Guitar Neck Carving

[BlueRocco]

I probed one of my guitar necks and I'm getting ready to carve it, but The file is enormous and it will take a day to carve. How do you change from the over and across with the carving bit to something more economic it time and energy. I'm thinking to just run up and down the length of the neck with a larger bit, but I've tried the pattern editor and it is not user friendly for doing your own design. I saw some necks here by someone and it had tabs round it and looked like they used the larger bit to do it. How do you do it?

[Woodhacker]

Get in touch with liquidguitars. He can help you with any questions you may have with carving guitars.

[geekviking]

And post the resulting answer for those of us you've gotten interested! :)
I'd like to apply it to the swords I carve...

[liquidguitars]

your setup should look something like this, then just flip the neck and carve the headstock undercut, tunner holes and rout the t rod using the 1/4 ball.







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DezYs_eZ9_4

[BlueRocco]

It looks like you are going across the neck the short way to carve the neck. I thought you would just run up and down the length of the neck to get the shape on the back. Doesn't this take a Looong time to cut? I have a ton of problems getting my carvewright to cut something this long. how do you deal with slippage on something this long? Are you using the new traction belts?

[liquidguitars]

I get 1:48:40 for the back of the neck carve and :22:00 for the top. if you do not have a CT or Rock forget about it.


here is the t rod video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z4fC5w5Yiw

[BlueRocco]

Please excuse My Ignorance, but what is a CT or a Rock?

I did check out your site, and your facebook. Looks like you are doing a LOT of Electric Violins and Mandos. Must be a bit of a market there. Great Work by the way. I love the design, looks almost aboriginal with the spiral .... hands might look good with that too.

I bought this silly machine a fews years back when business was good thinking to add to what I do with guitars, but so far it's just been frustrating to get it to accurately carve anything. When through the head adjustment stuff and finally got something to come out, but I still can't rely on it for anything too accurate.

I have gotten the design on the board in Designer. BUT what I would like to know is this. How did you get your dirst design into the designer program? I had to actually build my neck first. then make a sled and scan it to get it into the pattern editor. Mess with it there THEN import it to Designer. It seems like a round about way to use a cnc machine, but whatever works, hey?

[CarverJerry]

BlueRocco, the CT and Rock are the new type of tool holders or chucks. Actually the Rock was developed by Ron Justice to replace the Quick Change chuck that came on the CW and CCW. It is a much better chuck, a lot less vibrations and makes the machine a lot quieter too. And it doesn't hang up like the old QC's did. The Rock also uses it's own collets (tool holder). The CT is the lastest chuck that CarveWright came out with. It is an entire spindle with a chuck like the rock but is all one piece. I run a rock chuck, I love it and wouldn't trade it for anything, well that is unless I upgraded to a version C machine. Hope this answere your question about the rock and CT, and this is my 2¢ worth IMHO.

CarverJerry

[BlueRocco]

So which is quieter, the Rock or the CT? Does anyone own one of each that can answer this question?? I may have to get one or the other of them, as well as the heavy duty traction belts. The upgrades never seem to end do they??

[Ike]

So which is quieter, the Rock or the CT? Does anyone own one of each that can answer this question?? I may have to get one or the other of them, as well as the heavy duty traction belts. The upgrades never seem to end do they??

Blue I do! I have a CW with a Rock and a CW with the CT. I have to admit the Rock is quieter then the CT! Your choice is this with the Rock you only replace the chuck head. With the CT you need to remove the back plate and remove and replace the whole Z truck. Both ways need to be done correctly and the instructions followed to the letter! Otherwise you will have more trouble then you want!

Don't get me wrong I think both chucks are great! So I would read up on the installation of both chucks and go from there!

Ike

[BlueRocco]

Wow, Well. cost and support also come into question at this point. I just came from the Rock site (CW parts) and found $139.00 for the 1/2" setup and I have to tear my chuck apart and Now I'm not even sure how my probe will work with either one, BUT the big thing I think is Product support. If I go with the Rock I have to go to two different groups of people for support, and as I see it even the adapters cost a little more there. If I stay with the CT ($159) all the stuff I need is right here at Carvewright. of course if I want to cut frets I still have to figure out how to do the tiny bit adapting, but that seems to be the least of the things I need to think about right now since as far as I can tell the carvewright is not nearly accurate enough to rely on for my fret placement. I think I'll count on my hand work for that. Everything else I can do on the carvewright.

Still planning on getting those heavy duty track belts, maybe they will help with the accuracy, but I ain't holding my breath!

BlueRocco

[liquidguitars]

no one here really cares what chuck you use as long as it not the old one. < smiles>

regarding frets I have no issues at this time my CW cuts frets way better then my unisaw can due any day of the week but I just use the CW to scribe the lines and do the dots and or LP crown traps after radius the fingerboard.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D24sUIniGc8



http://liquidguitars.com/assets/images/ElectricViolinN5FR004.jpg

[liquidguitars]

Here is the CW cutting the crown pockets precisely for a OEM fit. It will aslo cut the inlays giving me snap fit, no joak. to be clear no one is forcing you to use the CW to make necks fingerboard and inlays.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLesXM9wh88&feature=player_embedded

[BlueRocco]

WOW! That looks a LOT easier that's for sure. So are you using the CT and the heavy duty traction belts? And do you use the CW parts cutter with the adapter to fit it? You make it look so easy! I guess I just need a lot more time with mine to see how to do what you do ..... .....

[liquidguitars]

My Machines are getting old and are showing major signs of a lot of use now. only one unit has the new" people mover" belts.

[BlueRocco]

Thanks for all your replies to my posts! You are doing all this with just a standard Machine?!

I just can't seem to figure out what is wrong with mine. I may just have to bite the bullet and pony up a bunch of cash to send the D*mn thing in and see if they can figure out what is wrong with it. I must have somehow gotten a lemon ....... I follow all the instructions. I've set it up a ton of times, the posts are darn near polished to a sheen with the lithium I've put on them, I've measured and it's square as square can be and it's clean enough to eat off of, still though ..... I think I've tracked it down to head pressure. I can't get it to be the same any two times in a row and it's always just shy of 75 lbs. Click, click,click,click!!

[liquidguitars]

I check the table pressure every time i load a project, setting the head pressure is a simple as loading your sled off center and lifting up on the sled until it feels tight with about 1/16" of play.
I own old stock machines with the exception of the chuck. One of my machines is not even connected to the side adjustment and just floats.

not to say that the table post are not a $#% pain.

[BlueRocco]

I do have pressure, but somehow it doesn't seem to be either enough or the same any three times in a row. I tighted the crank down till it clicks and sometimes even push down on it while cranking, but it starts clicking right away. I did ALL the maintainence stuff they tell you to do with the greasing the post and stuff, I've gon through that pdf they send you quite a few times, but my warenty is up and the darn thing has never worked right since I got it. All they want to do is sell me their time/incident charge or join their 150 a year club. I get better ideas here from you guys. Thanks, I appreciate the help!

[liquidguitars]

No offense to the first guy building this neck but I think it would be faster to use a Carvewright.

this is how not to do it..

a post off sawmillcreek,org

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?160749-experiment-on-machining-a-guitar-neck-(tele)

[BlueRocco]

You ARE Correct. Do you use the stl importing program for your designs? The reason I ask is that I use AutoCAD every day, and the design program included with the Carvewright seems a bit useless for actual 3D carving (not including relief carving and signs!) unless you have something like the stl importer for a regular 3D drafting program like AutoCAD or Solidworks. I've looked at the dxf importer and it seems more like something you would use to import flatwork, like lettering or simple "v" cuts. Can anyone reply on this? Am I correct in my assesment of the two programs?

[liquidguitars]

I not holding a gun to anyone head.. I have to say since I use Designer every day I would have to disagree with your statements, if you use Auto cad or Aspire, Designer would feel like a fat cat making muffins.

We use the STL importer from LHR it's one of the best you can own bar none. I just imported a LP neck for some future work and it is so fast.

It's simple to add drill out and t rod, drill for slugs and add fret locations, but everyone has their own way of working I guess.

[BlueRocco]

Wow, that's quite a staement! So the STL importer works pretty good?! I use AutoCAD everyday for 3D work and regular line work and people say it's hard to use, I can't see that because of what I can do with it. I have a hard time with paint in comparison. If you can do something in any other program, my time in AutoCAD will beat it. That said I guess it's all in what you are familiar with. It's good to know the STL importer works that well. It will be my next purchase. Right after those heavy duty belts. Then I guess the CT chuck will be next. I'll be blasting out guitars in no time. I can draft them up pretty quick in AutoCAD. The designer has so few commands in compairison, I just don't know what to use in it to get what I get in AutCAD so easily. It's the curved 3D shapes that I have a problem with in Designer, that and just trying to draw something. In AutoCad I just pick a point specify a relative distance and the line is there, to scale. I know you can do the same thing in designer, it's just a different process. I can't loft, extrude, or shape anything in Designer. In AutoCAD, it just takes me one or two commands and I have it done.

[liquidguitars]

So the STL importer works pretty good?!
yes.

Designer is a 2.5 D program like Aspire, Send me a real 3D STL via auto cad format and I load it for you then convert it to Designer....

[TIMCOSBY]

the slippage is usualy not the belts its the board not turning the brass roller on the keyboard side. boards must be planed dead flat and sometimes need 3m tape added to the underside on the keyboard side to stay in contact with the roller.

[BlueRocco]

Do you mean just masking tape? or something else? This has been a constant problem for me, I have planned evey board I put in and also ran them through my Prefomax sander to make sure they were flat, so this idea of putting tape on it has me thinking. I haven't tried it yet, so I'm game!

[BlueRocco]

yes.

Designer is a 2.5 D program like Aspire, Send me a real 3D STL via auto cad format and I load it for you then convert it to Designer....

Thanks, I'll do that. I'm working on another project right now, but I'll get back to you soon as I can, I'm really interested in seeing what it can do.

[fwharris]

Do you mean just masking tape? or something else? This has been a constant problem for me, I have planned evey board I put in and also ran them through my Prefomax sander to make sure they were flat, so this idea of putting tape on it has me thinking. I haven't tried it yet, so I'm game!


You must not have read very many of DigitalAl's posts then..(I bet he is frowning about now). Yes tape on the edge that rides on the brass roller will help with tracking issues..

[Capt Bruce]

Some times even sanding the bottom can work against you as the bottom surface almost becomes too smooth on hard woods and the brass wheel has less to grip against. Masking tape (or my preference blue painter's tape which peels off easier) is cheap insurance that the wheel always knows which inch of the board length it is tracking on. Tape is cheap - wood is not.

[liquidguitars]

Here are a few pics of guitars and sleds

http://liquidguitars.com/assets/images/sleadtapeR003.jpg




http://liquidguitars.com/assets/images/CNC_parts01.jpg


http://liquidguitars.com/assets/images/HeadScR002.jpg


http://liquidguitars.com/assets/images/LGGuitarsR0021.jpg

[liquidguitars]

One I made for LHR..

http://liquidguitars.com/assets/images/GuitarneckInlayR003.jpg



http://liquidguitars.com/assets/images/CWTopsR001a.jpg


Here is the top, at that time we where still using the QC!

http://liquidguitars.com/assets/images/FingerradR001.jpg


fingerboard using the 1/4"

[chebytrk]

All I can say is.............. DUDE !

[geekviking]

all i can say is.............. Dude !

seriously! Dude!

[liquidguitars]

Thanks guys,

Telecaster anyone?

http://liquidguitars.com/assets/images/TelehoR001.jpg


http://liquidguitars.com/assets/images/TellyhoR001.jpg


http://liquidguitars.com/assets/images/PickgR001.jpg

[chebytrk]

Definitely Coolamundo ! : )

[dbfletcher]

"Coolamundo"

You definately know you are an amazing craftsman when people run out of real words to describe your work so they are forced to start inventing new ones! Great work LG!

[geekviking]

You definately know you are an amazing craftsman when people run out of real words to describe your work so they are forced to start inventing new ones! Great work LG!

Absofarbly!