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Jonny
01-15-2011, 08:57 AM
Hello all,

This is my first post, though I've been an avid lurker here for over a year. I got my carvewright about 10 months ago and have about 100 hours logged making various projects, with quite a bit of success.

I'm a web developer by trade. I've watched the 'pattern depot' thread grow and grow, and also the recent idea/project of the pattern dvd. I downloaded it and checked it out. Please understand this: I do not mean to offend anyone with what I say here - I can appreciate all of the hours that went into it and all of the forum responses where you guide each other to patterns. There is a much, MUCH better way folks.

I'm doing my homework and will most likely be launching a website that will simply be a repository for all of the free patterns out there. Patterns will be searchable by keyword and tags, browsable by cagegory, you'll be able to rate and comment on patterns, etc. These are all common, standard, features for collections of anything. I can't believe people here have suffered with that gigantic thread for so long without revolting :)

Once the project is off the ground and running, I may ask for donations to help cover some of the up front costs (I'm not going to slouch here - I'll cough up cash to hire another developer with customizing the coding so that this thing works perfectly for us) or to help with the hosting and maintenance, and I'll probably beg for some volunteers to help sort the patterns and input the data for things, but this isn't a money venture for me. The site will be free - I'm just trying to make it so if you want, say, a pattern of an eagle, you can see all available screenshots and download what you want in a minute or two, not wade through tons of stuff and pull your hair out.

Maybe we can do something where people that carve professionally or sell other patterns can advertise on the site to cover the running costs - who knows... I'm just tossing ideas out there, but I'm gonna build a site for patterns even if it's all on me :)

I'd like this post to be the spot where everyone can weigh in and go over options, features, and suggestions for the site. I've got close to 15 years of full-time experience in the web development field and can hopefully create a single place for everyone to share and use all of the great free patterns out there!

Love to hear some feedback from you senior members! You guys have a great little community and I hope I can contribute to the success of everyone here.

-- Jack

fwharris
01-15-2011, 11:01 AM
Jack,

Welcome and surpised you have not posted before!

Sounds like a great idea and looking forward to seeing what you come up with...

TerryT
01-15-2011, 11:56 AM
Actually, I think that has already been done hasn't it? If I remember, Little red woodshop's site has them all listed, or did, as do a couple of others. One had to do with cows or farms or something. I don't recall exactly what that site is. This may have all changed I'm not sure since I don't use it. Since the list changes daily I wouldn't be surprised if it just became too much work to keep up.

Jonny, just to be clear, there are a couple of threads going that could be confusing. You are talking about the thread for the "Pattern Sharing Depot" which is the one with the talk of the cd, etc. Not the "Pattern Depot" on the Carvewright site, which are two completely different things, right?

Jonny
01-15-2011, 12:59 PM
Actually, I think that has already been done hasn't it? If I remember, Little red woodshop's site has them all listed, or did, as do a couple of others. One had to do with cows or farms or something. I don't recall exactly what that site is. This may have all changed I'm not sure since I don't use it. Since the list changes daily I wouldn't be surprised if it just became too much work to keep up.

Jonny, just to be clear, there are a couple of threads going that could be confusing. You are talking about the thread for the "Pattern Sharing Depot" which is the one with the talk of the cd, etc. Not the "Pattern Depot" on the Carvewright site, which are two completely different things, right?

Yup. There's the 6 page thread about the DVD, and the zillion page one with the free patterns. I was mostly talking about the giant one, but mentioned the DVD also because people were tossing ideas around.

I've seen a couple of places with static lists, but not a truly dynamic and interactive database. What I'm talking about is more of, well, think of it as a high quality photo gallery... You can browse and search by keyword, and also interact by rating patterns, leaving comments like "even carves good in poplar", etc., but the best part is the sortability. When I'm done, you will be able to say show me all birds EXCEPT eagles, show me the patterns that are the most popular, show me what's highest rated in the boats category, show me what's new this week, the possibilities are endless and instant, and you'll have high quality screenshot up front.

I remember a thread where someone wanted a background they had seen somewhere, and it was followed by a flurry of links with "is this it" type responses. Excellent help to be sure, but I bet the guy would rather have instant access to recall anything from a single source.

If anyone has any links to lists that they like or that have a particular feature, etc., please post it here. I've dug high and low but I may have missed something.

TerryT
01-15-2011, 01:15 PM
Cool, sounds good!

Old Salt
01-15-2011, 01:30 PM
Sounds Good
Best of luck to you

Gary

CarverJerry
01-15-2011, 02:03 PM
This all sounds great to me. The bottom line is if we can get a site to go to where it makes looking for a certain design easy, free and possible to leave feedback I believe we'd all use it. Lets all put our heads together, work together and come up with one good place to go to for our files. This also need to be able to upload files to also.
Thanks guys for your ideas, comments and good luck.

CarverJerry

Capt Bruce
01-15-2011, 03:01 PM
If the site can ultimately have those user friendly features outlined then I'd happily chip in toward maintenance costs. Thanks for offering to develop the concept.

bjbethke
01-15-2011, 03:37 PM
Yup. There's the 6 page thread about the DVD, and the zillion page one with the free patterns. I was mostly talking about the giant one, but mentioned the DVD also because people were tossing ideas around.

I've seen a couple of places with static lists, but not a truly dynamic and interactive database. What I'm talking about is more of, well, think of it as a high quality photo gallery... You can browse and search by keyword, and also interact by rating patterns, leaving comments like "even carves good in poplar", etc., but the best part is the sortability. When I'm done, you will be able to say show me all birds EXCEPT eagles, show me the patterns that are the most popular, show me what's highest rated in the boats category, show me what's new this week, the possibilities are endless and instant, and you'll have high quality screenshot up front.

I remember a thread where someone wanted a background they had seen somewhere, and it was followed by a flurry of links with "is this it" type responses. Excellent help to be sure, but I bet the guy would rather have instant access to recall anything from a single source.

If anyone has any links to lists that they like or that have a particular feature, etc., please post it here. I've dug high and low but I may have missed something.

I do not think these are free patterns, I have over 100 of theses posted on this Forum and now the DVD, and others have, they are gifts or Donations, and no one has the right to use these at will unless the owner gives them the right to use these things. I have a 700 image full pattern file. + DVD I send people for a gift or a donation for the DOD, I was in the AF and FAA most of my life, these are the images you can make carvings of for others. “I think Just because people help each other with a PTN, MPW. MPC or an image does not make it free. Some people give me donations for what I do.” You can look at all this if you use the paper clip and also if you want to download it as a PDF. The new DVD gave us a second look. Just great, But the old way was great for this old almost 73 year old man (May 25)


I have all my patterns on a CD, with Photo, PTN, PNC, PNW, and all other images to make my patterns, would like a $.50 donation for each. --- I own these images and patterns and images. I would take more or less. - PM me.

Jonny
01-16-2011, 10:42 AM
Here's what I've come up with so far folks:

I'm looking at a lot of open-source scripts for the job. I toyed with a few shopping carts because they have a lot of the search ability and display that we'd want, but in the end, it would be impossible to take away the 'shopping' feel of things and people might think they're being tricked into actually purchasing something. I looked at a lot of file management scripts, but none have the entire featureset that we'd want. I think I'm settling on a very popular photo gallery script. I can just tweak the source code to include the download feature for the pattern file, and we get great display options for the screenshots of the patterns. I think all of the other search/display/interactivity features I outlined above are already in place and work extremely well.

If all goes well, I will have something online in several days for people to look at.

As for BJB's concerns posted above, I know that there will be times when a pattern makes it onto the site that is somehow copyrighted or protected. Obviously there will be a way to contact me or a moderator about this to report files, and files that are found to be protected will be removed. This problem could be amplified by allowing any registered user to upload patterns. Maybe we'll have a submission feature where it has to be passed through a moderator or something. I do have some experience in Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) compliance, and we'll make sure we keep it legal. All I want to do here is help pass out the "shared" files that people post for anyone to use. Not the ones that someone makes and says they will pass to someone else for compensation - those are obviously protected.

After playing with this gallery script on a test site, I'm actually getting a bit excited. This may turn out to be easier than I originally thought.

Rocky
01-17-2011, 08:33 AM
Generally, I like the basic idea, and I would be willing to contribute to a quality site with good search capabilities. I would like to also suggest that the site provide for commenting on each pattern (quality, carving suggestions, etc.). Having both free and priced patterns would be good.

Ike
01-17-2011, 11:49 AM
Maybe I am missing something, but DFletcher has taken all the patterns and categorizes them and has them available on CD and download. I am thinking there are 2 roads leading to the same place? I suggest you get in contact with Doug he has put in so much work since he started over a week ago.

Ike

Jonny
01-17-2011, 12:23 PM
Here's a screenshot of what I have so far (ignore the big red squiggly line in the upper left, that's me hiding the site URL for now!). It's an open-source gallery script, heavily modified to show the screenshots of the patterns and allow users to download the matching pattern files. User registration for posting comments on individual patterns, keyword and tag searching, and category browsing is in there so far. A rating system may take a bit, but it'll be there eventually. Nice big 200 pixel wide thumbnail previews and 640 pixel wide detail images for each pattern will be included. The search system uses tags that are assigned to the individual pics, so as long as I tag everything appropriately, it'll work beautifully.

Nothing is in stone yet, but I doubt there will be an automated upload system. There's simply too much risk of people uploading commercial files and making me jump through DMCA hoops. There will be a way to submit files, but they will have to go through an approval process on this end to ensure accuracy and quality. I'm trying to avoid the wild-west aspect of "the paperclip" and make sure every single screenshot is the same format, size, tags are accurate, and the naming conventions are followed. I believe the final result will be a great end-user experience.

I'm going to try to hire my girlfriend's teenagers to help me with the screenshots and uploading things to get the site rolling.

41449

Old Salt
01-17-2011, 12:33 PM
Looks very good !
Will save us a lot of time looking for patterns.

Jonny
01-17-2011, 12:36 PM
Maybe I am missing something, but DFletcher has taken all the patterns and categorizes them and has them available on CD and download. I am thinking there are 2 roads leading to the same place? I suggest you get in contact with Doug he has put in so much work since he started over a week ago.
Ike

As I said before, I'm not trying to sound like I can't appreciate the work put into the CD, and all the other posts and lists available, but what I've started working on is a bit different. Searching a local CD would rely on a file name. You can't have keywords, tags, etc. Some of the files in "the paperclip" are horribly named, which makes it really tough to quickly find exactly what you're looking for. Some have screenshots, some don't. Some are zips of collections, some are single files, etc. It's simply confusing and time consuming to go through it that way. It was a great start, but the list is simply too large and cumbersome now. The best way to move forward is to index everything.

I downloaded the CD - the smaller one, had trouble getting the larger one. I'm sure some people want the entire collection locally, but others will just want to search a database online. The CD seemed to be sorted into folders by forum username maybe? This too would present an issue when trying to quickly browse a category or see a collection of large thumbnails representing search results. With the site, for example, you'll be able to see every single bird in 2 seconds. Type "birds" and click search and wala - large, uniform screenshots of every single one. No swords or horses or picture frames, just birds.

One last thing about "tags". Say you have a pattern of an A, in category A. You also have a pattern of a B in category B. Finally you have another category for LETTERS. We can tag things so if you search for B, the B patterns come up and the LETTERS patterns that have a B in them will show in the results also. It gives individual files the chance to appear as if they reside in multiple locations. Trust me - it's VASTLY superior to flat-file lists, forum posts, static web pages, etc.

Ike
01-17-2011, 01:44 PM
As I said before, I'm not trying to sound like I can't appreciate the work put into the CD, and all the other posts and lists available, but what I've started working on is a bit different. Searching a local CD would rely on a file name. You can't have keywords, tags, etc. Some of the files in "the paperclip" are horribly named, which makes it really tough to quickly find exactly what you're looking for. Some have screenshots, some don't. Some are zips of collections, some are single files, etc. It's simply confusing and time consuming to go through it that way. It was a great start, but the list is simply too large and cumbersome now. The best way to move forward is to index everything.

I downloaded the CD - the smaller one, had trouble getting the larger one. I'm sure some people want the entire collection locally, but others will just want to search a database online. The CD seemed to be sorted into folders by forum username maybe? This too would present an issue when trying to quickly browse a category or see a collection of large thumbnails representing search results. With the site, for example, you'll be able to see every single bird in 2 seconds. Type "birds" and click search and wala - large, uniform screenshots of every single one. No swords or horses or picture frames, just birds.

One last thing about "tags". Say you have a pattern of an A, in category A. You also have a pattern of a B in category B. Finally you have another category for LETTERS. We can tag things so if you search for B, the B patterns come up and the LETTERS patterns that have a B in them will show in the results also. It gives individual files the chance to appear as if they reside in multiple locations. Trust me - it's VASTLY superior to flat-file lists, forum posts, static web pages, etc.

Are you going to take all the patterns and insert them or allow the member to choose if they want their patterns in your site? I have several patterns I have shared and I really want to keep them in the forum and have the choice if I want them in external web site. I don't know if any member knows there is a web site http://www.compucarvewright.com/ that shares CW patterns on a volunteer basis.

Ike

Jonny
01-17-2011, 03:21 PM
I'm not sure how to go about it Ike. I hadn't given it much thought, because when you post something on a public forum in a thread that specifically states it's for sharing, technically anyone can do anything they want with the file. Copy it, re-share it, modify it, even package and sell it, as some of you have pointed out about that Ebay cd recently. I honestly didn't think it would be an issue.

On the other hand, this is the 3rd or 4th comment about people saying they are sharing, but with certain private restrictions, so some thought needs to go in to it. I guess I had just assumed that since it was a public thread with tons of valuable patterns just wasting away and not being found by nearly as many people as would have found it if it was properly sorted and delivered in a vehicle designed for the purpose, that nobody would care, and would, in fact, cheer. And yes, everyone, the patterns are wasting away. Go click that infamous paperclip for me and find the awesome "the last supper" pattern. The file name is "Is2ptn_188.zip" and there's no screenshot (sorry to whoever posted it, not trying to say you did anything wrong here). Won't have much luck finding it without starting at post number 1 and systematically downloading every file, opening the zips, and hope for the best. Luckily that one's on page 1, but there's hundreds of more examples on pages all the way to the end.

I swear to ya I don't mean to sound disrespectful, not even in the slightest, and I offer this as an honest question, but why would anyone care if their patterns were shared with a wider audience? Sharing is sharing. None of you have any idea how many people have copied your patterns from "the paperclip" and re-posted them elsewhere, so why care now when all I'm trying to do is put all of them in a public index for everyone to use? I'm not trying to make any money, get any recognition, or really do anything other than help this particular community. How do ya think people would get to the new site I make anyway? It would be you guys posting links to it when people ask for patterns.

I just downloaded the CD again from another site - it has every single pattern from the pattern sharing depot thread on it. No complaints there. It's an external site, as you put it, and anything you shared is on it if I understand correctly.

The DVD I think has every post from the entire forum doesn't it? That means everything anyone has ever posted is on it, yes? Again, no complaints against that, even with everyone's work on another website. Check around. You'll find shared patterns all over, some even for sale as you've recently seen.

Again - anyone getting all puffed up is misreading me here. I'm trying to do something that needs the support of the community if it is to succeed, so I'm not being inflammatory or argumentative. I've simply asked some honest questions and listed a few facts. Don't take them the wrong way folks.

It's not legally wrong. It's not morally wrong. It doesn't hurt anything or anybody, the person that shared the file loses nothing, but if, in fact, it's an issue in the community then we need to figure out how to proceed. I'm fine with the workload of downloading, taking screenshots, and uploading to the new site, but the particulars of figuring out who wants what could prove to be a bit much.

CarverJerry
01-17-2011, 04:42 PM
I don't see anything wrong with what you have in mind Jonny, I'm all for it myself. I too downloaded the DVD, and I'm over whelmed with it and how to find things on it, no offence Doug I know you put a whole lot of work into this and I thank you very much. I think your idea, work and efforts to do this should make everyone happy. Especially for the ones who don't have a lot of disc space left on their computers, or those who don't have a fast internet connection. I'm not a long time member here (10-2009), and I hope you get everyones backing on this as it will make it so much easier to find and see the designs you really want with just a click of the mouse.
I don't want to upset any member of our forum here as we have considered each other as our extended family, but come on you guys give Jonny a chance to show us what he wants to do for us and our forum. What can it hurt since it's already out there and its free for the findings, it'll just make it easier for all of us. Look at what AskBud has done for us, I've learned so much from his dedicated work and efforts, thank you Bud, you rock and you teach....

Thanks all
CarverJerry

eelamb
01-17-2011, 10:41 PM
There is a difference between sharing and FREE. Jonny I am sure the gallery you downloaded (shared) has a GNU license included with it basically stating you can use it, share it, modify it and share as long as you keep credits to the author in the code, but you can not sell it. All patterns are shared not free. Sharing gives the person downloading certain rights to the patterns, but ownership belongs with the creator (copyrighted).

If not for the eBay seller, I believe there would not be an issue, and I see you do not plan on selling them or making money on the patterns. Yet you stated you may want donations. For now I reserve the right to all patterns I have created, and I am exercising my rights to those patterns.

The website you are creating is yours (copyrighted), how would you feel if someone copied it for their personal gain? This is what the Ebay person has done, so I and others are a little skeptical at the moment.

fwharris
01-18-2011, 12:55 AM
I need to check for sure but I think when Jason (littleredwoodshop) set up the cncartguildform he copied all of the patterns/mpc posts from the gallery and put them on the forum as another source to the shared patterns. There are also ptn/mpc on the forum that are to large to up load here but the posts included links to the file sharing section on cnc. This is basically the same that Doug and john are doing (I think?) so nothing really new.

gwizpro
01-18-2011, 02:50 AM
I am curious, how does one prove that a PTN or MPC is theirs. Is their some coding in the file with their name. EXACTLY how would I know who's is who's, so I do not offend or cause a problem if I use a PTN from the forums in a sign and then sell the sign.... or use a PTN from the forum on my website to show potential customers examples.

bjbethke
01-18-2011, 07:50 AM
I am curious, how does one prove that a PTN or MPC is theirs. Is their some coding in the file with their name. EXACTLY how would I know who's is who's, so I do not offend or cause a problem if I use a PTN from the forums in a sign and then sell the sign.... or use a PTN from the forum on my website to show potential customers examples.

If you have the Pattern Editor and you made the pattern. You can open your own files, even if some one else reposts it at some other time. I find my patterns used that way. The code is embeded in the pattern.

brdad
01-18-2011, 10:04 AM
I am curious, how does one prove that a PTN or MPC is theirs. Is their some coding in the file with their name. EXACTLY how would I know who's is who's, so I do not offend or cause a problem if I use a PTN from the forums in a sign and then sell the sign.... or use a PTN from the forum on my website to show potential customers examples.

This is something I wish existed and have mentioned several times. It would be great if ptn and mpc files could be encoded with the creator information and that information would be visible to all users. If nothing else, it would make it easier to contact the creator and ask the intended uses of his offerings, as well as thanking the original creator for providing it. It would actually be great if the files we create could be protected via registration codes like the ones purchased from cw - that would help the people who post free files to share but do not necessarily intend and open license.

DickB
01-18-2011, 11:00 AM
Jonny, the patterns and projects shared on this site are definitely hard to locate and users would greatly benefit from the kind of organization that you propose. Enforcing some discipline such as requiring a picture to accompany the pattern when uploading would be a great thing IMHO. Please continue and hopefully contributors to this site will not create too many roadblocks for you. I don't know if I can help or if you need it, but ask if you do.

Jonny
01-18-2011, 11:51 AM
Dickb: Thanks for the encouragement and the offer to assist! As the project evolves, I'm sure I'll be posting here for help with various things.

Excellent news people: Hacking away at the PHP in the gallery script today, I was able to add the ability to store MPC files in addition to PTNs. There are a lot of MPCs out there, and since you can't extract a PTN from an MPC without being the creator of the pattern, they would have been excluded. Sometime after the site goes live, I'll start to include a section for project files and we can add MPCs that we want to share also.

I'm getting really close to posting the link to the live site. Granted there wont be a zillion files on the site yet, but there will be enough for you to drive it around and check out the powerful search and tag features. Initially I'm adding a few tags to each file. For example, a horse pattern would have "horses, animals, wildlife". I will be trying to make it so everyone can see the current tags, that way if I've missed something, anyone can post in the comments for that file suggesting additional tags.

The screenshots are looking great. I'm taking a big shot of each and the gallery resizes it to 640 pixels wide for detail viewing, and 200 pixels wide for the thumbnail preview. You'll be able to browse pages at probably 12 to 18 thumbnails per page and quickly glance around to see what you're interested in.

Finally, the site won't require user registration for anything other than posting comments. I had to do it that way to prevent spambots. For now, if you want to comment on a pattern, you'll just have to supply your username and password. You'll instantly be registered and can start commenting. For browsing and downloading, you don't have to register. Simple, easy, and fast.

jpaluck
01-18-2011, 02:15 PM
Jonny

Are you going to give the person who created the pattern credit for the creation?

Jonny
01-18-2011, 02:25 PM
I thought about it, but there are just too many places where someone digs up something someone else posted in another thread, etc. It would be miles of extra work and I'd be as likely to get it wrong as right, causing even more work to go back and fix it once pointed out. The site currently gives full credit to the community in general, and the carvewright.com forum users in particular. In addition, the script I am using is a photo gallery script, and the source code hacking just to make it serve files is quite a chore. For now, there's simply no way for the database to store additional particulars like that. There IS a comment system however, and I encourage anyone who sees a pattern than they created to comment on the pattern taking credit for creation if they'd like.

What I'm making is simply a vehicle to serve the hundreds of patterns to everyone that wants to browse. I'm being careful in its creation to steer folks here to say thanks.

Jonny
01-18-2011, 02:54 PM
I'm just now starting to concentrate on the pattern uploading. There are about 40 or so on there now, but I'll try to get a system down and have several dozen added each day, if not more.

There is a category called "no category yet". Creating a set of categories that will keep everything in a user-friendly setup was harder than I thought! If you see patterns here, please feel free to create an account, login, and post comments on the individual pattern pages to help me figure out where to put things. You can create an account by clicking on the "register" link at the top right of any page in the site. Again: The only reason to register is to comment. Viewing and downloading is wide open for everyone.

Also, when you're viewing an individual pattern file, you will see a small box on the left side at the top called "Tags", which will list the current tags for that pattern. Please help me by commenting on patterns to suggest additional tags. Remember that I've started a thing where tags are plural, so when applicable, suggest stuff with "s" on the end. The more descriptive the tags are, the more accurate the search results will become for everyone.

Please BE PATIENT as I sort and change categories, add tags and files, and respond to user feedback. Also, for the time being, please don't send me any patterns to upload. The process is explained in the footer text all over the site, but since we're just getting started, I have a metric ton of patterns from "the paperclip" to sort through.

Enjoy and please let me know here what you think so far! Suggestions and feedback will make things go a lot faster for me.

The URL is http://cwpatterns.com

fwharris
01-18-2011, 03:45 PM
John,

Looks great so far! Having the image really helps... Also the credits is a nice addition...

Ya got a loooong way to go..

lynnfrwd
01-18-2011, 04:13 PM
Looks great Jonny. I did have a problem registering. Actually, the problem was with putting www.carvewright.com as my website. I finally figured out that I needed to add http:// to the beginning of it.

Jonny
01-18-2011, 04:13 PM
Ya got a loooong way to go..

I think you're late for a big meeting with the Understatement Department. lol

Yup - I'd estimate that I currently have about 1200 PTN files and tons of uncounted MPC files. I'll get a system going and hopefully be able to add a hundred or so most days in my spare time. After that, I'll cross my fingers and hope the emails pour in with more additions!

Yeah the credits were a no-brainer. I want it to be a classy repository that celebrates the many pattern contributions from everyone here.

gwizpro
01-18-2011, 04:21 PM
John, this is awesome... .................. If I can help let me know.....

Jonny
01-18-2011, 04:30 PM
Looks great Jonny. I did have a problem registering. Actually, the problem was with putting www.carvewright.com (http://www.carvewright.com) as my website. I finally figured out that I needed to add http:// to the beginning of it. Thanks for the input! I went in and added a little blurb in the form telling folks to start with the http:// so hopefully nobody else will have that problem.

Thanks again for the info.

brdad
01-18-2011, 07:50 PM
This is very good. Maybe LHR needs to hire you! lol

b.sumner47
01-18-2011, 10:27 PM
Excellent work. Thank Very Much. Capt Barry

LittleRedWoodshop
01-19-2011, 12:10 AM
Jonny,

Thank you very much for the INSANE amount of time that you are spending putting this together. You are welcome to use anything that I have ever posted here. If you need any help let me know.

I would be very interested in advertising on your site and I will be adding links to all of the informational sites that I have built and the CNC Art Guild Forum. I know where there are about 2000 patterns stored, I will send you a link to them.

Thank you again and don't hesitate to ask for help.
Jason, LRW, LittleRedWoodshop ... Now, In Print Signs & Graphics

ruggybear
01-19-2011, 01:59 AM
Awesome website. Very much appreciated.

dvel56
01-19-2011, 02:06 AM
John

Your site is a very viable workable solution to a very confusing and cluttered pattern sharing thread.
The picture preview is a fantastic addition. Thank you for sharing your talent and expertise.
every member should be proud to be a part of a community that has a person like you in it

Respectfully
Dvel56

Jonny
01-19-2011, 08:14 AM
Wow. I had no idea the site would be such a flurry of activity so quickly. I've received several emails, a lot of you registered on the site, and from the responses here so far, I think we have a winner!

Thanks to everyone for all the positive comments. It's taken a lot of hours, but I'm off work recovering from fairly major arm and shoulder surgery, so I'm thankful to have something to do.

To everyone who has offered to help: Thanks in advance. Once I get a few final tweaks in and settle on a system for reliable pattern additions, I will surely be posting here outlining what volunteers could do to help make cwpatterns.com a great, free resource for all of us.

To the folks who have expressed an interest in advertising or donations: Let me see how it goes for the next couple of weeks. So far I'm only out a few hundred bucks paying a sub-contractor who works for me sometimes to help hack the gallery script, and sadly $125.00 talking to my lawyer lol. I'm not worried about either of those, and I actually expected the up-front costs to be far greater. The hosting is only about $10 bucks a month, and if I'm busy, I have subs in place at work who can do weekly checks, maintenance, additions, etc for $50.00 per. If the site proves to be more than a minor chore for me, then we can brainstorm to see what we could do to offset regular costs, but that's down the road. I'll be transparent about costs and will let folks know here if my girlfriend starts to whine (she keeps close tabs on my money!). Let me stress again though: If the time comes where we need to put our heads together to come up with financial support, I'll be transparent about it all. This is not, repeat not, a money-making venture for me. It needs to be free for everyone in the same spirit as the generous and helping nature of the entire community who have contributed so many amazing patterns to us all.

Plans for the next week or so: Once we start to get the list of categories in place for patterns, I'd like to add a section for completed project files. There are a lot of them floating around and it would be great to have those on the site as well. Finally, the obvious - adding patterns. There's only about 40 on there now, but I have about a thousand to add, and I'll be working on them every day.

Thanks again everyone! I'm really pleased at the interest so far.

P.S. Whoops! I thought if someone sent a PM on the boards that I'd get a popup window to notify me. I've got several messages that I just noticed when I saw the notifications link and will respond this morning to everyone.

Jonny
01-19-2011, 10:13 AM
More good news. I think it's been worked out with everyone via PM about the concerns with taking patterns from here and adding them to cwpatterns.com.

If you still at this time do NOT want your patterns used, please let me know via this forum. Because it is my desire that we continue the cwpatterns.com site on a positive and upbeat note (and curb any friction on the forums here), I will make a REASONABLE effort to see that your patterns are excluded. If you say don't use them and any accidentally find their way there, don't stomp kittens or hex me, just send me a message and I'll take care of removal. Again I do want to note that patterns added there are only there for users to browse and download, free of charge. I do not, am not, and will not try to pose as their author, take credit for their creation, or attempt to package and sell them anywhere for any reason. I will, in fact, take several steps to ensure that full credit is given to the community-at-large here. I'm making a tool for you, the authors and carvers. Nothing more.

chebytrk
01-19-2011, 10:43 AM
Excellent, Excellent, Excellent site. Congrats! and Thanks! This is going to make patterns so much easier to find and use.

Old Salt
01-19-2011, 11:53 AM
You can post any of my patterns to this list .

Gary Rodewald " Old Salt "

Thanks for your work will be glade to help with any fee needed will save me a lot of time.

Gary

Jonny
01-19-2011, 06:36 PM
Ok... there's been countless offer to help, so I thought I'd take a few of you up on it if possible.

What I'd like to do is get a few people that are comfortable unzipping a small collection of PTN files, installing them, and taking screenshots. Once done with all of the patterns, zip it up and email it back. It's an easy thing, just time-consuming, and I have about 1500 patterns now, so I hope to divide the work up and have people do as many or as few as they'd like, in batches of say 50 or 100, whichever you'd prefer. Here are the exact particulars for those interested:

I'll give you a custom wood grain image to install. Drop it into the "woods1" directory of your carvewright software install, usually c:/program files/carvewright/woods1. This is so the screenshots are all a solid color that all match. Here's the wood grain image (you can delete it when you're done without any trouble):

41511

Unzip and install the pattern files. Create a blank project as large as possible like 14 x 14 x 1, apply the wood grain that you installed, change the finish to "High Gloss", and click VIEW -> TOGGLE CONSTRUCTION LINKS in the software to remove those awful lines from the project.

Zoom in so the project is larger than 640 pixels wide. Attached is a 640 x 640 sample image. You can download it and open it on your computer to see an example of what you're shooting for in the zoom. Just larger than that. A little, a lot, doesn't matter.

41510

Insert a pattern to the project, center it both ways, and drag a corner out until it's reasonably close to the edges of the project. With some patterns, you also need a rectangle carve region that's as large as your project, so you can set the carve depth of the region to match the pattern. Some, like plaque blanks, don't want this, but other things like objects say a hammer or a baseball, would want the surrounding area removed. Just use your judgment on what you think looks best to display the pattern for us all.

Snap your screenshot, crop it to just be the project area, and save the screenshot. Finally, you have to rename the PTN file and the JPG image to exactly match (i.e. "heart-frame-1.ptn" and "heart-frame-1.jpg". All lower case letters, and substitute spaces with a dash (-). 2 or 3 words, something descriptive. It sounds like a lot, but once you get moving you can do one every minute or less. A lot of particulars I know, but I'm fanatical about things being neat, uniform, and high quality.

If you're interested and don't mind the details, grab that wood grain image from here and post a screenshot of a pattern you already have on the thread just to make sure I've explained everything properly - I'd hate to miss something and have you do a hundred of em and I say whoops I forgot this or that, or they're too small, etc. Also let me know how many you'd be comfortable with, 25, 50, 100.

Thanks in advance folks! I'm up to a whopping 70 or so on the site now, but I keep jumping back to work on the site code and can't get moving fast enough.

CarverJerry
01-19-2011, 07:44 PM
Thank You Jonny, nice job on the site. I just registered on it, took a look around and like what I see. Keep up the great work.

CJ

ruggybear
01-19-2011, 10:48 PM
Jonny,

I would be glad to help.

Attached is my example.

I would begin with 25 to get a feel of time requirement and then probably opt for more.

Ken

Jonny
01-20-2011, 10:24 AM
Hiya ruddybear! Thanks for the offer to help. I sent you a PM with some info and a link to a zip file with 25 patterns.

We've got 3 people so far working on the screenshots. If anyone else wants to assist, post here with your sample and I'll PM you with a link.

Quick question for EVERYONE: Right now, the thumbnails for the patterns are displaying in 3 columns across, and 4 rows high. Does 3 columns across look the best for your screen resolutions? How about the rows? Would you prefer more rows so you can scroll down further seeing more previews per page, or would you rather just have the 4 rows and be able to page back and forth with the header links?

Kenm810
01-20-2011, 10:52 AM
Hi Jonny,

3 Columns looks fine to me, their a nice size to see the detail of the patterns.
4 Rows High is allright, but I would mind scrolling to see 6, 8, 10, or more rows in a group.

Just my thoughts, -- and thanks again for your work and efforts

Ps. If I hadn't already mentioned it, your more than welcome to include any files I've Posted

badger2424
01-20-2011, 07:28 PM
Hey Jonny,
Looked over site and you've done a great job and it will save us alot of time searching. Was downloading a few when a couple (Objects-lone pine, 5 and 6 point star) gave me page not found. When I clicked for feedback it sent me here. Just to let you know when I get done with 27 more signs for a golf course, would be glad to help. Will check back and see how its going then. Again, great job.

badger2424
01-20-2011, 07:47 PM
Jonny,
You work fast, went back just now and the lone pine and 5 and6 star ptns worked.

Jonny
01-20-2011, 07:48 PM
Broken links fixed - I'd simply forgot to add some of the data when I upp'd those patterns. Thanks for pointing them out!

Jonny
01-20-2011, 07:49 PM
Jonny,
You work fast, went back just now and the lone pine and 5 and6 star ptns worked.lol

I've been working on this site from 8am until 9pm every night nonstop for several days now so I'm getting sloppy, but I'm still responsive :)

Jonny
01-21-2011, 02:01 PM
Is it possible to get this thread moved into the pattern sharing forum? Since creation of the new forum, I think this thread and info would be better suited there than here in the gallery.

Thanks in advance!

lynnfrwd
01-21-2011, 02:09 PM
I got lots of moving to do. Just went and "nourished" myself so now I'm ready to tackle the job.

Jonny
01-22-2011, 11:50 AM
I've been thinking about watermarking the pictures on the site. Something to help prevent a person from just gathering a bunch of them up and trying to pass the patterns off as commercial. It would be an almost transparent watermark like what you see on stock photo-selling sites, with an emphasis like "This is a FREE pattern". It wouldn't degrade the picture quality or interfere with persons browsing the site, but it would help discourage someone from attempting to mass-collect things, because they couldn't re-use the pics to 'commercialize' the patterns.

As it is now, a user has to grab one thing at a time anyway, and I think it best to leave it that way. There is an option to add patterns to a queue and just click on a final link to get a zip of what they've chosen, but that's just inviting trouble and I've kept it turned off.

Whats everyone think? I say watermark them to help protect the spirit of the free sharing and distribution.

ruggybear
01-22-2011, 01:01 PM
Watermark DOIT!!

Jonny
01-22-2011, 01:31 PM
I'm going to go ahead and add a watermark to show everyone what it would look like. It is easy to do, and easy to remove if everyone doesn't like it.

I'm just trying to respond to several people telling me they fear the patterns will be copied writ large and packaged. I detest watermarks and will probably pout, but they're a bear to remove by others and will help protect things.

Kenm810
01-22-2011, 02:01 PM
Watermark Yes! -- Ya got my Vote

fwharris
01-22-2011, 02:05 PM
Thumbs UP !!!

Deolman
01-22-2011, 03:25 PM
I agree watermarks are not preferred, but, they are a necessary evil so to speak. Given the circumstances, I think it is a good idea to protect the users who donated them. Go for it!

I just looked after posting the above and I don't think the watermarks are detracting from the pattern images. I stick with my original decision. Do it!

fwharris
01-22-2011, 03:56 PM
Jack,

Totally off subject but great disclaimer!!! LAO!!

Jonny
01-22-2011, 04:00 PM
Jack,

Totally off subject but great disclaimer!!! LAO!!

Hey, ya gotta keep it light, right? "This website can be used as a flotation device" is my personal favorite line from it.

I also have the HTML page title coded to randomly display from about a dozen messages, mostly common errors with the machine. Good stuff!

Jonny
01-22-2011, 05:31 PM
Some random news:

Since the 18th, even with only about 150 patterns online, there have been about a hundred people a day on the site, viewing an average of almost 20 pages each. Over 1200 pattern views have been recorded and 185 patterns have been downloaded. The most popular have been the last supper (23 downloads) and the 'little boy' pattern (9 downloads). Toss in a 10% bounce rate (the number of people who only hit ONE page on a site, and the national average is closer to 40%) and the metrics say people are very interested and digging it.

Also, my girlfriends 9 year old son who is familiar with my carvewright machine and loves it walked up to me at the computer last night. I was working on the site... he asks about it, and I explain what it's for. He asks "can everybody in the world see it?". I say yes. He says "Even people in Alaska?". Yup. "Can people in China see it?" he says. I say yes even in China. He shakes his head and says "This website is going to be a booming success!". I'm still laughing 24 hours later.

Thanks Ken and Parry so far for returning the screenshots so quickly and helping with the patterns! I'm uploading over 200 more later tonight, time permitting.

Capt Bruce
01-23-2011, 07:28 AM
One more vote for watermarking the images to "protect" the spirit of free sharing among Forum members. Thanks again for your evident hard work on behalf of everyone here.

Mikewiz
01-23-2011, 08:31 AM
Saw your site this morning. It's a great site! Thanks

ajk
01-23-2011, 10:46 PM
I just saw your site. I can imange all the work that you have bee doing. Thanls very much for do all these work for alll of us.
thanks
Hilda and Ajk

easybuilt
01-23-2011, 11:27 PM
Jack, Thank you for ALL your hard work!
It is great what you have done for ALL of us and improve our sharing.

Digitalwoodshop
01-23-2011, 11:37 PM
The website and idea is GREAT...

I registered but the system stalled when I submitted my info... Will try tomorrow.

AL

Jonny
01-24-2011, 06:18 AM
Thanks guys for all the feedback. It's really a ton of work, but several people have volunteered to help with the screenshots, renaming patterns, etc., so it's coming along quickly. If anyone else is comfortable importing patterns and taking screenshots for the site and wants to help, post here and I'll get you set up for as few or as many as you want.

Al - I see in the log files that it says "user Digitalwoodshop requested email reset - user does not exist". Try starting over with your registration, and if you have any further issues PM me and I'll look at it.

Frederick_P
01-24-2011, 10:01 AM
Jonny,
Just stumbled on this now. Wow! You deserve senior membership status for this contribution! Bravo!!!

Jonny
01-24-2011, 10:17 AM
Jonny,
Just stumbled on this now. Wow! You deserve senior membership status for this contribution! Bravo!!!

What's that? I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome cwpatterns.com is! *grin*

Ya know, it's a combination of things. I'm off work recovering from shoulder surgery. I ran out of wood to carve with and needed something to do. I couldn't even begin to contribute patterns that are a fraction of the quality that some of you guys do, so I'm just happy that I found something sorely needed that's in my skill set. My girlfriend is even happy, and reports that it's good to see me so motivated about something, as I've been sitting around the house grumbling about boredom and being unable to use my arm for many, many months.

It's really rare to see a group of volunteers that consistently give immeasurable amounts of valuable time to each other, displaying the patient and helpful attitude that I'm sure motivates many new CarveWright owners to get past the learning-curve of machine quirks and technical lingo so that they can turn out some really great projects. That website is you folks - I just sweep the patterns into a nice little pile.

Digitalwoodshop
01-24-2011, 11:05 AM
Tried to register again but it stops at clicking the register button.

AL

Jonny
01-24-2011, 11:08 AM
Al - when you click the register button, a small window is supposed to appear in the middle of the screen - see screenshot below. Do you see the window when you click the register button?

41639

Jonny
01-24-2011, 07:38 PM
I think my eyes are bleeding and I know my tail is sore from this chair, but there are now 501 patterns on the site.

Thanks Ken and Perry and Colin for the screenshot help! Tommorrow I want my inbox to have email from another screenshot pro or two to help me wade through these! *crossfingers*

ralphk47
01-25-2011, 11:06 PM
Hey Jonny
CW Patterns is fantastic.I'm a newbie with a carvewright addiction so this site is killer!!Got a question for ya because I'm still green.My wife got addicted also and bought her own machine but it is a shark pro plus(she wanted something bigger) and will be using vectric software,Vcarve pro and photovcarve.She will be creating many custom designs that she has no problem sharing with others.Can these designs be used in Carvewright or vice versa?
thanks
ralphk

fwharris
01-26-2011, 12:39 AM
Hey Jonny
CW Patterns is fantastic.I'm a newbie with a carvewright addiction so this site is killer!!Got a question for ya because I'm still green.My wife got addicted also and bought her own machine but it is a shark pro plus(she wanted something bigger) and will be using vectric software,Vcarve pro and photovcarve.She will be creating many custom designs that she has no problem sharing with others.Can these designs be used in Carvewright or vice versa?
thanks
ralphk

Ralph,

I believe the only file format from the vectic software that could be used is the STL. The CW user would then need the STL importer to convert them to the PTN format for the machine..

Jonny
01-26-2011, 07:13 AM
Ok I'm on a bit of a hiatus from the patterns. It's a real pain in the tail sorting, renaming, etc. I'll be back into it in another day or so. At the moment, there are 3 guys working on screenshots, so I'll add mine and theirs as soon as they are all done. I'm working today on refining the search capabilities and such.

I'm using google analytics to track behaviors on the site, and I see a LOT of people that keep coming back 2-3 times a day and browsing an average of 20+ pages. FYI if you're just killing time and seeing what's new, there's a link on the left side halfway down the page for "latest updates". This will show you all the patterns added to a folder or to the entire site (depending on which of the two links you click) from newest to oldest - there have been over 10,000 pageviews this week and that link has only been clicked 73 times, so I'm guessing it's being overlooked.

Also, the 'newest to oldest' sorting when you click the latest updates link is exactly the opposite of how patterns are displayed in the categories. Those are displayed 'oldest to newest' so if you see a pattern on page 2 of decorations, it will always be on page 2. Newer patterns added to the same category will be on page 3, 4, etc.,

A few people have asked "why is there a category for hearts" or something similar. Well, I put hearts into "decorations" and once there were a lot of them I added a category for 'em to keep things together. This will be an evolving category list as patterns are added. I'm putting a ton of time into thinking about how people will want to find things, and I want it to be a super-easy browsing experience for everyone. If you see a mistake, have a suggestion for a new category, etc., just post here. I'd welcome any feedback that helps us improve the site.

One final note: I'm adding patterns now WITHOUT adding the tags to save time. Once we have all initial patterns online, I'll work to start adding the tags to each pattern. The more tags we add, the 'smarter' the search results will be for everyone.

cnsranch
01-27-2011, 12:12 PM
Jonny - got a question.....

When I visit your site and click on "latest updates", it's giving me all 33+ pages, showing all patterns.

I'm logged in, does the site track my visits, and then supposed to show me the updates since my last visit, or am I having another "Senior Member Moment"?

Jonny
01-27-2011, 12:46 PM
When you click on the latest updates link, it will show you every single pattern, starting with the newest pattern at the top of page 1 and the oldest pattern at the bottom of the last page. You can view all of them at once, or when you're in a particular category you can click the 'this category' link to see what's new in that cat, in the same order.

It doesn't track visits, it just shows everything by date newest to oldest.

henry1
01-27-2011, 01:50 PM
When you click on the latest updates link, it will show you every single pattern, starting with the newest pattern at the top of page 1 and the oldest pattern at the bottom of the last page. You can view all of them at once, or when you're in a particular category you can click the 'this category' link to see what's new in that cat, in the same order.

It doesn't track visits, it just shows everything by date newest to oldest.
Your site is great love it but there is one pattern the ship wheel and light house when I click on it it bring me to error page wrong place is that normal
Henry

Jonny
01-27-2011, 02:18 PM
Nope, not normal. I went in and fixed that one, had just forgot to add the pattern file name to the screenshot and link. Thanks for reporting it!

FYI all I'm adding another 125ish patterns right now, which will bring the total to around 725 or so. That will be all of the PTN files from the pattern sharing depot thread a.k.a. "the paperclip", minus a few that people didn't want added. Next I'm starting on the MPC files from there and sorting about 600 other PTN files that were send to me, checking for duplicates, etc., then I'll add those as well. Ballpark estimate right now is 1800-2000 total patterns on the site before incoming patterns slow to a trickle.

mwhatch
01-30-2011, 09:31 AM
Looking Good. How about a section for grayscale images.

Deolman
01-30-2011, 12:32 PM
Jonny, did you see that sometime earlier in this thread Jason over at the Little Red Woodshop offered about 2K patterns?

The CWPattern site is looking good. - Parry

Jonny
01-30-2011, 03:10 PM
Looking Good. How about a section for grayscale images.

I have had a couple of people ask about that. I think once we get the PTN files all up we will work on a few additional areas - I want to have a 'complete projects' section for noobs and pros both - maybe some simple projects with step-by-step for first-carve type people, and some more comprehensive ones for more seasoned folks. Not sure how exactly height maps would fit in - can you give more detail about what you're thinking?


Jonny, did you see that sometime earlier in this thread Jason over at the Little Red Woodshop offered about 2K patterns?

The CWPattern site is looking good. - Parry

Yup - I talked to him and did download the PTN files. The problem is there are a LOT of duplicates from the old pattern sharing thread - I'm going to have to go through them one at a time and search the site to try to keep dupes away, but there are many good ones that I haven't seen on the forums - they'll be added soon as I get the time to sort 'em out.

I'm also struggling with how to take screenshots of the MPCs that I have - there's about 1500 of them now, but with varying sizes, it may not be possible to create uniform, square screenshots of everything. Not a huge deal, but I like all the pics to be the same ratio, color, etc. (OCD yes, but it sure does look good!).

mwhatch
01-30-2011, 05:52 PM
I would be happy to explain. I do not yet have a Carvewright, hope to in the next month or so. I do have a small cnc machine and the Vectric Aspire software as I am sure other people on this forum have. I am no graphic artist, but I believe I or others like myself could come up with some nice basic designs that can be converted to grayscale, then iimported into the CW software. I have included an image created using Aspire, from a free 3ds file I found on the internet. This image can be imported and cut using the CW and CW software. I am really looking forward to using the CW, but I need to wait awhile for warmer weather since I will be using it in my garage
.41765

Jonny
02-01-2011, 05:39 PM
A couple of updates on the site: First, even though there's only a few (3) people that insist on not having their patterns listed, I'm not name-watching. It's simply too much work and hassle. If you are one of the very few that don't want your patterns on the site, you have two options. Either check there regularly and report the pattern name and link of your work that you don't want listed, or simply don't post patterns in public here. I'm just too swamped with trying to add to the workload on the site. The overwhelming majority of the users that share patterns don't mind and have encouraged me to list everything in sight. I'll gladly go as far as removing ones you request, but adding another rule to my gather/sort isn't going to fly.

Next - I'm working with someone to add the capability to rate patterns with a 1 to 5 or 1 to 10 system. Not sure how long it will take, but it's in the works.

Finally - I added a paypal.com donation link at the bottom of the pages in the site. So far I'm down about $600.00, and the work on the rating capability is going to set me back a bit more. I don't expect to recover the startup costs entirely, that was never the plan. But if anyone does want to contribute anything it would be greatly appreciated. As I said from the start, this isn't a for-profit thing, but there are certain costs involved. If by some miracle the donate button collected more than I have invested, I'd either buy toddler gift boxes for the charity Feed the Kids, or post here to ask for ideas on improving the site, maybe buying some credit with LHR and having a pattern making contest and the winner gets the credit for bits/patterns/etc from their store... just tossing ideas out there.

To those who have donated so far or are considering it, thanks a ton! The site will continue to grow - traffic keeps climbing, and over 1000 patterns have now been downloaded - that ain't bad for the first 2 weeks.

dbfletcher
02-01-2011, 06:01 PM
A couple of updates on the site: First, even though there's only a few (3) people that insist on not having their patterns listed, I'm not name-watching. It's simply too much work and hassle. If you are one of the very few that don't want your patterns on the site, you have two options. Either check there regularly and report the pattern name and link of your work that you don't want listed, or simply don't post patterns in public here. I'm just too swamped with trying to add to the workload on the site. The overwhelming majority of the users that share patterns don't mind and have encouraged me to list everything in sight. I'll gladly go as far as removing ones you request, but adding another rule to my gather/sort isn't going to fly.

Next - I'm working with someone to add the capability to rate patterns with a 1 to 5 or 1 to 10 system. Not sure how long it will take, but it's in the works.

Finally - I added a paypal.com donation link at the bottom of the pages in the site. So far I'm down about $600.00, and the work on the rating capability is going to set me back a bit more. I don't expect to recover the startup costs entirely, that was never the plan. But if anyone does want to contribute anything it would be greatly appreciated. As I said from the start, this isn't a for-profit thing, but there are certain costs involved. If by some miracle the donate button collected more than I have invested, I'd either buy toddler gift boxes for the charity Feed the Kids, or post here to ask for ideas on improving the site, maybe buying some credit with LHR and having a pattern making contest and the winner gets the credit for bits/patterns/etc from their store... just tossing ideas out there.

To those who have donated so far or are considering it, thanks a ton! The site will continue to grow - traffic keeps climbing, and over 1000 patterns have now been downloaded - that ain't bad for the first 2 weeks.


I personally think any type of rating system is a terrible idea. The philosophy of this forum has always been that any contribution is a great contribution. All a rating system will do is discourage many who are still crafting their skills from sharing their work. That would be terrible thing for our community as a whole.

I also am a bit surprised by " but adding another rule to my gather/sort isn't going to fly." Even if it is not technically morally, legally or ethically wrong... this community has always gone to great lengths to respect the wishes of our fellow members. I have always maintained that anything I share can be used in ANY manner, but I fully support every member to determine for themselves how or how not their shared items can be used. I find it a bit arrogant to take such a position. I would hope you will reconsider this stand. If I am misreading you statements, I apologize and please clarify your statements.

I think we owe it to each other to do everything in our power to respect each other and try to maintain a happy family.

Jonny
02-01-2011, 06:06 PM
Doug - you're misunderstanding what I said. I did mean that saying "don't post my stuff" won't work. I simply can't keep track of what came from where. I did say I'd gladly remove any pattern that someone points out as theirs and asks to be removed. That should suffice, and allow me to keep up the sorting pace. If someone is going to be totally touchy and flip out when they see their patterns elsewhere and thinks it's too much trouble to just point it out to me and ask for it to be removed, then maybe posting a file in a public place isn't for them.

As I said when the discussion started, I won't keep a pattern on the site that someone posted here and I accidentally swept up for inclusion, but they will have to be the one that tells me - I just don't want to track it. I hope that makes sense.

dbfletcher
02-01-2011, 06:09 PM
Doug - you're misunderstanding what I said. I did mean that saying "don't post my stuff" won't work. I simply can't keep track of what came from where. I did say I'd gladly remove any pattern that someone points out as theirs and asks to be removed. That should suffice, and allow me to keep up the sorting pace. If someone is going to be totally touchy and flip out when they see their patterns elsewhere and thinks it's too much trouble to just point it out to me and ask for it to be removed, then maybe posting a file in a public place isn't for them.

As I said when the discussion started, I won't keep a pattern on the site that someone posted here and I accidentally swept up for inclusion, but they will have to be the one that tells me - I just don't want to track it. I hope that makes sense.

Thank you for the clarification. I just wanted to make sure that we all try to respect everyone who is a part of this forum. Bad blood only hurts everyone in the long run.

Jonny
02-01-2011, 06:12 PM
I totally agree. I just want the very few that don't want their patterns listed elsewhere to know and understand that it's far less work for them to just check every so often than have me have to add another regular step to pattern sorting on this end.

Deolman
02-01-2011, 11:00 PM
Jonny, - seeing your carve of the cover pattern turned on a light. Can you consider a section where items for the Carvewright itself has been used? You might start with the cover. I know their have been some sleds. I had thought of something else I was going to mention and now it escapes me. Perhaps someone in the community can remember.

Rocky
02-02-2011, 04:17 AM
A "rating" system, with 2 or 3 relative questions sounds 'ok' with me. If one of my patterns is in the mix and someone has some relative comments about it, I would want to know what they are. I would also like to see a "Comments/Tips" section associated with each pattern. One where people, including pattern author, could provide information that help the user get a better carve. For example, type of wood used, etc.

Jonny
02-02-2011, 11:40 AM
I would also like to see a "Comments/Tips" section associated with each pattern. One where people, including pattern author, could provide information that help the user get a better carve. For example, type of wood used, etc.

There's a comment system already in place - when you're looking at an individual pattern, the comments are below the large screenshot. Not many are using it yet, but it's there.

Rocky
02-03-2011, 05:53 AM
There's a comment system already in place - when you're looking at an individual pattern, the comments are below the large screenshot. Not many are using it yet, but it's there.

DUH....I guess I didn't look close enough....Thanks.

bjbethke
02-03-2011, 07:43 AM
A couple of updates on the site: First, even though there's only a few (3) people that insist on not having their patterns listed, I'm not name-watching. It's simply too much work and hassle. If you are one of the very few that don't want your patterns on the site, you have two options. Either check there regularly and report the pattern name and link of your work that you don't want listed, or simply don't post patterns in public here. I'm just too swamped with trying to add to the workload on the site. The overwhelming majority of the users that share patterns don't mind and have encouraged me to list everything in sight. I'll gladly go as far as removing ones you request, but adding another rule to my gather/sort isn't going to fly.

Next - I'm working with someone to add the capability to rate patterns with a 1 to 5 or 1 to 10 system. Not sure how long it will take, but it's in the works.

Finally - I added a paypal.com donation link at the bottom of the pages in the site. So far I'm down about $600.00, and the work on the rating capability is going to set me back a bit more. I don't expect to recover the startup costs entirely, that was never the plan. But if anyone does want to contribute anything it would be greatly appreciated. As I said from the start, this isn't a for-profit thing, but there are certain costs involved. If by some miracle the donate button collected more than I have invested, I'd either buy toddler gift boxes for the charity Feed the Kids, or post here to ask for ideas on improving the site, maybe buying some credit with LHR and having a pattern making contest and the winner gets the credit for bits/patterns/etc from their store... just tossing ideas out there.

To those who have donated so far or are considering it, thanks a ton! The site will continue to grow - traffic keeps climbing, and over 1000 patterns have now been downloaded - that ain't bad for the first 2 weeks.


If you are trying to steal the patterns in the paper clip to post them in your private WEB site, you are no better than the guy that is stealing from us posters than the guy from E-Bay ... think about it; how many of the patterns are you posting do you own, and are now trying to make money from. (I see the PayPal sign), maybe even trying to selling all this to the WEB
And now you are trying to ask people to rank which ones are best … NO, NO, NO
I like the CW forum the way it is, I have the right to remove my patterns now, when they are miss used and put on a private forum I lose that right, BJB

Frederick_P
02-03-2011, 10:20 AM
If you are trying to steal the patterns in the paper clip to post them in your private WEB site, you are no better than the guy that is stealing from us posters than the guy from E-Bay ... think about it; how many of the patterns are you posting do you own, and are now trying to make money from. (I see the PayPal sign), maybe even trying to selling all this to the WEB
And now you are trying to ask people to rank which ones are best … NO, NO, NO
I like the CW forum the way it is, I have the right to remove my patterns now, when they are miss used and put on a private forum I lose that right, BJB

BJB,
I must respectfully disagree. The work that was done on this site goes far beyond any VOLUNTARY donations that may be offered to support it. If one of your patterns shows up, you can ask to have it removed. But if you publish your patterns in this, or any other forum, there is nothing stopping anyone from distributing it through any means they wish. The internet is a place where once you put something on it (anywhere) you run the risk of having it copied. This site is a real benefit to all who own a CW machine as the little paperclip method used in the pattern sharing forum is an awkward way for people to see what it is they are downloading. This is a community and as such, I am impressed by the effort that people have taken to help each other. This site is just another example. If you do not support it, then you are not obligated to do so. The idea of having patterns rated will give people feedback on what to expect from them and will encourage posters to put up only the very best. I applaud Jonny for his work and having created several web site myself, I understand how much time and effort is involved. I am puzzled why you would not recognize this, but participation is completely voluntary.

gregsolano
02-03-2011, 06:07 PM
I just got my machine less than a week ago and as a total newbee I have not figured out how to make my own patterns and I have learned so much from these forum posts. I found jacks website and right away visited the site and downloaded some patterns. I will make a donation and I thank him for doing this. I plan to donate patterns once I start making my own and think this is a great way for us to help each other. To those who have posted patterns here and are complaining about inclusion in the free site I say once you posted a pattern anywhere on the internet for anyone to download then its free game. If you don't want a pattern given away or sold on ebay then only email them to those you want to have or sell them on your own site or carvewrights site. Then you have a legitimate claim against some one who buys your pattern then gives or sells it to someone else. If you post it for anyone to take for free then you have given up rights to that pattern. I am not a lawyer but that is my opinion.

liquidguitars
02-03-2011, 07:20 PM
BJB,
I must respectfully disagree. The work that was done on this site goes far beyond any VOLUNTARY donations that may be offered to support it. If one of your patterns shows up, you can ask to have it removed. But if you publish your patterns in this, or any other forum, there is nothing stopping anyone from distributing it through any means they wish.

Somehow I do not think we all just fell off the turnip cart here, BJB has donated a ton of patterns over the years I have a feeling the he probably will think twice now as will I. Why? well now that Lynn has category's for patterns I consider moving our "freeware MPC's" as not necessary. I like to also state that John telling us how hard it is to build a website over and over does not make me feel any better. It's nice to visit a place that has options.. but it's also natural to protect the community from spam or redirection. lets be honest if Johny made the patterns himself we would not be having any reservations.

dbfletcher
02-03-2011, 07:21 PM
I just got my machine less than a week ago and as a total newbee I have not figured out how to make my own patterns and I have learned so much from these forum posts. I found jacks website and right away visited the site and downloaded some patterns. I will make a donation and I thank him for doing this. I plan to donate patterns once I start making my own and think this is a great way for us to help each other. To those who have posted patterns here and are complaining about inclusion in the free site I say once you posted a pattern anywhere on the internet for anyone to download then its free game. If you don't want a pattern given away or sold on ebay then only email them to those you want to have or sell them on your own site or carvewrights site. Then you have a legitimate claim against some one who buys your pattern then gives or sells it to someone else. If you post it for anyone to take for free then you have given up rights to that pattern. I am not a lawyer but that is my opinion.

This is not my understanding at all. Simply because someone posts something on the internet, does not mean they relinquish any of their rights in regard to the material posted. Anything you create (at least in the US) is automatically copyrighted. Unless you EXPRESSLY give up you rights, you don’t lose them simply by posting.

Although I have said this a number of time, personally I don’t care how anything I post gets used, but at the same time I FULLY support every member to be allowed to determine for themselves how they want or don’t want any of their copyrighted material to be used.

The creative commons license is similar to GNU (mostly for software), but expands its scope to a variety of other mediums.

References are posted below:

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html (http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html)
When is my work protected?
Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.

Do I have to register with your office to be protected?
No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Copyright Registration (http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.pdf).”

http://wiki.creativecommons.org/FAQ (http://wiki.creativecommons.org/FAQ)
How does a Creative Commons license operate?
A Creative Commons license is based on copyright. So they apply to all works that are protected by copyright law. The kinds of works that are protected by copyright law are books, websites, blogs, photographs, films, videos, songs and other audio & visual recordings, for example. Software programs are also protected by copyright but, as explained below, we do not recommend that you apply a Creative Commons license to software code.
Creative Commons licenses give you the ability to dictate how others may exercise your copyright rights—such as the right of others to copy your work, make derivative works or adaptations of your work, to distribute your work and/or make money from your work. They do not give you the ability to restrict anything that is otherwise permitted by exceptions or limitations to copyright—including, importantly, fair use or fair dealing—nor do they give you the ability to control anything that is not protected by copyright law, such as facts and ideas

Jonny
02-03-2011, 07:45 PM
One time when I worked as the Operations Manager for a contract security company, a lot of the guards were complaining about the location of a holiday function. I went to my boss and asked him why the guards were always whining. He said "you could call five hundred random people today and tell them you're giving each one of them a hundred dollars, and half of them would complain that they have to come pick it up". He was right. CWPatterns.com will take you, drag you, kicking and screaming if need be, out of the paperclip and into the 21st century.

To everyone that's emailed or PM'd me today - the site ain't going anywhere. I'm a bit busy and not adding patterns like I should be, but it'll keep growing. This ain't my first rodeo. Love my CarveWright, love the community, and the few that can't get behind the new idea yet will come around with time as they slowly see that no treachery is involved - watch and see. In the meantime, I will, as always, listen to constructive input from everyone. This is a project that needs to reflect the collective ideas of the community here.

liquidguitars
02-03-2011, 07:52 PM
This is not my understanding at all. Simply because someone posts something on the Internet, does not mean they relinquish any of their rights in regard to the material posted. Anything you create (at least in the US) is automatically copyrighted. Unless you EXPRESSLY give up you rights, you don’t lose them simply by posting.

Although I have said this a number of time, personally I don’t care how anything I post gets used, but at the same time I FULLY support every member to be allowed to determine for themselves how they want or don’t want any of their copyrighted material to be used.

The creative commons license is similar to GNU (mostly for software), but expands its scope to a variety of other mediums.

References are posted below:

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html (http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html)
When is my work protected?
Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.

Do I have to register with your office to be protected?
No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Copyright Registration (http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.pdf).”

http://wiki.creativecommons.org/FAQ (http://wiki.creativecommons.org/FAQ)
How does a Creative Commons license operate?
A Creative Commons license is based on copyright. So they apply to all works that are protected by copyright law. The kinds of works that are protected by copyright law are books, websites, blogs, photographs, films, videos, songs and other audio & visual recordings, for example. Software programs are also protected by copyright but, as explained below, we do not recommend that you apply a Creative Commons license to software code.
Creative Commons licenses give you the ability to dictate how others may exercise your copyright rights—such as the right of others to copy your work, make derivative works or adaptations of your work, to distribute your work and/or make money from your work. They do not give you the ability to restrict anything that is otherwise permitted by exceptions or limitations to copyright—including, importantly, fair use or fair dealing—nor do they give you the ability to control anything that is not protected by copyright law, such as facts and ideas

Thanks Doug.. I think what got us a little cranky is the idea for us not to post if we do not like the results... right now I have a few of my violin images taken for my site and reposted as a google link to import violins. I have to contact Google to get it cleared up after no response from their website. at least i get some free advertising :)

PCW
02-03-2011, 08:01 PM
Well I have been following this tread and I guess what made a lot of people think twice was Johnny announced the new site on his first post to the forum. I feel what Johnny is doing is good thing by organizing the cluttered mess that we have created, and maybe it's something LHR should be doing but heck I can see their thinking as well if someone else want to do it why not.

I suspect that we will lose some of our better pattern makers due to the controversy and that will affect the forum as a whole. It would be nice if LHR would do something on the software side that would protect the patterns from infringements (they are the ones in full control).

As far as a rating system I think it would also be a bad idea. If you look at a pattern in designer software you can tell how it will carve and no need to rate a person work.

Definitely a double edge sword, and just hope we don't get cut.

liquidguitars
02-03-2011, 08:05 PM
I feel what Johnny is doing is good thing by organizing the cluttered mess that we have created, and maybe it's something LHR should be doing but heck I can see their thinking as well if someone else want to do it why not.



Lynn has opened up the pattern category's now... I realy don't have a major issue overall and the Internet has a way sorting it's self out. Maybe he could donate the money he raises on our patterns back to the community..

Ike
02-03-2011, 08:10 PM
I am going to say my peace! I share patterns when I can and I encourage others to do the same. Not to take money from the commercial pattern makers, but it help those who do not have the money or did not find what they were looking for! Recently I saw a pattern I made used that ruined the project and really made me feel bad. I take it seriously and understand the concept garbage in, garbage out! So rating the patterns will not make me do better..... quite the opposite!

I am a bit put off not having a choice or even offered a choice of wanting a non CW pattern site. I don't mean the choice of being belittled for not wanting our patterns in the site! I mean doing what Doug did with the CD and taking a poll. Of course we are continually being told of how the majority of the forum is trilled and so happy! So I am sure it would have been approved! The thing I don't recall anybody asking for the site? I do recall it being volunteered. Volunteered to start, maintain and fund the site.

Then 3 members(really more then 3) names never mentioned, but like Brandon said, "we all just didn't fall off the turnip truck!' we know who it was directed towards! These same people who without fail are there for us with "FREE" patterns we need! Patterns that are of high quality I only wish I could make.

I appreciate all the pattern makers from the members who sell us patterns way below what they are really worth to the members who share and ask nothing in return! That's what makes this forum so great! I looked forward to who needed help and seeing if I could help, by advice help finding answers or patterns to even needing to talk! However these days I find myself not wanting to visit the forum.

Wow it is pretty sad how it doesn't seem like anybody cares we will be losing the few free patterns makers who contributed the most patterns! It has been fun while it lasted I will miss the community...

PS if anybody is interested in contacting me please PM and I will give you my e-mail address. I have removed all my patterns from the forum and will not be posting anymore. Nor do I want anymore of my patterns in the website. I am taking a break from the forum.

PCW
02-03-2011, 08:19 PM
Lynn has opened up the pattern category's now... I realy don't have a major issue overall and the Internet has a way sorting it's self out. Maybe he could donate the money he raises on our patterns back to the community..

I know LG but when someone uploads a pattern it should be required that there be relevant name accompanied by a jpg. Lynn is doing a fine job but what about what's already here. To get the pattern sharing tread strait it will be a big undertaking. We created a mess. <smile>

Hell maybe hire Jonny....

Jonny
02-03-2011, 09:05 PM
Lets all stop for a minute. Consider the facts. Just the facts, not our individual perceptions. The concept of straightening out the "paperclip" is a good idea. No one can dispute that. Having high quality previews of patterns, good searchability, these are good things. All I did was take this a step farther, hack an open-source photo gallery script, and trim it all out to deliver patterns from YOU to YOU.

A month ago, while being reunited with my teenage son Matthew (after 8 years totally apart), I showed him the machine, then we scrambled to find something for him to carve. We browsed together through the paperclip, back and forth, wasting about 2 hours. That wasn't the catalyst for me as I'd thought many times before about doing something with the patterns in the "paperclip", but it was the straw that broke the camel's back. My son and I talked last week on the phone, and after looking at CWPatterns.com, he has a list of things to carve. Without fanfare, without having to trudge through zips, he found what he wanted, and that's how the site works.

To the few naysayers: Come on. I've spent about $600.00 so far, cash, working on this project. THAT'S what the donation link is for. Personally, I have over 100 hours involved. That's ONE HUNDRED HOURS. Tack on the dozens of hours that others have taking screenshots, and you've got yourself a real job. None of us care about that, but cash is cash. My first post outlines the possible donations. Get past it, don't donate, whatever. If, by some miracle, more money comes in than went out, we'll have a raffle for free bits, donate to charity, work with LHR to doa giveaway, something. I'm NOT trying to PROFIT from the donations. I've had a blast working on this, listening to you all, and making something that can be a USEFUL tool for all of us. This is to be an ONGOING thing, and as we add features, sometimes it will cost money. If the paperclip works for a few of you, great. But the rest of us, the VAST majority, want to be able to use tools that are STANDARD in 2011. Search, browse, view before you install, and have it all quick fast and now.

Be reasonable folks. This has been beaten long enough. BJB if you don't like it, don't go there, don't post patterns on the fourms, whatever makes you happy. I'd hate to see anyone, ANYONE at all, you BJB or anyone else, disengage from participation simply because they see someone's patterns copied to a database for the same people to use, but seriously man, don't try to drag us all down. You've got the wrong idea. Plain and simple. LG, what can I do to get yoiu to bury this hatchet of animosity? You clearly have some issue. What is it? Explain yourself in detail so we may address it openly. I hope we can get it all out, because God knows I'd love to chat about how you get those swim-in-me finishes on those guitars.

So far, 3 people have donated a total of $60.00. That's awesome, and it shows that a lot of people really do appreciate and like the site. Most donate buttons are dead links that never, EVER see a click. Thanks so much to everyone for such a great hobby, such consideration, and for the collective passion and drive that make this *&#$^*&@^&$$% machine what it is.

eelamb
02-03-2011, 10:04 PM
I have been sitting here for about 47 minutes, thinking of what I wanted to say. I am told if I do not want patterns I make on a private web site do not post them here. Ok I will not post patterns I make here anymore. Jonny I hope you are a man of your word when you say email you and you will remove patterns I have created. There are still quite a few currently on your site that are mine. I will send you a list, and I will monitor the site for awhile and inform you when patterns of mine is listed. Last count I have made about 150 patterns, some good soom really bad, and the community stood by me through them all, accepting the good along with the bad, thank you. All I ask is if you know you have a pattern made by me, please do not post it here.

judgejrt
02-03-2011, 11:15 PM
WAITING ON BANK CONFIRMATION ON NEW PAYPAL ACCT., IF YOU WILL E-MAIL ME AN ADDRESS I will mail you a donation JUDGEJRT@YAHOO.COM (JUDGEJRT@YAHOO.COM) APPECIATE WHAT YOUR DOING

bjbethke
02-04-2011, 05:49 AM
Somehow I do not think we all just fell off the turnip cart here, BJB has donated a ton of patterns over the years I have a feeling the he probably will think twice now as will I. Why? well now that Lynn has category's for patterns I consider moving our "freeware MPC's" as not necessary. I like to also state that John telling us how hard it is to build a website over and over does not make me feel any better. It's nice to visit a place that has options.. but it's also natural to protect the community from spam or redirection. lets be honest if Johny made the patterns himself we would not be having any reservations.

I really want to thank you for this message and your insight to the turnip!!! Most of my patterns might be gourds, but I have now purchased a program named LightWave 8, I downloaded all the videos, and then my Computer Crashed…. I can not afford the 10 version yet. But I do have the 4 CD’s so I truly own that program. Now I need to make my Arkansas fiddle, making the thing is easy, learning how to make a true noise with it that Jesus would like may be some more learning. Can you play the things you make???
Up and running now, BJB

liquidguitars
02-04-2011, 11:33 AM
Lightwave is one of the oldest 3D program made.. it started on the Amiga platform in the 80's all of the vfx's work on B5, Star trek starting with Ds9 and Voyager, Enterprise, Battlestar galactica, firefly just to name a few was rendered and animated relavent to patternmakers 3D modeled.
so building a true 3D violin is not that hard.. yes I play the instruments I make, I know exactly what I want in playability and the tone department..


here is a rendering I made in lightwave with carbon fiber I would like to have one made like this..

http://www.liquidguitars.com/assets/images/CarbonR04.jpg[


after lightwave

http://www.liquidguitars.com/assets/images/ElectricViolinWallR001.jpg

cnsranch
02-04-2011, 01:54 PM
OK, my turn….

Those of you who know me know that I can’t keep my mouth shut, so here goes….

You need to know that when I say “we”, “our” “us”, etc., that I’m not necessarily speaking for myself, and I’m certainly not speaking for everyone, but I’m pretty sure I’m speaking for “some” of “us”. So, don’t attack me personally if “some” of “you” don’t agree with what I have to say.

First of all Jonny, I think your website is great – takes pattern sharing to a whole new level – it’s the bomb. I wish everyone would jump on board and get involved up to their neckties in support. Unfortunately, there’s some pretty significant pushback, and from some pretty active members of the Forum. Trick is to figure out why there’s pushback, and either eliminate the reasons for the pushback, or do away with your site.

IMHO, I believe the pushback comes down to two factors –

Control, and trust. Some are concerned with losing control, and others simply don’t trust your motives, Jonny. Sorry, it is what it is.

Jonny, you’re obviously a pretty smart guy, so I’m going to assume you’re smart enough to know that you don’t know everything – especially about this Forum, and the people who make it go.

Granted, LHR created this Forum, but make no mistake about it, it has become what it is because of those who participate in it – now, and those who were active in the past. This is our Forum, (with some pretty heavy oversight from LHR and the Moderators), and everyone is welcome to become a part of it, benefit from it, learn from it, and “own it” so to speak. So long as we treat each other with respect, we don’t complain, and we’re not disingenuous with one another, we’re a part of the “club” (these “rules” aren’t written down anywhere I know of, but you kind of figure them out as you go along). Make no mistake about it – the minute someone starts to trash-talk the machine or its software, or disrespects LHR or members of the Forum, they’re out – either by way of other members not willing to help them when they need help, or by being banned by the Mods altogether (it has to be really bad to get banned, but it has happened).

Collectively, we here on this Forum love to share – we share our experiences, we share our skills, we share our patterns, our projects, we share everything – and we do it without expecting anything in return.

That’s not really true. There are some ulterior motives in our sharing.

We like to share our projects because we like to get stroked occasionally on how creative we are.
We like to share our patterns because it feels good when others use them.
We like to share our experiences because we know how it feels to thrash a flexshaft, and it feels good to know we saved someone from that feeling when we’ve helped them from burning one up.

But mostly, we like to share because we know it will come back to us ten-fold – we know that our sharing will result in “pay-back”.

As limited as my knowledge is, I know that I’ve helped a few folks over the last few years, and because of my helping, I also know that everyone is more than willing to help me when I need it (and that happens a lot).

I’ve rarely created a project without someone else’s help, either by way of their helping me fix an mpc, or by using one of their patterns, or simply carving one of their projects altogether. (Even though I have never sold a project I’ve made with the CarveWright), those who help me don’t care if I’m selling my projects; they don’t care if I use one of their patterns and make a profit in the process; it’s all part of what we do, and how we do it.

I would, quite humbly, like to think I’ve earned some respect around here. Earned it, not expected it. I’d also like to think that I’ve earned the trust of those around here, and they know that I won’t abuse that trust. Finally, I’d like to think that I’m a welcomed member of “the club” (and I’m quite proud of all of that). But I also know that if I breach any of that, I’ll get dropped like a Whopper at a Wendy’s Convention.

All due respect, but you’re a web developer by trade. You knew what you were getting into when you started this. You knew (or at least had a good idea) how much time and effort such an undertaking would involve. Now you want donations to recover some of the $600 and 100 hours you have in this.

Do you think that the guys with 2,000, 3,000, even over 4,000 posts don’t have time in this?

How about the guys that post their phone number at the bottom of their profile so we can call them and they can walk us through an issue?

My friend, you haven’t even made a dent in what the likes of Al Who, Michael Tyler, Brandon, Kenm810, FWHarris (to name but a few), and any one of the Moderators on this Forum have contributed to this Forum, in real time and money they’ve spent to make this what it is.

With the exception of the occasional Moderator who gets a little testy at times, not one of these guys has complained, or asked for anything in return (other than contributing for the greater good – sounds altruistic, but true).

There’s no question that this Forum can benefit from your website, but I don’t think you understand just how much you need this Forum. Do what you want, but if you don’t earn their trust - if you proclaim transparency, and offer to brainstorm together to figure out how to fund the maintenance of your site if the need arises, but instead put up a paypal link for “donations” in the first few weeks of the site’s existence without anyone’s input, when you tell us that this is easier than you thought it was going to be, but then talk about how hard it is, when you tell us that your site’s not going away, and then tell members of the Forum if they don’t like it, they can just not post to the very Forum they helped to create, when you appear to be just a little too pushy for a guy who’s only been around for a month or so, you’ll soon learn that there’s a price to be paid. I’m pretty sure you don’t care about all of that – but you might want to think about it a little.

You have to understand that there are some here who have been wondering “what’s in it for Jonny”. Sure appears that the paypal link is the first thing – maybe wresting control over every free pattern that’s been developed and contributed by us is the second. I am not suggesting that you have ulterior motives, what I’m saying is that you haven’t exactly put yourself in a position where you’re above reproach

Again, do what you want – you’ve made it clear that you can, and others have confirmed that. You want our support, first understand that you really need it, then ask for it.

You want to find yourself like the Whopper, you’re headed in the right direction.

But that’s just me.

I feel better.

Jonny
02-04-2011, 02:24 PM
cnsranch's indian name is posts-with-many-words! Ok - some insightful info - I'll skip around in my response and try to acknowledge the high points...

The control and trust thing. You've got a point, but what is anyone losing control over? There are a few that want to keep their "shared" patterns to themselves, and that's fine and been worked out. For every complaint, I've received 20 positive notes, so I think collectively, we're at least somewhat on the right track. Anytime an online community experiences something very new, different, or out of the ordinary, there are always a few that kick, scream, rant, and tell apocoliptic tales of doom. The dust will settle here as it has elsewhere, each time it's happened.

That donate button. That's there for costs, not time. My time is, was, and will always be free. When I require outside help and have to pay, then it's a cost thing. Again - I don't want anything for my time, and yes, I knew what I was getting into.

The transparancy is there - I'd outlined costs to date, mentioned each thing and gave a total. I've even posted the dollar amount recieved to date. Donate, don't donate, everybody donate, nobody donate, the site will continue regardless. There will be continued costs here and there, so if the donate button takes the sting out of it, great. But make no mistake - it'll never, ever, come close to covering real costs, so anyone that thinks I'm gonna retire or even actually ever profit at all off these damn patterns is, well, not exactly seeing the real picture.

Need the support? In the first page or two of this thread I said exactly that. Read up on it and you'll see. I told everyone that the only way this would fly is if people got on board, and I said it early on.

Make no mistake - my last post asking people to get along and get together wasn't out of desperation or dispair. I'm not emotionally affected either way, and won't be bothered personally if a few keep kicking and taking things out of context. That's just how some folks are. I'm confident that as the site moves forward, more and more people will come to rely on it for pattern searching, sharing, and will see that it's a valuable tool for us all to use.

Some of you aren't seeing the big picture. Here's one example. The site already gets thousands of page views per day, so could, in theory, be a GREAT place for some of you to advertise your business. You pay for that. We take the money, turn it into bits, paid patterns, LHR credit, something like that, and we have maybe a pattern making contest and post em here, we all vote, and the winner hits the LHR store, compliments of all of us. Meanwhile, the people that paid for ads are getting good value for their money. Do NOT repeat NOT take that last paragraph out of context. This wasn't a 'plan' or an 'outline' of anything, just a random thought. Wouldn't it be cool if it worked out like that? We all get access to the pattern submissions, the advertisor gets more traffic, and the winner gets some stuff for their machine. The possibilities are endless, and I'm all ears.

lawrence
02-05-2011, 09:26 AM
I've been watching this and related threads with great interest and have been waiting for what I thought was the appropriate amount of discretion and forethought before posting my thoughts...

...It seems to me that this subject is becoming dangerously close to unproductive from all sides of this conversation. Heels are dug in and the biggest casualty could be the new visitor to this forum to whom it may appear that we cannot have effective discourse.

Please folks, lets keep things friendly in public. PM's and emails are a more appropriate forum for any required beratement or legal counsel on private property matters. This keeps our dirty laundry in appropriate places and does not discourage others from sharing here.

I truly DO appreciate all the work and effort put in by all the partys involved.
Thanks in advance,
Lawrence

Capt Bruce
02-05-2011, 04:59 PM
A hearty second to Lawrence's motion.
Praise in public, criticise or correct in private. It also makes it easier for two parties to explain their feelings with out the remarks being interpreted by others before full understanding is reached. Sometimes that understanding will only come to agreeing to disagree but we can do it in good faith and keep working for the common good here on the Forum. Just my thoughts.

Jonny
02-05-2011, 05:03 PM
Good advice and well stated. Thanks all for the emails and PMs with ideas, suggestions, and positive feedback. For my part, I'm going to try to limit my posts in this thread to news and updates, announcements, and answering questions.

gregsolano
02-06-2011, 12:46 AM
the queen of hearts pattern download link is not working on the CW patterns website. Just to let you know.

AskBud
02-06-2011, 07:37 AM
the queen of hearts pattern download link is not working on the CW patterns website. Just to let you know.
The queen pattern, in the pattern sharing depot, appears fine. I'm using 1.177.
AskBud

Jonny
02-06-2011, 07:38 AM
the queen of hearts pattern download link is not working on the CW patterns website. Just to let you know.Fixed, thanks for the info!

badger
02-11-2011, 08:29 AM
Wow!!, been gone awhile , work kept me really busy, to cold to work in the shop so havent had much time.

To Jonny, I think what is putting off most people and now almost me too is your directness towards those of us that have been on these forms for a really long time and you come around and come in with a decent concept. The problem is you then turn around and start ordering those that had posted alot of nice patterns to either get with your program or dont post.

Why should I have to spend time I dont have to go look at your site see if my patterns are over there and then tell you to take them off. You have forced a workload on individuals that whether or not they liked your idea at first might not now because you are forcing them into a corner. We all know no one likes to be forced into a corner.


Heres a thought. Dont force them. If they would like to go along with your idea Im sure they have their patterns already to go since they made them. If they want to participate in your idea they can email them to you direct with screenshots already done. That saves you time and shows you that they dont mind thier patterns on your site.

All Ive seen by reading through here is good people getting split down the middle and some pulling out all together and to me thats a loss of future patterns that is not ok in any means. No one wants to be forced to spend their time looking through pages and pages of patterns to see if theirs is there or not. I dont either since number one I dont have the time now. I thought maybe I could help in the past but work took me away from that.

So at this point dont post any of mine either and have a heart dont force me to have to look through all those patterns to tell you which one to move I dont have that time to do it.

Rocky
02-16-2011, 05:28 PM
Let's play nice...... :-)

hess
02-20-2011, 11:55 AM
I want to tell you all a story.

I have been away for a bit and just got to reading this website deal.

Not long ago a man was upset with CW so he started his own site. Grand ideas were everywhere.
A few of us followed him to his site. We joined in and some thought things were going well we offered ideas and more. We got to know each other very well.

Then a snag..... One day the owner of the site did not agree with what some of the others felt. Kind of like here when we tick off a mod, but unlike here, the owner removed the site. Just took it down all the things donated to the site were lost to those who the owner was upset with.

What if that happens here with this new web site?

Right now the owner loves CW and the forum. What would happen if that changed and he lost interest or just got good and peed off with members or CW?
Would we be sitting in the same boat as those who lost the site.?

What if we had donated funds to help out.?
I can see there has been lots of work done on the site. Have to say it doea seem a better way to find pats. But also have to say that fact is if one person wants to pull the site they can.

I have stopped coming around cause those that would post most of the pats dont anymore or I just dont know where to look


In a prefect world CW would back the site so that it could no just diapper then be sold later to someone who wanted to sell patterns. I In no way feel this is what is happening here, but crap happens

Over on the IAP site A lady asked for help she had $ issues and wanted to learn the art of Turning. The member are much like here most always willing to help. Well they helped and help with $ .Eq, Blanks. kits in to the late hundreds to thousand..... Then someone checked it was a scam!! many venders and other gave out greatly and were taken. The fact is we live in a differnt world than most of us grew up in. Things happen

Rocky
02-20-2011, 01:50 PM
Hess provides an interesting view, and some good points, regarding the "pattern web site". Of course, all views are welcome. I may not agree with all of the web sites features/rules/guidelines, but it is a good resource. I, for one, hope it continues to be updated.

bjwisdom
03-05-2011, 08:09 AM
No new patterns on Jack's site in a couple weeks. And, no one is really posting patterns on this forum anymore. I had a feeling it would turn out like this.

jaroot
03-06-2011, 09:39 AM
Wow! I'm gone from the forum for a few months and civil war seems to have broken out. I found the pattern site and thought that this is way more convenient that searching through the endless posts to find a pattern. I even found the only pattern that I've uploaded listed on the site.

I'm thinking that if you upload patterns to share then this is an excellent thing.

If you upload patterns just for a pat on the back then maybe this isn't such a good thing.

There are perhaps some legal issues. My pattern is a good example. This is not my creative work. It is a Probe rendering of a Chinese toy. I'm not sure if that makes it original, a derivative work or an out and out copy. And who is responsible for the violation if one exists. Me for probing, LHR for creating the forum or the new webmaster who took it from the "private" forum and published it to the world. You know, what I say to my friends I say to my friends and it may not be appropriate to say to the world.

I'm also unsure about the ownership of the patterns. If I post it to the forum is it still mine? Or does it become public domain. Or does it become the property of LHR? I believe that if I post a trademarked logo as a pattern here I can be pursued legally by the trademark owner but in the "privacy" of the LHR forum the odds are extremely low. Posted to the world however I believe opens up a bit more liability.

I personally don't have a problem with my patterns being on the website but I think that it should be my option to upload them there and not have them "borrowed" from here.

I have a couple of "projects" that I've posted to the forum and I wouldn't care if they ended up on the website. I would be nice if there were some way to see how many times a pattern or project got downloaded (hey, I need an ego stroke once in a while just like everybody else).

As far as the donations part goes... If the guy makes a few cents from it big deal. Donate, don't donate what ever. Now if there comes a time when a "donation" is required or a monthly paid "membership" is needed to access the site or patterns then that is a different story.

I think that this is a little different than the eBay guy but maybe I'm too naive.

Well anyway I for one will continue on the forum as I have in the past, not that my contributions are world changing by any stretch of the imagination, and let the chips fall where they may.

Thanks to all of you who contribute to "my" success with the machine. And I do mean all of you.

BTW are the smileys ever going to get fix???

natebrown510
03-10-2011, 11:20 PM
I'm having a problem downloading patterns. Could it be because I use a Mac? Every pattern I have attempted to download brings up a very long page of symbols.

AskBud
03-10-2011, 11:58 PM
I'm having a problem downloading patterns. Could it be because I use a Mac? Every pattern I have attempted to download brings up a very long page of symbols.
I don't have a MAC, but let's see if I can point you in the right direction.

It sounds as if the "File Association" is not correct for the downloaded pattern files.
On a PC, you would Right Click the file in question, and "Open With" GUI. There should also be an option there, that says "Always Open with this program (or some such message).

You should also be able to open Designer first, and then use that screen to open the new download.
AskBud

lawrence
03-11-2011, 09:26 AM
I don't have a MAC, but let's see if I can point you in the right direction.
On a PC, you would Right Click the file in question, AskBud

Just one problem with right clicking... no right mouse button on some macs!

I know you said "on a PC" but I was just being obtuse because my funnybone got unexplainably tickled... thanks for always helping out those of us in need Bud--it is VERY much appreciated by me and many others
Lawrence

mtylerfl
03-11-2011, 11:47 AM
Just one problem with right clicking... no right mouse button on some macs!...
Lawrence

Hi Lawrence,

Just a FYI...right-click is not a problem for Mac users. See the following I copied from the CarveBuddy website...

"Mac users - Cntrl-Click (hold down the control key as you click) is the equivalent to PC right-clicking. (This functionality has been in place since OS 8.5 and higher.) You can also purchase a Mac mouse that has a true right-click function - it's called the Mighty Mouse made by Apple. "

natebrown510
03-11-2011, 11:39 PM
Thanks Bud, I tried "right clicking" before posting and didn't see anything about downloading the file. I tried again and sure enough there it was the whole time. Everything's good now. Thanks again.