Pistol Grips?

[Burl Source]

Is anyone using their carvewright to carve pistol grips?

I was curious if there are any patterns available for purchase?
Maybe someone has some hints, tips or tricks to share.

I have been requested by a local gun shop to make model 1911 grips from burl and figured woods. I could make them by hand but figured the machine would be a much more cost effective way to go.

This photo shows the grips I will be attempting to duplicate and an example piece ot the wood that will be used. The grips will have a domed outer surface and the underside or backs will require some cutting of grooves and hollowed areas. The wood I will be using will be slightly larger than the actual finished grips.

http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac219/burlsource/dec/cw001.jpg

I have the carvewright with the scanning probe. I am just unpacking and getting everything set up so bear in mind you are talking to someone with 0 experience using the machine so far. Up until now my time has been spent reading the manual and viewing the video and tutorials on the website.

Any help, direction or advice is greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Mark

[Kenm810]

Take a look at this thread of posts -- it might give you a place to start

File conversion request (http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?14035-File-conversion-request&highlight=model+1911+grips)

[PCW]

Welcome to the forum.

Just practice on scrap wood till you get the pattern tweaked. I would hate to see you turn a piece of exotic wood into scrap The reason I have never attempted to post a pattern is because most all the time the slabs need to be hand fitted to the handgun.

[Burl Source]

Thank You both for your response.
I read the thread you mentioned and downloaded a pattern in one of the threads I found with both grips. I must have done something wrong because when I carved them it came out at about 80% the size they should have been. I think I need to spend more time in T&T before I go much further.
I'll watch for other posts and when I finally get everything figured out I will post some photos.
Thanks, Mark

[Kenm810]

Mark,

If you do a Forum Search like " Pistol Grips" you see a few more threads and post on Grips

1911A1 Pistol Grips (http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?15116-1911A1-Pistol-Grips&highlight=pistol+grips)

[Burl Source]

I went to the threads that related to pistol grips. There I found a download labeled (GunGrips1ptn.)
When I loaded the pattern on my machine and carved them they were not the correct size.

My guess is that I did something wrong when the machine gave it's prompts. The board I used was plenty large to allow for extra 4" each end.

http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac219/burlsource/dec/cw003.jpg

[bjbethke]

I went to the threads that related to pistol grips. There I found a download labeled (GunGrips1ptn.)
When I loaded the pattern on my machine and carved them they were not the correct size.

My guess is that I did something wrong when the machine gave it's prompts. The board I used was plenty large to allow for extra 4" each end.

http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac219/burlsource/dec/cw003.jpg

You can adjust the size, use the grid function.

[Burl Source]

You can adjust the size, use the grid function.

The pattern shown in your thumbnail is different than the one I downloaded.
I am assuming that is your personal pattern for grips.
Do you make pistol grips?
If yes.....Would you be willing to share your pattern and a bit of guidance in exchange for some cool wood to use on a set of grips?

[bjbethke]

The pattern shown in your thumbnail is different than the one I downloaded.
I am assuming that is your personal pattern for grips.
Do you make pistol grips?
If yes.....Would you be willing to share your pattern and a bit of guidance in exchange for some cool wood to use on a set of grips?

I downloaded the PTN's from this Forum, here is a copy. If you have the CW scaner you can make copies of your grips and make your own patterns (PTN's). It comes with a code to open the Pattern Editor in the CW program.

[mtylerfl]

I went to the threads that related to pistol grips. There I found a download labeled (GunGrips1ptn.)
When I loaded the pattern on my machine and carved them they were not the correct size.

My guess is that I did something wrong when the machine gave it's prompts. The board I used was plenty large to allow for extra 4" each end.



Hello Mark,

In case it was user error at the machine prompts, the following Tips & Tricks may help. Hopefully, they will shed light on what happened and how to avoid the problem in the future...

ISSUE 3 December 2007 – Handy Tips for Everyone! (http://www.carvewright.com/downloads/tips/CarveWright_Tips_and_Tricks_Dec07.pdf)

ISSUE 18 March 2009 – Scaling and How to Avoid It! (http://www.carvewright.com/downloads/tips/CarveWrightTips&Tricks_Mar09.pdf)

[Burl Source]

Hello Mark,

In case it was user error at the machine prompts, the following Tips & Tricks may help. Hopefully, they will shed light on what happened and how to avoid the problem in the future...

ISSUE 3 December 2007 – Handy Tips for Everyone! (http://www.carvewright.com/downloads/tips/CarveWright_Tips_and_Tricks_Dec07.pdf)

ISSUE 18 March 2009 – Scaling and How to Avoid It! (http://www.carvewright.com/downloads/tips/CarveWrightTips&Tricks_Mar09.pdf)


I have gone back and re-read these two issues of Tips. I think I know where the problem came from.

bjbethke mentioned scanning the grips I have.
These have checkering and a logo that I would want to delete. I need to figure out how to edit them out and create a smooth domed surface. I guess it's time to experiment more with the pattern editor or is this something that can be done with the probe software?

I am going to build a scanning sled and see what I can do.

[mtylerfl]

I have gone back and re-read these two issues of Tips. I think I know where the problem came from.

bjbethke mentioned scanning the grips I have.
These have checkering and a logo that I would want to delete. I need to figure out how to edit them out and create a smooth domed surface. I guess it's time to experiment more with the pattern editor or is this something that can be done with the probe software?

I am going to build a scanning sled and see what I can do.

Hi Mark,

I'm not sure that you'll be able to do any editing on those patterns. Patterns are encrypted with copy-protection since version 1.123 of the software and locks out the ability for editing by anyone other than the original creator, and on the original computer they were created on. However, if the patterns are available in their original "raw" MPW scan format, there is no copy-protection encryption at all on MPW files and can be edited, no problem.

Having said all that, it might still be hard to acheive a uniformly domed surface if the original scan has the cross-hatch texture. But, it won't hurt to experiment with that as long as you can get your hands on the original MPW files, that is.

Sidenote: As a "safety net", I always save my scans as BOTH MPW as well as PTN file formats. That way, if I ever want to transfer a pattern to a new or different computer, I would use the MPW file and be able to edit it freely on another computer without concern for the copy-protection locking me out of my own patterns.

[Burl Source]

I spent a good bit of time reading the different tutorials and whatever other info I could find. In order to make an exact duplication looks like I need to scan the grips I have. Built a quick scanning sled and scanned the grips.

http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac219/burlsource/dec/csled002.jpg

Next I made a carving sled to hold the pieces I will be carving for grips. Since the pieces I will be carving are small pieces I needed a way to hold them in place to carve. I used a 3/4" board and then cut some wood the same thickness as the pieces I am going to carve. Everything is held in place with double side tape.

http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac219/burlsource/dec/csled001.jpg

Just to be extra careful I taped the edges of the pieces I am going to carve to prevent a piece from breaking loose.

http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac219/burlsource/dec/csled003.jpg

Now it's time to start carving to see if this is going to work.

[Burl Source]

Carving was a big time failure.
1st The carved grips came out to about 80% actual size.
2nd Even prominent details did not carve. Example; round logo in center.
3rd Strange carved area in lower right center area.

http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac219/burlsource/dec/1001.jpg

I scanned and carved at best setting. When scanning the grips were held secure and I was unable to rock or move them under pressure. The material being scanned has a hard surface. When I downloaded the scan I saved a copy as a pattern which I loaded on a board that was about 8" longer than indicated in Designer. My only action was to center on board. Then I uploaded to card for carving. When prompted by the machine I did not select anything that would indicate scale change.

I am at a total loss as to what I did wrong.
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks,
Mark

[Burl Source]

When I go to the pattern editor the scan looks good as far as detail goes. The logo and checkering are prominent and clear.
When I go to designer and load as a pattern the dimensions read 7.15 instead of what should be about 9.5.
The detail looks muddy here.

Apparently I am doing something wrong when downloading and saving the scan.
Any ideas?

When I go to download the scan from the card it says the image size is 2.12 x 9.64
When it is downloaded in PE it reads 1.414 x 7.156
If I attempt to resize with the proportions ratio locked the new figures don't match up. Example entering 2.12 in the first field results in about 10.6 in the second field.

Thanks,
Mark

[PCW]

I just made these from a STL file if you want to give them a try. Let me know if they need tweaking.

[AskBud]

When I go to the pattern editor the scan looks good as far as detail goes. The logo and checkering are prominent and clear.
When I go to designer and load as a pattern the dimensions read 7.15 instead of what should be about 9.5.
The detail looks muddy here.

Apparently I am doing something wrong when downloading and saving the scan.
Any ideas?

When I go to download the scan from the card it says the image size is 2.12 x 9.64
When it is downloaded in PE it reads 1.414 x 7.156
If I attempt to resize with the proportions ratio locked the new figures don't match up. Example entering 2.12 in the first field results in about 10.6 in the second field.

Thanks,
Mark
Mark,
Try this:
Take a good look at your pattern, on the design. Something touches each side of the rectangle. Note these points and measure your model and make new measurements (just to clarify your measurement process). Laying it on graph paper might be a good way to get the same perspective.

Draw a rectangle the width & length of your grip, using these new measurements (just to have a good target).
Change one dimension to be correct, and turn off the feather (If it's there).
Note: Before you do this last step, below, magnify your design window as much as possible so you can be more finite.
Now, Drag the "yellow" dots on the other dimension, until it is correct.
AskBud

[Burl Source]

Thank You PCW and Ask Bud.
I am going to try what you both recommended and will post my results.
Thanks again and Merry Christmas
Mark

[Burl Source]

I just finished carving the patterns that PCW posted.
This worked out much better than anything I have tried so far. I placed the 2 patterns on a board 2" x 10" because that is the size I have for the inserts on my carving sled. Next I placed 2 pieces 2" x 5" in the sled butting against each other held in place with double sided tape and carved the patterns.
Here are the results. I set one of the takeoff grips over one of the carved patterns and the size is just right.

http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac219/burlsource/dec/pg001.jpg

Thank You PCW for your help with the patterns. Your help has taken me from being frustrated to being excited once again about working with the machine.

Ask Bud,
Thank you for your instructions. I will be using that info on future scanned items. When I enlarged my scans and looked at them closely in PE I found there was a lot of clean up and modifications I needed to do. I will use that scan for practice cleanup and modifications. On future scans I will utilize a grid to determine the scanning area and to refer to in laying out the pattern.

Thanks again,
Mark

[Burl Source]

Now there are a couple more things I need to figure out. I will be reading through the software manual and tips to see if I can find a solution. If anyone would like to give advice or any directions please make a post. I really appreciate the help.

#1 How to make countersunk holes for the screws. Looking at the takeoff grips I have it looks like the largest hole matches the carved pattern. Measuring from the outer surface about 1/16" down the hole needs to be smaller by just over 1/16". I am assuming this is to hold the head of the mounting screws.

http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac219/burlsource/dec/pg003.jpg

#2 The backsides of the grips will need to be grooved for the safety and ? The grip to the left looks to be about 1/8" deep and the one on right about 1/16". I need to figure out how to carve these out of the backside and how to do a cut path to cut each grip out of the board. In summary; how to set up the project to do the carving on the backs and then be able to flip the board to carve the fronts and then cut out the grips utilizing tabs. I hope I am making sense here.

http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac219/burlsource/dec/pg004.jpg

Once again, any help, advice or encouragement is greatly appreciated. I'm not dumb, .... but maybe a slow learner. I just started experimenting with the machine a couple days ago. You guys are helping to speed up the learning process immensely. Thank You.

[AskBud]

Now there are a couple more things I need to figure out. I will be reading through the software manual and tips to see if I can find a solution. If anyone would like to give advice or any directions please make a post. I really appreciate the help.

#1 How to make countersunk holes for the screws. Looking at the takeoff grips I have it looks like the largest hole matches the carved pattern. Measuring from the outer surface about 1/16" down the hole needs to be smaller by just over 1/16". I am assuming this is to hold the head of the mounting screws.

http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac219/burlsource/dec/pg003.jpg

#2 The backsides of the grips will need to be grooved for the safety and ? The grip to the left looks to be about 1/8" deep and the one on right about 1/16". I need to figure out how to carve these out of the backside and how to do a cut path to cut each grip out of the board. In summary; how to set up the project to do the carving on the backs and then be able to flip the board to carve the fronts and then cut out the grips utilizing tabs. I hope I am making sense here.

http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac219/burlsource/dec/pg004.jpg

Once again, any help, advice or encouragement is greatly appreciated. I'm not dumb, .... but maybe a slow learner. I just started experimenting with the machine a couple days ago. You guys are helping to speed up the learning process immensely. Thank You.
Since you have the pattern for the front, (I'll bet you can use your scan) I would try this:
A) Place small drill holes on the front (Temporary reference) where the screws go.
B) Outline your pattern and apply your Cut-Path (The cut-path applies tabs, you just do not see them in designer).
With the above in place,
C) open the back design.
D) Apply the proper drill holes.
E) Apply/design your pockets/grooves Avoid Raster carves, if you can. It may depend upon the bits you have on hand.
F) If your holes are "Countersunk", on the back, you will need to determine if you need a "V" bit, Bull Nose, or Flat bit, to attain the proper contour. Depending on your choice, you may be applying a Drill or Vector function.
G) Last, go back to the Front and remove your temporary drill holes.

Just translate what you would do, if you were carving them by hand.
AskBud

[Burl Source]

Thank You AskBud.
I will do it just as you said. Thank You for the step by step directions. Sounds easy enough.
Thanks again, Mark

The cut out and back pockets were simple to do with your instructions. Thanks

[PCW]

Also normally on the back of my grips all I do is file a slot for the plunger tube on the left grip.

If you want to make things real easy edit the pattern to show only pilot holes and get you one of these step bits. It drills the center screw hole and countersinks the the lager opening all in one shot. Especially designed for drilling the screw holes on handguns grips.


40986

If you want to be dead nuts on ever time you need this template and you can almost do it blind folded. I use this also to outline the slabs for cutting them out with the band saw when I do them by hand. Makes a perfect grip every time.

40987

Sometimes it easier to use hand tools instead the machine.

[Burl Source]

Mark,

Sounds like Bud has you on the right track. Below find MPW files that will allow you to edit the patterns with pattern editor.

Thank You for sending the MPW files.
The jigs and countersink bits look like really good tools to have. Is there somewhere they can be purchased online?

Where I work I get requests to make 1911 grips pretty regular so I need to get good at making them. I really appreciate all the help from you guys.
Thanks again, Mark

[PCW]

Check you PM I sent you some information.

[Burl Source]

Check you PM I sent you some information.
I read the PMs. Thank You for the new files and the info for the jigs.

I just carved with the new files you made for me Dan.
Thank You. It worked out great.

The photo shows what I just carved. The wood is eucalyptus with a little sapwood area. The different colors make the photo look funny but the grips carved just right.

http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac219/burlsource/dec/g001.jpg

[Burl Source]

When I carved this time I used a single piece that was 2 x 10 inches instead of 2, 5 inch pieces. I placed this in the sled for carving. Some of the wood I will be using for grips can be pretty expensive so I wanted to have as little waste as possible. Here is what was left over.

http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac219/burlsource/dec/g003.jpg

The piece I used was slightly thicker than the depth of the carving. When I was done carving I took out the 10 inch piece and ran it through my drum sander. Just a few passes sanding the backside and both grips dropped out of the 10 inch piece. In the future I will be doing a couple modifications to the backside and will do the grips with cutouts instead of sanding through the backside. That is when I will be utilizing info provided by AskBud.

Here are the 2 grips. Not an exact match with the grain and colors, but pretty close. Next time I will pay closer attention when orienting the grain on the piece I cut to fit into the carving sled.

http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac219/burlsource/dec/g002.jpg

Now I need to take some time with the files Dan provided and work on some modifications I want to experiment with.

[PCW]

Mark,

Looking good.... Something I do as well and you could do with the CW. To make a set bookmarked I have used 3/4 inch stock (5" X 2" X.750) ripped them to say around.300. Also when you do a cutout you may want to do a .080 inset and choose flip cut. This will give you a little room for sanding the edges. This setting is on the cut-out pop up screen. Keep up the nice work and can't wait to see some of that burl carved.

[Burl Source]

After I have everything perfected I will be breaking into my stash. I set aside a few sets of Ironwood Burl scales as well as a mix of different types of burl that I had stabilized by K&G. As I am able to do things correctly I will post photos.

Thanks again for all the good help.
Mark

[Burl Source]

I have been practicing and think I almost have things down pat.
Here are 2 sets, walnut burl and sycamore.

http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac219/burlsource/january/g003.jpg

http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac219/burlsource/january/g004-1.jpg

Now if I could just learn to take better photos.

[PCW]

Now that's what we are talking about. Love the burl.
You should put a link to your website in your signature.

[liquidguitars]

looks good... nice job.

[geekviking]

Could you post the final patterns for us, and also did you get the backsides notched?

Beautiful job by the way!

[Burl Source]

Sorry, I haven't been here for a while.
I am currently doing the backside of the grips by hand.
The pattern I am using for the front is from a scan I did with some grips provided to me by a gunsmith friend. Unfortunately the surface of my scans are about as smooth as asphalt. I must be doing something wrong but everything I scan has a very rough surface even on the best settings. I have just been using the carving like a rough preform and finish shaping by hand. Kept the pattern a little oversized to make up for the materials I still have to remove. I don't know how to post a pattern file. Maybe someone knows of a thread that tells how.

[PCW]

Can you smooth them out in pattern editor. If you need some help shoot me a PM.

[Burl Source]

Blur seemed to work best for smoothing them out. Now I need to carve them to see what happens.
Thank You Dan!

[vandel]

Burl Source, have you got your 1911 grips perfected yet? This thread has good info but I think some info passed was in a PM or because I don't have the machine yet, I'm not following the info. What source are you using for your wood? I've only found arizonaironwood.com. I'm wanting to stick with Ironwood and Burls due to the beauty of it but are you finding the Ironwood wearing out the CW bits too fast?

Vandel

[Burl Source]

Burl Source, have you got your 1911 grips perfected yet? This thread has good info but I think some info passed was in a PM or because I don't have the machine yet, I'm not following the info. What source are you using for your wood? I've only found arizonaironwood.com. I'm wanting to stick with Ironwood and Burls due to the beauty of it but are you finding the Ironwood wearing out the CW bits too fast?

Vandel

I am still working out a few issues before I have the process going how I want it to go. It is not issues with the machine but with my ignorance. I seem to be a slow learner. I haven't carved any ironwood yet, but it is tough stuff. I know when I cut it on my bandsaw the blade life is a lot shorter. As for wood suppliers, that is what I am. I supply wood to custom knifemakers but the same sort works for pistol grips as well.

[jab73180]

I am still working out a few issues before I have the process going how I want it to go. It is not issues with the machine but with my ignorance. I seem to be a slow learner. I haven't carved any ironwood yet, but it is tough stuff. I know when I cut it on my bandsaw the blade life is a lot shorter. As for wood suppliers, that is what I am. I supply wood to custom knifemakers but the same sort works for pistol grips as well.

So how is the process now? I am looking to carve some grips too. Any way you would share your ptn?

-Jason

[Roy P.]

If anyone is interested, I made patterns to carve and checker 1911 grips. You need the Conforming Vectors software and a 60-degree conic bit for the checkering. There's a picture on my web page at http://pineau.net/pistolgrips.

[jab73180]

If anyone is interested, I made patterns to carve and checker 1911 grips. You need the Conforming Vectors software and a 60-degree conic bit for the checkering. There's a picture on my web page at http://pineau.net/pistolgrips.

<--------- interested.

-Jason

[chebytrk]

me too........ interested.

[unitedcases]

More than interested. Been trying to get these right for some time now. Never can seem to get the depth and holes and you get the idea.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

[fwharris]

Put me on the list also.. Great looking grips on your site!!!

[b.sumner47]

Please put me on the list. Thanks for sharing.


Capt Barry

[jaustin]

working on a set right know, I would like to be add to the list.

I looked at your site Nice work,
Did you hand carve or use the carvewright for the Llama grips? I have a llama .22 that i will try to make next.
thanks
John

[cr8tor]

Trying my hand at grips, you have files or info that would help out and save time.

[cr8tor]

I'm interested, can you send the files?