Machine not carving consistently

[odsratt]

Ok I have a serious problem. I have a program that i am trying to run. One time it will give great results, the next time it tears the project up so bad it is unsable, this is not acceptable as I am using expensive media to make these items.

[Digitalwoodshop]

I can't open the projects, I am still using the older software.

A picture of the result would be good.... You could just need masking tape for a problem in the X Direction....

AL

[odsratt]

here are a few pic to show my Jig, media, finished and butchered projects.


http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx37/odsratt/151.jpg
http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx37/odsratt/153.jpg
http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx37/odsratt/152.jpg
http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx37/odsratt/150.jpg

[odsratt]

Ok masking tape for roller in use. I also usually put tape across the top of the board to help hold the media in place.

[Router-Jim]

It looks to me like your acrylester is not holding solid during the carve. What are you using to hold it? :confused:

[odsratt]

masking tape across the top of the whole project. I get tired of recarving the jig for every set of cuts. it will double to triple the cost to keep doing that.

[buffybuttons]

it looks like there may be several problems. the head pressure may be too loose causing wood slippage and making the angled cut on the side of the rectangle. the z axis encoder may be dusty causing the intermittent grooving cuts. the plywood edge may not be square enough also contrubuting to an angular side on the rectangle cut.the head pressure and z axis problems can be intermittent causing good results when the head is tight enough and the dust is not blocking the regions of the z axis disc being read.

[Router-Jim]

masking tape across the top of the whole project. I get tired of recarving the jig for every set of cuts. it will double to triple the cost to keep doing that.


That's probably your problem. You don't need to make a new jig, you just need to hold that media stable. I'd probably use double stick tape on the bottom and possibly a couple of screws coming up from the bottom in a non carve area.

[odsratt]

All I know is its costing me more to make grips with the carewright than to make them by hand. VERY Disappointed in the quality of the machine so far.

[JDPratt]

I always try to make sure Al can retire comfortably by using 3M double sided tape. A couple strips of that stuff and the project will not move. In fact it is sometimes difficult to get it apart. Yep, 3M up .86 today

[spalted]

I have a couple of sleds with melamine and a couple with plastic laminate. this I can also hot glue stuff to, but you can't have anything to delicate because it takes a chisel or a small pry bar to get them off.

Hang in there odsratt, not long ago I was feeling the same way you are, it gets better.

[dbfletcher]

I have a couple of sleds with melamine and a couple with plastic laminate. this I can also hot glue stuff to, but you can't have anything to delicate because it takes a chisel or a small pry bar to get them off.

Hang in there odsratt, not long ago I was feeling the same way you are, it gets better.

I've used a heat gun or even a blow dryer to soften the hot glue to make it much easier to remove. You can normally just lift the item right off..

Doug Fletcher

[spalted]

Crap Doug! Why didn't I ever think of that? But nooooo....... I gotta go the brute force route right away......lol

Thanks

[liquidguitars]

I use 3/4 screws to hold the stock from the top side, and layout my sled 1:1.
so i do not have to guess where the CW cuts , see MPC below.

Once you get the hang of it you can use drywall screws without fear of hiting one. I use 3/4 thick sled bottoms" or thicker" with wood the same thickness as the caving on the top for the cap, if that makes sense.

LG

[CarverJerry]

Take a look at my sled. http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?t=14648 post #19 I believe, I use mine over and over for many different sizes.

CJ

[liquidguitars]

I always try to make sure Al can retire comfortably by using 3M double sided tape. A couple strips of that stuff and the project will not move. In fact it is sometimes difficult to get it apart. Yep, 3M up .86 today

I bet BP can plug the well head with it.. BP down 30% Al's tape up .86! :mrgreen: all kidding aside I just got a new roll of double sided today!

LG

[Digitalwoodshop]

I bet BP can plug the well head with it.. BP down 30% Al's tape up .86! :mrgreen: all kidding aside I just got a new roll today!

LG

Thank You for your Support.... LOL...:mrgreen:

Looking at the results of the carving, looks like something let go..... was flopping around..... HOT GLUE would be my first choice for this project.

I don't really care for using plywood for a jig.... Too many voids and not smooth...

If you are really serious about making lots of grips then the best answer to holding the blanks is a VACUUM AIR source.... A Sled with chambers cut below and a continuous vacuum pump.

I am planning one for cutting tags.... Using a vacuum switch hooked to the cover switch to stop the machine if the vacuum leaks too much.

I am still using double sided tape for now.

I would make the jig from PVC Board.....

I used small wooden wedges inside my sled to hold blocks of wood.... Points toward each other tap together to make tighter...

Good Luck,

AL

[spalted]

Al,
I have been considering a vacuum jig as a future add on also.

In the past I have made them from MDF for use on a pin router, spray the MDF with a few coats of laquer because its porous, then use a soft self adhesive weather striping to create a seal. around your vac ports drilled into the jig were you place your materials. (hope that makes sense, but I don't have any photos and if I did they wouldn't be digital)

Just thought it may give you some food for thought.

[www.go3d.us]

This machine is very picky. The board need to be extremely flat and straight, strong and must be again extremely flat and straight.
I think you need a better piece of wood (thicker, stronger) to use as a jig as thin plywood tend to bend under pressure. The piece need to be held securely at all time in the jig.
Also check if the ztruck is held tight on the rail as it get loosen over time.
Test carve on a scrap piece before doing the actual carve on a real thing.
HT

[odsratt]

This machine is very picky. The board need to be extremely flat and straight, strong and must be again extremely flat and straight.
I think you need a better piece of wood (thicker, stronger) to use as a jig as thin plywood tend to bend under pressure. The piece need to be held securely at all time in the jig.
Also check if the ztruck is held tight on the rail as it get loosen over time.
Test carve on a scrap piece before doing the actual carve on a real thing.
HT

The problwm ia when i do a test carve its fine. as soon as i start a second carving with the same boards it goes to hell. I have a 1 to 2 mm tolerance in the clearance with the media i use. So what I am looking for is something to reduce the waste material both in carving media and the jig. because right now I end up cutting an outline 1/8 in all the way aroud my project, which mean a new jig every two to three cuttings. LOts of waste.

[odsratt]

The problwm ia when i do a test carve its fine. as soon as i start a second carving with the same boards it goes to hell. I have a 1 to 2 mm tolerance in the clearance with the media i use. So what I am looking for is something to reduce the waste material both in carving media and the jig. because right now I end up cutting an outline 1/8 in all the way aroud my project, which mean a new jig every two to three cuttings. LOts of waste.

"I think you need a better piece of wood (thicker, stronger) to use as a jig as thin plywood tend to bend under pressure"

If 1inch plywoods is not good enough for a jig i do not know what is. Pure hardwoods like oak or hickory or maybe an exotic like Cocoba? that would be a true waste of money. Not like this machine is not a big enough money sink as is.

[liquidguitars]

Your going to have a little wast but no need to destroy your work if you layout right.

here is how i build mine I have over 20 sleds that i use.

http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?t=14648&highlight=sled

LG

[odsratt]

Your going to have a little wast but no need to destroy your work if you layout right.

here is how i build mine I have over 20 sled that i use.

http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?t=14648&highlight=sled

LG

Ok so based on that I will still end up replacing the side boards each time. My biggest problem is the size of my media has a zero tolerance on it I am carving side to side and actually into the jig. Mind you I would not mind this if I could reuse and get quality cuttings each time.

[liquidguitars]

I think it comes down to waste over a good clean part, I know, I struggle with working with Ebony wood, very expensive and now getting rare, I opted for making my blank a little bit bigger to fasten the ends with screws, it a little bit faster than tape for me and i can make fine adjustments centers for 2 sided MPC's on my sleds- two sided tape good 2 as long as you have no slipping.

LG

[odsratt]

I think it comes down to waste over a good clean part, I know, I struggle with working with Ebony wood, very expensive and now getting rare, I opted for making my blank a little bit bigger to fasten the ends with screws, it a little bit faster than tape for me and i can make fine adjustments centers for 2 sided MPC's on my sleds- two sided tape good 2 as long as you have no slipping.

LG

I do agree with that. My problem is I can not get the media in larger sizes it is 1.5"x.375"x6" I can make it thicker but not wider or longer. Thickness becomes an issue over 3/8" too much sanding to get proper fit. So with no room in width to play with I am stuck. I can not even put in cut out tabs so i need a good method to keep the piece in place to carve. Even using screws is not an option due to the fact i carve the full length of the boards and through the entire thickness.

[liquidguitars]

That makes sense.. back to 2 sided tape with a bigger sled but the same pocket size as media should do the trick..

LG

[liquidguitars]

I not sure if this will work for you but here is a side by side version..

cut a piece of 3/4 plywood 17" x 6" place wood in the unit then run the "sledlayoutR03.mpc" when finished, add the 3/8" deadwood sides to the scribed lines second, Only use glue on the sled when adding the dead wood cap. load the sled with your medium, use 2 sided tape on the bottom of the pocket, place the media tight to the sides.



At the keypad select the following,

stay under rollers = no
keep the same = yes
place on corner 03
cut to size = no

good luck!

[TIMCOSBY]

a bigger sled and put in 1" spacers all around and after you get it hot glued into position remove the spacers and they would be reuseable. as long as you have 3/4" on the keyboard side and far side for the rollers to push on you will be o.k.

[TIMCOSBY]

Ok masking tape for roller in use. I also usually put tape across the top of the board to help hold the media in place.

material into the pockets and put tape on top and it stay. this is not the machines fault its pilot error. if your going to use a pocket sled like that you must use hot glue or some other method of securing the media. also when it carves part of the sled away dont worry about it as long as you glue the media into the proper position that gap wont bother anything.

[Metalhead781]

This is a bit more work and a little bit of an expense however may be worth it. Along with that this is only a suggestion. Machine your holes into the material On the sled, use the cw to machine small pockets and glue in nylon nuts in the base in the proper location. Use nylon screws to hold the pieces in place, Keep in mind that the holes need to be countersunk with a tapered head screw because obviously the head is going to be machined as well. If it works, you'll still have your counter sunk holes for the scales and enough of the nylon screw head left to hold it. Use a cheap easy out to remove the screws and the piece from the sled. If it works well, you can buy the screws you need online a lot cheaper and in bulk compared to a small package at the store. You could also put T nuts in from the back of the sled, just make sure to countersink them with a larger flat cutting bit or a pocket with the cw on the back side. Don't let them stick out. With this setup it shouldn't matter how much the side rails get damaged on the inside edges. The positioning, as long as your holes are accurate in the material, Will be the same every time as long as the machine holds up.

Good Luck

MH

[Metalhead781]

This is a bit more work and a little bit of an expense however may be worth it. Along with that this is only a suggestion. Machine your holes into the material On the sled, use the cw to machine small pockets and glue in nylon nuts in the base in the proper location. Use nylon screws to hold the pieces in place, Keep in mind that the holes need to be countersunk with a tapered head screw because obviously the head is going to be machined as well. If it works, you'll still have your counter sunk holes for the scales and enough of the nylon screw head left to hold it. Use a cheap easy out to remove the screws and the piece from the sled. If it works well, you can buy the screws you need online a lot cheaper and in bulk compared to a small package at the store. You could also put T nuts in from the back of the sled, just make sure to countersink them with a larger flat cutting bit or a pocket with the cw on the back side. Don't let them stick out. With this setup it shouldn't matter how much the side rails get damaged on the inside edges. The positioning, as long as your holes are accurate in the material, Will be the same every time as long as the machine holds up.

Good Luck

MH

P.S. you might want to mill a small pocked over the screws first by using the drill function down to the depth of the top surface as a "roughing pass" so you don't chip in that material.

[www.go3d.us]

"I think you need a better piece of wood (thicker, stronger) to use as a jig as thin plywood tend to bend under pressure"

If 1inch plywoods is not good enough for a jig i do not know what is. Pure hardwoods like oak or hickory or maybe an exotic like Cocoba? that would be a true waste of money. Not like this machine is not a big enough money sink as is.

I think using solid piece of pine would be much better than plywood. No need to use expensive wood.
Also you need a wider board for your jig maybe 4".
I see in your first picture and it appear that the piece didn't sit snugly inside the jig? There are blank spaces around the piece? If that is the case, use hot glue as suggested by AL above.

I also look at your project file and I see that you also put a carve region the same size as the jig area which is not necessary. And that could be the cause of the problem. As the machine carve it might not start at the exact location of your jig. So as it carve, it carved into the jig itself making it larger and that caused your piece to move around.

This is what I would do.
Remove the carve region from your project. Set the height to 999, set the depth to .22 (or maybe .2) so there will be some material left for piece to to have something to hold on to (this could eliminate the edge breakage). The extra material can be cut out by hand. If setting the depth to .22/.20 is not an option then hot glue is need as suggested by AL above. :)
When carving select jog to position and jog right to the corner where the jig area starts (mostly at the corner on keypad side.) When mearsuring the board select jog to touch and jog right on the material instead of the wood area around the jig.

Let the machine doing the rough carve and finish the rest by hand. Like cut out the piece and drilling the holes are much safer by hand.

Good luck.
HT

[odsratt]

I think using solid piece of pine would be much better than plywood. No need to use expensive wood.
Also you need a wider board for your jig maybe 4".
I see in your first picture and it appear that the piece didn't sit snugly inside the jig? There are blank spaces around the piece? If that is the case, use hot glue as suggested by AL above.

I also look at your project file and I see that you also put a carve region the same size as the jig area which is not necessary. And that could be the cause of the problem. As the machine carve it might not start at the exact location of your jig. So as it carve, it carved into the jig itself making it larger and that caused your piece to move around.

This is what I would do.
Remove the carve region from your project. Set the height to 999, set the depth to .22 (or maybe .2) so there will be some material left for piece to to have something to hold on to (this could eliminate the edge breakage). The extra material can be cut out by hand. If setting the depth to .22/.20 is not an option then hot glue is need as suggested by AL above. :)
When carving select jog to position and jog right to the corner where the jig area starts (mostly at the corner on keypad side.) When mearsuring the board select jog to touch and jog right on the material instead of the wood area around the jig.

Let the machine doing the rough carve and finish the rest by hand. Like cut out the piece and drilling the holes are much safer by hand.

Good luck.
HT

i agree with what you are saying in theory. but the size of the material does not allow for either depth or width to be changed. the cut out you see around the piece is how much the bit take off the jig from previous runs. the size has a zero run for error in size. I do drill the whole aftre due to having to counter sink on both front and back. but I do not have the luxury to leave material around the grip due to cutting the entire width of the piece. I can not make depth any deeper also due to size of starting material.
thanks for the suggestion will try to use what i can on a few tonight when i get to work on them.