Anybody seen this yet?

[JDPratt]

Not that I am looking to replace my CW, but this may make a nice addition to my shop. www.stingerCNC.com

For those who are members of Sawmill Creek there are discounts offered. I know Al is drooling. Al...?

[mtylerfl]

Not that I am looking to replace my CW, but this may make a nice addition to my shop. www.stingerCNC.com (http://www.stingerCNC.com)

For those who are members of Sawmill Creek there are discounts offered. I know Al is drooling. Al...?

Here's some more info...look at the starting price...waay more $$ than a CarveWright...

Features are
- 25” x 36” x 5” Cutting Area
- Bosch PR20EVSK Colt Variable-speed Router
- Standard 3 axis High Definition Microstep Drive System
- Rack & Pinion on all Axes
- Sealed MDF Tabletop
- Hiwin Bearings And Rails On All Axes
- Dust Hood
- E-Stop
- Limit Switches On All Axes With Soft Limits
- Welded Frame
- Cut 2D Design Program
- Mach 3 Windows PC-Based CNC Control System

Starting at $4995

Upgrades are:
- T Slot Clamping System - $249.00
- Aluminum Tooling Plate - $495.00
- Mini Recoil Indexing Lathe - $995.00
- Porter Cable 2.25HP Router - $95.00
- Windows XP Computer & Monitor - $549.00
- V Carve Pro - $450.00
- Aspire - $1,800.00

[JDPratt]

Initial start up is definitely more than CW, but......

Might be neat for the "serious" hobbiest to add to the CW. I was actually looking more at the full size Camaster with 4th axis for the (work) shop. It could handle some of the larger things I do and use the CW for the smaller stuff. The full size isn't for the hobbiest $$$$, but for the shop I work in it might be nice. Of course the big boss would have to bless off on it. That could be tricky. The hardest part for me would be learning the Vcarve or Aspire.

[Digitalwoodshop]

It is a very nice machine. I think at this time in my business I would sub a job that big out to my Neighbor Guy Mathews with 2 big machines.

AL

http://www.newwavewoodworking.com/

[JDPratt]

Man! I wish I had a neighbor like Guy Mathews. You are indeed a lucky man. If you could get Mr. Mcgrew to move in on the other side, you three could put everyone out of business.

[Fletcher]

This CW machine has lit a fire in me! It has me addicted like a drug to being able to create shapes like never before out of wood. I neeeeeed more(depth that is...)!!!

I'm contemplating building a machine...

[mtylerfl]

Initial start up is definitely more than CW, but......

Might be neat for the "serious" hobbiest to add to the CW. I was actually looking more at the full size Camaster with 4th axis for the (work) shop. It could handle some of the larger things I do and use the CW for the smaller stuff. The full size isn't for the hobbiest $$$$, but for the shop I work in it might be nice. Of course the big boss would have to bless off on it. That could be tricky. The hardest part for me would be learning the Vcarve or Aspire.

Yeah - most hobbyists couldn't come close to justifying the cost of course. If you ever get one, I actually think the one of the easiest stages would be learning the Aspire and/or VCarve software - you can get productive pretty quickly if you have a good graphics background. But, like almost everything else, you never really stop learning! Also - no need to get BOTH Aspire and VCarve - the Aspire software has everything that VCarve Pro has plus all the modeling and scultping capabilities.

[JDPratt]

A good graphics background? Sorry, that is definitely where I would be lacking. Thats why I like this forum so much, there is always someone willing to help out on the patterns. I guess I could always get my boss to hire someone who knows this stuff. Then I could focus on the woodworking aspects. Thats what I really enjoy anyway. CNC just seems to offer so many capabilities to what I can do with my woodworking. That, and the fact that it is a lot quicker than the way I used to do this stuff; chisels and routers.

[Bill]

PROTOTYPE PREVIEW: SHOPBOT JAMBOREE (4/23/10)

Three advanced prototypes of the Tyro were shown at this year's ShopBot Jamboree, April 23rd. Gordon Berfgors, head of ShopBot's development group, presented the Tyros and discussed the project. He described how several stages of ShopBotter input have been used to help define the goals for the tool. We are very appreciative of the help and encouragement we've had from ShopBotters and were pleased to give them the first peak at the tool during the Jamboree.
The tools will have a work area of 18" x 24" x 4" and will be enclosed. They have movement resolution of .00025 with very little backlash. They will be shipped with ShopBot PartWorks software and will be available with a router or spindle. The target price is $3995 (without router). We expect to begin shipping Tyros in about 8 weeks.
http://www.shopbottools.com/images/Projects/Tyro_protoF_router_Langle_encl.jpg

Tyro with Router
http://www.shopbottools.com/images/Projects/Tyro_protoF_spindle_front.jpg

Tyro with Spindle (enclosure removed for illustration)

[TIMCOSBY]

now has something called the shark for $2500.??

[wizer]

Before I even bought the CW, I knew I'd eventually upgrade to a full CNC machine. In fact I'd never have bought the CW if I hadn't got it at the right price. I would be torn between buying one of these off the shelf solutions or building it from scratch myself. The benefit of building it myself would be that I'd know the machine inside out if I needed to repair anything. The downside would be no backup support, guarantee, etc.

[TIMCOSBY]

that had it
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=19441&filter=shark

[Metalhead781]

I'm looking at two new machines, hopefully soon. First is 24x24x2 4 axis no software with rebuilt pc for $1900 plus freight. Second is 24x48 x 5 4axis with the same for $3600. On the second machine, 4th axis is 49". I'm looking at the pair both made by the same company. The smaller for smaller jobs and more carving then anything. The larger one for large turnings, my rifle stocks and large signs.

[cnc4me]

You might want to take a look at Torchmate, they have a 2x2 table system that you can mount a router to. This unit is about 2 grand without router attachment. I have one and use it with my plasma cutter to cut out metal. Its a nice machine for the price.

[mtylerfl]

Something to consider...

On those particular machines mentioned here, it would be a lot tougher to make a 4 foot-long sign (or longer), or a tall bookcase side, or any other project length that won't fit on those fixed carving area "beds".

That's what's so cool about the CarveWright - even though the width of stock is limited to about 14.5", you can use much longer LENGTH boards than most machines selling for 2 or 3 times (or more) the price of a CarveWright. It's a lot easier to do board edge glue-ups to make a finished width more than 14" than it would be to do "end-grain" glue-ups from one of those more expensive machines to make "long" boards!

[pkunk]

Something to consider...

On those particular machines mentioned here, it would be a lot tougher to make a 4 foot-long sign (or longer), or a tall bookcase side, or any other project length that won't fit on those fixed carving area "beds".

That's what's so cool about the CarveWright - even though the width of stock is limited to about 14.5", you can use much longer LENGTH boards than most machines selling for 2 or 3 times (or more) the price of a CarveWright. It's a lot easier to do board edge glue-ups to make a finished width more than 14" than it would be to do "end-grain" glue-ups from one of those more expensive machines to make "long" boards!
Exactly.:) I'm currently designing a sign thats 3ft high by 7 ft long. Do that on a fixed table rig.:mrgreen:

[Fletcher]

Exactly.:) I'm currently designing a sign thats 3ft high by 7 ft long. Do that on a fixed table rig.:mrgreen:

You could, if you build a 4x8 table. You could do it in one piece, with 6 inch deep carves...

[Metalhead781]

There is no comparison between other machines and the CW. The other machines are not limited by this software. You can tell them what bit your are going to use. As far as length. Sliding and re-indexing a board two or three times is a lot less hassle in my opinion then trying to edge glue a carved region split in half. Yes i've done both. A machine with even with a palm router is more robust. There are no dirty board sensors or close cover issues. Even the cheapest and smallest of these machines is more powerful between the router and the drive motors then the CW would be any day. The cons are there too. You have to figure out exactly what you're doing. If you tell the machine to plunge through something you don't want to plunge through, it will. Software isn't included but there are outstanding software packages out there that when considering the upgrades for the CW designer are a far better deal, again in my opinion.

The CW is what it is however you could never convince me that it's better for any reason then a comparably priced Real CNC Router. I've been in a position to have operated machines that cost $20k and thought that it wasn't worth it also $4k machines that are worth gold. Bringing it down to the fact that i bought a CW to show people what i can do with a cnc Router for business reasons and it's cost me enough extra money between bad chucks crappy software upgrades and other supportive items that i need to have just to keep it going through half the warranty. If i could have financed one of the machines i'm going to be getting hopefully soon. It would have cost me less in the long run. For grandpa to make something cool for the grand kids, fine. Not even LHR will tell you the CW is anything more then that.

Again this is my opinion
MH

[Fletcher]

There is no comparison between other machines and the CW. The other machines are not limited by this software. You can tell them what bit your are going to use. As far as length. Sliding and re-indexing a board two or three times is a lot less hassle in my opinion then trying to edge glue a carved region split in half. Yes i've done both. A machine with even with a palm router is more robust. There are no dirty board sensors or close cover issues. Even the cheapest and smallest of these machines is more powerful between the router and the drive motors then the CW would be any day. The cons are there too. You have to figure out exactly what you're doing. If you tell the machine to plunge through something you don't want to plunge through, it will. Software isn't included but there are outstanding software packages out there that when considering the upgrades for the CW designer are a far better deal, again in my opinion.

The CW is what it is however you could never convince me that it's better for any reason then a comparably priced Real CNC Router. I've been in a position to have operated machines that cost $20k and thought that it wasn't worth it also $4k machines that are worth gold. Bringing it down to the fact that i bought a CW to show people what i can do with a cnc Router for business reasons and it's cost me enough extra money between bad chucks crappy software upgrades and other supportive items that i need to have just to keep it going through half the warranty. If i could have financed one of the machines i'm going to be getting hopefully soon. It would have cost me less in the long run. For grandpa to make something cool for the grand kids, fine. Not even LHR will tell you the CW is anything more then that.

Again this is my opinion
MH

Agreed, the CW has its place but don't try to compare apples to oranges... I too come from a heavy cnc background (20 years experience) and like the cw for what it does with long boards. But I would take deeper cutting capability, and more user control any day over being able to cut a 12' long board.

[mtylerfl]

It really boils down to the target demographic of the CarveWright, which is primarily the home woodworker. The basic goal was to bring CNC capabilities to the average Joe at an affordable price, along with reasonably easy to learn/use software.

Occasionally, we see here on the forum that some folks want "big" CNC features, but at the same time, are sometimes a bit reluctant to pay for them. Overall, I believe the CarveWright system is hands-down the best CNC value available considering its features and price for the particular market it is designed for. Of course it is correct that we can't really compare "conventional" CNC machines to the CarveWright because there is nothing else quite like it.

Man, do I love my CarveWright machines! I too have the CNC "bug" and wouldn't be surprised if someday I get a "big" machine too, but I'm already happy and am able to accomplish pretty much anything I want to do so far!;)

[Digitalwoodshop]

It really boils down to the target demographic of the CarveWright, which is primarily the home woodworker. The basic goal was to bring CNC capabilities to the average Joe at an affordable price, along with reasonably easy to learn/use software.

Occasionally, we see here on the forum that some folks want "big" CNC features, but at the same time, are sometimes a bit reluctant to pay for them. Overall, I believe the CarveWright system is hands-down the best CNC value available considering its features and price for the particular market it is designed for. Of course it is correct that we can't really compare "conventional" CNC machines to the CarveWright because there is nothing else quite like it.

Man, do I love my CarveWright machines! I too have the CNC "bug" and wouldn't be surprised if someday I get a "big" machine too, but I'm already happy and am able to accomplish pretty much anything I want to do so far!;)

"Diddo"..... The machine meets my needs and honestly I make some pretty cool stuff with the machine.

Having the ability to cut Fire Tags into any shape I need is priceless. I am working on a Quote for a new Fire Dept and the 2 designs I needed had to be custom cut to size.

I am getting ready to cut a new sign now and I am painting 4 others at the moment. This machine in it's current configuration with a Rock or CT is fantastic.

AL

[glassocean]

Interesting thread so far, I'll give my 2 cents. I believe the CW is a fabulous machine for the money, and after comparing apples, and a few oranges, it's by far the best bang for your buck. Comparing the cutting capacity of each machine, the CW only cuts 14.5 wide, but will cut 8' lengths. None of these other machines can come close to that. (except full size models)
CW has an easy to learn software program that is included, and now the DXF importer makes it a complete machine. ( but I'm still not happy with the price) All of these other machines require software to design and software to cut, and learning Mach3 and Vcarve will take some time, and money. If you have ever seen some of these machines in action, you might chuckle. The Shark uses a dremel, and off brand software. I've seen it in action and what a piece of $2500 junk.
If you want an upgrade in ability and size, you might consider building your own (like Joe's 4x4 Hybrid) If you do build one, it helps to know electronics and be exceptionally handy. This machine can be built for around $2000-3000, with helpful forums included in the $100 plan price. (I'm a member)
I would also consider a large scale Shopbot or even a Chinese CNC system. They are quite affordable and most have spindles over routers. They are all over ebay.

I am going to purchase a large CNC machine in the future, but for smaller systems, the CW beats the rest hands down! IMO

Jeff

[Fletcher]

I am going to purchase a large CNC machine in the future, but for smaller systems, the CW beats the rest hands down! IMO

Jeff

Can't say it better than that - that's why I have a cw now... :mrgreen:

[rcdages]

It really boils down to the target demographic of the CarveWright, which is primarily the home woodworker. The basic goal was to bring CNC capabilities to the average Joe at an affordable price, along with reasonably easy to learn/use software.

Occasionally, we see here on the forum that some folks want "big" CNC features, but at the same time, are sometimes a bit reluctant to pay for them. Overall, I believe the CarveWright system is hands-down the best CNC value available considering its features and price for the particular market it is designed for. Of course it is correct that we can't really compare "conventional" CNC machines to the CarveWright because there is nothing else quite like it.

Man, do I love my CarveWright machines! I too have the CNC "bug" and wouldn't be surprised if someday I get a "big" machine too, but I'm already happy and am able to accomplish pretty much anything I want to do so far!;)

Big "Diddo" to Michael & Al on their statements about the CW.

LHR gave us all a CNC that one can get in to at a good cost and easy learning curve in soft ware for the machine.

For me the CW is a Great Machine.

Robert
rcdages

[liquidguitars]

For grandpa to make something cool for the grand kids, fine. Not even LHR will tell you the CW is anything more then that.

I wish my Grandfather was around to see the 59 Les Paul I made with my CW's and 3D technology. He was a avid guitar player, I still own his old New York pre 1888 Martin acoustic.

Regarding a better CNC yea .8" deep is hard to work around some days..

http://liquidguitars.com/assets/images/LPSPLTR001.jpg

[Ike]

It really boils down to the target demographic of the CarveWright, which is primarily the home woodworker. The basic goal was to bring CNC capabilities to the average Joe at an affordable price, along with reasonably easy to learn/use software.

Occasionally, we see here on the forum that some folks want "big" CNC features, but at the same time, are sometimes a bit reluctant to pay for them. Overall, I believe the CarveWright system is hands-down the best CNC value available considering its features and price for the particular market it is designed for. Of course it is correct that we can't really compare "conventional" CNC machines to the CarveWright because there is nothing else quite like it.

Man, do I love my CarveWright machines! I too have the CNC "bug" and wouldn't be surprised if someday I get a "big" machine too, but I'm already happy and am able to accomplish pretty much anything I want to do so far!;)

How about this one, I had a full size 4 foot by eight foot Shopbot bought and paid for. Plus I have a K2 CNC a 14" by 25" smaller CNC also bought and paid for and at that time I bought one the first CC when they came out for the public.

Well I used the CC and the designer and loved it! I started to assemble the SB and made it as far as the table. I was missing some bolts and had to wait for SB to send them. In the mean time I was busy with the fair season with my sign shop and continued to use my CC.

The end of the season I bought the K2 and found the soda wagon and wanted it! The SB just sat and my $9800.00 investment plus another $1500.00 in software was not being used. This now was a year later and I put it in the SB forum for sell for $10,000. SB raised the price to $13,000 and I sold it quick! Bought my soda wagon and now we are doing both signs and soda!

Back to the K2 it has been over 2 years ago and I have never used it! I have tried to sell it, but no sale!

So I think I am like Michael and Al I have the CW bug! The CW does everything I want! Plus as LHR grows they offer new software like centerline. SB software only offered limited centerline. Now Stl and Dfx and I know some think it is expensive, but it really is not!

My K2 was $3600.00 and the software another $500.00 for this machine and limited. The CW $1699.00 centerline $100.00 pattern editor with probe $299.99 K2 no probe, SB has a probe for about $400.00. And really I bought the pattern editor and was given a probe. So I a little over $2000.00 for my CW and have everything I need!

Ike

[lawrence]

All I can say is that you folks sure get defensive quick 'round here... on both sides :rolleyes:

That in and of itself says something about this machine-- it ignites a great passion from people. To me this is one of its greatest acheivements ... along with liquid's guitars

I've seen some of the most beautiful ironwood sculptures in the world come off a 7 inch sawblade mounted to a motor shaft... I've also seen men with tens of thousands of dollars in lie nielsen planes, powermatic tablesaws, and starrett squares make crooked birdhouses with leaky roofs...

I believe this tool to be much like any other...a tool... and I believe the old addage that a good carpenter never blames his tools and add on my belief that grand craftsmanship does not credit the tool either.

Just my .02
Lawrence

[jaroot]

...

I believe this tool to be much like any other...a tool... and I believe the old addage that a good carpenter never blames his tools and add on my belief that grand craftsmanship does not credit the tool either.

Just my .02
Lawrence

I'm a fantastic carver... using my CW :D

[JDPratt]

When I started the thread it was never intended to be a CW vs. "other" CNC machines. I don't think you can compare other CNC machines to the CW. It is Apples to Asparagus. The CW has a place in my shop and the ability to things that other CNCs cannot. As much as we complain about the sofware, it is easier to learn than some other software systems for CNC machines (especially for those of us who are computer challenged). However, there are things that the CW cannot do that would really be a nice addition to the shop. Yes the others have a higher initial cost, but I (and I would bet others) have spent well above the the initial cost of the CW on repairs, bits, modifications, and lost wood. I am not advocating one over the other, I am simply saying that both have their place and it might be nice to have both. Each for their unique capabilities. I have several routers in my shop. They basically do the same thing, but each has benefits and drawbacks for specific jobs.

John

[Metalhead781]

All I can say is that you folks sure get defensive quick 'round here... on both sides :rolleyes:

That in and of itself says something about this machine-- it ignites a great passion from people. To me this is one of its greatest acheivements ... along with liquid's guitars

I've seen some of the most beautiful ironwood sculptures in the world come off a 7 inch sawblade mounted to a motor shaft... I've also seen men with tens of thousands of dollars in lie nielsen planes, powermatic tablesaws, and starrett squares make crooked birdhouses with leaky roofs...

I believe this tool to be much like any other...a tool... and I believe the old addage that a good carpenter never blames his tools and add on my belief that grand craftsmanship does not credit the tool either.

Just my .02
Lawrence

The CW isn't a tool it's just a toy to play with. I would trade ten CW's for a real cnc machine. I purchased mine hoping it would be at least a decent tool and it's not. It's just a toy. Yes you can do a lot of amazing things with this toy and when everythings going right most of us are happy with it. I just would never trade a real machine for a toy.

MH

[mtylerfl]

When I started the thread it was never intended to be a CW vs. "other" CNC machines. I don't think you can compare other CNC machines to the CW. It is Apples to Asparagus. The CW has a place in my shop and the ability to things that other CNCs cannot. As much as we complain about the sofware, it is easier to learn than some other software systems for CNC machines (especially for those of us who are computer challenged). However, there are things that the CW cannot do that would really be a nice addition to the shop. Yes the others have a higher initial cost, but I (and I would bet others) have spent well above the the initial cost of the CW on repairs, bits, modifications, and lost wood. I am not advocating one over the other, I am simply saying that both have their place and it might be nice to have both. Each for their unique capabilities. I have several routers in my shop. They basically do the same thing, but each has benefits and drawbacks for specific jobs.

John

Well said, John. The only thing I might take issue with is I don't think that many folks "have spent well above the the initial cost of the CW on repairs, bits, modifications, and lost wood". I believe that is a small minority. (That certainly has not been my personal experience, but I'll take your word for it that it has been yours.)

[JMD]

JDPratt
I can not find anything about the Tyros on the ShopBot page. Ware can I find moer info about this. Am VERY interested in this.
John

[liquidguitars]

The CW isn't a tool it's just a toy to play with. I would trade ten CW's for a real cnc machine. I purchased mine hoping it would be at least a decent tool and it's not. It's just a toy. Yes you can do a lot of amazing things with this toy and when everything going right most of us are happy with it. I just would never trade a real machine for a toy.

MH

My tools are realy only toys? wow thanks for letting us know, junk because we own a carvwrignt? the software we use is not as good as the big boys?
what a ^%$# joke. I guess my Rockwell shaper is just a toy along with my Unisaw 2..

I used to make my guitar tops with a 8" grinder in the hot sun, not so much fun.

I like to invite you back to the forum when you get your real CNC and show us what you make with it. A paint brush is just a paint brush.

In the mean time lets see you do this with Aspire and Bobcam.. :)

http://www.liquidviolins.com/assets/images/ElectricViolin5BBR003.jpg

LG

[JDPratt]

JDPratt
I can not find anything about the Tyros on the ShopBot page. Ware can I find moer info about this. Am VERY interested in this.
John

I don't know anything about the Shopbot Tyros. I just saw the new Stinger from Camaster at StingerCNC.com

I don't agree that the CW is a toy, but it can be frustrating to some, myself included. For those of us with little or no CNC experience it can be daunting without trial and error. I can run and use effectively almost any standard woodworking tool or machine because I have that background. CNC, Lasers, Plasma, etc. are specialized tools that fit a fairly specialized section of the woodworking or metal working community. If you have a background in these areas, then operation is easier or at least you have something to compare. I know laser operators who don't know the difference between a Starrett and a Stanley straight edge, or a Lie Nielsen and a Buck Brothers plane because they don't have a background in it. Each Tool fits a need and is dependant on the craftsmans need or pocketbook. If I had extensive background in CNC machines and the money, I probably wouldn't get a CW. But given what it can do (even considering it limits), it fits the need I have in the shop. Would I like a bigger machine, yes. If I get some training in the sofware, it may be the way to go. I have a Miller plasma cutter that I do some work with also; it fits the need I have. I would love to get a CNC plasma like the Torchmate, but experience and money preclude that. I am also sure there are people who own a Torchmate that will tell me that my Miller Spectrum 625 is a toy and just junk. Just my .02

As far as the comment of initial cost I wasn't refering to the sofware. I think LHR has done an outstanding job with issuing updates (for free) with the software (with some minor bugs). I wasn't trying to make a dig at the initial cost or software, it was more related to hardware costs and repairs. I will agree that the majority of these are end-user inflicted. I was merely trying to say that $2K for a Cw + several hundred for repairs (including shipping) brings you pretty close to a Stinger or other CNC if you are so inclined. Because I don't have a background in CNC, I don't know what their durability or repair record is, you would have to ask Ike or someone who uses these larger machines on a regluar basis. Regardless, I would like to have both. There is no such thing as too many tools.

[Ike]

When I started the thread it was never intended to be a CW vs. "other" CNC machines. I don't think you can compare other CNC machines to the CW. It is Apples to Asparagus. The CW has a place in my shop and the ability to things that other CNCs cannot. As much as we complain about the sofware, it is easier to learn than some other software systems for CNC machines (especially for those of us who are computer challenged). However, there are things that the CW cannot do that would really be a nice addition to the shop. Yes the others have a higher initial cost, but I (and I would bet others) have spent well above the the initial cost of the CW on repairs, bits, modifications, and lost wood. I am not advocating one over the other, I am simply saying that both have their place and it might be nice to have both. Each for their unique capabilities. I have several routers in my shop. They basically do the same thing, but each has benefits and drawbacks for specific jobs.

John

MH you know that said, you would like a " real CNC" and I must disagree the CW is not a toy to me it has paid for itself several times!( Well only if my wife uses the money I make from it to pay for it!) John I know this is not your words.

Like I said I have a conventional CNC now and sold my bigger SB. Yes the CW has limits as does my K2 CNC, but the big picture is this! To get the results you want it means you need money! Basic software like I have is good for signs. I have V Carve Pro and Corel, also V Carve photo the 3 cost a little over $1000.00. The I bought Bobcad at $750.00 and let it go with the SB when I sold it. The cost of the SB was $9800.00 including shipping. Now it is around $13,000. A great machine,but the software is limits you.

There is Artcam at $8000.00 and up. Really depends on what you want the machine to do? I need mine for signs so the Shop 48 x 96 was going to be for commercial signs and my K2 25" by 14" table for residential on the road. But I bought the CW too and I learned the software first and it was great.

I went to a SB convention and the time to make the same project using the CW designer verses the SB software was no comparison! With the SB you need to set all depths etc. The designer sets it for you, I know it would be nice to set some features, but the SB will not convert measurements!

John you say the initial cost is more? The thing that cost continues to grow as mentioned software better and newer! Then when you go to buy one the machine is one price and all the little accessories start adding up. With the CW it is all there with the exception of a few things that have been added.

John I agree a bigger CNC or different is nice and sometimes I wish I never sold my SB like I said before it was bought and paid for! But life has a way of changing! I still have the K2 I bought it for $3,637.95 plus the $1000.00 in software 2 years ago and it has never been used! Oh plus the need to buy a router and a DC! So like any tool you continue to buy items! Well not if you don't use them! ;)

We defend our CW and no not a toy! That is like saying a bench table saw is a toy because it is small. Still a table saw, still need to use the same caution as a cabinet saw!

Again it isn't a bad thing to have a bigger CNC anymore then having a cabinet saw and a bench table saw! All my tools have purpose for me!

Well that's my 2 cents plus a nickel!

Ike

[myshop1044]

I found this verision sold by Rockler. The board does not move, there seems not problem with dust build up. It uses a standard router and bits. Some what pricey and videos are impressive on he 3 D carving on just about any material.
It's call

CNC Shark Pro Routing System
it could be a table type model.
Right now I'm sticking with CW.

Myshop1044

[spalted]

I looked at a lot of small cnc machines before I bought my carvewright.

I went with the CW for a few reasons.

Price was a big reason.

Size, even if I had the money it would be A tight fit to squeeze a big cnc in my shop.

I strongly considered the shark, but the forums and the community help here at CW was a huge factor in my decision.

I have had some issues with my CW, but I think any CNC is going to have issues. They are a little more finicky than a hammer and a saw.

with all the people here willing to help out and offer advise, and LHR tech support it hasn't been too bad. I didn't see that possibility with the shark or many other small cnc machines.

[mostlycold]

But I did want to extend my thanx to LG for those (yet again) amazing instruments you make. Man, you just totally blow me away with your artistic capability! I believe you could carve something with a dull pocket knife that would look better than my best project. I truely have brainwave envy.

Thanx for sharing,
Dan

[Digitalwoodshop]

Like a guy walking into a sports bar with a shirt on for the other team just looking for Attention.

This is a fantastic Hobby Grade Machine.

Want a Industrial Machine don't be so Cheap and buy one.

Here is one that my Neighbor operates..... Only a 10 head unit.... And his industrial 4th axis machine.

Chris, Guy Mathew, and AL(with hat) from last year's visit. Last 2 pictures are the 4th axis unit. There is a Shop Bot next to the 4th Axis Machine too.

A update on my Neighbor Guy.... Had to quit due to his allergic reaction to the find dust of the finishing dept. Will still consult on weekends.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=1421204#poststop


AL

[PCW]

That is some impressive machinery at New Wave and too bad about Guy’s allergies.

I guess you have to do what is best for your health no matter what it take.

[CarverJerry]

Sorry to hear about your neighbor. At least he had a job to go to. That place looks cool but then again it's a high production shop...boring after a while. Hope he gets well.

CJ

[lawrence]

The CW isn't a tool it's just a toy to play with. I would trade ten CW's for a real cnc machine. I purchased mine hoping it would be at least a decent tool and it's not. It's just a toy. Yes you can do a lot of amazing things with this toy and when everythings going right most of us are happy with it. I just would never trade a real machine for a toy.

MH

Sorry... I'm not going to feed the troll...

Lawrence

[Digitalwoodshop]

Sorry... I'm not going to feed the troll...

Lawrence

I couldn't resist.... Your a better MAN than I..... :mrgreen:

AL

[bjbethke]

Legacy's prototype Personal CNC

I have been thinking of up dating my manual Legacy mill when this mill comes out, it would cost more than my CW unit did. But it would have lots more functions.


http://www.legacycncwoodworking.com/arty-cnc/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20_fsxNBZ-s&feature=player_embedded


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20_fsxNBZ-s&feature=player_embedded


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBcAT0ZzNVc&feature=related

[spalted]

I wouldn't mind having any one of the Legacy mills.

"I want that, can I have that?......... please, please pleeeeeeese..I'll be good" ...... jeez, I'm worse than the kids.......lol

[JDPratt]

Wow, I guess I opened a can of worms with this thread which was not my intention. Sorry, to those who had to suffer through.

[Icutone2]

New info is always a plus.
Lee

[mtylerfl]

Wow, I guess I opened a can of worms with this thread which was not my intention. Sorry, to those who had to suffer through.

It is always interesting to read other folks' points of view. Good discussion and very enlightening.

[Ike]

Wow, I guess I opened a can of worms with this thread which was not my intention. Sorry, to those who had to suffer through.

I don't think you opened a can of worms! I hope I didn't fuel the fire I often have trouble say what I want to say, words get in the way! All I was trying to say was unless you have a need not to mention the money for a bigger CNC. The CW is a great machine and value including the software.

I am not an expert, but I have experience! I had the big machine and yes maybe it is due to being lazy for never using the SB? But as I waited for the missing bolts I used the CW more and learned the ins and outs and decided this was all I needed!

I have a small sign shop mainly I go to fairs and make the signs on the spot. I planned to grow at home, but as we all have experienced the economy took a dive! So I tried the soda business, not sure if that was the right choice!?

For the money the CW is a great value including the software and accessories. It has it ups and downs, but read some SB forum or a CNC forum and you will find issues with K2 CNC, SB and others!

LG has shown us all what the machine can really do and looking through the gallery many more amazing things!

So if anybody has the cash for a bigger CNC I would look at the SB Buddy and get the 48" wide model. It allows you to make 8 foot signs and still remain compact. It came out after I bought my 48" by 96" CNC otherwise I would have bought the Buddy and most likely still have it! They offer 2 models a standard and an alpha. I had an alpha and it is more in cost so you can get a 48' Buddy standard for $8795.00 or an alpha for $12345.00 and it comes with limited software, but for another $1000.00 to $8000.00 you will be set!

Myself I would stay away from the Shark, that is why I bought the K2. Looking back I wish I went with the bigger table, but that was more in cost and I already spent $3600.00 for the CNC and close to $2000.00 for software.

I just wanted to share what I have been through and I use the CW over any other CNC. That is just me, I had big plans for my big CNC and found out it was more a foolish desire then anything. Guess the grass is greener on the other side!

Ike

[twinpeaksenterprises, LLC]

The CW isn't a tool it's just a toy to play with. I would trade ten CW's for a real cnc machine. I purchased mine hoping it would be at least a decent tool and it's not. It's just a toy. Yes you can do a lot of amazing things with this toy and when everythings going right most of us are happy with it. I just would never trade a real machine for a toy.

MH

Its actually a very versatile machine and can be used on alot of applications. For the price of the machine, it is great! You cant even barely touch some of the upper level "CNC softwares" for the price of the machine and from my experience the Carvewright Designer is a great CNC program. I am very happy with my machine and have used it to create revenue and open other doors to my woodworking business.

[Metalhead781]

I understand all of your points but from a real world perspective it is just a toy. There are a lot of people that could never touch any kind of cnc if it wasn't for the CW. Yes you can make money with it but it's too limited and the quality isn't up to my standards. There are certain aspects of the software that other programs don't have but it doesn't do them very well at all, again to my standards. As i said, i bought one to show the powers that be what i could do with a CNC router, sometimes i'm just embarrassed that the quality just isn't there. I find myself explaining to someone that this will be better with another machine when they don't even see the issues i do. Now to LG if i had interest in making guitars etc i would look into the $175 software that can do what you do but there's no need. On top of everything, i just think of business i would turn away if i went public with the CW as my main machine. The reliability just isn't there and neither is the capacity.

MH

[c6craig]

Toy or tool, it doesn't really matter what we call it. I for one am glad they are available, even with the frustrations they sometimes cause.

I am a non business hobbiest, which is the market this machine is targeted to. I don't think LHR has ever made any dispute about that. There are plenty of us that own 2 or 3 (or more) machines that could easily have gone with another CNC solution. Money isn't always the issue. I have limited time to spend on my hobby, and prefer not to have to learn the software that powers those large CNC's.

Bottom line I guess, it's a buyers market and you show your support with your dollars. Plenty of people have decided this is not the machine for them and sold them right here on the forum.

I hope nobody takes offense, as I mean none to anyone.

Everyone enjoy your machine, regardless of which one it is. I will stick with my CW.

Happy Carving,
Craig

[CarverJerry]

I've worked in machine shops for over 30 years. Ran cnc mills, lathes. If it is a machine it will brake down sooner or later. I don't like running large cnc machines in the shops but I love my Carvewright and Rock chuck. Just my 2 cents for the night.

CJ

[liquidguitars]

i just think of business i would turn away if i went public with the CW as my main machine. The reliability just isn't there and neither is the capacity.

I think if you need more capacity you would never buy a smaller tool right? case in point my 14" bandsaw bearing and casting OD went south and i needed to replace it
only prob it was a 1200.00 saw, since it was a Delta i ordered the smaller 500.00 unit to use the bottom casting, before gutting it i gave it a try it was way under powered for what i needed.

Most of my fellow smaller shop guitar builders probably feel the same as you and most of them are using hand routers and plexiglas jigs thats fine but a lot of work in my book not to mention the jigs get trashed quickly. Some even get giggly with duplicating routers with a bicycle hand brake to slow it down, talk about a odd way to build a Les Paul top.

I feel no need to tell them as you can't teach a old dog new tricks. I imagine in a year or two some of them will say WTF was i thinking and that's called progress in the arts.




Here is a duplicate carver that i never intend to own. :)

http://img.youtube.com/vi/o7OH-Q2Vl6Y/0.jpg

[Jeff_Birt]

i bought one to show the powers that be what i could do with a CNC router, sometimes i'm just embarrassed that the quality just isn't there.

The quality output by any machine is directly proportional to the quality of input (i.e. operators skill and quality of input file.) We can look at all the great stuff LG, MT and others produce to prove the point.

The CW is a great machine for its intended purpose, while it does not have the absolute accuracy of my CNC mill, it offers a much larger working area and the software is much easier to use. My point is that there is not one perfect machine for all purposes.

[Ike]

I understand all of your points but from a real world perspective it is just a toy. There are a lot of people that could never touch any kind of cnc if it wasn't for the CW. Yes you can make money with it but it's too limited and the quality isn't up to my standards. There are certain aspects of the software that other programs don't have but it doesn't do them very well at all, again to my standards. As i said, i bought one to show the powers that be what i could do with a CNC router, sometimes i'm just embarrassed that the quality just isn't there. I find myself explaining to someone that this will be better with another machine when they don't even see the issues i do. Now to LG if i had interest in making guitars etc i would look into the $175 software that can do what you do but there's no need. On top of everything, i just think of business i would turn away if i went public with the CW as my main machine. The reliability just isn't there and neither is the capacity.

MH

MH I too know the CW has not received the respect or title of CNC. I know I am a crazy one for selling my new never used PS Alpha 4896! It really wasn't just having the CW! I got tired of going to shows to have people holding a beer with 3 or 4 empty cups in one hand and a corn dog in another and tell me my sign 6" by 24" finished for $36.00 was too much money! Or the most famous one I have a router and I can make that!

So we bought a chuck wagon that lost a wheel 4 times to sell old fashioned soda! Now they tell us $6.00 for 32 oz novelty tin mug of soda is too much! Of course holding a $6.00 12oz beer! Or they don't want to carry the mug around all 4-6 oz of it! We added paper cups and solved that!

Like I said I still have my K2 smaller CNC and it is new and never used. I hope to mess with it one day or sell it! The CW has been the ticket for signs though and I have not seen anything that I would be embarrassed about. I have had some chip out on small raised lettering that was my fault in design.

Could you share what is not to your standards? I know what you mean being embarrassed, but with my hand routed signs. I am in the groove sometimes and then sometimes I am not and will make a new sign because I just don't like how it turned out! My wife tells me it is fine and I never tell the customer I can do better!

I guess we can look at the CW as the gateway CNC! It makes us want bigger and fancier machines! I am happy with mine with the size and it does what I need it to do!

I completely understand your point of view and it is your right to share! I hope your CW will do some projects to your liking! If not like I said the SB Buddy is pretty cool and I wish it was available when I bought mine. I would still have it! My choice is the 48" wide model and with the sliding table they copied CW's belt system. It can make an eight foot sign and when you are done it becomes compact!

I wish you the best of luck in your search!

Ike

[Nighthawk12]

I understand all of your points but from a real world perspective it is just a toy. There are a lot of people that could never touch any kind of cnc if it wasn't for the CW. Yes you can make money with it but it's too limited and the quality isn't up to my standards. There are certain aspects of the software that other programs don't have but it doesn't do them very well at all, again to my standards. As i said, i bought one to show the powers that be what i could do with a CNC router, sometimes i'm just embarrassed that the quality just isn't there. I find myself explaining to someone that this will be better with another machine when they don't even see the issues i do. Now to LG if i had interest in making guitars etc i would look into the $175 software that can do what you do but there's no need. On top of everything, i just think of business i would turn away if i went public with the CW as my main machine. The reliability just isn't there and neither is the capacity.

MH



I've had my CC for 3 years from the very first carve I was amased at the quality of the carve this little machine was capable of. Being I am a electrican & work on machines all the time that cost a lot more than what a Carvewright will cost you I knew there would be maintenance to do to keep it running. I have learned a lot from reading this forum there are a lot of great people here that will help all you need to do is ask. I can't speak for your machine but mine just keeps getting better with the updates and learning from this fourm after every carve I just say WOW. AND MY CC IS NOT A TOY! But I like better than any toys I've ever had.

Jim

[Digitalwoodshop]

MH,

I looked back over your 123 posts and I really don't see anything of value posted to the forum. It's all a bunch of "This is Junk" over and over.

We get you are disappointed, we get it.... 123 times.

Sell your machine and find a new dog to kick. When you buy that Industrial Machine with the powers to be, and learn the Software, come back and show us what you have made. We would be happy to see what you have done. Using the CW as a Stepping Stone into the Big World Of Industrial CNC's. We all need to start somewhere...

It's like you are a parent yelling at a little league team 123 times, because you want to be in the Major League but don't have the ability.

In other websites they call what you do posting negative all the time being a TROLL.

And it looks like we are Neighbors too...

AL:mrgreen:

[JDPratt]

Al - I love the new avatar.

[skeeterman]

I was looking for a bigger machine a year or so ago i had a few things that were selling at the time and i wanted to mass produce or at least make more than one at a time, I did a lot of studying and question asking before i was willing to lay $8000 or more on a bigger machine. My answers came from members of sawmillcreek forum which they most all agree that the carvewright is to small and more as a toy than the real deal. but the answer i got on carving 3-D patterns led me to buying more carvewright/compucarve machines. The bigger cnc do not carve any faster in 3-d than the carvewrights and if your larger more expensive machine goes down then you are down , I now have 4 carvewrights/ compucarves in my shop 3 are running and one is for parts as of now so if one goes down i still have two running and am not down and not producing . I only wish i could i could produce Vector carves easily on my machines with designer
I love my compucarves/ carvewrights they have helped me get into a market that i would probably would never have tried before getting them
sorry this was so long but i wanted to throw out some of my feelings about my machines.
steve

[Digitalwoodshop]

Al - I love the new avatar.

I have KenM810 to thank for it.... Masking Tape and everything....

LOL....:mrgreen:

AL

The Joy of cutting Glow in the Dark tags.

[Metalhead781]

MH,

I looked back over your 123 posts and I really don't see anything of value posted to the forum. It's all a bunch of "This is Junk" over and over.

We get you are disappointed, we get it.... 123 times.

Sell your machine and find a new dog to kick. When you buy that Industrial Machine with the powers to be, and learn the Software, come back and show us what you have made. We would be happy to see what you have done. Using the CW as a Stepping Stone into the Big World Of Industrial CNC's. We all need to start somewhere...

It's like you are a parent yelling at a little league team 123 times, because you want to be in the Major League but don't have the ability.

In other websites they call what you do posting negative all the time being a TROLL.

And it looks like we are Neighbors too...

AL:mrgreen:

I can honestly say i'm not easy to get along with. I get through to poconos quite a bit but i won't say neighbors. Grand scheme of things yes but i'm not very grand. My only issue is someone trying to tell me that i have all the machine i need and yes much respect to those making a business out of the CW. With the advancements in software and machines over the passed five years in my opinion this is not the machine for me. I know this and all of you know this. I have not abused my machine and Al, i'll give you first crack at it when it is up for sale with the rock and sleeves. It's a choice professionally what you want to use. I just keep running into little issues and we all know the first one is cutting. The next major issue is quality which goes hand in had with speed. I can spend $7000 on a machine that can machine a 3d raster image just like the cw at over 200 ipm. That machine is out of my reach and really doesn't serve my purpose. The only speed control you have is quality settings. The faster the machine carves the worse it gets. The software is ok in general and great for the novice but there are just so many simple things that this machine doesn't do well including pocketing and general milling. It's slow and you have to trick the machine to do it accurately. Splitting a fourth decimal place because the machine and software really can't do better is telling me a lot. Centerline text is great on certain fonts. It doesn't like others some are just a joke. I've seen the results of other software on even cheaper, smaller machines do a better job with cleaner lines v carving clipart off windows. Yes, again this machine does some amazing things but productivity is completely out the window unless u have multiple machines running most of the time. I'm not alone in the negativity. If i only had a choice to put my cw aside soon after i purchased it i would have but i'm stuck and my frustration shows through. I honestly wish this machine was better, even for a little more money. An extra $500 for a rack and pinion y axis rather then belts a z mounted router motor and a little heavier frame. Get rid of a lot of the attempt to control the user along with the ability to use alternative software. Then it would probably make me a happier camper.

MH