PDA

View Full Version : Just About Over It....RANT



c6craig
04-26-2010, 09:56 PM
OK - As most of you know, I don't rant often. But here it goes.

In the last 2 days I have ruined $100 in cherry and curly cherry as well as a $40 cutting bit. Not to mention aproximately 17 carving hours. As well as the projects that am I not getting done.

If anyone has an idea why these problems might be happening, I am all ears. These problems have occurred on 2 machines, but mostly on one. All problems are with projects I have run before with no issues, before upgrading to 1.163 with a new computer.

My last shot pending any ideas here is to take my laptop that still has 1.153 and try to run one last project. Failing that, there will be 3 machines and all the trimmings up here for sale. I am not going to fight this machine no matter how cool the stuff it can do. I got into this as a stress reliever, not a stress adder.

PIC 1 - Round Box project, everything went fine except the lid, as you can see from the pic it decided to go off course and ruin the lid. All other circle paths went fine including the rings.

PIC 2 - Round Box project again, rings and base cut correctly. Lid as you can see is cut wrong on the other side this time. Also in this project..see pic 3

PIC 3 - Round Box project, bit was cutting and drilling to proper depth, set as max pass of .200 but was still burning. I checked the bit for pitch build up and it was clean and shiny. Checked for dullness, skinned a thumbnail fine and the bit has only been used once before for a small cutout in pine. Garage now reeks of burnt cherry and bit is ruined.

PIC 4 - MT Shamrock Plaque, whole project carved fine on optimal for 6 hours then when it went to cut it out the bit dropped down to cut in the wrong place, went back up and dropped again right next to it and sat there until I aborted the project.

PIC 5 - Centerline text on large plaque, for some reason decided to add a line to one of the "M"s. All other letters including other M's carved fine both before and after the error, eliminating in my mind a tracking or bit slippage issue.

Any ideas / thoughts / open laughter? :mad:

Thanks,
Craig

b.sumner47
04-26-2010, 10:56 PM
It looks as if your patterns are not squared front and back, also check centering. Capt Barry

c6craig
04-26-2010, 11:44 PM
It looks as if your patterns are not squared front and back, also check centering. Capt Barry

Just double checked the pattern for the round box, both front and back of lid are "centered both". Since it is more than just the round box, I suspect something other than pattern trouble, but thanks for the thought and reply.

Craig

liquidguitars
04-27-2010, 01:51 AM
Craig,

after you load the wood lift up on the end of the board a few times, can you feel the spring of the roller compress up and down?

TerryT
04-27-2010, 08:38 AM
Probably way off, but.... make sure the ends of the board are square. Looks like it may be getting a different measurement when you flip the board.

c6craig
04-27-2010, 11:06 AM
Craig,

after you load the wood lift up on the end of the board a few times, can you feel the spring of the roller compress up and down?

LG,

I load a board and the rollers are compressed. I tried to lift on the board end and there really isnt any give that I can notice. I did check the roller sensors and they show compressed when they should and not when they shouldn't.

Thanks for the idea.

Craig

c6craig
04-27-2010, 11:08 AM
Probably way off, but.... make sure the ends of the board are square. Looks like it may be getting a different measurement when you flip the board.

Thanks Terry,

I checked all the problem boards and they are all square. I thought you may be on to something there, but it doesn't make sense that it just seems to be certain areas screwing up. If it was a board flip mismeasure, all my rings should be off too.

Thanks for the idea though.

Craig

c6craig
04-27-2010, 11:13 AM
Going to try a back to basics approach here...

Spent a while this morning cleaning and lubing everything on the machine. Not a speck of dust to be seen. Checked head pressure, Z truck movement on both axis, alignment, sliding plate, O ring, etc.

Have a brand new cutting and carving bit in hand, set screws on adapters checked.

I have gotten out my laptop and loaded up the 1.153 version, used my spare flash card to match the firmware, formatted the card, and uploaded the project.

Have a perfectly flat and square board (black walnut, I am out of scrap unfortunately) with 3 runs of masking tape for the tracking roller.

Will give it a try and see what happens.....

Thanks,
Craig

Router-Jim
04-27-2010, 11:17 AM
Use the measure function and see if the machine repeats the same measurements on each side of your board. It may be time to go thru the calibration procedure if it doesn't repeat.

c6craig
04-27-2010, 11:22 AM
Use the measure function and see if the machine repeats the same measurements on each side of your board. It may be time to go thru the calibration procedure if it doesn't repeat.

Good thought, thanks, I will check that before starting the project.

Craig

Digitalwoodshop
04-27-2010, 12:09 PM
The first 2 pictures show to me that the board and computer are loosing sinc.. So it is going to be in the Y or X Direction. The Y Direction is possible but not likely. Looks like when the board was moving in the X Direction it did not move far enough or moved too far.... Moving too far is more than likely... Yes you applied the tape to the brass roller position....
Humor me and apply 3 additional strips of tape to the bottom of the board. To the field of the board to give the sand paper belts something to bite into and hold the board better. Could have been the sand paper belts slipping under the board due to the hard wood.


As for the retrace over the V Carved Text.

Either the wood came out from under a roller and came up to meet a moving bit.

Or the Z did not back up high enough due to chips in the belt or rails.

Or the Z encoder has dust in it.

Or check head level.

AL

c6craig
04-27-2010, 12:17 PM
The first 2 pictures show to me that the board and computer are loosing sinc.. So it is going to be in the Y or X Direction. The Y Direction is possible but not likely. Looks like when the board was moving in the X Direction it did not move far enough or moved too far.... Moving too far is more than likely... Yes you applied the tape to the brass roller position....
Humor me and apply 3 additional strips of tape to the bottom of the board. To the field of the board to give the sand paper belts something to bite into and hold the board better. Could have been the sand paper belts slipping under the board due to the hard wood.


As for the retrace over the V Carved Text.

Either the wood came out from under a roller and came up to meet a moving bit.

Or the Z did not back up high enough due to chips in the belt or rails.

Or the Z encoder has dust in it.

Or check head level.

AL

Thanks AL, all good sugestions. Here is what I have:

I am not using sandpaper belts, these are the rubber traction belts. I dont know if more tape on the bottom of the board will help, I never had to before.

As for the retrace on the centerline. The board was under rollers at all times, this text was dead center in the board, with a good 6" sticking out of the machine on both sides. I will check the rest of the items after I finish the test carve that's running now.

Thanks for your advice, I really do appreciate it, it's been a long time since I was frustrated to this point with my machines :)

Craig

mtylerfl
04-27-2010, 12:23 PM
Craig - dang! I'm very, very sorry you're having such bad luck! Besides the suggestions already offered, may I ask if the board dimensions are "as specified"? Just thinking a dimension variation might throw off the alignment of the two sides (possibly??maybe?? - I don't know). Perhaps the re-cal is the key. PLEASE DO let us know the results after the calibration, etc.

That centerline 'M' line problem and the cutout problem is a bit of a mystery on your Shamrock project. I may have to carve another just to see for myself if I get that 'M line' and if I get any similar cutout issue using the 1.163 version.

I am sincerely hoping your next report will be a good one!

c6craig
04-27-2010, 12:33 PM
Craig - dang! I'm very, very sorry you're having such bad luck! Besides the suggestions already offered, may I ask if the board dimensions are "as specified"? Just thinking a dimension variation might throw off the alignment of the two sides (possibly??maybe?? - I don't know). Perhaps the re-cal is the key. PLEASE DO let us know the results after the calibration, etc.

That centerline 'M' line problem and the cutout problem is a bit of a mystery on your Shamrock project. I may have to carve another just to see for myself if I get that 'M line' and if I get any similar cutout issue using the 1.163 version.

I am sincerely hoping your next report will be a good one!

Thanks MT!

Yes the board dimensions were actually a little over in both width and length. I added 4" to the ends for the rollers and about a 1/2 on the width. Chose keep original and center on board.

The Shamrock and centerline are a mystery, but they were on two different projects. The centerline M was on my Lucy memorial plaque, and the cutout issue was on the Shamrock. I'm sure it wasn't your pattern, nobody else is having any issues and I carved it once before just fine back on 1.153.

Running a round box test from 1.153 now so I should know something in a few hours. Before running this test I did a measure test flipping the board and they were within what I would consider tolerances. (Width 8.199, Length 26.434 - flip board and width 8.198, Length 26.407).

Thanks!
Craig

mtylerfl
04-27-2010, 12:57 PM
...
Running a round box test from 1.153 now so I should know something in a few hours. Before running this test I did a measure test flipping the board and they were within what I would consider tolerances. (Width 8.199, Length 26.434 - flip board and width 8.198, Length 26.407).

Thanks!
Craig

The board measurement certainly seems fine alright. I've got my fingers crossed!!

c6craig
04-27-2010, 10:25 PM
OK...so ALL I did was to go back to my old laptop and change back to 1.153 and ran the carve perfect. I even ran an extra set of rings as a seperate .mpc since I like my round boxes a little taller.

PIC 1 & 2 - same carve (different wood, black walnut instead of curly cherry since I am out) only from 1.153 instead of 1.163. No problems, smooth as silk.

PIC 3 - 1.163 run of Shamrock plaque.

PIC 4 & 5 - Some dremel and LOTS of hand sanding and it looks like I recovered the Shamrock. At least it looks pretty much like a circle to my naked eye. Figured I would put the test carve time to good use.

The centerline M problem I still hope to fix but won't be able to get to until Thursday now. I plan to try the glue and sawdust patch and then sand it down. Hopefully it works, it's a pretty big piece of nice wood.

SO NOW MY PROBLEM IS....if the only thing that changed is software version 1.163 back-revved to 1.153 and it ran the same .mpc with no issues, I have to assume the issue is 1.163. Which leaves me somewhat screwed since POM and a few others that I need to carve are in 1.163.....

I am relieved it does not seem to be my machine, but now what? I am afraid to put 1.163 projects through the machine for fear of more wasted wood and bits....any ideas??

Craig

CarverJerry
04-28-2010, 05:38 AM
Craig, I feel for ya man, I'm in the same boat and fear the problems you have had. Would love to buy the pom book stand but don't want to upgrade since there are problems with it still. Is there any way the author (Mtylerfl)can transfer thes files down to the 1.153 version and repost it? Just asking...
I have another question if the answer is no, If I have another card reader and memory card, use the upgrade on this spare set, can the machine run off both versions? Guess what I'm not sure is if the reader also gets upgraded along with the memory card and what does it do to the machine after running the new version. Hope this isn't too confusing to read as it is to write.

CarverJerry

c6craig
04-28-2010, 07:41 AM
Craig, I feel for ya man, I'm in the same boat and fear the problems you have had. Would love to buy the pom book stand but don't want to upgrade since there are problems with it still. Is there any way the author (Mtylerfl)can transfer thes files down to the 1.153 version and repost it? Just asking...
I have another question if the answer is no, If I have another card reader and memory card, use the upgrade on this spare set, can the machine run off both versions? Guess what I'm not sure is if the reader also gets upgraded along with the memory card and what does it do to the machine after running the new version. Hope this isn't too confusing to read as it is to write.

CarverJerry

Jerry,

You can do that, that's what I just did with my test. My shop PC has a reader attached to it and its own memory card on 1.163. I can load a project on it from there, stick it in the machine and it will eat my board.

My laptop has another reader attached to it and its own memory card on 1.153. I can load a project on that and stick it in the machine and it will run fine.

The CC/CW just boots off whatever version is on the card.

Craig

chebytrk
04-28-2010, 10:02 AM
Only thing is that I recall Mike saying that when he turns in a POM they automatically set it up to the latest software (in this case now 1.63).

c6craig
04-28-2010, 03:34 PM
So I guess the only option those of us having issues with 1.163 are left with is to go without the new POM's and patterns and hope whenever they release 1.164 the issues go away???

Craig

liquidguitars
04-28-2010, 04:10 PM
The results are not conclusive until we get at least one more user having the same issues and repeat it. Right now with the Mandolin I am using 1.163.
I do not expect to have a issue with any new patterns.. Changes to the splines have been made and this could be what called a backwards compatibility prob with 1.152.

LG

c6craig
04-28-2010, 04:15 PM
The results are not conclusive until we get at least one more user having the same issues and repeat it. Right now with the Mandolin I am using 1.163.
I do not expect to have a issue with any new patterns.. Changes to the splines have been made and this could be what called a backwards compatibility prob with 1.152.

LG

Fair enough....

So I guess the only option since I am having issues with 1.163 are left with is to go without the new POM's and patterns and hope whenever they release 1.164 the issues go away???

Sorry if I am being curt LG, this is more than a little frustrating.

Craig

mtylerfl
04-28-2010, 04:49 PM
Hi Craig,

Glad you got the project to come out ok - finally! I asked one of the Tech's about the problem you experienced. I also told him about your 'luck' apparently changing when you switched from the new 1.163 to the old 1.153 version.

As far as we can tell, it still gives every indication that a tracking problem occurred, and that it's not actually a firmware/software issue. I know that it may at first glance appear that reverting back to 1.153 'fixed' it, but the theory at least for now is, it was just coincidence that no tracking error occurred when you ran it again using the 1.153.

If/when I can find a crack of time for my machines between my other duties, I will try to run the Round Notions Box myself again, of course using 1.163 to see if I have any issues at all with it. Both my machines' calibration is spot on, and I have never experienced any tracking problems with either one, so it should be a fairly reliable test. If anything unusual happens - I'll post photos. If it goes perfectly - I'll post photos.

By the way - the free projects that came with the Tips & Tricks have not been modified/updated to any version of Designer beyond what they were originally created with. That's because the free projects do not go through the licensing encoding process. (Unfortunately, I don't always recall exactly what version I used to create some of those past projects!)

c6craig
04-28-2010, 09:24 PM
Hi Craig,

Glad you got the project to come out ok - finally! I asked one of the Tech's about the problem you experienced. I also told him about your 'luck' apparently changing when you switched from the new 1.163 to the old 1.153 version.

As far as we can tell, it still gives every indication that a tracking problem occurred, and that it's not actually a firmware/software issue. I know that it may at first glance appear that reverting back to 1.153 'fixed' it, but the theory at least for now is, it was just coincidence that no tracking error occurred when you ran it again using the 1.153.

If/when I can find a crack of time for my machines between my other duties, I will try to run the Round Notions Box myself again, of course using 1.163 to see if I have any issues at all with it. Both my machines' calibration is spot on, and I have never experienced any tracking problems with either one, so it should be a fairly reliable test. If anything unusual happens - I'll post photos. If it goes perfectly - I'll post photos.

By the way - the free projects that came with the Tips & Tricks have not been modified/updated to any version of Designer beyond what they were originally created with. That's because the free projects do not go through the licensing encoding process. (Unfortunately, I don't always recall exactly what version I used to create some of those past projects!)

MT,

Thanks for all you do. Don't worry about running the projects for me, I am sure it is only me. Nobody else appears to be complaining, and as LG states since it is only me it is not the software.

I am not an expert, it just made sense to me that when the only variable I could find was the software, that it be a software/firmware issue. When I have more time this weekend, and can go buy some cheap wood to test with I will run some more stuff in 1.163 to see if I have any luck.

Perhaps for some reason I need to recalibrate in 1.163. I don't know. I will give it my best to figure it out (within reason) before abandoning the CW. I hate to do it, but I'm not going to pour money down the drain in time and materials and stress levels.

I will post back with any results, good or bad, that I am able to produce.

Thanks again MT and to all that have offered helpful suggestions.

Craig

shotgun 6
05-25-2010, 12:43 PM
Craig -- It's me too. I ran three boxes for my wife and two daughters last Christmas using whatever version was current then (December 2009). I just ran three more,, two with 163 and one with 164 and the recessed ring on the bottom of the lid came out exactly as the one on this thread -- the bottom recessed area of the lid is off center. The last two I ran only the lid and double checked, front and back, the center --horizontal and vertical" of each object and the bottom came out the same as the others, offset by about 1/32." I've wound up routing the recess with my dremel so that the lids at least fit the box with sides smooth but they are all loose.Very frustrating -- could be a beautiful project. Bill

c6craig
05-25-2010, 10:35 PM
Let me know if you make any headway...I have just upgraded one of my machines to 1.164 and a CarveTight and plan to run another one this weekend so I am hoping for the best. A frustrating problem as these round "Notions and Sundries" boxes are ones of my favorites to make for gifts...

Good luck,
Craig