is soon to become a paper weight... So the Bearings will last longer than the Commutator.... I was trained to Cut Commutators on Big Motors in the Navy. Especially the Amplydine Motors used to move the big metal gun director. I was trained on the 1950's MK 68 Gun Fire Control System. Upgraded over the years, my last system went to the Gulf on a Destroyer just before the first Gulf War in 90. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_gun_fire-control_system I started out in Analog Computers in 1976 and ended in Micro Processors in 1995.

Back to the Y Motor.... If you install it back into the U Shaped area, make sure it is centered.... In fact.... LOOK at the big plastic gear between the belt and the motor and see if the big plastic gear is rubbing on the frame like a brake.....?

Pulling the Truck and making the rubbing of the gear on the U shaped area could be the key here.... While the Y motor is turning under power it is centered... PULL on the belt and truck and you cause the bindng....

And the Clicking.... Every time I had Clicking at the Bit Plate... 2 or 3 clicks... That was when I had worn Y Gear Box....

In my opinion, with the cost of the Cut Motor, I would not gamble that I got the brushes right.... LHR is the only option for me... I always Combine Shipping..... The last Part Order for me was over 2 years ago and it was $700.00 in parts.... Not everyone wants to stock parts.... I depend on my machines.... I cut a Oval Sign today and 2 handles for Accountability Boards.... Yesterday 3 other handles... All bringing in money for me....

Well it's 2 AM... The Tags are done in the UV Oven.... Need to ship tomorrow.... I mean today.... Saturday....

Good Luck,

AL

See the date on the Pictures....
#1 2011.... Very WORN.... 4th Brush Change
#3 2007 FIRST Brush Change
#4 2010 3rd Brush Change
#5 2007..... Like a VIRGIN.......

cestout

02-12-2011, 04:20 PM

Thanks for all the info AL. My carving is intended to be a sustainable hobby, and so far (after 3 years) I am $600 away from going into the black, so I can't afford to invest a lot in spare parts (and my wife won't let me). But I have to agree with you about getting the brushes from LHR. A while back a couple bearings on my Z truck froze so I ordered new ones, but while waiting for them to arrive I managed to get the old ones freed-up and they run slick as snot, so I have the new ones as spare. I will call Monday to order the brushes, a couple spare Y truck bearings and the bearings for the Y motor gear. I have to carve a box for my grandson to give his girlfriend for her birthday )is has horses running around it to the right with my dairy barn and rail fence and some trees and will have a FFA logo de-coo paged on the plain casket domed {see the more elegant box} top.) I can't dismantle the machine until that is finished.
Clint

Digitalwoodshop

02-12-2011, 07:03 PM

Good Luck with your project.

AL

cestout

02-13-2011, 02:38 PM

I guess the project will have to wait. The machine was jerky going to the bit plate, then I was told to check the Y belt. I removed the Y motor. The Y truck moves slick a snot and the big gear was wobbly. The inside bearing disassembled as I was trying to remove it but the back bearing came out intact. Bad news is the inside end of the gear shaft is worn, so just new bearings won't fix it. I will have to see if LHR will sell only the gear box, or the gear and bearings. I guess I will start working on the tutorial for my next project submission, a treasure chest with an optional 5/4 top - stands 3/4" above the box. Thank you all for the help. I will let you know what happens next. BTW, AskBud, what is happening with your failing machine?
Clint

AskBud

02-13-2011, 03:09 PM

Digitalwoodshop

02-13-2011, 03:47 PM

Clint,

How many Cut Motor Hours.... Guessing between 700 and 800....

AL

cestout

02-13-2011, 09:24 PM

322, but this is a referb from LHR. Does the Z motor gear use the same bearings? They probably should be replaced also. I applied some JB Weld to the shaft. When it cures I will chuck it in my Drill press or wood lathe and sand it to fit the inner race from the old inner bearing. It fits over the shaft easily. The intact outer bearing is to snug to use as a gage. My local auto parts guy is good at getting stuff like bearings. An old car restorer hired me to make upholstery tack strips for a 1940 Garham. He comes from Hemet here to the hinterlands because Ken gets him the parts he needs. He picked up my card in the store. When/if he he pays me I will be able to afford a new Y motor, but I would like to fix this one. I am sure he will pay me because he will need me for future stuff like that, and people who can/will do it are hard to find. Oh, I looked at the top cut motor brush. Still some, but I will replace them. My grandson's girlfriend's birthday is the 16th. I guess the present will be late.
Clint

Digitalwoodshop

02-13-2011, 10:22 PM

Clint,

Yes, we think Alike... JB Weld... I thought of the same thing... And a Drill press and some fine sandpaper to polish it down to 5 mm or what ever it is... I posted the bearing numbers in this post yesterday, #18. You can get them local.

Yes the Z is the same... But I don't expect them to wear out... Very little stress on them....

Good Luck,

AL

cestout

02-14-2011, 02:23 PM

Al
Good news - it looks like the patch worked but I shouldn't need it. I called CarveWright (I like thier hold music) and ordered two sets of brushes at $5 each and the gear for $6. You don't have to buy the motor at $57 referb or #79 new. Then whent to Temecula, about 20 mi. south, and purchaced 4 bearings. When I got home I collected my e-mail and the LHR order was there and it listed "Y Drive Gear/Pulley Combination Assembly". Maybe I didn't need the bearings? The bearings were $6.25 each + tax = 27.19. I called the car restorer and he will be bringing my check by Wed. I live kind of off the beaten path, beyond the end of a dirt road. The noise from my tools doesn't bother my neighbors.
Thanks again - I will let you know when I am up and running.
Clint

Digitalwoodshop

02-14-2011, 05:12 PM

Clint,

Good News... I lived in San Diego 13 years in Vista/Oceanside. I have been to Temecula, most of the Sony employees lived there when I worked at the Rancho Bernardo Plant....

On my next order for parts I will get a few gears to fix the many gear boxes I have here..... I am in this for the Very Long Haul....

Needed another handle for a Accountability Board and set the machine to carving after heating the shop and an hour later I had the part...

This is a GREAT Machine.....

AL

AskBud

02-22-2011, 10:42 PM

OK,
My unit is back from Sears.
They have gone cryptic on their documentation. Their words revolve around the Motor Mount, mentioning replacing guides and Cable Assembly. I do, however, notice that the main gear and fins both seem to be new. No part numbers were listed.

I did a test carve and a test scan. Everything appears to be fine.
AskBud

liquidguitars

02-23-2011, 12:30 AM

That was fast.

Their words revolve around the Motor Mount, mentioning replacing guides and Cable Assembly.
how about a photo..

AskBud

02-23-2011, 01:57 AM

No picture. Nothing different in that sense.
The Motor Mount Assembly now has a black gear rather than the white it had when I sent it in, and the fins appear to be pristine.
I know they also replaced the black head cover, as mine had a small "heat dimple" from my warming lamp being too close one day. They also installed the Scan plug upside down, which I had to adjust.
AskBud

liquidguitars

02-23-2011, 10:57 AM

No picture. Nothing different in that sense.

Thanks , <smile>

I did a test carve and a test scan. Everything appears to be fine.

well I am assuming that it was it's hardware issue "bearings most likely" but without a photo or part numbers we do not have much resolution" and not software, however I am thinking that I will need to report the issue to software engineering as a slower speed in y bit check.

cestout

02-23-2011, 05:26 PM

Mine is up and running again too. $6 just bought the gear form LHR. I purchased the bearings locally. I also ordered cut-motor brushes. All installed, and with a few fits and starts it runs fine now. The sheet metal for the end plate didn't seat correctly at first causing the up-down to bind, and when I lifted the motor to install the brushes the Z motor cable came UN plugged causing a Z failure. I know what to watch in future. Also, when installing the end cover, one of the bolts would not tighten. Fount the bottom bolt was loose and the post was turning. I pulled the bottom off and tightened there of the four posts. I mention all this so others can benefit from my experiences. As I was putting everything back together, I noticed a hole in the Y gear cove right above the bearings. Does anyone know if that goes thru to the bearings? If so, a couple drops of 3in1 might prevent or postpone this problem in future. So ends this thread I guess. Thank you all for the help and encouragement.
Clint