I have a Al question and anyone else who can help!

[Ike]

I have been trying to make this simple project. This is going on a Jeep Scrambler for side boards. All it is a 4" wide by 57" rectangle the board is 5.5" wide by 58.5" long. The distance from the edge is suppose to be .75" from the outside border to the edge.

I have ran test boards and one end comes out correct and the other is either to the edge or too far. Then I dial it down and run the oak board and ruin the board.

Ok this is the question, will my head pressure cause these issues? I lower the head and it tells me to load the board. So I raise and lower it and click it a bit and it works. No I have not checked the head pressure yet.

Plus I will get a few tracking error and press enter and it continues. I am thinking at that point it throws it off. Another thing I have replaced the exit sandpaper belt 2 times and the the feed tray.

So any ideals what I can do? I included the mpc, maybe there is a problem?

Oh another thing when I made the Lincoln bank my rings were off, I did not scale down and I followed the instructions and still the border was thinner on one edge.

Ike

[Deolman]

Ike, I would look at "Adjusting The Head Pressure" on page 2 of this document:

http://www.carvewright.com/2010CWweb/service/Service_instructions/CarveWright_service_adjust_head_pressure.pdf

[Ike]

Thanks you Deolman I know how to adjust the pressure, but before I go through it I wanted to make sure it wasn't something else! Again thank you!

[cnsranch]

Ike - are you using additional support infeed/outfeed? The board tipping down when it's that long will give you problems.

[Ike]

Jerry yes I am, I am really think it is the head pressure. Because I need to warm up the head before it registers having a board. It lowers to the point it tells me to load a board and then I help it and click the handle until it reads enter. But what the problem is my machine measures correctly, but cuts off. In the mpc it needs to be exact and it should be a simple project. I made one sign with 2 pine trees at the edge of each board one tree was in about a inch.

For the most part during the set up process I get a board tracking error and I have replaced 3 belts now on the out feed tray. I have also replaced a tray that is sprung. So I am thinking it is the head pressure, but would like some input to it maybe something else......AL! and of course all other members!


Ike

[Digitalwoodshop]

Ike,

I would look at some basics that can trip you up...

First thing is to check the screws under the machine that holds the smooth vertical rails. I was having strange problems a few months back and found a screw loose on the bottom of the smooth post letting it lift the whole head.

I would do AskBud's Paper test on a cranked down board.... Try pulling the strips of paper from the left and right side of the board. Looking for a un level head.

The Oak failure sounds like the Brass Roller loosing contact with the board or the hardness of the board letting the roller slip.

How about that rubber that pushes up the brass roller.... Is it missing?

How about taking a close look at the brass roller.... With your fine redwood dust.... Any chance it got into the brass roller encoder.... There is a Encoder on the X Motor too.... Never looked which encoder shows up when looking at the X Data... I would hand turn the brass roller looking for skips in data due to dust...

So that is my list.... A Rolled UNDER Sand Paper Belt muffler side at the brass roller, can cause this due to raising the board away from the brass roller....

Let us know,

AL

[Ike]

Thank you Al for responding! This is what I have done I do the 4' level check, I take two 4' levels and crank the head down until it just touches the level(s). Then I check to see if there is equal pressure and both seemed to have the same. When it is cold the head will not go down enough to register having a board. So after running the head up and down a few times it will show a board loaded and press enter.

The other thing I replaced the O-rings on the brass roller and have blown out the dust. Even with my test pieces for the side boards would not come out right. I used pine, redwood and oak and it carves the side and one end correct and messes up on the other end. All the project is a simple rectangle 4" wide 57" long.

The other issue is I have replaced a roller tray on the out feed, muffler side because it was sprung. Plus 3 belts that have ripped a 1 1/2" strip opposite of the crank side.

I am thinking it all because of improper head pressure, but also wonder if there is an underlining issue?

Like I said I blew out the brass roller and it spins freely, but how do you check the data? This is my new machine still under warranty and what sucks is I can't afford to pay the shipping to send it in for repair! I am still paying Amazon! It is so bad the wife is looking for a job, since the soda business has failed. I am hoping to continue the sign shop since I picked up some great shows, but it is not looking good.

So any help to save money fixing my CW is welcomed! I am going to replace the connections for Ffc ribbon on my older CW and hope it works! I gave away my spare Ffc ribbon to a member who needed one and was not able to get one soon enough. I gave away my QC chuck and other parts and now it is biting me in the butt! I need to stop giving away my spare parts!

Ike

[Ike]

Update, the pressure is 64 pounds so I need to adjust the pressure. Another thing I try loading the board and again it said to load the board, but this time I noticed (back). Then go up and down I was able to get it read the board and as it measured a tracking error occurred. Plus it sounds like it is struggling to move the board. I push enter after the error and I think if I went through the process I am sure it would be off.

So Al do you think it might be the roller or motor? I can try replacing it, I do have a spare. First I will adjust the pressure, but I am still baffled about the load board (back) error.

Ike

[dbfletcher]

FWIW.. normally when i hear the machine stuggling on the X, I back the cluck off 1-2 clicks. To be perfectly honest, I have no idea what my head pressure is at that point, but I really just go by sound anymore. I've sure you have made sure the sides of your board is perfectly parellel and the your guides are also parellel. If the board gets wedged, it will also make the X struggle. When is that last time you pulled the cover of the X gears to make sure you have no missing or rounded teeth?

[Ike]

Only problem is my head pressure is low, so backing off won't work! Yes my boards are square and I thought of that and have back the fence off a bit. Tonight I didn't even have the fence against the board. So I am at a lost I am tired so maybe I should stop thinking!

I appreciate your thoughts every bit helps! I will get this figured out!

Ike

[dbfletcher]

Ok.. let me throw this out there. How many times did you measure your head pressure? Also, how thick is the scale your using? I'm not 100% i would trust your scale reading explicitly if say.. your scale is 1.5 thich and you are normally using .5-.75" thick wood. I know there have been times in the past when I measure my head pressure... then cranked the head all the way ot the top.. and repeated. Sometimes the the scale would fluxuate by more than 80 lbs. That was a big clue for me it was time for a good cleaning... rails, clutch, etc. After Im able to get 4-5 measurements withing 5-10 lbs with that procedure, then I'm fairly certain I have the machine "back in spec". And make sure you blow all the gremlins out... mine sneak back in at the worst possble moments.

[Ike]

My scale is digital and only a little over an inch. I checked it several times including each rollers and the reading varied by 1 pound. I have cleaned and lubed the rails and the problem is not enough pressure. Again with the shop warm and after use I lower the head until it clicks and it I get the load board. So I raise it up again and with help pushing with my hand I lower it again until it shows the board loaded.

I make signs 1.5" thick and it should not make a difference how thick the board is the pressure should remain the same within a pound or two. So my concerns are the tracking errors and carvings being offset I.E. the side boards and the one sign I make with 2 pine trees on each end. The board is 11.5" by 24" and the trees set to the edge of the board on each end. One sign the pine on the right end was correct the pine on the left was 1" away from the edge, yet the lettering was centered between the trees.

My thoughts are I pressed enter after a roller tracking error and at the point it stopped it lost an inch in measuring. So I am wondering is it being caused by the low head pressure or is it the brass roller?

Ike

[Deolman]

Ike, did you try re-aligning the vertical bars per the manual? I was getting all types of various errors until I did that. Once I did that, my head pressure went up to normal and my load board message went away when loading a board. I think the machines rack some during shipment and just need to be re-aligned. It only takes a few minutes.

[www.carvenow.com]

Could it be the y axis tracking sensor? On the back of the y motor. Maybe it get dirty and lost track?

[DocWheeler]

Ike,

I'm with Al about the tracking, did you check to see if the little piece of hose was under the brass roller assembly?
Sounds as though the roller is not pressing against the bottom of the board hard enough, oak would therefore act different than soft wood.

[Ike]

Ike,

I'm with Al about the tracking, did you check to see if the little piece of hose was under the brass roller assembly?
Sounds as though the roller is not pressing against the bottom of the board hard enough, oak would therefore act different than soft wood.



Ken, what hose are you talking about? I replaced the O ring and took off the old ring before installing the new ring. Now is it possible I installed the wrong size O ring, if so does anyone know the correct size off hand? Plus I am sorry for not being clear enough, I am having tracking issues with oak and redwood and pine, basically all material. Like I posted before I ran a sign using redwood with a pine tree on each end. Both pines were set at the edge so I could cut them out. One pine was correct the other was about an inch from the edge. I recall having a roller tracking error and pushing enter to continue. I am thinking it stopped short of the end and measured it incorrectly, because the wording was still center. It did not give me any message to scale to new measurements.

Today I will check my vertical bars and adjust the pressure and remove the brass roller assembly and inspect or replace the assembly. Still doesn't explain why I have went through 3 brand new roller belts and one of the roller trays? I am wondering if the head pressure or lack of pressure is causing these issues or is it something else?

Oh I wish I could afford to send it in!

Ike

[Digitalwoodshop]

Ike,

No need to send it and risk it being dropped..... We all know how much fun that can be when UPS tells us.... "not my problem"....


So lets start with the first thing that caught my attention.... You replaced the O ring on the Brass Roller..... The original most likely is metric and the new one most likely Standard. The Thickness of the O ring could be the source of your problem.... The thicker O ring is making contact with the board but could be too thick and is not letting the Teeth of the brass roller engage the board. So your measurements only rely on a smooth O ring and the board.... Do you have the old O ring? OR try a test.... Place a strip of masking tape on the board edge and let it do a measurement of the board. Then remove the board and look at the tape. Does the tape have the Rack and Pinion of the Brass Roller or just the O ring Track... Is the O ring holding the board up and away from the teeth of the brass roller.... Hence Poor Readings.... Board not matching the correct position.... Remember when ever the machine is moving the X, it is looking at the Brass Roller as feedback. SO if the brass Roller slips on the board then the machine blindly keeps moving it and now you are OFF in the X Direction and everything cut after that will be OFF.

I have not seen it... But I have seen pictures posted here... A piece of something like 1/4 inch rubber hose that is located under the brass roller and pressed UP..... Many have sucked it out of the Brass Roller with a Vacuum Cleaner and found it in the can. Your's could be missing..... It is like a Under Wire on a Push Up Bra.... Lifts the Brass Roller.... LOL....

I posted a picture of a project that had a X Brass Roller Loss Of contact to the Board Error with Multi Pass Cut Path.... The Machine Blindly Moved the board waiting for the correct Brass roller data causing the error.... I could not find my picture showing the Rack and Pinion marks in Masking Tape on the under side of the board on another project.... I love Masking Tape.... Cheaper than Wood....

Now for the X driving Sluggish.... Too Much pressure.... The Crank is not a vice.... For the first project in the morning and I hear the sluggish X Movement I quickly back off on the pressure on the hand crank. Just enough to let the speed go back to normal.... I have already made the decision that I am going to ABORT this project so the measurement does not matter. TOO Loose and you get a board removed or worse the board starts rocking back and fourth in the X Direction slow at first the quick.... Open the cover quick.... This action can snap the X Gear..... The Cause was the board loosing contact with the brass roller when you released the pressure.....

I believe Moisture and sawdust on the UNDER side of the Sand Paper Belt is the cause of this slow motion plus TOO Tight of a head pressure WHILE the moisture is on the belt.

That is why I run a few measurements then ABORT and do it again.... You have mentioned replacing the belts a few time for Rips... Well the moisture and sawdust is most likely your reason.... The Sawdust acts like ROSEN and makes the belts GRIP the Trays. I start having this problem when my belts get 8 to 12 months old and have sawdust impacted on the back of the belts. Once I replace the belts the morning problems go way for a few months...

The next thing I would do on your machine is remove the Left Side keypad side.... Careful you don't RIP a cable..... I want you to loosen the 2 screws holding the plate that the roller rests on when it is uncompressed. I don't want you to remove it...., Just loosen it about 1/2 inch.....

Then Remove the Micro Switch and blow everything out with air.... I am betting you will have the very fine redwood sawdust in the roller assembly. This should fix your problem with roller errors causing everything from please install board to board removed.... Do BOTH Rollers just the keypad side.

That flat plate that the roller rests on can get compacted with sawdust preventing the micro switch form engaging. And a DIRTY Switch area can prevent a compressed Roller Switch ARM from falling into the SLOT showing COMPRESSED....

While you have everything open.... Lubricate the 2 Jacking Shafts and 4 smooth shafts.

NOW for the Sand Paper Belts.... You will hate to do it but I would now remove and clean the Belt Trays and inspect the X Gear box for sawdust..... I have started leaving my Far Side Silver cover off the machine to make for easier access of the sand paper belts on my machines....


So if you clean, inspect and lubricate the machine I bet it will solve the problems...... You work with the best Sign Wood, Old Growth Redwood. The Down Side is the FINE DUST.... It is more dense than the Pine I work with....

OK... One LAST thing.... For $ hits and Giggles.... I love your 2 Level method of setting the head level.... But can you do the Z Data check when the machine is all done being cleaned and lubricated. Checking a wide board.

Good Luck, and let us know the result....

Ike? Do you have a Sign Website? If NOT... Send me a CD of Pictures and I will make a Page on my website to post the pictures.... 90% of my business is coming from Internet Searches.... Every Picture I post has has tag data and the Search Bots key on them.... So someone searching for "Redwood Sign" will fall on my "Redwood Signs" page with contact info for YOU.... My normal Sign Customers don't have access to Redwood Signs and you may just get some business from my end of the US.... But Just adding "California" to the Tags could capture someone searching for "Redwood Sign + California"

See Picture 3 where the Uncompressed Roller lets the Tang of the Switch slide into the hole next to the spring... Sawdust in here prevents the switch from entering the hole.... And will show Compressed when Un Compressed and that screws up the Computer.... Lots of Errors....


Let me know and Good Luck.... AL

[Ike]

Al one thing O asked the size of the O-ring because I replaced it with a smaller one. No I don't have the old one, but I will test it with tape. I really don't think it is dragging because of too much pressure. I am having the load board issue.

I will try the other things tomorrow and see if I can find what size O-ring to get.

Ike

[DocWheeler]

Ike,

Sorry I didn't get back sooner. Under the brass roller assembly is a short section of hose (at least on my machines) that acts as a spring to push the brass roller up against the board. It sits over a screw-head if I recall correctly, and gets knocked out sometimes.

[Ike]

Ike,

Sorry I didn't get back sooner. Under the brass roller assembly is a short section of hose (at least on my machines) that acts as a spring to push the brass roller up against the board. It sits over a screw-head if I recall correctly, and gets knocked out sometimes.
Thank you Ken I think it is still there because it still springs up and down. I need to go through it and clean everything and check every thing and hope it works!

Ike

[Deolman]

The size of O-ring is I am using is 5/16" ID X 7/16" OD. I found them in the faucet repair area of Lowes. I think I got a dozen for a couple of bucks. Also the O-ring goes on the indentation farthest in, not the first indentation.

[cnsranch]

Deolman's got it, Ike - look here -

http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?13019-O-Ring&highlight=O+ring

[Ike]

The size of O-ring is I am using is 5/16" ID X 7/16" OD. I found them in the faucet repair area of Lowes. I think I got a dozen for a couple of bucks. Also the O-ring goes on the indentation farthest in, not the first indentation.
Thank you my friend! I installed a smaller one so that may be my problem! Thank you again!

Ike

[cnsranch]

Wrong size will get you every time, Ike.

[Ike]

Wrong size will get you every time, Ike.
Isn't that the truth in many things!

[Ike]

I wonder if that has been the problem all a long? I didn't start having the measuring problem until after replacing the O-ring. I also replaced the O-ring on my other machine, but have not used it because of the Ffc ribbon or connection board. Plus Al my website is on my homepage.

Ike