Bits get broken all the time

[Itsmeagain]

The more I used this machine the more frustrated I became. We've replaced about five or six 1/6 bits already. Every time when we tried to cut simple things like a sword or something, the bit would break after 10 or 15 minutes.

Any suggestions?

[Ike]

You say you are using the 1/16th bit is cut out things like swords or carve? If you are using it for a cutting bit then that is the problem. The 1/16th is a carving bit, there is a cutting about the same size, but is not tapered. And you can adjust the cutting depth to make as many passes you deem necessary.

Ike

[Itsmeagain]

Sorry, I meant to say 1/8 bit.

While having so many problems with this machines, I decided to do a little search on the Internet and this is what I found (http://woodworking.about.com/b/2007/10/06/carvewright-wood-carving-machine-review.htm). Not so sure how valid it is but it makes me feel I'm not alone.

[Itsmeagain]

I should add that the board is a pine wood.

[Ike]

Well like I said, you can set the bit to cut at as many passes as you want and how deep you want. I know you are using 1/4" material, sometimes pine is sappy and burns. Where are the bits breaking? It may be going too deep, so if the bits are breaking towards the top because it is too deep. Then if you set it too shallow it may be binding and with the high heat with pine they break. I too have had problems with the LHR bits breaking. I have never had a 1/16th cutting bit I bought from Ron Justice break.

I hope that may help?

Ike

[Ike]

You know another thought do you get a lot of check cut motor errors? If so since there is no way for us to set the speed of the cutting bit the motor is suppose to be adjusted by the cpu. Have you noticed any motor speed changes? If you get a ccm error during a cut it will normally adjust when you restart it.

Ike

[Itsmeagain]

The bit never breaks at the tip. It breaks close to where it goes into the head.

[Itsmeagain]

You know another thought do you get a lot of check cut motor errors? If so since there is no way for us to set the speed of the cutting bit the motor is suppose to be adjusted by the cpu. Have you noticed any motor speed changes? If you get a ccm error during a cut it will normally adjust when you restart it.

Ike
Never get any motor errors. It works fine until 5 or 10 minutes later, the bit was broken and the motor still keeps going.

[Ike]

The bit never breaks at the tip. It breaks close to where it goes into the head.

Then maybe it is not set correctly. What carving chuck do you have? The original quick release or the "Rock" or Carvetight? With the QC the allen screw is to tighten against the slotted area in the bit. If you have a slotted bit and using the "Rock" then the screw is not to be in the slotted are. With the CT if you have 1/2" bit then it should be in the chuck until the stop touches. The same if you have the 1/4' adapter.

My other thought is again the bit is cutting too deep so I suggest setting bit to cut say 1/8" and make 2 passes or 5/16th to barely go through the board.

Ike

[Itsmeagain]

We still use the original quick release. How can it be set incorrectly? If it's not set properly in the quick release, the bit would fall off. So I guess I'm not sure what you mean it may not be set correctly. I have tried using several board thickness including from 1/4 to 1" and 1.5" and the bit continues to break. At about $50 a pop, 5 bits is a lot of money just for bit and the project didn't even get completed before the bit was broken.

[henry1]

We still use the original quick release. How can it be set incorrectly? If it's not set properly in the quick release, the bit would fall off. So I guess I'm not sure what you mean it may not be set correctly. I have tried using several board thickness including from 1/4 to 1" and 1.5" and the bit continues to break. At about $50 a pop, 5 bits is a lot of money just for bit and the project didn't even get completed before the bit was broken.
You should get the rock chuck here is the web site

www.cw-parts.com (http://www.cw-parts.com/)

[AskBud]

Never get any motor errors. It works fine until 5 or 10 minutes later, the bit was broken and the motor still keeps going.
If you would, post your MPC, attach a picture showing where the bit is on the wood when it breaks, and tell us what chuck you are using.

Also, while you are waiting on more replies, check the truck and see that there is no wiggle/movement clockwise/counter-clockwise, or forward (away from the rail) or back (into the rail). Loose trucks can be as bad as hard wood or bad placement in the QC adapter.
AskBud

[Ike]

We still use the original quick release. How can it be set incorrectly? If it's not set properly in the quick release, the bit would fall off. So I guess I'm not sure what you mean it may not be set correctly. I have tried using several board thickness including from 1/4 to 1" and 1.5" and the bit continues to break. At about $50 a pop, 5 bits is a lot of money just for bit and the project didn't even get completed before the bit was broken.

Not inserting the QC, but inserting the bit correctly into the QC. The QC bits have a slot and with one the 2 screws they are to be tighten into that slot. Now it sounds like you buying the bits already installed into the bit holder? So it should be correctly installed. The next thing would be the balance of the QC, have you noticed any BB marks in your bit holders? Have you noticed any vibration in the flex shaft? Check your flex shaft at each end for wear, plus for any excessive heat.

You might want to upgrade your chuck to a CT or if you can still get a Rock a Rock! Both chucks are good in my opinion, but get the 1/4" adapter for the CT because it comes in a 1/2" chuck and if you want to use 1/4" bits you need the adapter. The same with the Rock or you can buy the 1/4" Rock.

Well my friend I really can't think of anything else besides the QC being unbalanced or the bits not being correctly inserted. Maybe another member will have a better ideal?

Ike

[Itsmeagain]

Not inserting the QC, but inserting the bit correctly into the QC. The QC bits have a slot and with one the 2 screws they are to be tighten into that slot. Now it sounds like you buying the bits already installed into the bit holder? So it should be correctly installed. The next thing would be the balance of the QC, have you noticed any BB marks in your bit holders? Have you noticed any vibration in the flex shaft? Check your flex shaft at each end for wear, plus for any excessive heat.

You might want to upgrade your chuck to a CT or if you can still get a Rock a Rock! Both chucks are good in my opinion, but get the 1/4" adapter for the CT because it comes in a 1/2" chuck and if you want to use 1/4" bits you need the adapter. The same with the Rock or you can buy the 1/4" Rock.

Well my friend I really can't think of anything else besides the QC being unbalanced or the bits not being correctly inserted. Maybe another member will have a better ideal?

Ike

By the way, what is a QC? And yes, we purchased the bit that came with the holder already. All we do is slide it into the CarveWright head and that's it. There is no BB marks, and the heat was not that bad. It was pretty cool actually. What is a "flex shaft"?

[Digitalwoodshop]

First things first... The Anti CW Blog is dated 2007 so I dismiss it as out of date and yes, in the beginning there WERE problems.... ALL have been addressed and corrected by LHR.

Since you are still using the QC then we should start there.... Look at every broken bit holder and look for BB Marks on the bit holders. My guess is you have a BAD QC and have not noticed it... That is the number 1 reason for breaking the bits..... And if you put a new bit and bit holder into a BAD QC it will still flop around and cause cutting problems. You must replace the QC and all bit holders.... If you replace just the QC or Just the Bit Holder then you STILL have a problem... For the Cost of the QC and Bit holders I recommend you replace the QC with either the Carve Tite or the Rock...

So with that said, even I have broken bits.... Snapped 2 in one project.... First though the problem was a increase in the feed rate between 1.156 and 1.171 but was corrected by LHR that I was wrong. Looking at other options, I was using a .4 two pass cut in 3/4 inch clear pine. Switched to .27 three pass and no problem.

Found my Kiln Dried board was not as dry as I thought... A new supplier at 1/2 the price.... When I cut some text with a 3/8 inch end mill .2 deep, later the text looked like it was cut with a dovetail bit... The inner board had dried and shrunk.... It was still too wet.... So that was the real reason why I broke the bits.....

I will need to buy the wood in bulk and post dry it in the shop for a while.... And find my moisture meter....

SO we have covered the QC and Wood Changes... Next is the Sand Paper Belts.... It is possible that the belts are clogged and some slippage is happening... I had worn belts when I broke the bits.... Change your Belts....

Next is masking Tape on the Brass Roller Track.... You will see that the brass roller will leave indentations in the tape making a Rack and Pinion between the board and the brass roller.... The X Drive has the torque to snap the bit easily and the meshing of the brass roller to the board is a GOOD THING.....

Next is head LEVEL..... A few ways to check this.... Measure it.... OR use the Z Data and touch the board in 3 places left to right.... Or AskBud's method that I really like.... Place 2 strips of paper on each side of the board and crank down and pull on the paper.... Release the head slightly and tug again.. When one side releases early you have a unlevel head....

Then there is your Cut Motor... Look at the hours.... If you have anything between 250 and 299.... Your brushes are SHORT and could cause the motor to loose power during the cut and the machine keep on going and snap the bit....

Then there could be a bad Y Bearing in the Y Gear Box.... Causing the Big Y Gear to flop around.... Needs replacement at about 500 hours....

Then there could be a loose bearing on the Z..... Do the tug in every direction looking for movement....

Good Luck....

AL

[Itsmeagain]

If you would, post your MPC, attach a picture showing where the bit is on the wood when it breaks, and tell us what chuck you are using.

Also, while you are waiting on more replies, check the truck and see that there is no wiggle/movement clockwise/counter-clockwise, or forward (away from the rail) or back (into the rail). Loose trucks can be as bad as hard wood or bad placement in the QC adapter.
AskBud
A bit too late now. We threw the broken bit away...not sure if we still kept any. And, what is a "truck"?

[Digitalwoodshop]

I type too slow......

The Flex is the Drive Cable between the motor and the Motor and the Z Truck....

Were you using Masking Tape on the bottom of the board at the brass roller? That would help...

Also be sure to read the tips and tricks for lots of great info about the machine.....

This could all be "Pilot Error" with something as simple as the board not staying under the rollers and when it pops up only being held by one roller it binds the bit and it snaps....

Read about the 7 inch rule of wood and Carrier Boards and Sleds.... And Frugal Use of Wood.... and staying under the rollers so the board stays FLAT to the table.

AL

[Digitalwoodshop]

You can remove the broken bit form the bit holders with heat and re use them......

The Truck is the Y - Left and Right or Z - Up and Down assembly.... The metal that a belt is moving left and right or up and down...

Tips and Tricks..... That will HELP....

AL

[Fletcher]

Are you using tabs to hold the cut-out pieces in place? The piece itself vibrating could pinch the cutter and break it. Also, have you tried setting the "maximum pass depth" to 0.2"? If you are trying to cut all the way through in one pass it can lead to chatter simply because too much of the cutting edge is in contact at once - especially when a cutter is turning a 90 degree corner, in which case it can be in contact with two "walls" at once. Chatter like that can break bits too...

[Itsmeagain]

You can remove the broken bit form the bit holders with heat and re use them......

The Truck is the Y - Left and Right or Z - Up and Down assembly.... The metal that a belt is moving left and right or up and down...

Tips and Tricks..... That will HELP....

AL

Yes, we tried it once but we couldn't get it to tighten it well enough. Anyway, that's not the problem. The problem is that the big got broken before it reaches the bit holder.

[Itsmeagain]

Are you using tabs to hold the cut-out pieces in place? The piece itself vibrating could pinch the cutter and break it. Also, have you tried setting the "maximum pass depth" to 0.2"? If you are trying to cut all the way through in one pass it can lead to chatter simply because too much of the cutting edge is in contact at once - especially when a cutter is turning a 90 degree corner, in which case it can be in contact with two "walls" at once. Chatter like that can break bits too...
Yes, we use tabs to hold the cut out piece. And no, we have not tried using "maximum pass depth".

[Itsmeagain]

I type too slow......

The Flex is the Drive Cable between the motor and the Motor and the Z Truck....

Were you using Masking Tape on the bottom of the board at the brass roller? That would help...

Also be sure to read the tips and tricks for lots of great info about the machine.....

This could all be "Pilot Error" with something as simple as the board not staying under the rollers and when it pops up only being held by one roller it binds the bit and it snaps....

Read about the 7 inch rule of wood and Carrier Boards and Sleds.... And Frugal Use of Wood.... and staying under the rollers so the board stays FLAT to the table.

AL
No, we did not use masking tape on these boards that the bits were broken.

[Fletcher]

In the same box where you set the tab settings, there is a "max. pass depth" box. Turn it on and set the depth to 0.200" - this will cut out your part by going around it several times and getting deeper each time. This method has not failed for me yet. Try it out, and if it fails for you then you do have other vibration issues as mentioned earlier.

[Itsmeagain]

In the same box where you set the tab settings, there is a "max. pass depth" box. Turn it on and set the depth to 0.200" - this will cut out your part by going around it several times and getting deeper each time. This method has not failed for me yet. Try it out, and if it fails for you then you do have other vibration issues as mentioned earlier.

Thanks! I may have to try that...but not until a get a new 1/8 bit. How do I check for vibration?

Thanks for all those posted.

[Itsmeagain]

Please, attach your MPC so we can see it.
AskBud
I don't have it with me at the moment.

[liquidguitars]

don't have it with me at the moment.


Sounds about right, did your dog eat it? I recommend not wasting anymore time with this one..

[Digitalwoodshop]

One more time..... The 2007 Blog is outdated info... Don't let it taint your CW Experiance..... CW Bashing is so last year.....

When you order the replacements bits tomorrow... Order a new QC (Quick Connect ) too and the tools to replace it.... Flat Wrench and Square Bit.

To save on shipping order a few bits and while you are at it... Order brushes for the Cut Motor for the 250 Cut hour change..... And Sand Paper belts....

A better bet would be to cut your QC Losses now and get a upgrade now as buying the QC and bits is a waste of money in my opinion... There are better options....

Do your homework on getting the Carve Tite also known as AKA.... the CT.... It is a 1/2 inch bit ONLY option and you need to read and understand that you need to buy the 1/8 inch and 1/16 inch bits with the pressed on holder making it 1/2 inch.....

Good Luck..... And spend some time reading Tips and Tricks....

AL

[Itsmeagain]

Please, attach your MPC so we can see it.
AskBud
Here's my MPC file.
39215

[Itsmeagain]

One more time..... The 2007 Blog is outdated info... Don't let it taint your CW Experiance..... CW Bashing is so last year.....

When you order the replacements bits tomorrow... Order a new QC (Quick Connect ) too and the tools to replace it.... Flat Wrench and Square Bit.

To save on shipping order a few bits and while you are at it... Order brushes for the Cut Motor for the 250 Cut hour change..... And Sand Paper belts....

A better bet would be to cut your QC Losses now and get a upgrade now as buying the QC and bits is a waste of money in my opinion... There are better options....

Do your homework on getting the Carve Tite also known as AKA.... the CT.... It is a 1/2 inch bit ONLY option and you need to read and understand that you need to buy the 1/8 inch and 1/16 inch bits with the pressed on holder making it 1/2 inch.....

Good Luck..... And spend some time reading Tips and Tricks....

AL
What is a "Quick connect"? Is there a picture somewhere I can look at? Can someone provide a picture of what a "carve title" looks like?

[TIMCOSBY]

you need to stop trying to use the machine and learn how to use it first. i have never broken a bit (knock on wood) so your doing something wrong not the machine. if you dont know what the flex shaft is..........well you need to read up a bunch.

[Digitalwoodshop]

"Tilt".....

I am done...

AL

[cnsranch]

"Tilt"..... AL

I'll try......

There are a couple of things wrong with your project that WILL break bits. I'm going to point them out, but you need to do this first - ready?

Go to Carvewright's website, download all of the Tips and Tricks editions, and read them thoroughly - I mean until you understand what they each say.

Then, go to AskBud's site and spend the requisite amount of time watching ALL of the videos he's developed for us.

Here's a link - click on it and it'll take you to Bud's profile.

http://forum.carvewright.com/member.php?4678-AskBud

If you do what I recommend, you won't break any more bits, and your love/hate relationship with your machine will be waay more love than hate.

We often don't want to spend the time to get a feel for a tool, car, etc., it's more fun to use it than to learn how to use it. Problem with the machine here is it can be quite expensive to learn the hard way - and that's what you're doing.

So much for the lecture, here are the two things wrong with your project that will snap cutting bits - ready?

1. Your board size is 37.5" l x 6.25" w x.5" thick. If you're using a board that's thicker than that, you'll break a bit. But I'm going to assume your board is .5".

Unless you're carving your project using a sled (in other words, if you're simply loading a board into the machine that's the size of the board in Designer), you're going to snap a bit. Your project is designed to carve right up to the end of the board, and when the board leaves the roller, the board will tip up, and that will put stress on the bit - SNAP.

So, first of two problems, not adhering to the "7" rule".

2. Your project is calling for the cut out to be made in one pass. If you make a cut that's more than 1/4" to 1/3" deep, you risk snapping a bit. Think about it - plowing thru 1/2" of wood with a bit that's as thin as the one we use will cause stress - it's moving along at 20,000 rpm - won't take much to bend it just a tad, and SNAP.

So, you HAVE to make the cut on more than one pass.

Pic 1 below shows the problem with the 7" rule, pic 2 shows how to get more than one pass in your cut out.

If none of this makes sense, that just makes my point stronger about visiting the Tips and Tricks, and Bud's stuff.

This ain't as easy as we'd like, but it ain't as hard as we think.

[AskBud]

Hi itsmeagain,
I forgot to bring this up when we talked last night!
Remember to make sure your 1/2 inch wood measures slightly thicker than 1/2 inch or the machine may make the board run (start to eject) and place where it is less thick. The minimum thickness you may use in the machine (without a sled/carrier-board, is 1/2 inch). It measures with micrometers, not rule of thumb). This could contribute to your breakage as well.
AskBud