Pattern CD Poll

[dbfletcher]

I think we are starting to see that even if this endevour is worthwhile, it probably wont be a simple matter.

With that being said, let start a poll to help determin if we should just let the previous threads die, or if there is enought interest to continue to try and work thru any/all issues.

[juergen]

yes to pattern CD

[oldjoe]

I voted yes but not sure what you are talking about.

[atauer]

I'm not going to actively participate in this thread, but would like to share some insight that may not have been thought of before...

A pattern sharingcd/dvd would be a great idea, but there are numerous things that you must consider.

1. Who would be in charge of obtaining all patterns, storing said patterns, and creating the discs?

2. With the amount of new patterns being added, you would have to have a way of distinguishing which patterns were newly added and which ones were old, and then create new discs with said patterns.

3. The costs of creating said discs could get expensive.

All in all, I personally like the idea. Unfortunately though, there are numerous obstacles that you would have to tackle to achieve something like this, and unless you are truly motivated, you will more than likely encounter numerous issues.

Again, not trying to shoot down the idea, just wanted to make sure you guys are aware of the obstacles you would have to deal with, and those obstacles are just the tip of the iceberg.

[robbrigg2]

Though I voted yes, I do feel that Alex is right. It would be a very difficult endeavor. My original reason for posting about the Ebay Sales was to ask people to remember the "honor" code. I personally share patterns for people to use free of charge for a reason. Most times i am trying a new technique and I want to get feedback. Sometimes it's in direct response to a members problems. I don't care who uses them or for what purpose ACCEPT for turning around and selling them back to the very person or people I intended to help in the first place.

[Digitalwoodshop]

I replied don't care... I am not interested in having 6 thousand patterns in memory. I am interested in being able to look for a new pattern that I need QUICK and give the customer a chance to pick.

I needed a Lion pattern the other day. Went to the Pattern Depot and found 26 choices and sent it to the customer. I got a reply for the Lion 2 and purchased it. Had the download in a few minutes. The the part where I activate the license ran into the usual error cycle. An hour later still no License... Gave up and will try it again today....

I am doing something wrong with the user id or password... Do it 40 times the same way and finally it takes.... Makes me wonder if it is something between servers at LHR.

Made a dozen attempts today still no luck... Will resort to calling LHR...

AL

Update: Called LHR and had it done in 30 seconds... Thanks LHR... Old Dog... Need to be smarter than the computer...

[fwharris]

My concern/thoughts on this is that it will take a lot of time to put this together if one is going to sort out all of the bad patterns that are really not good for carving. There are a lot of patterns in the share section with a lot of good ones to be had. If the bad are not sorted out the I think the CD would not be a good thing. When I first got started with the forum I would down load and save the pattern or mpc with out looking at it first. Found that I had a boat load of stuff that was not the best and spent a lot of time going back to get rid of them. Now when one is posted I open it first to see and if good then save.. if not it goes away...

I do understand why this idea was started do to the guy on ebay!!

[JDPratt]

I would venture to guess that most of the "yes" responses are from people like me who are not tech saavy enough to make most of these patterns ourselves. This (a CD) would make it easier to look up patterns for use in our projects on our computers. although, I do see relevence in the concerns posted by others. With that said, anytime I need a pattern, I have been able to go to the members here and either find what I am looking for or they have been able to make me a pattern very quickly. I always like the word free, but at the same time I would not hesitate to pay for the work others put into making patterns (especially quality ones). If there is a huge interest in the free patterns, wouldn't it be easier to organize the ones on the forum in an easier search method (grouped by type or subject matter). Liek I said, I am not a tech guy so I don't know how hard this would be to do.

John

[Pratyeka]

Being a veteran "Second Life" resident, this subject is similar to the creation of textures and virtual objects and their distribution. A lot of those are tagged as "freebies" and anyone can copy them. There is also a lot of shady people packaging those freebies and selling them to "newbies", who don't know any better.
What I'm driving at is there is just no sure way of preventing the selling of freely available stuff by people looking to make a quick buck. So it's really up to the buyer to do his/her homework and research the best place to get patterns.
What we on this forum can do is "educate" as many newbies as possible about what free patterns are and where to get them.

To come back to the Second Life experience, many groups have attempted to organise freebie distribution, but the sheer number of freebies available and the time required to collect and keep track of them quickly overwhelmed them. The few who still distribute freebies only package "donated" freebies and released them once a week with a time stamp. They have a donation box, equivalent to Salvation Army collection box, where people can drop their freebies.

The equivalent process for our patterns could be a web address where we could upload our patterns, then once a week all received patterns would be archived into a zip file and moved to a download page. this way the number of patterns would stay manageable and the bulk of the work is done by the users. Anyone can download the zip files, open them and sort the pattern themselves.

[dougmsbbs]

The more I think about it, the more impractical I think a CD is. It would soon be outdated, and you would still need to take the time to search the forum to find new ones. I would think making a ZIP file online available would be easier to keep up on. All someone would have to do is every week or two add any new patterns to the file. Or ZIP them up by date, say by month, and post that online somewhere. So to keep your collection up to date all you would have to do is download the newest file. I know this does not take care of people on slow dial-up connections, but at least they could download smaller files at one time.
I also think it would be nice to have a thumbnail image of each pattern to go along with them. Much easier to browse a directory looking at images than to load each and every one up in designer...
Just my thoughts....

[dbfletcher]

The more I think about it, the more impractical I think a CD is. It would soon be outdated, and you would still need to take the time to search the forum to find new ones. I would think making a ZIP file online available would be easier to keep up on. All someone would have to do is every week or two add any new patterns to the file. Or ZIP them up by date, say by month, and post that online somewhere. So to keep your collection up to date all you would have to do is download the newest file. I know this does not take care of people on slow dial-up connections, but at least they could download smaller files at one time.
I also think it would be nice to have a thumbnail image of each pattern to go along with them. Much easier to browse a directory looking at images than to load each and every one up in designer...
Just my thoughts....

In my mind, this can all be handled programatically. I havent started the coding yet, but I do not see any show stoppers yet. I can also have it kick out an "update zip" for what ever patterns have been added since the last time I generate. I see the popularity of this idea has been steadily dropping, but I still think it has enought merit to go forward. This probably wont be a high priority for me, but I will probably start coding over the next few weeks. I dont think it should be a big deal.. the hardest part will be seeing what info I can get from the forum postings in an effort to have it autocatigorize and index based on criteria such as add date, author, format, etc.

Does anyone know if there is an API (application program interface) for designer, if so, I can also have it automatically generate screenshots for each pattern. There are other ways to acomplish this, but the API is the most straight forward and easiest to code.

[cestout]

I vote no because it would be impractical and soon be obsolete because new free patterns and projects keep showing up. What we need to do is keep the pattern sharing thread for sharing patterns and projects and limit comments. A better idea, I have posted this previously, would be to add a pattern and project area so each shared pattern or project would be a new thread. That would make searches easier and allow comments on each item to be related to that item.
Clint

[Ike]

I too voted no, I make a comment more of a joke, better yet we can make a CD and give it away for free! But thinking it over and reading other member's post I agree with ever changing patterns everyday it would become a daily job to keep up! Plus from my understanding of GNU it seems to be more of a honor bound agreement without and real legal binding. So I agree with Pratyeka it will not stop guys like the e-bay guy from making and selling a CD.

I can only seeing this hurting us in the long run as we continue to try to involve LHR. If we continue to push it and make it a legal issue I see losing the ability of sharing patterns and possibly the forum. This is my opinion, so I suggest as mentioned to continue sharing patterns in the pattern sharing thread without conversation......(LOL!) Anyway I am sorry some have dial up, but they still can download a pattern!

Anyway that is my 2 cents worth! PS, Doug I think the ideal was great and the intent is genuine, but the application impractical.

Ike

[jpaluck]

Agree with pratyeka...not gonna stop the e-bay guy...I e-mailed e-bay from my sellers account they said they would look into it...I agree the disk would become dated fast...website and downloads all organized would be the way to go, like doug said with thumbnails...even that would be a large undertaking...sites are fairly cheap...I pay like 100 bucks a year I think for hosting or a little cheaper...it's the maintence that would be a nightmare..or a lot of work for no pay. Honestly, the reason I don't add the patterns I share here on my site also is the laziness factor of uploading the files the pictures and adding them to the page.

My vote was doesn't care.

As far as dial-up-service..or what Ike called it..LOL Hillbilly connection ( love it Ike)...I would be curious how many people are still using that.

[Ike]

Come on John it is the Hillbilly hook up!

Ike

[dbfletcher]

As far as dial-up-service..or what Ike called it..LOL Hillbilly connection ( love it Ike)...I would be curious how many people are still using that.

According to this link (even though it is a little dated), I think the precentage is still pretty high (25% or more). There are also several links that stated the dialup was on the rise again when the economy went south. That kinda makes sense as most people want to be connected but the fastest possible speeds are not always the driving factor. I have several tech friends in large uban areas that still use dial up becuase they refuse to pay ore than there $7 monthly dialup charge. For myself, there is no such thing as too much speed. 100 Mbps broadband just hit my area.... and I though 30 Mbps was pretty snappy.

http://www.internetworldstats.com/am/us.htm

I probably should of added also that even thou 100mbs broadband is available where i live, I can drive 15 miles from my house to more rural areas, and there is no broadband available there.. no dsl, no cable, just good ol POTS. There are some advantages to living in a college town.

[Ike]

According to this link (even though it is a little dated), I think the precentage is still pretty high (25% or more). There are also several links that stated the dialup was on the rise again when the economy went south. That kinda makes sense as most people want to be connected but the fastest possible speeds are not always the driving factor. I have several tech friends in large uban areas that still use dial up becuase they refuse to pay ore than there $7 monthly dialup charge. For myself, there is no such thing as too much speed. 100 Mbps broadband just hit my area.... and I though 30 Mbps was pretty snappy.

http://www.internetworldstats.com/am/us.htm

I probably should of added also that even thou 100mbs broadband is available where i live, I can drive 15 miles from my house to more rural areas, and there is no broadband available there.. no dsl, no cable, just good ol POTS. There are some advantages to living in a college town.

Doug I know my parents live in an upper class area on 5 acres parcels and in the back of the property there is a neighborhood with DSL! My Dad does have satellite internet so that is an option for some? Now for those who don't want to pay the price for faster internet that is their choice!

So where do we go from here? Like I said I voted no, but it does not mean I won't help if I can.

Ike

[dbfletcher]

Doug I know my parents live in an upper class area on 5 acres parcels and in the back of the property there is a neighborhood with DSL! My Dad does have satellite internet so that is an option for some? Now for those who don't want to pay the price for faster internet that is their choice!

So where do we go from here? Like I said I voted no, but it does not mean I won't help if I can.

Ike

When I get some time, I'll start on the coding for an automated process. I would think it should only take a few hours for the programming and if there are no major snags I'll share my results for suugestions/refinements for anyone who is interested.

[Ike]

Funny this started out as a crusade to stop a guy making a buck using freely given patterns. I wonder are we upset because we did not intend for the free patterns to be marketed? Or that we didn't think of it first! Maybe this guy has the same intent to help others that have slow internet or computer crashed etc.?

When I make a pattern for a member often they need it because they are making a gift. The other time it is for a customer and the member makes money from the free pattern. I think I can safely say we agree that is alright? But when we openly give a pattern to the requesting member we all know it is not just for that member! So I agree it is morally wrong to resale the collections of free patterns, but it is not illegal unless it contains commercial patterns.

You know there is nothing stopping this guy from copyrighting our patterns and then we couldn't use them. Reminds me of the days of squatters unclaimed land a person could claim it as their own! I have given things away before and the person turned around and sold the gift. I was disappointed, but it was theirs to what they wanted.

So instead of making this a big legal issue, I say go ahead make the CD by request and charge a fair amount I believe this should also include the person's time and keep it in the forum family. I suggest starting a CD thread and the members add the patterns with the statement this pattern is for personal use and for the forum CD only and may not be reproduced or sold by any other source and/ or person. That way with a CD thread by posting a pattern it is giving the maker's permission to use.

Anyway now that is 2cents more from me!

Ike

[Pratyeka]

You know there is nothing stopping this guy from copyrighting our patterns and then we couldn't use them. Ike

That is one major point! But unlikely to happen because of the lazy nature of those who steal the work of others for selling...

The only way one can protect himself is to document his work by saving all pattern files in a safe place with date of creation. this way you have a legal proof that you are the creator.

Most of us who have given away patterns never thought of selling them, either because we don't think they are worth much or we just don't have time to go through the process. What is upsetting is someone else profiting from our labor without permission. But that is the nature of digital property, they can be infinitely duplicated. If someone could come up with a digital file that cannot be duplicated without the permission of the owner, then that would be another thing.

If only LHR would allow us to register our pattern with them so we could use their licensing system, but we do the selling ourselves (personal website). Maybe LHR could charge user fees, based on the number of patterns we register.

[jpaluck]

I am no programmer but I wonder if this could be easily resoved by LHR doing some programming on their end and instute the same portal they use when you upoload patterns for sale to their site as a vendor. Then create a place on the forum or their website for free downloads of patterns with Author's name and permissions and thumb nails of the patterns. Zbrush has this on their site where you can download alphas, textures and materials for free created by their users...very organized w pictures etc. That way a person could pic and choose what they want quickly and easily

[dbfletcher]

I am no programmer but I wonder if this could be easily resoved by LHR doing some programming on their end and instute the same portal they use when you upoload patterns for sale to their site as a vendor. Then create a place on the forum or their website for free downloads of patterns with Author's name and permissions and thumb nails of the patterns. Zbrush has this on their site where you can download alphas, textures and materials for free created by their users...very organized w pictures etc. That way a person could pic and choose what they want quickly and easily

Not to sling mud, but considering we have only been asking for all LHR parts to be listed in the Carvewright store since 2008, I woudnt hold my breath.

[jpaluck]

Doug...probably right..LOL but I know from your other posts I beleive you are quite knowledgble on programming....it would be fairly easy on their part right? and not super time consuming?...I might be wrong but that would be my guess based on the way as a pattern vendor you upload things to CW to sell. wouldn't prevent a guy like on e-bay..actually would make it easier for him to download and cherry pick the good ones with ease...but would make it easy for all who use the forum and it would actually be a nice selling feature for LHR to promote to help sell machines..their are some really nice patterns there and some that are so so but it would sure make it easy to look at and search for. I actually see it as an oppurtunity for LHR...no other site I have been on cnc wise shares as much as this forum..why not capitalize on it. All the things loaded to the zbrush site are free and made by members..they even have quality control as far as weather the texture whatever is good enough an meets the paremeter here is the link for an example http://www.pixologic.com/zbrush/downloadcenter/ and all free. would be a nice selling feature for LHR and a nice user's feature

[bjbethke]

You can already do that; just download the paper clip with PDF it beings up every image-PTN and MPC and if a great person wants to give the ultimate “MPW” it is there also. No problem with dial up, patterns and MPC will take time. I posted a PDF to do that a while back. If you have the pattern editor program you can see if some one is stealing your pattern programs on this forum. Your stuff is coded in the patterns you make.

There are 167 pages to the PDF and 3547 attachments; some are JPEGs (images), PTN's and MPC's and this is only part of them.

All the "Paper Clips" have patterns attached. It would take more than one CD to make the patterns with a screen print.

The PDF loads all the patterns to your Hard drive.

Hope this helps.

[dbfletcher]

I played around last night for a couple of hours and the code fell out fairly easily. The hardest part was it looks like everytime the forum was updated/upgraded the html code changed behind the scenes so I really had to build more of a parser than just a simple extractor. Anyways, one of the by products of this was an excel spreadsheet for me to visualize what I was extracting. I realized this spreadsheet may have some value to the forum members as well so I have posted it here. The "link" colums are active hyperlinks to the associated posts or attachments and I have applied fliters to all of the columns. You can also use this to sort, look at a particualr members posting, andy many other options. I have to look in to why the number of posts doest totally match, but i do know there are a few invlaid links in the forum. Some of them I have filtered but I may not have got them all. I'll look in to the descrepency more in the next few days. I should be able to compile a cd/dvd over the weekend and I'll post a link to the ISO. I'm probably going to organize the CD by Poster or possible by filetype.

I had to zip the excel file in order to upload to the forum

I forgot to mention that the dates should all be correct EXCEPT where the forum list them as "x Weeks old" I dont really have a way to calculate the exact date from that so I just used the date when I do the extraction minus number of weeks *7 days to give me a date. All the other dates I can calculate to within a day.

I also have code to extract the text of the post, but commented it out for the time being becuase I'm not really sure how useful it would be.

[dbfletcher]

I added a new column so you can also filter by attachment type.

[William Blankenship]

Funny this started out as a crusade to stop a guy making a buck using freely given patterns. I wonder are we upset because we did not intend for the free patterns to be marketed? Or that we didn't think of it first! Maybe this guy has the same intent to help others that have slow internet or computer crashed etc.?


I'm for the compilation of a CD of free, quality patterns.

Lets face it. The economy has tanked. People are trying to survive the best way they can. I'm wondering if this ebay guy isn't trying to make a buck any way he can just to survive. If he has a family; I could understand it. It might not be what I would do to survive but I see allot of this sort of thing happening, not just with the CW stuff. People are hurting and will do whatever it takes. It might not be the best approach but his pattern CD does provide patterns to new CW users who might not have, for whatever reason, joined the forum.

Just my two cents, that maybe isn't worth even that......
Bill....

[dbfletcher]

I plan on making my first run this evening. For the initial iso image, Im just going to use simply organization based on filetype then author. Do any of you have a better suggestion for organization?

[gwizpro]

If anyone is interested. The attached is a list of files that are on the eBay CD

[fwharris]

If anyone is interested. The attached is a list of files that are on the eBay CD


Looks like a nice long list.. Noticed several sports and company logos in the list....hmmmmmm

[dbfletcher]

I have finished creating the first trial run of the Gallery CD. It isnt perfect, but it is probably 95% there. I would like to share this iso with a few users to get there comments and feedback. If you are interested in getting a copy and you are comfortable with working iso images and have broadband to be able to download it, please send me a PM. The iso image is approx. 350MB.

In this version, I prepended the attachment ID to all files and replaced any spaces in the filename with an underscore (_). Programatically, it is easier to deail with files without spaces and the attachment ID was required becuase there are where a few duplicate filenames by the same poster which would have overwrote each other if I didnt do something to make the names unique.

I have inlcuded the following text file on the CD. Please feel free to make any changes you feel we need to this as well.

---Start Text ---
This disk and it's contents may be copied and shared but NOT sold.
All files on this disk are from the carvewright user forum. The original authors retain all rights with any patterns or images on this CD.
This CD contains the following number of files from the forum.
BMP - 2
GIF - 14
JPG - 1487
MPC - 821
PDF - 22
PNG - 15
PTN - 896
ZIP - 170

Please visit us at http://forum.carvewright.com/. This CD was created by and for the forum members.
---End Text ---

[Ike]

I have finished creating the first trial run of the Gallery CD. It isnt perfect, but it is probably 95% there. I would like to share this iso with a few users to get there comments and feedback. If you are interested in getting a copy and you are comfortable with working iso images and have broadband to be able to download it, please send me a PM. The iso image is approx. 350MB.

In this version, I prepended the attachment ID to all files and replaced any spaces in the filename with an underscore (_). Programatically, it is easier to deail with files without spaces and the attachment ID was required becuase there are where a few duplicate filenames by the same poster which would have overwrote each other if I didnt do something to make the names unique.

I have inlcuded the following text file on the CD. Please feel free to make any changes you feel we need to this as well.

---Start Text ---
This disk and it's contents may be copied and shared but NOT sold.
All files on this disk are from the carvewright user forum. The original authors retain all rights with any patterns or images on this CD.
This CD contains the following number of files from the forum.
BMP - 2
GIF - 14
JPG - 1487
MPC - 821
PDF - 22
PNG - 15
PTN - 896
ZIP - 170

Please visit us at http://forum.carvewright.com/. This CD was created by and for the forum members.
---End Text ---
Wow Doug I am very impressed! Plus very humbled you showed me this is possible! Of course this isn't too hard pertaining to me! Good job my friend!

Ike

[dbfletcher]

Ike,

I am so thankful this discussion started. After looking at what I have accomplished, I cant believe how much great stuff I missed over the years. I had thought I had at least read every thread once, but apparently not. And often time I remeber seeing something posted but couldnt remember who, when, or where it was. Now it is so much easier to find who originally posted and item and to be able to credit the respective authors when possible. The speadsheet I had posted earlier in this link has been worth it's weight in gold for me so far.

But... with that being said... I realized that there is a ton of other great stuff outside the Sharing gallery. I also realized that it would just be minor tweaks in my code to find every attachment in every post anywhere on the forum. I'm still doing testing on that part.. and have added some intelligence to the code so as not to overwhelm the servers with my requests and to make sure it doesnt interfere with the user communities browesing of the forum.

All I can say is.... stay tuned!

[eelamb]

Doug great job, and yes you desirve a pat on the back. Been many years since I wrote any internet data collection programs, and not sure I could even attempt it now days.

Now for everyone else as Doug said stay tuned, and DOWNLOAD the ISO file from Doug, it is well worth it. Plus lets start putting titles on the post when posting patterns and MPC files as well as images. ( I am guilty of not doing the titles) Makes finding the items so much easier and the images shows what the pattern or MPC file looks like.

[dbfletcher]

as of Jan 10, 2011
There is a total of 28,629 attachments on our forum. They break down as:

bmp - 13
doc - 1
dxf - 8
gif - 359
jpeg - 13
jpg - 19826
mpc - 5438
mpn - 2
pdf - 238
png - 136
ptn - 2142
txt - 5
zip - 448

This represents approx. 2.5 GB of Data (4 CD's or 1/2 of a Data DVD)

[Ducky63]

I've been reading about this CD or now I see CD's. When are they available or how can I get them? I'll be watching the forum for how I can get they & the cost so that I can help pay for your time & things. Thank you.

[dbfletcher]

I've been reading about this CD or now I see CD's. When are they available or how can I get them? I'll be watching the forum for how I can get they & the cost so that I can help pay for your time & things. Thank you.

Good question! I had originally planned on making an iso image of the cd/dvd available, but as I think more about it, I'm not sure I see the advatange of use an iso image over just a zip file. I was hoping to get some feed back from the people who have already downloaded the content before I make it a more public release. There is no cost associated with this if you can download the material.... ie... you have a broadband connection.

Details have not been determined if you need a cd/dvd mailed to you, but I'm sure the cost will not exceed $3-$7 depending on media and shipping preferences. I plan on also posting a monthly (weekly?) zipped update.

[dbfletcher]

The content of the Pattern Sharing Depot compilation and the entire Forum attachment compilation can be downloaded from the following url:

http://www.fletchercs.com/downloads1.shtml

This page is not linked with the rest of my site so if you browse to other pages, there is not a direct link back from any other page. You will have to use the original link again to return to the download page. In addition, the text file in the root folder MUST stay with these collections. These collections may be copied and shared, but it is forbidden to sell anything on these collections in whole or in part. Anything you carve however can be sold or given away at your discretion.

For those of you who had advance knowledge of this link, the .iso's have been removed to avoid confusion.

[Ike]

Wow now I see what you mean if somebody has dial up! I have somewhat fast DSL averages 3424 kbps down and 372 kbps up. Well that is the fastest available for residential service. And it is going to take an hour to download! Again I appreciate your work!

Ike

[Ike]

Doug just unzipped the CD file and it is AWESOME!!!! Great job and wow I am so impressed!

Ike

[dbfletcher]

Doug just unzipped the CD file and it is AWESOME!!!! Great job and wow I am so impressed!

Ike

Which did you download.. the pattern sharing depot of the full forum? There is a ton of great things there.. i love looking at all of Al's (and others) great piece/part photo's one one location.

[want2b]

Doug, really think your idea is great, especially for those of us not at your level of computer expertise. BUT, always seems to be one,
you do realise you have just done all the work for the Pirates? Those who are forum regulars will know about the collection and greatly
appreciate it. The Pirate will probably use it and sell it on Ebay to those who don't use the forum, if they were members they would know
where to find what is shared freely & willing by the others.
Rick H

[dbfletcher]

I had thought of that. If we see anything even resembeling these collections on ebay, I think we have solid ground to get them removed. The files have been encoded in such a way so we can prove ownership.

[eelamb]

Doug I plan to download the DVD file tomorrow when at a customers. They have internet access of 18M and a 3-T1 lines. My little 1.5M just does not cut it here, yet I can not complain, at lest I have DSL in this town of 500. Course I set up the phone company here and it is a lot better than the IDSL I had before.

I agree with you about ownership proof.

[Ike]

Which did you download.. the pattern sharing depot of the full forum? There is a ton of great things there.. i love looking at all of Al's (and others) great piece/part photo's one one location.


Doug I think I did? I unzipped the first file and it took some time to unzip.

Ike

[dbfletcher]

The first one is just the pattern sharing depot (326 megs). The second link is much bigger 2+ gigabytes but contains all attachments posted. If you liked the smaller one, the big one should knock your socks off.

[Ike]

I must have the 326 I have been adding ptn to my library, hey that Ike guy has made a few patterns! Guess I better download the other file! yikes it is going to be a long download even with 3Mb DSL!

Ike

[dbfletcher]

Stay tuned for the January Update zip. I have a little suprise in store.

[CarverJerry]

Ok, well for the reason we are doing all this, there were many people who wrote eBay including myself. This is what eBay told me:

Dear Jerry,

Thank you for writing eBay in regard to your report about a member that
has copied patterns or images from a website Carvewright.

I understand that you believe that another member has copied images from
a website and I apologize for the inconvenience that this matter may
have caused. I will help you with this. Firstly, please accept my
apologies for the delay in responding to your concern, we recently have
experienced a large volume of emails and are doing our best to respond
to all our members in a timely manner.

Jerry, I've looked in to your report and have found out that we will not
be able to take action because we have specialists who handles these
kind of concerns regarding copying images from another website.

If you own the website, what you could do is enroll your it from our
Verified Rights Owner Program it protects rights owners by allowing them
to report listings that infringe upon their copyright, trademark,
patent, or other intellectual property rights.

To become a VeRO member you will have to:

- Submit a claim to VeRO you'll need to complete a Notice of Claimed
Infringement and send it to the VeRO team by fax. A copy of the notice
is posted on the site.
- The fax number is printed at the top of the form.
- Someone from the VeRO team will review your submission and get back to
you if they need more information.

VeRO: Helping Protect Intellectual Property (typing in www.ebay.com/vero (http://www.ebay.com/vero)
redirects to this page)
http://pages.ebay.com/vero/intro/index.html

And by the way, I would like to assure you that regardless whether the
listing has ended or not, we make it a point to take the appropriate
action if deemed in violation of our policies.

Jerry, I'm glad that I was able to provide you the steps on how you
could enroll your website to our VeRO program. I included a link to
further help you with VeRO.

Before I end this email I would like to commend you for being an eBay
member since Jan 03, 2000. Thank you for your continuous patronage and
have a wonderful time shopping and selling on our site.

Sincerely,
Karina Reniel

eBay Customer Support

Ok, now that it total BS.... and I'm (still) all for the process of making this forum CD... making available to everyone and hoping it will be less money too.

CJ

[gwizpro]

WOW, Downloaded the Full 2.3 file and all I can is WOW WOW WOW.......

Thank You Thank You Thank You Mr. Doug Fletcher

[Ike]

WOW, Downloaded the Full 2.3 file and all I can is WOW WOW WOW.......

Thank You Thank You Thank You Mr. Doug Fletcher
Doug I tried to download the large file, but an error occurred. Then today I tried again and it said it would take 20 hours, gee now I am thinking I have a hillbilly hookup! Tested my speed and my download was 4014 kbps and 376 kbps upload.

I will try again later!

Ike

[dbfletcher]

Doug I tried to download the large file, but an error occurred. Then today I tried again and it said it would take 20 hours, gee now I am thinking I have a hillbilly hookup! Tested my speed and my download was 4014 kbps and 376 kbps upload.

I will try again later!

Ike

That is pretty good for DSL, but in the world of broadband that would be near the very bottom.

My speeds are : 103198 kbps down and 40276 up.

Even though I live in a smallish town (26000), it is a college town (15000 students).... which does have some advantages :)

I had thought about starting a torrent for it, but I doubt we would have enough users who would seed it and it would die out quickly.

[Ike]

That is pretty good for DSL, but in the world of broadband that would be near the very bottom.

My speeds are : 103198 kbps down and 40276 up.

Even though I live in a smallish town (26000), it is a college town (15000 students).... which does have some advantages :)

I had thought about starting a torrent for it, but I doubt we would have enough users who would seed it and it would die out quickly.

Ok put you tongue back in your mouth and stop saying Neener Neener Neener! Lol I do have "Hillybilly Hookup" compared to you I have dial up! Well that is the fastest I can get and afford! I am going to have to wait until Saturday to download. I am going out of town, my wife has a job interview, since our soda business is no longer and I am disabled she needs to get a job! Anyway the download will be an over nighter!

Ike

[gwizpro]

It took 7-9 hours to download at an average of 100KPS. Doug, could your server possibly be slowing it down. Other sites I download from and speed test show a 12MPS download speed. I let it run all night, when I woke up it was only running at 50KBS, refreshed it and it went back to 100KBS. Maybe other people were downloading at the same time. I am not an expert. Doesn;t matter how long it took. I got all the files. Will the update be a small file or do we have to download the whole file again. Thanks for the awesome things this forum has done..... Tom

[Capt Bruce]

AT&T Uverse Fiber Optic Broadband brought the CD Zip file down in under 22 minutes. Great job Doug!

[dbfletcher]

It took 7-9 hours to download at an average of 100KPS. Doug, could your server possibly be slowing it down. Other sites I download from and speed test show a 12MPS download speed. I let it run all night, when I woke up it was only running at 50KBS, refreshed it and it went back to 100KBS. Maybe other people were downloading at the same time. I am not an expert. Doesn;t matter how long it took. I got all the files. Will the update be a small file or do we have to download the whole file again. Thanks for the awesome things this forum has done..... Tom


Updates will be smaller files. I use godaddy as my hosting site. It is possible they throttle downloads... I dont really know.

[eelamb]

It is normal for hosting companies to load balance the internet access to servers/sites hosted by them. If one site is using more of the load, the bandwidth for that site will be decreased, to even out the load for other servers and sites hosted.
My guess is Dougs hosted site was hit heavy with download request, and even though Godaddy normally has a fast connection to the world, the download access was cut back to balance the internet load. DSL sites I have set up have limitation you can place on connections of users during heavy usage. This keeps most everyone happy. Just watch your DSL connections when the local schools let out, most connections will slow down at that time as students get home and login.
All internet connections (ISP and hosting) have a certain amount of bandwidth purchased from the backbone and have to work within those limits.

[dbfletcher]

Wouldnt it be great if we had thumbnail images of every pattern on thoses zip files? Well, guess what! Now we do. I have added an update file for each of the zip files I posted on my website. They use the same structure as the original zip files I created, so all you need to do is download the update, unzip and copy the contents to the same place as the original zip file. Make sure you chose "Thumbnail" view for your explorer view option and you will see a thumbnail image for every pattern. I decided to include the entire import dialog box for each ptn since it also shows the width, height, and depth of each pattern. Originally I was going to release these at the end of the moth with the January update files, but I figured there was no real reason for waiting. Enjoy!

Again, the url to download these from is:

http://www.fletchercs.com/downloads1.shtml

Each thumbnail is a png image and I have adddd a few to this post. The forum converts my native png file to jpeg so the ones you download will be much clearer than what you see below.

[dougmsbbs]

Great step forward!!!

But... it's asking for a password when I try to unzip them. Did I download the wrong one or something?

[dbfletcher]

Great step forward!!!

But... it's asking for a password when I try to unzip them. Did I download the wrong one or something?

There shuldnt be passwords on them. I'll download and verify just to make sure.

[dbfletcher]

Great step forward!!!

But... it's asking for a password when I try to unzip them. Did I download the wrong one or something?

I think your download must have been corrupted. I wasnt prompted for a password. Which one did you download?

[dougmsbbs]

I downloaded the top one on the page. I'll try downloading it again and see what happens.

[dbfletcher]

If anyone else has a problem, please let me know.

[gwizpro]

On my imac it always asks for a password when I un zip files. It is the admin password. It does it on all .zip files......

[dougmsbbs]

Just tried again and it unzipped fine. Must have been my computer goofing up, I guess. sigh.

[PCW]

Doug it works fine.... Good job

[jpaluck]

BTW - to get e-bay to remove this cd from being sold the form at this link needs to be filled out and faxed in. http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/pdf/us/help/community/NOCI1.pdf If I knew for a fact my items are on his cd I would fill it out in a heartbeat.

[ruggybear]

All good stuff but I am curious why download all of the directories/files when all of the links take you to the forum on the web which tells you that you are not logged in and gives you an opportunity to do so. Not downloading the directories/files saves disk space and shortens the download dramatically. Not a flame just my take. I will defiantly use it. Thanks.

[dbfletcher]

All good stuff but I am curious why download all of the directories/files when all of the links take you to the forum on the web which tells you that you are not logged in and gives you an opportunity to do so. Not downloading the directories/files saves disk space and shortens the download dramatically. Not a flame just my take. I will defiantly use it. Thanks.

I'm not sure what you are saying. If you log in to the forum first before using the spreadsheet, it wil take you directly to the post/attachment in question. As other have stated, searching the pattern sharing gallery isnt always all that easy. I was just offering another method. In addition, there are a great deal of other shared patterns and project that do not live in the pattern sharing gallery. And with todays class of Hard drive, 2.5 GB really isnt worth mentioning.

[bjbethke]

BTW - to get e-bay to remove this cd from being sold the form at this link needs to be filled out and faxed in. http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/pdf/us/help/community/NOCI1.pdf If I knew for a fact my items are on his cd I would fill it out in a heartbeat.

I post a lot of user’s patterns on this form, so does Ken, can we get rich if we sue???

[Ike]

I post a lot of user’s patterns on this form, so does Ken, can we get rich if we sue???

I too have shared a few patterns, I am wondering if any of my patterns are on this disc?

Ike

[dbfletcher]

Ike,

Did you see this post in this thread? I think it is a list of all the patterns on the ebay cd.

http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?17207-Pattern-CD-Poll&p=145483#post145483

[Ike]

Ike,

Did you see this post in this thread? I think it is a list of all the patterns on the ebay cd.

http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?17207-Pattern-CD-Poll&p=145483#post145483
Yes I did. but I can not open it, or can I finish your download of the big file it keeps telling me it is corrupt.

Ike

[CarverJerry]

WoW, I downloaded the big file, it worked fine, took a while but I just started it before I went to bed and when I got up it was finished. I just can't believe how many different files are there. I'm so overwhelmed I don't know where to start or even how to organize them in my already existing CW pattern folder. I want to say thank you Doug for all the work you have put into this.

CarverJerry

[dbfletcher]

WoW, I downloaded the big file, it worked fine, took a while but I just started it before I went to bed and when I got up it was finished. I just can't believe how many different files are there. I'm so overwhelmed I don't know where to start or even how to organize them in my already existing CW pattern folder. I want to say thank you Doug for all the work you have put into this.

CarverJerry

CarverJerry,

To be honest, now that I have added the thumbnail images, I dont plan on adding them to my pattern file. I'm sure you have seen other posts where designer starts having very strange behaviour once the pattern file reaches a certina size. With the thumbnail, I can now just browse the pics, and double click on the ptn for "on the fly" use. But you can import them if you wish, just be away that several members haved noted problems with designer when the pattern file gets large.

And please let us know if you do come up with a good organization method.

Of course this all might be moot when the web based option goes live from Jonny. Althought I do kinda of wonder how he is going to populate his site. I'm fine with him using what I have compiled, but I would have issue if he still plans on asking for donations at that point.

[Ike]

Doug I downloaded the file last night, but mine said 191m file size did you change the file or did I download the wrong one again! This one is big though and very impressive! Thank for the e-bay list I see this guy didn't even change the file names! There are a few from H.T. when his site was go3D! If I knew I had some of the patterns I made I would tell e-bay. He posted if anybody tells him that their patterns are on his CD he would remove them. If we all told him then he would have a CD to sell!

Ike

[dbfletcher]

Doug I downloaded the file last night, but mine said 191m file size did you change the file or did I download the wrong one again! This one is big though and very impressive! Thank for the e-bay list I see this guy didn't even change the file names! There are a few from H.T. when his site was go3D! If I knew I had some of the patterns I made I would tell e-bay. He posted if anybody tells him that their patterns are on his CD he would remove them. If we all told him then he would have a CD to sell!

Ike

I'm not sure why you are seeing a smaller size. The sizes listed on the webpage are correct. Regardless, be the end of the week you'll have everything I posted.

[Kenm810]

Hi Doug,

Great Work, and yes I did find several Files that I had lost or totally forgotten about.
I started down loading the files you offered on your Site -- about noon today,
and finished a little before 3 pm --- Looks like everything opens up Fine.

A Big Thanks Again

[Ike]

I'm not sure why you are seeing a smaller size. The sizes listed on the webpage are correct. Regardless, be the end of the week you'll have everything I posted.
I can't wait! Yes you made me a believer! This is a great ideal, like Ken I found patterns I forgot about! Again Doug you are Da Man!

Ike

[dbfletcher]

Hi Doug,

Great Work, and yes I did find several Files that I had lost or totally forgotten about.
I started down loading the files you offered on your Site -- about noon today,
and finished a little before 3 pm --- Looks like everything opens up Fine.

A Big Thanks Again


Here are the files sizes of the file as posted at godaddy...

Ken - I believe the lhr-psg file is when I first posted for comments before I released the final version. I dont think there are links to the file anymore.

[dbfletcher]

per request of forum members, I have taken down my page.

[fwharris]

per request of forum members, I have taken down my page.


????????????

[gwizpro]

Damn, what a world we live in.

There are new members all the time and some of them are really talented. They will hopefully keep the the forum rich in PTN's.

Wonder why some members asked Doug to take the site down??????

[dbfletcher]

To protect his work. As far as I know we all gave him permission to use our patterns for the CD! (He asked first!)

Ike

To clear this up, it wasnt to protect my work. It was to honor original authors works.

Any of my work is free for all to use as long as any dirivative works also remain entirely free and moreover I specifically stated that all rights stay witht he original authors. It can not be sold in whole or part and solicitaion for donations would also be prohibited.

[Jonny]

per request of forum members, I have taken down my page.

Any chance you could just take out the files from the user(s) that complained? I think the folders were sorted by username so it wouldn't be much trouble? I'd hate to see so much work killed off so quickly. From looking at it last week, I'd thought you had quite a bit of time invested so far.

[dbfletcher]

Any chance you could just take out the files from the user(s) that complained? I think the folders were sorted by username so it wouldn't be much trouble? I'd hate to see so much work killed off so quickly. From looking at it last week, I'd thought you had quite a bit of time invested so far.

Theoretically yes.... realistically I dont know. I dont want to be put in a place where members may stop sharing on the forum if they feel thier rights are not being fully protected.

[Jonny]

Theoretically yes.... realistically I dont know. I dont want to be put in a place where members may stop sharing on the forum if they feel thier rights are not being fully protected.

I sure hope this don't start a war: I talked to my lawyer yesterday, basically just to confirm what I've seen for the past 15 years working as a web developer, site manager, etc. When someone posts a file on a public forum with the slightest whiff of inferrence that it's being shared in any way, they just signed their rights away. Case in point: the ebay CD. People said they complained, and ebay has a top-notch investigations department. Yet the CD lives. I just say this to let you know that I doubt there would be 'legal' trouble, but it would still be a storm.

I'm still on the fence about how to handle it myself. I came into the website database idea fully expecting that it would be a party and everyone would be grateful to have their shared works further distributed to basically everyone else in this particular forum. Turns out that ain't the case with a few folks, and even though they are absolutely wrong from a legal standpoint and someone can do whatever the heck they want with the shared files, it would still be bad juju. I'll most likely have to work doubly hard, just like you will if you keep the CD idea alive, to keep the peace and avoid mud slinging.

It's a real shame. Had that ebay CD not been discovered, people most likely wouldn't be so touchy. It would be just grand if we all forgot about one single bad incident and went about our merry time here continuing to share and help in the manner that I've come to be used to seeing.

[lynnfrwd]

This is the whole reason why we made the PatternDepot with the licensing feature. It is to protect pattern vendors original work from being freely distributed. It offers them (and us) payment for the use of their creations. If you have patterns that you want licensed and protected, we can sign you up as a Pattern Vendor, or like others have done, you can set up your own online store and sell them yourselves. If you post it in a pattern sharing site, then it's out there.

Whether it's a pattern, project or video on a free or sharing site like ours in the forum, you basically have made it free to the public. That pretty much means any one can do anything they want with it. It might not be morally right...like the guy selling Michael T's YoYo project for an outrageous amount of money, but I don't think it is illegal.

This is not a new discussion. One very similar started in early 2007 and again in 2009 (guess we're on a two year cycle with this topic). I imagine it will end the same way and hope we don't lose any forum members over it.

This forum is about helping each other, making new friends, patting each other on the back and building one another up while we learn & enjoy this machine. Doug did a great thing that I am sure many people will appreciate, just as Jonny is doing a great thing. Which ever format you chose to use, PatternSharing Thread, Doug's CD or Jack's website, it doesn't matter. If one of them decides to sell or profit from it, which I hope they don't, you have the right to not purchase it!

[PCW]

like the guy selling Michael T's YoYo project for an outrageous amount of money, but I don't think it is illegal

Have to disagree.... I think the person that is selling Michaels project is legally wrong if Michael never put it out there for free and if he has not authorized the use? Surprised to hear a statement like that from LHR.

[lynnfrwd]

Have to disagree.... I think the person that is selling Michaels project is legally wrong if Michael never put it out there for free and if he has not authorized the use? Surprised to hear a statement like that from LHR.

Some of Michael's projects were packaged by us and put out there through Amazon, Lowes, maybe Woodcraft. Michael gets paid for them. So long as they've never been registered and he is selling what he says he is selling, it is not illegal. This is just like you buying a painting for x amount and then reselling it for x times 100 or 1000. If someone is willing to pay that, then you made money.

This is also assuming the guy bought them legitimately and didn't steal them.

[PCW]

Some of Michael's projects were packaged by us and put out there through Amazon, Lowes, maybe Woodcraft. Michael gets paid for them. So long as they've never been registered and he is selling what he says he is selling, it is not illegal. This is just like you buying a painting for x amount and then reselling it for x times 100 or 1000. If someone is willing to pay that, then you made money.

That would be understandable and long as the product was original and not already registered. I just wasn't sure if the seller was selling a copied project. I believe that ptn files (I think) prior to 1.23 or so could be edited by anyone.

Hard to say without knowing all that facts. <smile>

[Kenm810]

I’ve been pretty much sitting back for a while now, posting once and a while and watching the CW Forum lately,
doing my best not to offend anyone by throwing my 2cents on either side of the fence.
As A few folks know, over the last few months, I’ve rcecieved a couple more negative Emails about me giving away (Sharing) my Patterns, Ptn, and Mpc files.
It seems I’ve been posting too many of my carving ideas, or project layouts, --- and congratulating other Forum Members a little to often, for their good work and efforts with their CW and CC Machines. I know that I sometimes straying off the subject matter posted occasionally, --- and have been reminded about that a few times also.
I do enjoy helping “a little when I can” and sharing my patterns the other carvers on the forum --- to me that means, you have my permission to carve them, sell the carvings, give the carvings away as gifts, collect them, or just add the files to your Mpc or Ptn Library, --- not to sell the files by themselves, as a group, or as if they were your own ---They’re Not
I would like to add, -- that I really have no problem with any of the Folks and Sites that sell “Their Own Pattern Files” on or off the Forum, -- their Mpcs and Ptns are all great and I realize they put a lot of work into them for a reasonable price, I also think they all deserve our appreciation and a round of Thanks for their efforts and Artistry ….. Key Words “Their Own Pattern Files” … Doug, Jonny, Great work and keep at it --- nuff said.

[dbfletcher]

Ken,

I, for one, love you creativity. You always inspire lots of new ideas and show how a few simple shapes can oftens times becomes incredibly intricate and complex objects. I also think as we move from the ranks of junior, to member to senior member, chearleading becomes an important part of the role. It is very easy to get discouraged with this machine at times... and those 'atta-boys" from you and other very well repected members go a long ways to restore the "fun" factor when a member takes the time to show whatever he has done. Everyone is at a different level, but to me someones first carve of there name in a peice of scrap wood is just as impressive and praise worthy as the fabulous patterns and projects the expert on here have put out. I cant tell you how many of you projects I have downoaded just to try and reverse engineer how you did them!

[bjbethke]

This is the whole reason why we made the PatternDepot with the licensing feature. It is to protect pattern vendors original work from being freely distributed. It offers them (and us) payment for the use of their creations. If you have patterns that you want licensed and protected, we can sign you up as a Pattern Vendor, or like others have done, you can set up your own online store and sell them yourselves. If you post it in a pattern sharing site, then it's out there.

Whether it's a pattern, project or video on a free or sharing site like ours in the forum, you basically have made it free to the public. That pretty much means any one can do anything they want with it. It might not be morally right...like the guy selling Michael T's YoYo project for an outrageous amount of money, but I don't think it is illegal.

This is not a new discussion. One very similar started in early 2007 and again in 2009 (guess we're on a two year cycle with this topic). I imagine it will end the same way and hope we don't lose any forum members over it.

This forum is about helping each other, making new friends, patting each other on the back and building one another up while we learn & enjoy this machine. Doug did a great thing that I am sure many people will appreciate, just as Jonny is doing a great thing. Which ever format you chose to use, PatternSharing Thread, Doug's CD or Jack's website, it doesn't matter. If one of them decides to sell or profit from it, which I hope they don't, you have the right to not purchase it!

I do not think this is a public forum, it is my understanding this forum is private and only members can use the information that a member posted. If you are not logged in then you can not use the patterns that a member posted. See image:

[fwharris]

Ken,

Thanks for jumping in!

Your "couple of negative emails" must be some grummpy people who do not recognize what you do for the forum and it's members. The majority of your posts (IMOP) are done to teach and inspire us on how to get better with the machine and software.