Left belt moving to back of machine [Archive]

AskBud

07-20-2010, 05:18 PM

Yes, I have checked the head pressure. Ideally the belt should have about 1/8 " space on either side of the left roller. The head pressure on my machine is 80 pounds, but the belt keeps moving to the back side of the machine. Any way to stop this???

Jerry
If this happens with every board, I would suspect that the Head is not level (Parallel to the sandpaper belts).
AskBud

Celticwood

07-20-2010, 06:46 PM

If this happens with every board, I would suspect that the Head is not level (Parallel to the sandpaper belts).
AskBud

Thanks Bud. I'll check it out.

Jerry

Celticwood

07-20-2010, 07:32 PM

Is there any way to check if the head is not level before I proceed to level it?

Jerry

AskBud

07-20-2010, 08:02 PM

Is there any way to check if the head is not level before I proceed to level it?

Jerry
Level Head:
Take a piece of stock 3/4" or thicker, about 15 inches long, that is known to be truly flat.
Saw it into 2 pieces, lengthwise.
Place each piece on the sandpaper belts, one on the keyboard side and the other on the opposite side.
Using 4 strips of paper, place one piece on the board under each roller so it extends out of the machine.
Lower the head until the rollers begin to just touch the paper.
Now, tug on each piece of paper to determine the tension/resistance. They should all be the same feel. The paper is your "feeler gage"!
AskBud

Celticwood

07-21-2010, 08:38 AM

Thank you Bud. That will save me some time.

Jerry

Celticwood

07-21-2010, 10:53 AM

Bud, I’m back. I printed the instructions on how to level the head. Have you ever done this? It’s a bear. The instructions are not very good.
2. Adjust the head height: They say to" crank the head up toward the top of the machine until the top surface of the head casting is aligned with the flats on the vertical guide rods". There is no way to see this unless you remove the cover of the machine. But they don’t tell you this.
They eventually tell you to remove the back cover, and in step 8, tell you to tighten the jam nut. I never loosened it, and it was already tight.
I removed the front cover and compared the four guide rods to see if they were all level with the top surface of the machine casting. The back left guide rod is about 1/16 " above the casting, and the back right is slightly above the casting. I find no directions how to correct this.
I did notice that they had put more washers under the head casting on the front side. Is this a way of compensating?
I’m a woodworker, not a mechanic, and I wish I could get back to woodworking.
Jerry

Ike

07-21-2010, 11:11 AM

Jerry, do you have 2 - 4 foot contractors levels or even a 2 foot level? If so the easiest way I found to level the head is to place the levels on both sides and adjust the keypad side until both levels slide about the same. With a 4 level I go ahead and adjust the out feed tables too so that is is all level! Of course before you do anything make sure the table the machine is on is level! with the 2- 4' levels you know they are the same width and will square the head.

You do need to open the bottom and disconnect the tie-rod to the non key pad side and adjust the head with the hole in the guide rod until the level can be move slightly. Then using the crank do the same on the key pad side. Really one level would work, but 2 is better. Then check your pressure, if it is not enough another trick is to take a washer or two from the side panel bolts and place it behind the spring on the crank handle and that will give you more pressure.

It seems over whelming, but it really isn't! Give that a try and if I can help just ask or ask Al he is the real expert!

Ike

PS I take it you are talking about the sand paper belt moving? Those plates come off very easy and you might check to see if anything has jammed into the tension spring. Plus the belt may have expanded from heat etc. and needs to be replaced. Oh also check to see if the belt clip on the bottom is still there, if it fell off the belt will move.

04302296

07-21-2010, 11:27 AM

I was making portraits yesturday and the second one I made seemed to shred the wood a bit leaving wood chips stuck to the portrait. Once I placed the second piece in towards the end it completly ruined the portrait. Does this mean that the bit is getting dull?

Jason Sawyer
www.uniquecustomdesigns.com (http://www.uniquecustomdesigns.com)

Ike

07-21-2010, 11:37 AM

Jason, to better answer your question it would be best to start your own thread in trouble shooting. This thread may not get an answer and takes away from the OP questions, However a little more info is needed, like what material you are using? How long have you used the bit? The depth of the bit and photos help too. Because it may be another issue and if you can give us some more info we can give a better answer!

Ike

Digitalwoodshop

07-21-2010, 12:01 PM

Level Head:
Take a piece of stock 3/4" or thicker, about 15 inches long, that is known to be truly flat.
Saw it into 2 pieces, lengthwise.
Place each piece on the sandpaper belts, one on the keyboard side and the other on the opposite side.
Using 4 strips of paper, place one piece on the board under each roller so it extends out of the machine.
Lower the head until the rollers begin to just touch the paper.
Now, tug on each piece of paper to determine the tension/resistance. They should all be the same feel. The paper is your "feeler gage"!
AskBud

That is even BETTER than the Z number method...

THANKS

AL

Celticwood

07-21-2010, 01:31 PM

Ike,
I don't completely understand what you are saying, but I am really puzzled with the directions in the Maintenance section on leveling the head. Take a look at it. On page 4, number 7 & 8 say to remove the right side pannel, which should have already been done in order to see the tops of the vertical guide posts. Then it says to tighten the large jam nut. Why??? I didn't loosen it, and it is very tight. Then, without any instructions as to HOW to adjust the head, they go on to tell you how to put the machine back together.

You don't seem to addrress the issue of adjusting the head level, but mention adjusting the head pressure. I have no problem with that. Its the leveling of the head that's my problem. I appreciate your help.

Jerry

Yes, I am talking about the sand paper belts.

Ike

07-21-2010, 08:40 PM

Jerry I didn't read the manual on that! What I have done is I taken off the bottom plate and there you will see the tie rod assembly. Calling the non key pad side the right side I disconnect the gear that raises both sides and using a level I place it on the right side and using the hole in the threaded rod I lower the head until it touches the level. Then on the left side I do the same using the crank. That is why I use 2- 4' levels or you can use 2 -2" blocks, I like the levels because I have 2 and I know they are the same size.

Once I have both levels sliding about the same I remove them and reassemble the tie rod assembly. Then I test the pressure, if it isn't enough like I said you can use the washers on the top bolts behind the spring on the crank and it increases the pressure. If that doesn't make sense send a PM and I will give you my phone number and try to explain it better.

Ike

Celticwood

07-22-2010, 02:12 PM

Ike, I did as you said, got my machine back together with no parts lefo over, and ran a few board messurments on it. The belt is still moving to the back of the machine. I've found that it helps some if I have some religious music playing in the background, and though it helps my disposition some, it doesn't seem to get any better results in solviing the problem.

A bit of history about my machine: My first machine had an unresolvable problem of getting the message "Check cut motor...". After spending hours on the phone without success, they told me to send the machine back, at a shipping cost of $70. They sent it back and it still had the problem. This time they said they would pay shipping back. After a few weeks it came back with the same problem. I asked if they had ANY machines that didn't have this problem, and they assured me they did. I convinced them to send me one, which they did. Same problem with the new machine. I decided not to mention it and to live with the problem. They gave me one month warranty on the new machine. The first week I began to have the sand paper belt problem. They determined that it was because the head pressure was too great. I adjusted the pressure, and assumed this solved the problem.

Meanwhile I got a job that had to be donee, so I left the machine for a while. Warranty ran out. Now I discover that the problem is not corrected, plus the machine, while measuring the length of the board, passes the board out the left side of the machine and tells me that the board has possibly been removed. Oh how I wish I had kept the first machine and learned to live with the cut motor problem. I am hoping that I can get my problems solved on the Forum. You guys seem to know a lot about the machine, and I appreciate your help.

Jerry

Ike

07-22-2010, 02:40 PM

Ok the next thing to do is to remove your belt table that is slipping. On the bottom there is a plastic clip, make sure it has not slipped off. Then check the belt, you may need a new belt, is it torn on the edges? Plus check the tension on the belts. I used a bar clamp to release the pressure and used an drill bit in the hole to hold the pressure on both sides.

What is your head pressure? Try backing off the pressure with the crank and see if the belt slips. I know it is very frustrating this is a great machine and with all that have been made a few have had issues.

As for to the check motor it could be the rpm sensor to needing new brushes. How many hours do you have on the cut motor? I get the same messages now and again and I just push enter and it readjust the rpm and finishes the job.

I just bought the new Rev C CW and the carvetight chuck is noisy, it has an echo sound to it. So I am not sure if there is something wrong or not? It is cutting fine just making too much noise especially in my portable sign shop!

Like I said I am more then happy to give you my phone number and try to help you. Al (Digitalwood) is the real expert and I am sure he too will give you his number to help you.

Ike

Digitalwoodshop

07-22-2010, 03:28 PM

I am always open to phone calls with questions... you guys know me.... I am always eager to help or get in the way.... email or phone calls.... My number is on the bottom of my web pages.

OK... I have been dealing with the BELT CREEP for about 2 months... I keep cutting off the edge.... About 5 times now.... So WHY IS IT moving over.......

I have had a bunch of theories over the months from a stretched belt on one end..... To a un level head.... To head pressure..... To Board being placed in the machine at a angle...... To sawdust getting inside the belt assembly.....

So today I am cutting 2 more signs for my favorite Customer and High School Clasmate.... And I see the Whole top head move when the board was doing it's measurement checks and bumping the front roller....... I got a possible board removal message last week and wondered WHY......

After the project finished I unplugged the machine and flipped it onto it's back and looked for the bolts holding the smooth metal 4 corner posts.... Sure enough the 2 on the brass roller side were LOOSE...... I snugged them down along with the top bolts too.... MUCH BETTER.......

So now I am thinking..... Was the Loose Smooth Corner Posts the REASON for the belt creep....

Something to look into if you are getting the belts to shift to the brass roller.....

AL

dbfletcher

07-22-2010, 03:40 PM

Thats very interesting! Do you think those two posts were loose enuf that you could have wiggled the posts slightly by hand if you had tried? The only reason I ask is the my machines are bloted down to mitre saw stands so accessing the bottom means totally removing from the stand.

Celticwood

07-22-2010, 03:58 PM

Al, I have always appreciated your help.. You have gotten me out of a lot of trouble. I have never used the Forum to get feedback, because I knew O could call on you. I didn't want to be leaning too heavy on you, so thought I would get some other feedback. You and Ike have been very helpful, and I appreciate you both. Please forgive me if my frustration seems to be getting me down.

About the cut motor , I only have 2 hours and 15 minutes on the rebuilt machine. That ought to rule out some of the possibilities Ike mentioned. But, as I say, I am willing to live with that problem. Its just an inconvenience to have to stand around waiting for the macchine to cut off so I can press enter to continue.

My head pressure is now 73 pounds, which is a little bit lower than they recommend. It was over 90 when I got the machine, and they told me that was too high, and probably the reason for the belt moving. The bellt is new, and seems in good shape. Ike, I don't follow you on checking the belt tension. I to use a bar clamp to loosen the belt so I can move it over, but what are the holes you are referring to, and how does this tell you anything about the belt prerssure?

Thanks again for your help. Its good to know that you guys are getting goood results with your machines, and I WILL stick with it.

Jerry

dbfletcher

07-22-2010, 04:05 PM

If you havn't seen this post, if can be very useful for re-aligning the belts with out taking the belt tray out of the machine.

http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?10651-Traction-Belt-Trick&p=83221#post83221

Celticwood

07-22-2010, 04:40 PM

Hi Doug, I haven't seen that. It sure makes things easier. Thanks for the tip.

I just discovered something. I took the tray out to center the belt, and while I had ot out, I rotated the belt by hane, out of the machine. When I rotated it in the direction that would be away from the ceenter of the machine, it moved to the back of the machine. When I rotated it the other way it went right back. This makes me wonder if its the belt. It seems to me that this eliminates any influence the head pressure is having on it.

Jerry

Digitalwoodshop

07-22-2010, 06:48 PM

As for the Check Cut Motor message, Everyone or almost Everyone gets it from time to time.... I believe it is a Program problem when the machine loads the project on the card it converts it to machine language. In that change it assigns a cut motor speed to some of the elements or text.... When the motor is too fast or too slow, usually too fast it gives you that fault. I just live with it.....

Good Luck and keep at it..... Once you get the bugs worked out..... You will love the machine....

I am always a phone call away....

AL

Celticwood

07-22-2010, 07:43 PM

Al, I have heard it said that this problem is most often associated with the Centerline projects. Do you think so?

I appreciate your offer of a phone conversation. My problem is that I am hearing impaired, not deaf, but pretty bad. I lost my heariing because I was in the anti-aircraft artillary. They never gave us ear protection back then. So e-mail and Forum will have to do. Jerry

Digitalwoodshop

07-22-2010, 11:05 PM

Sorry to hear about the hearing. Being a Gun Fire Control Tech in the Navy, I have heard my share of 5 inch Gun noise... But never in wartime...

It is mostly with centerline text when you get the Check Cut Motor CCM, but I have a project that is a double sided sign with a carve region guitar on each side and text. The machine will cut the first side and get the CCM fault 30 seconds into the Carving Bit doing a carving of the Guitar.... The sign is double sided and the front side will cut without faulting..... The Front side is done last.

Cut the 2 wooden single sided signs tonight and both times the machine faulted 30 seconds into the Text....

The Signs are a remake of a set from last year.... The name should have been Ronald McDonald Camp.... They forgot the CAMP part.... At least the guy who paid for them last year.... The girl called me in the winter, She got the second one.... It bothered her so much She asked for a new set of signs..... I made the second set and shipped them.... FREE for a good cause.... They disappeared from her front porch in Philly.....

She offered to pay for this set..... Using #1 Pine.... OK.... $75.00 each please..... She will swap the sign at the camp next month....

It's a camp for Sick Kids for the week....

AL

Celticwood

07-23-2010, 08:11 AM

That sure is a mystery. Nice looking job for Mc Donalds, and you are very generous. Isn't it nice to be able to do freebies for a good cause?

Back to the belt problem: Consideriing the fact that the belt moves when I turn it by hand when out of the machine, I tend to believe it is an alignment problem. The rollers aren't parallel with each other. Do you agree? If so, is there any way to corrrect this? Jerry

Digitalwoodshop

07-23-2010, 01:37 PM

I have heard of customers getting a replacement tray from LHR to fix the tracking problem.....

AL

Celticwood

07-23-2010, 01:41 PM

I'll look into that Al. Thanks.

Jerry

Ike

07-23-2010, 02:34 PM

Al very nice signs and thank you for helping Jerry! I was going to suggest replacing the table. I would first see if it is seated correctly I noticed when I took mine off and replaced it I didn't have it set correctly. Plus I would check the brass roller assembly to see if any screws are loose.

Jerry I know I do things different what I was saying on replacing the belts on the springs there is rods the spring rides on. And there is a hole that when I used a clamp to compress it I stuck an awl in the hole and a drill bit on the other side. Then I slipped the belt off and put the new one on and re-clamped it removed the awl and the screw, oh I used 2 bar clamps. When I removed the clamps the belts were on and the tension was fine. I then installed the tables back on and I noticed I didn't have it correct on the key pad side and it still screwed down. It was not flat so I fixed it and all is good. Plus make sure the guide clip is on the bottom.

Except my Y motor and I received my new one today! They re-designed the motor and I hope it will resolve my Y axis errors!

Thanks again Al, I tried the best I knew how!

Ike

Celticwood

07-23-2010, 03:41 PM

Ike and Al,

Good news ! I communicated with Barry at Carvewright, and after taking the belt off the tray and reversing it. the belt moved in the opposite direction, which indicates that the problem is a bad belt. They are sending me a new set FREE. Hopefully, this will solve my problem. Thanks to all for your help.

Jerry

Celticwood

07-25-2010, 06:57 PM

Ike

07-26-2010, 02:16 PM

Ike, I used a couple of finishing nails to hold the tension off the belt. Worked well. I've had the left shelf off the machine enough times that I feel like I could do it blindfolded. I find the gear cover doesn't come offf and on very easily, but the rest is not bad. Jerry

Jerry that is good news you have it figured out! The cover for the gears are just molded clips and you just need to apply a little pressure on the top to release the cover.

Ike