Don't Stay Under Rollers

[carlbeck]

40542405434054440545I am confused. I load a 7.5” x 12 1/16” board on my sled (See Picture) for this project. (See picture). I selected “Stay Under the Rollers” and the board measurement came back as 12.132/ 19.000 and a message: 1) Scales to fit. (See Picture)

I pushed STOP, reloaded the sled and started it again but this time for “Stay Under The Rollers, I selected: NO. This time after measurement I go 19.134/ 1900 and 1) Keep Original Size. (See Picture) I selected 1 and everything worked as expected for my design.

One thing I notice is the Board is about 1/16 inch thicker than the Plywood Spacers on each end of the Board. My Spacers are 3 9/16 inches wide each. I do this because sometimes Icut very close to the end of my work piece and don’t want the carving to gointo the spacer.

[Digitalwoodshop]

If you read tips and tricks it will explain the 7 inch rule of wood and sleds and carrier boards.

Your spacers or end boards should be the same thickness as the piece that is going to be cut. If not the higher board will act as a speed bump and lift the head and you will get a cutting level change 3.5 inches on both ends of your art. OR if the bump is high enough it will stall the X Axis or SNAP the X Plastic Gear. Use copy paper under your board to make it level.

X measurement is all about the Brass Roller. I recommend using masking tape on the carrier board to act as a rack and pinion letting the brass roller dig into the tape.

AL

[alan.galbraith]

The second photo shows your work piece should be 19 long. Therefore with the 7 inch rule your board should actually be 26 inches. I don't think that is what you inteneded. change your mpc to be 12 inches long.

[liquidguitars]

for a sled 3.5" tails are way too small and the 7 inch rule is just mamby pamby. I use 4" or bigger. 10" rule. 2 Ea. end tails 4" and 2" extra for screwing down the stock. if you pattern is 12" long make your sled 22.5" to 23" long. in Designer set your project size to 22" x the sleds y size subtract .25" load the sleds 4" tail under the out feed roller you just removed all the issues..

keep under rollers= no
keep the same = yes
place on corner = yes.

7" extra is just the mim amount from center roller to center roller so if your sled slips a small amount your foobar.

[carlbeck]

It was my understanding that in designer, I should make the board 7 inches longer than the end product. For example: I am making a plaque 12 inches long. In designer, I make it 19 inches with my design a little over 3 1/2 inches from each end. My carvings have come out as desired but am I doing it incorrectly?

[carlbeck]

If you read tips and tricks it will explain the 7 inch rule of wood and sleds and carrier boards.

Your spacers or end boards should be the same thickness as the piece that is going to be cut. If not the higher board will act as a speed bump and lift the head and you will get a cutting level change 3.5 inches on both ends of your art. OR if the bump is high enough it will stall the X Axis or SNAP the X Plastic Gear. Use copy paper under your board to make it level.

AL

My carvings do not have any indication of a level change. When I start my carvings I always jog to the surface of my work piece before it checks the surface. Before I do this I notice if I do not jog it would have checked on my 3 1/2 inch spacer. In designer, I always make the design board 7 inches longer than my work piece making room for the 3 1/2 inch spacer on my sled. Even if the work piece is slightly thicker than my spacers, I have had very good results.

[carlbeck]

for a sled 3.5" tails are way too small and the 7 inch rule is just mamby pamby. I use 4" or bigger. 10" rule. 2 Ea. end tails 4" and 2" extra for screwing down the stock. if you pattern is 12" long make your sled 22.5" to 23" long. in Designer set your project size to 22" x the sleds y size subtract .25" load the sleds 4" tail under the out feed roller you just removed all the issues..

keep under rollers= no
keep the same = yes
place on corner = yes.

7" extra is just the mim amount from center roller to center roller so if your sled slips a small amount your foobar.

I have never seen (place on corner ). I still have a question: If I select stay under the rollers, it seems to measure my work piece of 12 inches. If I select NO, it measures my work piece plus the total of my end spacers = 19 plus inches.

[AskBud]

I have never seen (place on corner ). I still have a question: If I select stay under the rollers, it seems to measure my work piece of 12 inches. If I select NO, it measures my work piece plus the total of my end spacers = 19 plus inches.
The "Place on corner" prompt usually appears when your actual board is "wider" than your design. If the wood is the same width as designer, you get an option of "place on end" instead.
AskBud

[liquidguitars]

To be clear, this is not a recommended formula for sleds design and construction.



The other way, that many folks use, is to make the design for the final size and then just place a board which is 7+ inches longer than your design (in this case, you would select the option to "Stay under rollers".




For making sleds I use:

I think one of the best ways to make a sled is to know your final size of the wood and add 10" overall for the sled, in Designer layout the same dimensions.
so if my wood stock was 12" I add 10" making Designer 22" long. if you like to see the outline of where your carving stock is mark the outline of your carving using a 1/16" bit .
place a piece of plywood that is 1/2" bigger overall than Designer and scribe the marks. you also can have the CW locate the end tails and sides before you laminate the top see below:

40568

[cnsranch]

It was my understanding that in designer, I should make the board 7 inches longer than the end product. For example: I am making a plaque 12 inches long. In designer, I make it 19 inches with my design a little over 3 1/2 inches from each end. My carvings have come out as desired but am I doing it incorrectly?

This is the heart of your problem/confusion. The machine needs to measure a board (or sled) that's at least 7" longer than the one in Designer, (that is, if you tell the machine to stay under the rollers) or you'll get the scale prompt.

The way you're doing it is ok, so long as 1) no part of your design/carve comes within 3.5" of either end, and 2) you tell the machine NOT to stay under the rollers (since you know it WILL, anyway).

Make sense?

[alan.galbraith]

CNSRANCH,

I haven't tried it that way yet, but will in the future. I have made only two sleds so far and make the sled 7" longer than my project board. I tell it stay under the roller, center on board, no to cut board. I guess there are many different ways to skin a cat.

[cnsranch]

CNSRANCH,

I make the sled 7" longer than my project board. I tell it stay under the roller, center on board, no to cut board.

Alan - that's the way I do it, too. Technically, though, you can still tell the machine NOT to stay under the rollers when the sled is that much longer than Designer's board, because you know it will, anyway.

Not trying to further confuse the issue - the whole deal has to do with the machine seeing more than 7" of lumber, or it will ask you to scale the project (again, unless you tell it NOT to stay under the rollers).

[liquidguitars]

This is the heart of your problem/confusion. The machine needs to measure a board (or sled) that's at least 7" longer than the one in Designer, (that is, if you tell the machine to stay under the rollers) or you'll get the scale prompt.


Jerry your a little off.. not including your sled in Designer is a bad idea all around. let get this straight people!!

1 3.5" tails on a sled is useless and counter productive. you can size them to 4" or 6" wide..
2. making a pattern in Designer for a sled without including the sled dimensions is a novice idea and can lead to damage to the CW.
3. 7 inches is just the min requirement and has nothing to do with the logic of the CW it could be 8" 9" 10" extra. more rollor room will make a better part with less sniping like with using a power planer or jointer.

[cnsranch]

Jerry your a little off.. not inculding your seld in Designer is a bad idea all around.

Why, LG???

[liquidguitars]

The first thing that come to mind is peace of mind to visually see all the components of your sled like wood screws in Designer is priceless.

Here is my "sled building design" I run this on a single piece of slightly over-sized CDX plywood using the 1/16 bit scribed to about .032" deep. the next step is to add the top wood. I been using this design for over two years carving a load of parts.

Once you let the CW layout your sled you will tell yourself "wow that was simple"

[alan.galbraith]

You boys are getting me totally confused, but then again, that ain't hard. I don't necessarily stay at 7" exactly it could be more. So let's say your project you really want to be 10", you either make the board 17" and waste the 7" or you put it on the sled that is 7" inches longer and you don't waste the wood. If you put in designer that the project is 17" when you want 10", won't the machine look for 24" now. I'll have to give it a try and see what happens.

[Digitalwoodshop]

OR you do like I do.... Use Place on end every time, add a 4 inch dead area to the right side of designer, TAPE a 4 inch board on the end of your board, and leave the board LONG and cut the project off the board with a saw. That is Frugal Use of WOOD.

I have a Dowel that I use to press the 4 inch board down onto the brass roller if I get a error for a loose board.

AL

[liquidguitars]

My focus is only on making a parts sleds, and I have little to do with non sled use.. if you build a sled, I make it longer by 10" than my finished part.. 4" tails x 2 and 1" x2 room to screw down the board.

After loading the sleds 4" tail under the out feed roller the board sensor will magicaly read the tales dimension in Y without any dead spots, as a added bonus you can test the pressure of the table to sled as it sits in the unit by lifting up a small amount. If you have correct pressure the board will only sightly lift.

The machine will ask you a few questions.

stay under rollers = no
keep the same= yes
place on corner = yes "center will work" but be careful".
cut to size = no

[cnsranch]

If you put in designer that the project is 17" when you want 10", won't the machine look for 24" now.

It will look for the additional 7" (or ask you to scale the project) only if you tell it to stay under the rollers.

[badger2424]

Alan, you don't change the dimensions of your project, keep those the same size, just add the sled in so it will stay under the the rollers. For example, your project is 10" long by 5" wide, with the sled your total dimensions are say 20"x 9" (with 2" rails on top and bottom), keep your design 10x5 but have a board dimension of 20x9 to account for the sled.

[carlbeck]

Here is a SketchUp Design that I use for my sled. The total sled base is 36" x 14". I cut two 3 5/8" wide CW Spacers for each end of my work piece. In this example, my work piece is 12" x 7 /4". The second CW Spacer is screwed to the base tightly against the work piece. CW will measure the length as 3 5/8 + 12 + 3 5/8 = 19 1/4". Since I started this post, I made this sled and specify NOT to stay under the rollers. My CW Designer board is specified at 19" (I don't care about the extra 1/4" because it's there in case I want to carve close to the end of my work piece.) I specify to position my design in the center and not stay under the rollers. I used it today for two carvings that were 12" long and it worked great. I use the extra long base for my sled so I can simply move the second CW Spacer and make carving up to 36 inches long minus the 7 1/4" for the spacers and up to 14 inches wide. This is what I have learned with the answeres to this posting. I am including a picture from SketchUp of my sled.

Thank you, everyone for your input.40583

[cnsranch]

Two questions, Carl -

1) So, the machine stops measuring at the end of the "Spacer", not the end of the sled? (I know it starts looking for the end of the board once it leaves the roller).

2). I assume you don't have any "Spacers" along the edges, so I assume you jog to position so the machine can measure along the "Spacer" on one end?

[liquidguitars]

Some of the newer updates use the board sensor to check z from distance to board. Sometimes this requires a end block.

[carlbeck]

Yes. The machine measures to the edge of the spacers on each end. In my example, it would actully measure 19 1/4 inches because my CW spacers are 3 5/8 inches each. In real life it will be somewhere close to that. My table saw fence is pretty good but it will be a few thousnads off.

When I start, the machine normally stops to measure surface height about 3/16 to 1/4 inch onto the spacer. I jog it to make a surface check a little inside the corner of the work piece. Typically about 1/4 inch in from the end and 1/4 inch in from the side. (I just eyeball it)

The base of my sled is 1/2 inch MDF. If I want to carve something that is 1/2 inch thick all I have to do is change the CW spacers to 1/2 inch thick.