October POM

[Smoken D]

Started the October POM today. The cut-out portion is cutting 1/2 inch materal and sure enough only got maybe 6 inches on the first cut and the 1/8" bit broke. Happen to me on the Wanted More Grandkids cut outs also. This bit only had 1 hour or less on it. Using Ash Wood for the project. The other bit only had maybe 2-3 hours on it.

Is it possible to go into the program and re-program the cut-out portion so that only .25" pass at a time for 2 passes on the cut-out? $80 loss on two projects hurts a little. I know how to do this, but don't know if a project can be overridden for changes such as this.

[SeaCapt97]

Smoken - The project is yours. You can alter anything you like.

[Smoken D]

Thanks, I'll change the cut path to two passes. Just didn't know if I would be able to do it.

[mtylerfl]

Hi Smoken,

Ouch! Sorry to hear you are breaking bits...that is not normal at all. No matter what wood you are using, the 1/8" bit should be fine at the modest 1/2" depth. Please check that your bit is fully secure in whatever chuck you are using...then, double check it again. Also, check to be sure your wood is dry, flat, and is not binding or lifting at all during a project. 'Bad' wood or mis-tracking wood are the most common reasons for bit breakage. (Used to be the most common cause of broken cutting bits was the user not adding the additional 7" necessary to keep the wood captive under the rollers at all times, but I think most folks have learned to always make sure the boards are long enough now.)

I have broken just ONE bit in over 3 years. I almost always do full-depth cuts in 3/4" thick wood. I typically use Select Pine, which is softer than Ash (but the Select Pine we get here is not all THAT soft...in fact, it is rather hard for a pine species). Earlier in my CarveWright ownership, I used to carve and cut red oak (at full-depth) and had no issues with bit breakage (that was when the machine and I ALWAYS cut at full depth...I think that was around Designer version 1.13x?? or was it earlier than that?). Personally, I prefer full-depth cuts, as they are a little neater than a multi-pass.

I own two machines...one with the CarveTight (CT), the other with the Quick Chuck (QC). On the Wanted Poster Project, I cut out one half on my CT machine, the other half on my QC machine. No bit breakage or issues at all. I cut out the picture frames using both the QC machine and CT machine as well...again, no problems. It's somewhat puzzling what is causing the problem at your end, and I'm sure you are more than a little frustrated yourself! Please let us know if you have had any history of board mis-tracking/binding, bit mounting troubles, or traction belt drift, Y-errors, etc. Maybe that will help us nail the underlying problem. You should not be breaking bits! (assuming they aren't dull/worn out, of course)

Some woods are so hard, that a Max Pass is a good idea to be on the safe side. Using a Max Pass can also help prevent bit breakage even if there is a 'minor' issue going on that the user may not be aware of. You can click on any cut paths in any project and set your own preferred Max Pass amount. A good setting is 0.3" for 3/4" depth cuts. That way it will only take 3 passes of the cutting bit to go through the board. I have heard of folks setting Max Pass to 1/4", but that's probably not necessary - just makes the cut outs take longer than necessary IMO.

Please let us know how you make out and/or if you come across anything else that we might be able to help you with. We want your bits to remain intact!

[AskBud]

Here is a link on the various woods. It shows Ash as "hard & Heavy".
AskBud
http://forum.carvewright.com//attachment.php?attachmentid=10302&d=1205283058

[Smoken D]

Thanks Michael for the reply. The supply of wood I use is Oak, Cherry, Walnut, & Ash. All hard woods. In fact the bit that broke I purchased new from CW in August because of the other broken bit. Only hours on it was for Aug POM. My Walnut is around 10-20 years old, over 1" which I plane down when going to use it. The Ash is probably the same age, all kept in an Almish Barn when I got them. When doing projects that do not cut through I use a sled which has 3 3/4" ends to place the piece between. Instead of extra 7" for a cut through, I usually have around 7 1/2 extra. Put masking tape on sled along with wood. Wood flat as can be,(always check on table saw top) never a tracking problem, roller pressure within tollerance. Bits brake at the highest portion and I use the Rock. Also installed Kevlar traction belt around 100 cut hours ago after tear & roll up problem with paper belt.
Sooo, for now unless I find something, I am going to say it just happens to be the NATURE of MY machine. Will just keep that in mind for my projects and set machine as needed. As Robert at LHR told me, sometimes it just happens!
I will also say when cutting through, the wood really screams. Last August my wife came down to check because of the noise it was making (wood). Going to take machine apart today for schedule clean up maintenance. Will check on things.

[mtylerfl]

Thank you for the additional info. I'm going to hazard a guess that the wood (old wood) is likely the culprit, due to "extra hardening" due to the age. Probably the shallower Max Pass settings are a good idea. I did some remodeling a couple times on older homes (1920's house and a 1930's house). The framing was pine, but had become EXTREMELY hard over the years. Dulled blades really fast and it was a major effort to remove and drive nails or screws. I don't know for certain, but perhaps hardwoods become even harder, like the pine framing does.

Another possibility...hope I don't ruffle feathers here! The Rock has two versions...the 1/2" and the 1/4". One of those is prone to allow the solid carbide bits to slip more than the other. I THINK it is the 1/4" version, but don't recall for sure. Ron can tell you which one it is. Joe Lovchik from LHR told me about it months ago after I had reported that I was receiving calls from folks breaking bits who were using the Rock. Perhaps, if a bit is slipping slightly, it changes the runout of the bit just enough to stress it to the breaking point? Don't know, but it may be something to look into.

Well, let's hope your "bit-breaking days" are over! That can get expensive in a hurry!

[Smoken D]

Very Interresting Michael about older wood. Hadn't thought of that. I have some Walnut (150 bf $1 bf) that was milled out of the tree 13 months ago. Will try and do some compairson. Have not used any of the new Walnut, should be about seasoned in moisture content about now. Have a meter, but have not checked last few months. Do have the 1/4 Rock and will look into that. Took machine appart, some small particals, which only takes one. Gonna re-load project, but leary about the 1/2" cut. Will go ahead and make two passes. Be a cutten tomorrow.

[Smoken D]

Did the project today with no problems. I did change the cut-out to .25". Will start putting it together tomorrow. Really looks cool. Like this one. :)

[Ducky63]

I've set here & read the forum but never posted anything. I'm not sure how the carve club works but I haven't got the Oct. notice yet. Is this standard? I know I got for Aug. & Sept. on my desk top but I use my laptop for all my Patterns & things & when I get for Oct's. how can I get it to my laptop? I hope I soon get Octobers POM.

[mtylerfl]

I've set here & read the forum but never posted anything. I'm not sure how the carve club works but I haven't got the Oct. notice yet. Is this standard? I know I got for Aug. & Sept. on my desk top but I use my laptop for all my Patterns & things & when I get for Oct's. how can I get it to my laptop? I hope I soon get Octobers POM.

Hello and Welcome to the Forum!

Let me see if I can help add some clarification. There are two different subscription values available to CarveWright machine owners...

1) The Carver's Club (http://store.carvewright.com/product.php?productid=20097&cat=287&page=1) is $150 per year. Includes FREE phone support, 25% OFF all labor costs for repairs, and monthly exclusive specials. Every month is different.

2) The Project of the Month (POM) (https://store.carvewright.com/product.php?productid=18302&cat=263&page=1) is $120 per year. Includes a new project to build, complete with instructions, every month for a year. Each month's project includes all the pattern layouts you'll need, along with a compete set of step-by-step photo-illustrated instructions.

[Ducky63]

Thank You mtylerfl for telling me the differants. I paid $150 for mine so I see I won't be getting anything this month. I'll just have to go in and buy the pattern later, money a little short this month. Thank You again Ducky63

[CarverJerry]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Oct POM the tissue box? And isn't it all made with 3/4" thick material? Smoken D, are you using 1/2" material for this project? If so how did it turn out?

CarverJerry

[mtylerfl]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Oct POM the tissue box? And isn't it all made with 3/4" thick material? Smoken D, are you using 1/2" material for this project? If so how did it turn out?

CarverJerry

Howdy,

You're right - all 3/4" thick material to begin with. However, when the sides of the box are milled, the cut path only needs to go 1/2" through the remaining board thickness. (Essentially it ends up looking as if 1/2" material was used, with the raised lettering appliqued on top of that.)

[CarverJerry]

Thanks Michael, that explains what Smoken D was talking about. I'm carving that project today, that is why I was asking, I didn't mean to sound stupid.

CJ

[mtylerfl]

Thanks Michael, that explains what Smoken D was talking about. I'm carving that project today, that is why I was asking, I didn't mean to sound stupid.

CJ

Hi CJ,

It was a great question...not "stupid" at all. Thanks for the opportunity to clarify the point for all.

[Smoken D]

CJ;
As Michael said that is NOT a stupid question. One of those if you see it in front of you it clicks. The carve goes down into 3/4" wood 1/4" which leaves 1/2" of material left. My 1/8 cutting bit would not take 1/2" material in one cut and the bit broke. So, I programed the cut-out to take 1/4" (.250) (two passes to cut out instead of one) at a time and the result was no broken bit. Yea!! So yes, I was using 3/4" Ash Wood.

[CarverJerry]

Thanks guys, I just reset my depth to .25 also as I'm carving this project right now. I seen on the cut path screen it says "inset" is this where the tool cuts the line, so if I want to cut on the outside of the line would I put a plus 1/2 the dia of the tool in that box, for example +.0625 for using an 1/8" cutting tool?

CJ

[fwharris]

Thanks guys, I just reset my depth to .25 also as I'm carving this project right now. I seen on the cut path screen it says "inset" is this where the tool cuts the line, so if I want to cut on the outside of the line would I put a plus 1/2 the dia of the tool in that box, for example +.0625 for using an 1/8" cutting tool?

CJ

Jerry,
With out looking at the actual project, normally if you just do the "flip cutout" it does the same thing as the "inset"..

[mtylerfl]

Thanks guys, I just reset my depth to .25 also as I'm carving this project right now. I seen on the cut path screen it says "inset" is this where the tool cuts the line, so if I want to cut on the outside of the line would I put a plus 1/2 the dia of the tool in that box, for example +.0625 for using an 1/8" cutting tool?

CJ

Hi CJ,

You shouldn't make any changes to the inset...it's good as-is for this project (otherwise the final dimensions wouldn't be correct if you change it). However, you can go ahead and set your own Max Pass, no problem.

EDIT: it just occurred to me that you may have been asking a general question, not just about the project itself. When you use the Cut Path Tool, the default is that the bit will cut INSIDE the line. To make it cut on the OUTSIDE of the line, all you need to do is click the "Flip Cut" button.

If/when you do have a situation where you need to apply an inset (i.e., if you manually assigned a bit to a closed vector shape, for example), positive numbers make the bit move toward the INSIDE an enclosed vector shape....negative numbers move the bit towards the OUTSIDE of the shape. The amount of the inset allowed is based upon the diameter of the bit. For the 1/8" bit, the maximum inset (+ or -) will be 0.063" (half the bit diameter...Designer won't let you put 0.0625...it rounds or drops the fourth decimal place to 0.062...I prefer to round UP and type in the 0.063). If you assigned a 1/4" bit, you can specify up to a 0.125" inset (+ or -), and so on. The default for an assigned bit is for it to be centered directly over the vector, so the inset option can be handy when this is not what you want...you can move the bit inside or outside of the line, as desired.

[CarverJerry]

oh ok, I seen that on there also. Thanks for the tip.

[CarverJerry]

ok, now I have a problem, I cut the nose board, came out a-ok, then tried to cut the front & top board. The machine tells me that autojig requires 8" width, so I deleted that file from my card, and reloaded it making darn sure I chose "manual jig", tried it again, I'm using a carrier that I've always use and saying not to stay under the rollers, just like I always do, and it still tells me Autojig requires 8" width, What is going on here? Is it because I changed the cut path? Please any help would be appreciated.

CJ

[mtylerfl]

Hi CJ,

I don't use Auto-Jig or Manual Jig on any of my projects, so I don't know exactly what to tell you. Just a thought - perhaps the jig is the root of this behavior? Try changing the board width in Designer to the 8" width it keeps prompting you for (save the modified version as a different filename so you can always revert to the original if necessary). Load your new version to your card and let us know if that did the trick for you. When uploading, do not select Auto-Jig nor Manual Jig...rather, select "Ignore".

[CarverJerry]

Well Michael, guess I got restless, I went ahead and reloaded the file with out editing the cut path, it did the exact same thing so I just said to ignore it, and it's cutting, I'm standing by to see what happens. I've never had a problem with my jig giving me a problem like this before and I've cut many many projects using my jig, so I'll let you know how it turned out.
With your suggestion, if I changed the board to 8" in designer and my board in the machine is cut just a hair over the size originally stated (7") will it give me an error that my board is too small?

CJ

[mtylerfl]

Well Michael, guess I got restless, I went ahead and reloaded the file with out editing the cut path, it did the exact same thing so I just said to ignore it, and it's cutting, I'm standing by to see what happens. I've never had a problem with my jig giving me a problem like this before and I've cut many many projects using my jig, so I'll let you know how it turned out.
With your suggestion, if I changed the board to 8" in designer and my board in the machine is cut just a hair over the size originally stated (7") will it give me an error that my board is too small?

CJ

Hi CJ,

Sounds good. Maybe just selecting "Ignore" was all that was needed. I think that's specified in the instructions, anyway as I recall. You need to make sure your board is at least as big as the size specified in Designer. If your board is sized differently than the Designer project dimensions, you will receive an error message. If the actual board is bigger, the correct response is "Keep Original Size" (you never want to allow scaling), or if the board is too small, you simply need to use a bigger board.

I wrote a Tips & Tricks about that. Maybe you already have that one, but if not, here is the link to that particular article and may be helpful:

ISSUE 18 March 2009 – Scaling and How to Avoid It! (http://www.carvewright.com/downloads/tips/CarveWrightTips&Tricks_Mar09.pdf)

Keep us posted on how you are making out.

[CarverJerry]

Well I got my project carved, everything came out just like it should. There was one thing I noticed and that was when I edited the cutline to make it in 2 passes I found that I edited the wrong area. After going back and looking at the board in designer and having the carving list box showing I noticed that I made it to the wrong box around the cut out area..... guess this is one of those live and learn. So if you are going to make the cut path cut it in shallower cuts make sure you edit the correct line, it will show the cut path icon in the carving list box, that is the line you want to edit. Thanks for all you help Michael

CJ

[mtylerfl]

Hi CJ,

Glad everything is working alright. Thank you so much for the feedback and questions along the way. That's how we all learn from each other. What a great forum we have here!