sensor menu tests, not registering any

[MGR]

On the lcd menu for checking sensors it apparently is not reading any of the sensors.
Initially had problems with board sensor; cleaned; then the cut motor started jiggling/spin while cranking the head up or down.
I cleaned and continuity tested the cover sensors and they appear to be fine but are not showing any indication of operating on the LCD menu along with all other sensor menu functions.

Did notice that while scrolling through the sensor test menu that upon selecting board sensor test the LCD menu text becomes dim and a faint hi-pitch hum can be heard.
not sure if there is any corilation to any other sensor tests not reading at all.

Head Is adjusted properly and L2 /C1 capasitors checked for customary breakage points and are fine( no breaks).

room temp 70.

Any suddgestions as to what cause may be?
Thanks, Mike

[Digitalwoodshop]

Pinched wire in the board sensor cable... from pulling it down to change sensor....

Try unplugging the sensor on the top circuit board to see if you can now read the other sensors... Pulling the cable UP can un short it.... But replacement is needed....

AL

[liquidguitars]

they appear to be fine but are not showing any indication of operating on the LCD menu along with all other sensor menu functions.



This would be to simple, but contrast wheel need adjusting?

also if your FCC cable is damaged you will not see readings in the sensors.

[MGR]

Hi guys, thankyou for responses,
Contrast adjust I'm pretty shure is fine because it only dims when selecting board sensor menu item; at restart all menus crystal clear again and though I did try to adjust with no luck.
Al's sudgestion seems to make sence and I will look into closer because I do recall seeing the wires on the back of the truck looking similar to one of Al's photos but didn't want to completly dissaemble that far (fantastic shots Sir).
Also phil at CW support replied to one of my emails- "5v short send it in to CW or look into yourself", I'm guessing a pinched wire may be the causing the 5V short on that board sensor. I will post findings upon further investigation.
Thankyou all for now. -Mike

[Digitalwoodshop]

Thanks Mike..... for the record.... The first time it happened with my first machine in 2007 under warranty I did NOT have a clue.... My machine made 2 trips to Texas... It has more Frequent Flier Miles than I do..... Second time was a stripped square on top of the Truck.... I also noted with the shorted wire that if you select Z or Y Data it would stay 0000 and when moving the Axis the numbers did not change. This told me that the Data Bus was locked up or something like that...... The vibration of the QC caused the sharp edge to cut into the insulation.

The second time it happened to my 2nd machine purchased used and broken, I took it apart as it was time to learn... Taking pictures along the way to help others.... I always recommend purchasing 2 cables and keep one to troubleshoot a bad sensor by just plugging the other cable in the top.... I saw that in one picture I posted I had the Z Motor removed in my earlier post... You don't need to remove the Z Motor.... But you need to remove the Y Truck..... Not for the faint of heart.... The trick is to not snap the bearing screws.... And remember that the cam bearing must be all the way engaged, or the fully closed or tight position to be properly adjusted... The other trick to the bearings is to snug then up and then back off the wrench 1/8 of a turn before it most closed position.... Then when you tighten the last 1/8 turn you position it correct and also have it tight.... TOO TIGHT and SNAP....

It's Metric and most hardware stores have the screws. Watch for a TOO LONG screw interfering on the other side of the mounting plate.

So I was a Nu bee once too..... I too posted lots of questions..... Being a Former Navy Electronics Instructor I love helping....

After this fault, I bought some Fiber Optic Cable on eBay and was planning to remove the next shorted wire and slide 3 pieces of thick fiber optic cable down the track. Attach the fiber cable to a old plastic board sensor, 2 LED's and a Receiver in the middle..... Then attach the end of the optic cable to the LED's and Sensor with Shrink Tube.... The Board Sensor would be located on top next to the Z...... That would fix the broken LED problem that we had 2 years ago from vibration.... LHR fixed the Board Sensor's by gluing them.... Ending Dust on the inside of the lens and broken LED's... Good Job !!!

Good Luck,

AL

[MGR]

Found "FFC cable/wire" (Parts list assy#37 ?) was partially detached from "head termination electronic board assembly" (Part assy#44). Re-seated wire in board and sensor menu activity back to normal.

Still encountering the jiggle/spin effect of the chuck while cranking head up or down, but only with the cover in closed position.
Since the left switch on the Cover I believe is for cover open and closed actuation, is it possible the "AC interupt micro switch" (Part assy#167) on the right might be at fault even though continuity tests indicate both working properly?
Does anyone know how the X-Termination board does or doesn't interact with this switch and cut motor? Can the problem lie there perhaps?

thanks -Mike

[Digitalwoodshop]

Mike,

GREAT JOB !!!!!! One time I failed to place that black plastic cap on the Z Motor holding the thick FSC Cable and while carving the cable drooped and snagged something and tore the cable out under power at a down angle.... It caused the SERVO Motor to SHORT OUT.... I had a few motors and was able to change it and was back up and running.... But I learned my lesson..... USE the black plastic FSC Cable Holder....



I have had 3 Broken C1 Caps on 4 machines... In early cases, opening and closing the cover caused the cut motor to start or run for a few seconds... I posted on this topic and it is possible LHR addressed it with software, was never sure.... But with 2 and 3 the motor just failed to start....

The X Termination Board does 2 things.... It routes the X Drive Signals and with the Q1 Transistor and C1 Cap, turns on and off the Cut Motor...... Look for a LOOSE or Broken C1...... It is a .1 MF 300 Volt Cap. It can be replaced with the more common .1MF 400 volt..... MF is Micro Farad. The 400 volt has slightly thicker legs but a person skilled with a Soldering Iron could fix it easily.... The trick is to just bend and break off the other leg... It is easier to remove a old component if you cut the part free just leaving the old leg soldered in the circuit board. I person rushing this could cause the solder pad to be torn off the circuit board as it is only glued to the Epoxy Board.

Good Luck,

AL

I posted a picture showing the FSC Cable, Black Cable Holder and masking tape as a cable support rather than glue as in the production model. I have not posted this picture in a few years... Last time I posted it, I got a PM asking me what the word VICE was..... Well.... In my world travels of 27 countries in the Navy I picked up that word to mean "Rather Than..."..... Sorry for the Slang..... Another Slang word that local people here shake there heads over..... Is my use of.... "I will Pass..." Equal to "No Thank You, I don't want it...."

[liquidguitars]

FCC cable.. That's the fix then..



Still encountering the jiggle/spin effect of the chuck while cranking head up or down, but only with the cover in closed position.


When the AC switch on the lid " far right" is opened and closed " in this case could be you cranking the table" the motor will power up or "pulse" for a sec I think thats normal, as a test you can open and close the contact on the cover switch to see.

[MGR]

I would say yes but it was the FFC cable that was dislodged.

I believe you may be speaking of a different Cable/ribbon "FCC"

Clarification on term definitions would be helpful FFC,FCC,FSC or any others?
but I'm shure we're not all speaking of the same Cable/ribbon. Correct?

As for the chuck jiggle,
Initially my main problem was Board sensor related and varrious stall errors with the machine powering off.
No Jiggling whatsoever at the time those errors began.
I ran into these problems now being discussed while troubleshooting the board sensor and stall/power issues.
On (10/21) I ordered a new Xtermination board based on some info recieved
from a CW tech ("Random XYZ stall Error" PDF).

PDF File: page 5 letter F;

F. Checking the AC safety switch with a voltmeter.
Verify that the machine is unplugged........Place the probe tips on each of the switch terminals and check for
continuity between them when the switch is depressed. Is there continuity between
the terminals?
YES: Likely cause is a bad X-termination electronics board. Send customer an Xtermination
electronics board (A2074).

NO: bad switch or needs cleaning.

When I recieve the parts I will install and give update here.
-Mike

[liquidguitars]

I believe you may be speaking of a different Cable/ribbon "FCC"


no.



As for the chuck jiggle,
Initially my main problem was Board sensor related and varrious stall errors with the machine powering off.
No Jiggling whatsoever at the time those errors began.



Open and close your hood 10 times with the power on and you get a small amount of current to the cut motor, i think has something to do with the caps discharging, Al would know better than me.
but this would not shut down your unit.

[Digitalwoodshop]

I agree with LG.. Sometimes you do get a jerk of the chuck closing the cover... and yes, I believe it is a Cap Discharging on the X Termination Board.

Here is a picture of the FSC Cable.... Flat 14 pin.

AL

[MGR]

In my case It's not only doing it when just closing the cover but continually with the cover closed while cranking the head up or down.
still waiting to recieve Xterm board, has not arrived yet.

[MGR]

10-29-10 Recieved new X term board and installed. Results are the same for the Chuck jerking/jiggle and also still encountering random axis stalls with machine powering OFF after error message on LCD.
Any other sudggestions?

In terms of the initial question of this thread "Sensor menu tests, not registering any". That issue has been solved by locating slightly dislodged FFC Cable/ribbon and firmly re-seating it at it's connection.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Based on what you just posted, I am thinking you have a bad L2 on the Power Supply Board.... A Common Problem....

Search "L2 Power Supply" using the " and " for pictures.

AL

[MGR]

Can the L2 be tested with an ohm meter? the solder connections appear to be solid I checked with ohm meter.
Where can I purchase the L2 if I have to replace It?
Or do I just buy a whole new power supply from LHR?

[Digitalwoodshop]

The L2 coil breaks off within the board between the bottom of the board where it is bent over and the surface of the top of the board, the side that the L2 is on.... It can be re soldered by someone who is good at soldering.

AL

[MGR]

Solution for Board sensor test not registering and Solution for chuck Jiggle/Jerk/spin: Solved

A) Dislodged FFC Cable/ribbon at board connection.

B) Solution for chuck Jiggle/Jerk/spin:
After hours of investigation it turns out that the C2 grey square box on the power supply board (under the metal plate near L2 coil area) had a break in the copper leg and was not visible, but was so close and tight to the board that it would be touching just enough to operate the machine and start to bounce/vibrate when running or operating the head crank. That grey box may in some way be involved with power to the cut motor AC switch?.
By tapping on the various transistors/components on the board I was fortunately able to detect a slight clicking/looseness of the C2 grey box at fault.
Solder connections from underneath were fine.

REPAIR:
Making note of the orientation of component legs I carefully removed with soldering Iron.
I drilled a small hole in the epoxy next to the broken leg and inserted a new copper wire (same size) re-soldered to existing remnant of old leg and soldered both legs back to board.
Also cut and placed 4 approx-1/16" thick vinyl washers between Power supply Board mounting screw legs and board to hopefully help reduce vibration.
Refired machine and ran small 2 min job and all appears to be operating fine for now.

Not sure of technical name for grey box component. Anyone?

Thank you for all the feedback from both forum participants and CW.
-Mike

[Digitalwoodshop]

GOOD JOB !!!!!

I am looking at the C2 and it is a Ceramic Capacitor on the other end of the metal box that the L2 is on the other end.... There are 3 Coils in there like the L2. Thinking the computer Power Supply Voltage has 2 Coils for better filtering.

Here is a webpage with great info on how our power supply works in general.

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Anatomy-of-Switching-Power-Supplies/327/1

AL