SIGH!!! Don't buy this machine....

[DumbDawg]

Man... More troubles... With the money you pay for this piece of equipment, and they are charging a premium price, the problems it has is mounting...

I've been reading here to see if I can't solve the problem, yet again... to no avail....

Now I'm getting a 'Clear Board Sensor' message... AGAIN... I've gone thru this beast and cleaned it spotless... wiped the sensor with a lens cloth so as to not scratch it, blew out the machine of all sawdust and I get the error message... Checked head pressure and its about 80lbs... pushed on all wires and ribbon cables to make sure they were tight and not loose... still get the 'clear sensor' message....

If I could get my money back it would be going back in a heartbeat.... The software is seriously lacking, the memory card is oldschool technology and this piece of crap machine is really PO'n me off... I'm seeing very poor design thru the whole thing... Its a complete sawdust trap, electronics which are more sensitive to heat and dust are exposed etc etc....

Yah I'm not happy with it.... Its overly sensitive to dust which if you are working with wood you are going to get... no??? so I would have thought a little more thought would have gone into the design of the machine... apparently not so much...

Any suggestions on how to fix this stupid machine??? I'd appreciate any help...

Thx

[chebytrk]

Paint it Yellow, call it a dog and shoot it! : )

[dbfletcher]

ok. You didnt mention what you reading where when you did the white paper test. I'll post a link to the intructions for that in a minute.. I have to search the forum myself to find the right post. Anyways, I'm betting that either one or both of your leds have broke or have failed. The white paper test reading will definately get up pointed in the right directions.

check this post out... if you still have questions, let us know.

http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?14524-Help-White-Paper-Test&highlight=white+paper+reading

Basically you are just putting a sheet of white paper on top of a board, under neither the board sensor. Crank the head down and go to user options, sensor check. Report back what your reading are.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Before you bad mouth the machine you need to do a little homework and check out Tips and Tricks that has tons of good stuff for a new user. Every single user of this machine including me had to get past the learning curve of the machine. And many that started to bad mouth the machine out of frustration have grown to LOVE the machine and what it CAN DO..... I know it is frustrating.... WE have all been there..... It could be as simple as you are using dark wood.... It's reflective light and a dark board will not be seen sometimes...

First things first.... We need to know the health of your board sensor.... To do that.... I came up with the White Copy Paper Test... Since everyone has different color boards...... The White paper is a "Standard" so my readings will match your readings..... With a sheet of white copy paper on the board and head cranked down.... Use Options, and Sensor Data on the keypad, and Board Detector..... You should get between 140 and 159 with white paper.... 80 and you have a dirty sensor of broken LED's There are 2 LED's and one receiver.

Sometimes all the blowing around and the dust gets inside the lens.... to clean, I like to slice down the back and remove the lens that way. If a LED falls out... Well it was bad.... The new sensors have glue holding the board to the plastic and have better dust control....

Let us know what the readings are...

If you ever remove the board sensor it is possible to pull the wires too hard and cause them to slide down the side of the plastic guide on the Y head. Over time the vibration and the sharp edge of the metal cuts into the wires. On my machine it caused a zero board sensor reading AND the Z DATA would stay 0000, AND I got a OPEN COVER when it was closed..... It shorted the data buss....

So that is the worst possible case..... So I clean the Board Sensor and seal it back up with 3M masking tape because I have Stock in Masking Tape and recommend it be used for everything from keeping the core of the Flex Shaft from falling out when you do maintenance and to assist the Brass Roller Tracking Sensor.... Grip the board.

WELCOME !!!! Lets get this machine carving.... I just took a Wood Sign out of the machine.... A Sign for a Real Estate Agent to give as a house warming gift... Was up until 3 AM painting 2 others for a quick turn around... So making Money with the machine makes it all worth wile...

AL who....


AL

[robbrigg2]

I went through this once, just like this and was fuming.. then I changed my board just for grins and giggles and it turned out that the board was warped just enough to cause the error... might want to give it a try...

[forqnc]

@ Al, I admire your patience with repetitive negative post about the machine.

@ Dumbdawg, like others have said, we have all felt your frustration, mine was a lack of patience. I just wanted to go out and carve a board and move on to other things and it never worked like that. Then I took the attitude of "OK, I will give up the whole day to do a one hour carve" Once I started to learn about the machine things just clicked and the rewards where worth it. Good Luck and I hope you can get your problem fixed and get back to carving.

[CarverJerry]

DumbDawg, maybe what you need is just to walk away from your machine for a while, calm down, get your poop in a group. Getting mad only makes things worst. There are many different things that can go wrong and when your pissed off you can overlook the easy and simple things, here on the forum are a lot of guys who have been there and done that and had the exact same problems. I'm sure they will be of great help as I've had to rely on them myself. Thanks guys. I hope you can solve your problems and get back to carving, besides don't let this hobby give you a heart attack, enjoy it, relax and get back to making saw dust.

CJ

[spalted]

Dumbdawg,

I think we can a relate to what your saying, most if not all of us have been there.

This machine is not like running a table saw, it's not bullet proof, fool proof or low maintenance, and it never will be. Thats just the nature of having electronics in a woodshop environment.

It does take a certain amount of determination and shear bullheadedness to own and operate one.

Remember, there is a fantastic group of knowledgeable and very helpful people here, they can get you through all the problems. Without all these guys I would have thrown in the towel in the beginning. Also LHR tech has been very good to me as well.


Hang in there, it gets better over time.

[DumbDawg]

I appreciate the comments and replies...

New day new beginning... what chokes me about this machine is its being so completely finicky and its a brand new machine with VERY low hours of carving anything on it... Yesterday it was a piece of pine... one carve and I have to tear it down, clean it, wipes its arse and 'hope' it will work for another job... I had RC helicopters that were easier to operate and maintain than this machine and considerably cheaper too...

Any rate... I am going to give it the white paper test after I've had my caffeine and go from there... I fully understand there being a learning curve but there are some things that I'm no stranger to either... But I maintain that I shouldn't have to tear it down, or shouldn't experience these failures out of the gate like this... You pay a premium price for these things and I'm saying the quality should be there... If I buy a thickness planer I don't have to tear it down after the first board run... The only tear down on my table saw is in replacing blades, my routers... never tore them down yet...

I will also endeavor to chill out and do the oooooohhhmmmmm.... thing... or uuummm!! whichever works better...:|

cheers

[WRW]

Hi DumbDawg
Welcome to what I believe is one of the best forums I have had the pleasure to be part of, as you have already seen the support for community here is great. This @#$@%%^ Wonderful Machine will attempt to teach you patience, and the rest, the guys and gals here are willing to help with.

I think spalted's little phrase at the bottom of his posts sums the machine up quite well. "My Carvewright is just like my dog.........I know damn well it hears me, but it still doesn't always do what I want it to!"

For me changing to the Rock Chuck and installing a good dust pickup inside the carver seemed to bring an end to a lot of little issues that are caused by vibration and dust.
Hope to see you hang in and enjoy.
Have a great day!

[AskBud]

I appreciate the comments and replies...

New day new beginning... what chokes me about this machine is its being so completely finicky and its a brand new machine with VERY low hours of carving anything on it... Yesterday it was a piece of pine... one carve and I have to tear it down, clean it, wipes its arse and 'hope' it will work for another job... I had RC helicopters that were easier to operate and maintain than this machine and considerably cheaper too...

Any rate... I am going to give it the white paper test after I've had my caffeine and go from there... I fully understand there being a learning curve but there are some things that I'm no stranger to either... But I maintain that I shouldn't have to tear it down, or shouldn't experience these failures out of the gate like this... You pay a premium price for these things and I'm saying the quality should be there... If I buy a thickness planer I don't have to tear it down after the first board run... The only tear down on my table saw is in replacing blades, my routers... never tore them down yet...

I will also endeavor to chill out and do the oooooohhhmmmmm.... thing... or uuummm!! whichever works better...:|

cheers
DD,
You have not stated what model of machine you have.
Did you get a new "C" unit which has the carveTight (CT) assembly, a reconditioned unit with the CT, or did you get a unit (new or used) with the Quick Change Chuck? Is it a CW or CC machine?
AskBud

[henry1]

@ Al, I admire your patience with repetitive negative post about the machine.

@ Dumbdawg, like others have said, we have all felt your frustration, mine was a lack of patience. I just wanted to go out and carve a board and move on to other things and it never worked like that. Then I took the attitude of "OK, I will give up the whole day to do a one hour carve" Once I started to learn about the machine things just clicked and the rewards where worth it. Good Luck and I hope you can get your problem fixed and get back to carving.
I have to agree with you,, I have been there

[Digitalwoodshop]

Dust collection is a good thing too.... Sawdust blown around is your enemy..... Search "dust collection" using the " " and you will see what I do for dust collection and what is available.

AL

[DumbDawg]

First things first.... We need to know the health of your board sensor.... To do that.... I came up with the White Copy Paper Test... Since everyone has different color boards...... The White paper is a "Standard" so my readings will match your readings..... With a sheet of white copy paper on the board and head cranked down.... Use Options, and Sensor Data on the keypad, and Board Detector..... You should get between 140 and 159 with white paper.... 80 and you have a dirty sensor of broken LED's There are 2 LED's and one receiver.

Sometimes all the blowing around and the dust gets inside the lens.... to clean, I like to slice down the back and remove the lens that way. If a LED falls out... Well it was bad.... The new sensors have glue holding the board to the plastic and have better dust control....

Let us know what the readings are...


AL who....


AL

Here are the sensor readings... After performing the 'white paper test'...

Cover switch - closed
Frt/Bk Rollers - Compressed
Board Sensor - 0
Y/Z Position(s) - .001
X position - .000
Board Tracking - .000
Probe State - Open
Cut Sensor - 0

Being as the board sensor is zero I'm think'n theres a problem there... non functional... ooohhhmmmmm!!!!

[DumbDawg]

DD,
You have not stated what model of machine you have.
Did you get a new "C" unit which has the carveTight (CT) assembly, a reconditioned unit with the CT, or did you get a unit (new or used) with the Quick Change Chuck? Is it a CW or CC machine?
AskBud

I have the newest 'C' model which I got maybe a couple weeks ago now... and its been 'down' more than its been up'n running... hence the frustrations... It has the CT head, non-reconditioned and straight from LHR in Texas...

[lynnfrwd]

Being as the board sensor is zero I'm think'n theres a problem there...

If in fact it is the board sensor, we will replace it under your warranty. Just call our customer service at 713-473-6572 and speak with a hardware technician. They will troubleshoot and verify, then send you a new one.

[Ike]

DumbDawg, I commend you on your demeanor, you will hear stories relating to yours. I can too add to the stories, I had one machine that was just.....well a lemon! Keep this in mind with all the machines made it is bound to happen. I bought a Honda 2000 watt quiet generator brand new, another product that many have been made. Well I had a lemon, I had it repaired by the shop where I purchased the Honda. Finally it was replaced.

The good thing you are in a position that sounds like you are under warranty and can send it to LHR. Yes you will pay for the shipping to Texas, but I know they will resolve your problems! This machine is the most affordable CNC on the market and will produce results from the hobbyist level to professional.

So sometimes you can do all the cleaning and all the right things and it may be a wire or part causing all the problems that you can tear it down and never find! But give a list of issues to LHR and I bet they can find the problem in a New York minute!

You can go with another CNC if you want, I have a K2 CNC I bought over 2 years ago and have never used. Not because there is something wrong, but because my CW does all I want. I even sold a new 48" x 96" Shopbot I never used. Am I crazy? Maybe a little! But my CW does what I need with my sign business, yesterday I took a $1000.00 and I will use my CW to make the signs. This won't be the first time I have used my CW to make over $1000.00 order thus paying for my machine a few times over!

You mentioned the software is limited, maybe, but LHR has worked hard to provide more options at very reasonable prices! With my SB and K2 it requires software just to communicate with the machine with the computer. Then you have many choices for a designer priced from $500.00 to $ 8000.00 With SB it does come with very limited software and only allows some fonts to be carved centerline. Then most work better if you have Corel Draw, which will work with the CW software. The CNC game is a pricey game to play, but LHR has made it affordable with the machine and the software.

I bought my first machine in December 2006 and up to date with all the free designer software updates and correcting any issues, LHR puts the customer first. I hope you continue to hang in there, you will enjoy the machine! I won't say you will never have another issues, but the good has out weighed the bad! If not I have a new K2 CNC I am willing to sell!

Ike

[DumbDawg]

Hey Ike... Thx for the reply...

I did end up calling CW twice to sort the problem out... Turns out the sensor went south and died... and they don't have any new ones in stock.... and its not covered under warranty... they had some refurb'd sensors they were willing to sell me.... Thats about when I near went postal... long story short they are sending me a replacement, under warranty...

As for the machine itself I realize that there are some made on Mondays and Fridays... I'm really hoping this isn't one of them... I'm really hoping that it will get over some of these small hiccups and go on to producing some nice stuff... fingers crossed...

I have been reading and scouring the forum here to see what the common problems I'll no likely run into and the solutions... Trying to do my 'homework' all along, only there are tons of postings to go thru... Not so sure I'll go on to make money with it when all I really wanted to do was produce some nicer furniture and 'stuff' for my kids etc etc...

My frustration was having a brand new machine that I was having to 'tear down', fix, clean-n-shine and spend most of my time pampering it and whispering softly to in order to get it to work... sort of... I was hoping to get a few carves out of it before its quirks started to show and regular maintenance schedule kicks in... I guess my expectations were a little to high...

I'm here to stay, like it or not... Probably do a little more rants as well until I get this thing under control... For now I have to sit on my hands and wait for parts to arrive.... sigh!!!

Cheers...

[Ike]

Hey Ike... Thx for the reply...

I did end up calling CW twice to sort the problem out... Turns out the sensor went south and died... and they don't have any new ones in stock.... and its not covered under warranty... they had some refurb'd sensors they were willing to sell me.... Thats about when I near went postal... long story short they are sending me a replacement, under warranty...

As for the machine itself I realize that there are some made on Mondays and Fridays... I'm really hoping this isn't one of them... I'm really hoping that it will get over some of these small hiccups and go on to producing some nice stuff... fingers crossed...

I have been reading and scouring the forum here to see what the common problems I'll no likely run into and the solutions... Trying to do my 'homework' all along, only there are tons of postings to go thru... Not so sure I'll go on to make money with it when all I really wanted to do was produce some nicer furniture and 'stuff' for my kids etc etc...

My frustration was having a brand new machine that I was having to 'tear down', fix, clean-n-shine and spend most of my time pampering it and whispering softly to in order to get it to work... sort of... I was hoping to get a few carves out of it before its quirks started to show and regular maintenance schedule kicks in... I guess my expectations were a little to high...

I'm here to stay, like it or not... Probably do a little more rants as well until I get this thing under control... For now I have to sit on my hands and wait for parts to arrive.... sigh!!!

Cheers...


Dawg, I understand about a new machine! I too am not thrilled with the board sensor and was hoping it has been improved. I removed my plastic lens on mine, not recommended. Cleaning is just a part of normal operation, like Al wrote invest into a DC .

Lol I also understand the start up procedure, 1- design your project, 2- load flash card, turn on machine, 3- go through the steps, load board, measure, load bit etc. and then step 4 PRAY! Believe it does get better and the 4th step is always needed, but not for your CW!

It is ok to rant we all have strong shoulders! I am always willing to help anytime just ask!

Ike

[eharsin21]

After years of the same things (replacing sensor after sensor) the best thing to do is to CUT THEM OUT. Cut ever sensor out you can! Of course they will say "NO" because of liability reasons, but it was the ONLY way I could get my machine to run through a complete project. I have had my machine for 5 years. I have had so many problems that I put it up for a year or so and think about all of that money just sitting there collecting dust. So I will get it down and try it again. So what happens? Another problem. It is the worst money I ever spent.

[liquidguitars]

the best thing to do is to CUT THEM OUT. Cut ever sensor out you can!


This takes the cake, pure BS... On the positive side of the coin..
37605

[DumbDawg]

After years of the same things (replacing sensor after sensor) the best thing to do is to CUT THEM OUT. Cut ever sensor out you can! Of course they will say "NO" because of liability reasons, but it was the ONLY way I could get my machine to run through a complete project. I have had my machine for 5 years. I have had so many problems that I put it up for a year or so and think about all of that money just sitting there collecting dust. So I will get it down and try it again. So what happens? Another problem. It is the worst money I ever spent.


Actually cutting the sensors out won't do anything but disable your machine. The software has to find the edge of the board somehow so it knows where to begin, whether the project will fit on the board etc etc... So getting rid of it won't help...

BUT... perhaps making a better quality as in NOT MADE IN CHINA, sensor... might be a possible solution... There are some other issues with this machine as well that could have been improved upon so as to make it more reliable... I'm in the same boat in a way because this thing has been down really more than its been running...

I was sent a refurb'd sensor and its back up carving again... bottom line was I was thinking the same thoughts... worst money spent on a piece of over priced chineese made junk.... but I'm baby'n it thru and doing what I need to do because I'm not going to let it beat me...

So pull it off the shelf and try working around its idiosyncraZZZZies.... You might loose a bit of hair like I am but its better than just admitting defeat and lossing out entirely...

cheers and... good luck...

[Digitalwoodshop]

After years of the same things (replacing sensor after sensor) the best thing to do is to CUT THEM OUT. Cut ever sensor out you can! Of course they will say "NO" because of liability reasons, but it was the ONLY way I could get my machine to run through a complete project. I have had my machine for 5 years. I have had so many problems that I put it up for a year or so and think about all of that money just sitting there collecting dust. So I will get it down and try it again. So what happens? Another problem. It is the worst money I ever spent.

If you have a 5 year old machine then you must have a BETA unit and you can just trade it in to LHR if they still offer it.... I have had my machine since 2007 when the first production units came out.

If you have a A model from 2007 then you need to be sure you have the Z Bundle upgrade. Order a new Board Sensor. Clean and lube the machine and get a dust collection device. A Clean machine will run better.

Install the parts.... Fire up the machine and let us know what happens...

Also be sure to read all the Tips and Tricks as it will give you all the tips that prevent Pilot Errors that can trip your trigger of frustration. A educated user is a happy user..... Yes, YOU TOO can be a happy user.... It just takes time and the right parts.....

AL

[oceanspook]

If you have a 5 year old machine then you must have a BETA unit and you can just trade it in to LHR if they still offer it.... I have had my machine since 2007 when the first production units came out.

If you have a A model from 2007 then you need to be sure you have the Z Bundle upgrade. Order a new Board Sensor. Clean and lube the machine and get a dust collection device. A Clean machine will run better.

Install the parts.... Fire up the machine and let us know what happens...

Also be sure to read all the Tips and Tricks as it will give you all the tips that prevent Pilot Errors that can trip your trigger of frustration. A educated user is a happy user..... Yes, YOU TOO can be a happy user.... It just takes time and the right parts.....

AL

I bought mine used and am working through some error codes now (which is why I'm in the forums reading). I'm trying to get a handle as to what needs repair. How do I tell what year mine was made? Thanks.

[lynnfrwd]

The first two letters of the serial number will give us an idea of how old it is....First generation machines were betas and started with numbers; next was A and the closer to AA the older it is; then BA and now CA (Version C).

[dbfletcher]

I thougth it was stated on here before that version A machines where Compucarve and version B machines were Carvewright? Is that not true? So it is possible to have either a A or B version of both Carvewright and Compucarve?

[oceanspook]

The first two letters of the serial number will give us an idea of how old it is....First generation machines were betas and started with numbers; next was A and the closer to AA the older it is; then BA and now CA (Version C).

Mine is a "BD". (Compucarve, btw)

[lynnfrwd]

The majority of A's are CompuCarves; majority of B's are CarveWrights, but there is overlapping of both. I was also corrected in that the second letter and numbers are insignificant as to its age.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Here is some help with your errors....

If you have the old Z with the 18 pin FSC Cable, that is the big flat cable. The new one has 14 pins and are thicker. This is like a AAA battery and a D battery. D is better.....

Look at the pictures to see what version you have. The older 18 pin version works great for some, but it was the cause of Z Stalls and Y Stalls for ME.... My picture has 16 pin but it is really 18 pin.... A ALsimers Moment that went on for MONTHS..... Before someone said.... eEEEErrrr 18 pins.... not 16.... And HE was Right....

Know there is a L2 Coil in the power supply that can vibrate and snap off one wire. This will give you a Power Fluctuation Error OR the power just won't come on.... Lay the machine on it's back, the Muffler side and it could come back on due to gravity pushing the wires together. It is caused by the QC Vibration. Getting a Carve Tite or a Rock Chuck will take care of the vibration.

The C1 on the X Termination Board can snap due to vibration preventing the Cut Motor from starting or letting it start by itself....

If you have over 250 Cut Motor Hours you better order Cut Motor Brushes soon.... A Motor Stall will snap a $40.00 bit...

If you have a older Board Sensor then the circuit board is not glued to the black plastic holder. This can cause the LED or Lights and the Photo Receiver to snap off, or dust to get inside of the plastic lens giving you board sensor problems.
The Test for the board sensor is to place a sheet of white copy paper on a board and crank the head down. A 156 is perfect.... a 90 or less is a dirty window or a broken off LED. Replacing the board detector is the fix...

OK.... Let us know if you need any more tips..... Speaking of TIPS.... The Tips and Tricks has a good deal of help with pilot error things like the 7 inch rule of wood, scaling and wood thickness.

AL

[oceanspook]

Here is some help with your errors....

If you have the old Z with the 18 pin FSC Cable, that is the big flat cable. The new one has 14 pins and are thicker. This is like a AAA battery and a D battery. D is better.....

Look at the pictures to see what version you have. The older 18 pin version works great for some, but it was the cause of Z Stalls and Y Stalls for ME.... My picture has 16 pin but it is really 18 pin.... A ALsimers Moment that went on for MONTHS..... Before someone said.... eEEEErrrr 18 pins.... not 16.... And HE was Right....

Know there is a L2 Coil in the power supply that can vibrate and snap off one wire. This will give you a Power Fluctuation Error OR the power just won't come on.... Lay the machine on it's back, the Muffler side and it could come back on due to gravity pushing the wires together. It is caused by the QC Vibration. Getting a Carve Tite or a Rock Chuck will take care of the vibration.

The C1 on the X Termination Board can snap due to vibration preventing the Cut Motor from starting or letting it start by itself....

If you have over 250 Cut Motor Hours you better order Cut Motor Brushes soon.... A Motor Stall will snap a $40.00 bit...

If you have a older Board Sensor then the circuit board is not glued to the black plastic holder. This can cause the LED or Lights and the Photo Receiver to snap off, or dust to get inside of the plastic lens giving you board sensor problems.
The Test for the board sensor is to place a sheet of white copy paper on a board and crank the head down. A 156 is perfect.... a 90 or less is a dirty window or a broken off LED. Replacing the board detector is the fix...

OK.... Let us know if you need any more tips..... Speaking of TIPS.... The Tips and Tricks has a good deal of help with pilot error things like the 7 inch rule of wood, scaling and wood thickness.

AL

Thanks. I'll work through this and see how it runs.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Get stumped call me..... My number is on the bottom of my web pages. I am in the shop until midnight eastern most nights. Painting signs tonight.....

AL

[oceanspook]

Get stumped call me..... My number is on the bottom of my web pages. I am in the shop until midnight eastern most nights. Painting signs tonight.....

AL

Will do, thanks.

[oceanspook]

I have the newer board; 14-pin version on the right in the photo. I'm going slow as far as removing parts. I'm having z-axis errors, so is the next step to disassemble that part and inspect more closely. It says my motor has 239 hrs 12 min.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Z Axis errors can be:

A broken wire in the FSC Cable.

A loose wire in the FSC Cable, either end.....

Dust in the Encoder of the Z Motor. It has a clear disk that makes pulses. dirty then it looks like a stall.

Z Encoder Disk spinning free on shaft... Have seen that posted twice.... glue fixed it.

Bad Z Encoder. Usually a cracked solder pad.

Dirty Rails in the Z including the no mans land between the upper and lower bearings.

Dirt in the Z Belt cogs.

The board tipping up when it comes out from the rollers and meeting the bit causing a stall.

Loose Z Motor screws.

Loose screws holding the belt to the Z Truck.... Have seen that 3 times from LHR, with replacement Trucks, the screws on the belt were loose letting the belt slip. I had one and saw 2 others posted.

Try that....

O' and it's time for Cut Motor Brushes..... You might as well open the motor and blow out the dust on both sides of the shell if you don't have dust collection. The motor side of the fan sucks air into the cut motor near the brushes and out the muffler.... No dust collection the more dust is sucked through the cut motor.... Where do you think the dust in the bag comes from....?

AL

[oceanspook]

Thanks Al. Like your Navy ruler. Mike

[Digitalwoodshop]

Thanks Al. Like your Navy ruler. Mike

That is from a Recuiter Visit in 1974.... I don't think the number even works anymore.... Went to Bootcamp in Jan 76.

Retired in March 95.

FCC(SW)

[oceanspook]

I just went over 20 in June.

I was out of town this weekend, so I hope to dig back into the troubleshooting tonight.

[Capt Bruce]

Al Who and Oceanspook,

My salute for your service Shipmates. Enlisted Aug 70, retired June 2001. Seabees Can Do!