Please Close Cover

[wizer]

I have just been running a project that I have been getting help on from the fine members of this forum. I finally got everything setup just right. Designer said it would take 7hrs but I went ahead, thinking I could just split it up into 90min runs. After the 3hrs in, I opened the cover, vacuumed out as much as I could but when I replaced the cover, it just said "Please Close Cover".

I can hear the double click from each micro switch as I open and close the cover. I have tried holding them in with screw drivers, no joy. I cancelled out of the job, removed the board, vac'd out as much dust as I could, blasted some compressed air to dislodge some more, vac'd more.

Nothing I am doing is getting rid of this message. The sensor information in the menu says that the cover is open.

Any further help? I could literally cry :( This was a project for a friend and he needed it tomorrow!

[cnsranch]

Sometimes the switch moves back enough that it won't make full contact. Last time I had the problem, I simply tightened the two screws that hold the switch in place - fixed it.

After the cover is closed, give the lid a rap with the palm of your hand right over the switch and see if it makes a diff.

If not, could be several things that others will respond with.

[CarverJerry]

Hang in there Wizer, I'm sure maybe Al or someone will ring in and give you some real advise as these guys really know their sh!@ with these machines. Be sure to do a search and see if you can find anything as I'm sure I've read a lot of threads about your problem. Good luck

CJ

[DocWheeler]

Wizer,

This can be caused by static electric (vacuuming too close to the keypad, it will self correct after awhile), bad or dirty switch, wiring, or the circuit board.
Here is one of the latest posts (http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?p=128431&highlight=close+cover#post128431) that can be found by searching "close cover".

[Kenm810]

Mine acted like Jerry's the first time -- it slid back just a fraction of an inch and gave me a "close cover error" even though it was clicking,
I moved it forward and I was back to carving. The next time the contacts must have been dirty or dusty and a shot of electric contact cleaner took care of it.
Third time it was a loose connection at the circuit Board.

[cnsranch]

Doc/Ken - I had a thought (ALWAYS dangerous)...

The thought occurred to me to put a drop of hot glue on the contact point of the cover - increases the depth of the point - whaddya think?

I rarely get the error, when I do, it's due to the distance between the switch and the cover.

[wizer]

Thanks everyone. I just panicked and posted. Should have searched, sorry.

First question. Everyone seems to be talking about a single switch, but it looks like I have two? Or am I mis-understanding something? There is one on the left which appears to be larger in size with a white cable that heads towards the cut motor (this wire is in a black sheath). Then there is a switch on the left which is smaller but I can't see where it's wires go. ?


I have tried air dusting the machine which doesn't seem to have fixed it. In a moment I will go back and see if it's reset itself, but I did try loading a new smaller board which was much smaller in width. This didn't seem to have any effect.

This is a quote from the thread Kent posted:




Does the Z encoder data read OK? A pinched board detector can cause the Z to not move, board data to read 0 and a open cover error.


Can someone explain this a bit clearer, where is the board sensor?

I really appreciate the help guys. It seems this is a very temperamental machine and one has to treat it with kid gloves. Not like the rest of the machinery in the shop.

[wizer]

Doc/Ken - I had a thought (ALWAYS dangerous)...

The thought occurred to me to put a drop of hot glue on the contact point of the cover - increases the depth of the point - whaddya think?

I rarely get the error, when I do, it's due to the distance between the switch and the cover.

If this is the case then I should be able to diagnose with inserting something into the switch to get it to read 'closed'? I did try this with a flat blade screw driver but it made no difference. Do both switches need to be pressed at the same time?

[AskBud]

The "Cover Switch" is the one on the KeyBoard side. Yes You can test it via the sensor checks. The other switch is for the motor shut down.
AskBud

[Digitalwoodshop]

:roll:AL Ways here......:roll:and Dangerous...

Everyone above is correct.... 2 switches.... Left talks to the computer and is the source of the open cover error. The right switch is the Cut Motor Return Safety Switch. Just pushing that one in with a screw driver can cause the Cut Motor to Click...

Using Options, Sensor Data you can look at the status of the cover switch. What the computer is seeing. It will most likely say cover open now. Use a screw driver to activate the left switch and see if the status changes. It is common that sawdust gets inside this switch and prevents the contacts from touching. You can blow the sawdust out.

The Cable from the switch can become loose and with the new Z Bundle this plug should have the white wire toward the center of the machine.
The plug can be installed 180 out and will give you a constant open cover.

Then there is a possibility that your Vacuum Cleaner hose produced thousands of volts of static electricity and has KILLED your machine....

This has been a common problem.... The cheaper the hose with more plastic the more ZAP... The more expensive, the more carbon to conduct the static to ground.

If you can't get the close cover to work in Options and Sensor Data then install a board, place a piece of white paper on the board and read the board sensor data. Should be between 140 to 156 with white copy paper. If you get a ZERO Reading then we need to be thinking about a Killed Computer.... That can get expensive..... Lets hope it's OK....

I also recommend attaching a ground wire to a out feed tray on the machine to bleed off static when you vacuum the machine...

Let us know what you find. In my picture the 16 pin is really a 18 pin old style... I had CRS that day.... and did not catch it for many months...

AL

[wizer]

Well I had a little time earlier to investigate this. I unscrewed the switch and tried pushing it in. It clicks fine, but doesn't change the display warning.

I then checked the board sensor reading.... 39 :(

What does this mean?

[Digitalwoodshop]

Since you have it out.... Use a screwdriver and try to short the switch leads to show if the switch is bad. Sawdust inside the switch has made many a user upset.... It is plugged in the right way and all the way in?

A board sensor of 39 could be good if the head is cranked up and not on a board. Crank it down on a board WITH a sheet of white copy paper on it.

The Paper makes for a standard.... A board can be so many colors and the readings all over the place. 140 to 156 white paper.

AL

[wizer]

Well. Good news and bad news. I shorted the switch wires and made the display change to closed. Fantastic! I then tried to bridge it with a piece of wire so that I could do some tests. But now when I press & on the main menu, I get a 303 Y Axis Stall?

[Digitalwoodshop]

I would look for some loose cables around the Y Motor. Shut power off and start over sometimes helps clear the errors. Sometimes it does not get the correct Y Home sequence and slams into the keyboard side.

Re Boot and see....

The Switch can be opened and cleaned too....

Y Stall..... I BET..... If you open the cover while it is carving and the cover switch is bypassed the cut motor stops and you get a Y Stall..... with the left switch that talks to the computer bypassed, you MUST press STOP before opening the cover.... I bet that is what the Y Stall is all about....

AL

[wizer]

Al, thanks so much for helping me on this. All day I have been thinking that I'm going to have to give this thing to my friend to use as an anchor on his boat! :(

I'm sure I read somewhere that to stop the machine while it's carving to clean, you just flip up the cover. Damit, I wish I knew you had to press the stop key! I blame information overload.

After the large MDF job that it failed on, the machine needs a clean. Do you think it would be worth me stipping it down, giving it a good clean and applying lube where needed?

I will try to clean out the switch. If that does not work, do you think it would be ok to just fix a standard switch to it? Or even solder the wires together?

I have a ful day to myself tomorrow so should get some time with the machine.

[Digitalwoodshop]

I believe that the machine being new is just tripping you up a little. We call it pilot error.... Reading Tips and Tricks will help the Pilot error stuff...

It is all about understanding the machine.... Knowing that yes, you can just lift the cover and the machine will stop. Knowing that LHR recommends you press stop and wait... If you are in a big project and you open the cover and there is sawdust in the left switch and it does not let go but the right switch does... Then the cut motor stops but the machine keeps moving... If you are using the 1/8 inch cut bit than it usually snaps.... The 1/16 carving bit is stronger and you will stall.

Fiber board makes such fine and nasty dust..... You really need to look into the options for a dust collector.... I was one of the first that I know of making a dust collector. There are some selling it here and I expect Bud will chime in advertising his plans for one.

Once you remove the cover a few things can trip you up.... Knowing that you must support the clear cover while moving the top cover Assembly. There is nothing keeping the clear cover from folding into the top Assembly except for the 2 switches that are acting as mechanical stops.... LHR never designed into the cover a mechanical stop. It presses on both switches and many times I see posted.... "I had loose cover switch screws" What really happened is the clear cover pressed on the switches while being carried and split the plastic holes that the screws are in..... Handle with CARE.... Sometimes it pushes in SO hard the switch contacts get BENT and won't operate..... HMmmmmmm...... Sounds like our switch problem....

Jacking the machine too high and having to use the hole to prime the jacking screw is common.

The wires from the right side Cut Motor.... When you replace the cover you must remember to tuck the wires into the corner. If not, the Z Motor hits the wires and the Bit Flag won't come out far enough....

Get in the habit of watching the bit touch the bit flag at every bit change. 2 Touches GOOD... 3 Touches BAD.... Look for dirt in the Z belt or bearings... If the Bit Flag does not come out far enough then the bit will miss and you get a "Load Bit" error... Thinking you did not install a bit.....

The Homing of the Z and the Y use a bump into a mechanical limit stop looking for a increase in current.... Same with touching the bit flag.... Looks for an increase in current.... A lump of dust on the rail can cause the Z to stop early and give you a AIR CARVE, bit in the air....

SO much to learn..... Tips and Tricks really helps...

A Electrical Contact cleaner can fix you dust impacted switch. It is better to FIX the switch. I wish LHR has used a magnetic reed switch here for this low voltage application. Dust in this open switch is VERY Common....

By passing the cover switches is never good..... Just think when you are in the final hour of a 6 hour carve and in your excitement you open the cover to clean the unit.... Forgetting you bypassed the switch.... Now the cut motor stops because the safety switch turns it off... But the head keeps going.... You stall and must start the whole project over....

Read up on Starting after a stall.... Placing a box over the already carved area and assigning a zero depth..... You may need it... I just let it carve over.....

Remember the Right Side of Designer is the end that goes into the machine first and the top of designer is where the brass roller runs along the board.
So you know where to draw the box....

Learn about staying under the rollers..... If you are only held by one roller the board can move and cause a stall..... A Cut Path with the cut near the end of the board and under one roller and many times you snap the bit. Tips and Tricks will help with sleds and place on end use.

Pictures of my dust collection. I suck 25% from the bottom slot and 75% top suction. I run a ground wire between the frame of the dust collector to the machine in 3 places. Watch using a vacuum cleaner with the dust... I will generate high voltage static and kill your machine.

I post all this junk just to prime you on the many things we need to know about our machine. You are at a slight handicap on the other side of the pond. Greybeard a early member of the Forum is on your side of the pond. He can be a source of ideas....

Get a Rock or CT as soon as you can before the QC damages the board detector, L2 Coil in the Power Supply, and the C1 Cap on the X Termination Board.

Good Luck,

AL

[wizer]

Thanks very much Al. I will start by cleaning as much dust as I can get to. Then I will look at the switch. If I can't fix it I will have to see if I can find a replacement local. I do have some microswitches, but they are a bit bigger than these.

[wizer]

Ok I have just given the machine a thourough clean. It's now spottless after using brushes, air blower and shop vac.

Should I be able to move the Y Truck? For some reason it won't budge?

When I power the machine on and press 7 it moves the Z up and down and then the Y left and right, then stalls.

Any ideas what this means?

[Digitalwoodshop]

Looks like it is time for some serious troubleshooting.....

With the power off for a few minutes that will release the power to the servos, you should be able to move the Y. Wait until the power lock dissipates... If it still won't move.....

Remove the right side outer cover to access a spring loaded screw that holds tension to the right side idle pulley. Remove the screw on top that is part of the cut motor cover. This removes the gear box and motor from the Y motion. Look for a frozen bearing... I have had them....

The bearings have a center drilled version and a offset drilled version that acts like a cam. Using is thin 13 mm ?? wrench you can turn the bearing to unlock it from the rails if needed. Careful they can snap off.... Your in luck... It's metric....

Inspect the gear box and motor too.... look for sawdust contamination in the belt.

How many cut motor hours do you have? Close to 500 and the bearings in the Y Gear box can do this... Picture 1

Note the picture of the bearing with the red nail polish on it... I mark the outside flat so I know when the bearing is at top dead center closed....

Let us know....

AL

[wizer]

Right Al. I have just been in the workshop trying to work some of this out. I could not work out what you meant by 'Remove the right side outer cover to access a spring loaded screw' So in the end I removed the head cover. With that off and the flex shaft removed I started to have a look around. I blasted some more dust out and vacc'd some more. The Y Truck would still not move, then I managed to work it free. It seems it was stuck on some dust embeded to the rail.

I put the head back on and the flex shaft, then powered it up. It will now measure a board, no problem. I have not run a project, but I check the sensor data. It still ready around 40 with a piece of mahogany under it. With white copy paper I get 0

I meant to say earlier. The cut hours are just 12

Any tips on what my next move should be? Is there somethings I should be doing to make sure these problems don't happen again?

I need to replace the microswitch that is clearly damaged, but as yet I can't find an exact match

[Icutone2]

WIZER, Look at Raidoshack I found one there.
Lee

[DocWheeler]

Wizer,

Al was talking about the "back" cover, At the end of the Y belt is an idler gear that is fastened to the frame by a screw at the top (top removed to get at it easily) and a screw with a spring that can be accessed when the back cover is removed.
To tension the belt, tighten the screw with the spring first and then tighten the one that holds that tension (the one on top). If the one on top is loose, when it is pulling hard it can compress the spring and the belt will jump cogs so that the encoder will lose its position.

If you are getting a reading of zero with white paper each time, you probably have a sensor problem (dirt, wiring, plug, or broken leads).

Problems will arise again, but since you have learned their cause and solutions, they are no big deal.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Good Job so far... As posted above, the silver metal panel opposite the keypad must be removed if you ever need to remove the Y belt. Like the spring screw on top of the Z motor, the Y has one too on the far side under the cover.

Because the wood color you may need to cover some of the board left and right under the head and at the edges in length at the end of the board. This will let the board sensor see the board and the edges.

There are 2 LED's and one receiver. The machine shines light on the board and looks for a return of reflective IR Light. Dark Wood prevents much of a return and that is where the 40 comes in... You need to crank the head down on the paper to get the 140 reading. Too far away with the head up you don't get much reflection.

You should order some Board Detectors. More than likely you have dust on the outside lens of the board detector. Wipe it clean. If you do that and still have a low number you will need to open the board detector and clean the lens. I slice down the back side and then slide the lens out. Sometimes the QC will vibrate the LED's until they snap off. Getting a ROCK or CT will help prevent this. I seal the back side with masking tape, catching the edge of the window.

And yes, you found how easy a lump of sawdust on the rail acts like a speed bump and jams the axis... This is why a dust collection system is SO important.

Picture 1 shows where the board detector cable plugs into the top. I recommend EVERYONE buy a extra board detector cable to help in troubleshooting later. You can plug the extra plug in at the top and check out a repaired board detector. I bet I have about 20 broken board detectors before LHR started to glue the circuit board to the black plastic holder... A real waste of money... The Rock helped that too.

Good Luck,

AL

[wizer]

Ok the time difference is making this more drawn out than it needs to be. I won't get a chance to work on it again until tomorrow now.

I have found a replacement micro switch.

I will try again with the copy paper, but I did have the head cranked down and locked.

Looks like I am going to be making an order from LHR. Can you tell me what other parts I might be needing in the future? It's going ot make sense for me to buy a few things at once seeing as the shipping is going to kill me.

I will look into getting the Rock shipped over to me too.

This machine is starting to get expensive. It better settle down and make some of it's money back soon ;)

Thanks everyone. Appreciate helping out johnny foreigner! ;)

[Digitalwoodshop]

Since you asked.... The LIST...


Board Detector

Board Detector Cable

Make sure you have the new Z Bundle and order an extra 14 pin FSC Cable

Cut Motor Brushes

Sand Paper Belts

Flex Shaft

Rail Bearings for the Y and Z plus screws. The solid and offset cam bearing.

Z Truck without a QC. It is easy to damage a Truck trying to remove the QC for the ROCK so asking for it without a QC is better.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Over kill but it could save you in the long run on shipping now.

Cut Motor

Power Supply

X Termination Board

Z Servo Motor. Can be used for the Y too if need be by changing the circuit board.

AL

[wizer]

Thanks Al

Is there a pric list available online for parts? I can't find anything. Do I just have to call LHR?

[Digitalwoodshop]

You could submit a email with the list and have them give you a price and order number for you to call in with a Credit Card. Saves time if they put you on hold to ask a tech...

AL

[wizer]

Common Sense when you think about it ;)

Thanks Al. I'm off to sell my house to pay for it all..... :D

[Digitalwoodshop]

Common Sense when you think about it ;)

Thanks Al. I'm off to sell my house to pay for it all..... :D


My last order for parts was $700.00..... But that was Jan 2009....

In the past when I would call for parts, I would ask for something and the person would need to talk to Tech Support and I would be put on hold.

I have a Voice over IP Phone called Magic Jack so $20.00 for a year of calls... Never worried about being put on hold.... But from the other side of the pond.... Ouch....

Good Luck,

AL