New Carve-Tight chuck released...

[gwizpro]

Well just got the email for the new Carve-Tight Chuck. Dang it sure looks familiar........

[bfcg]

rock chuck $109 ;)

[Cabinetdesigner]

well I have made up my mind to go with the rock chuck. I just put a new ztruck on my machine 2 months ago. that part does not bother me , what does bother me is I have 3 new cutting bits and 3 new carving bits that I would not be able to use with the new chuck. So I guess rock here I come!!!

[dustyshp]

Tried to download manual and look at software but can not get to either

[dbfletcher]

And we all know the rock chuck's are nearly perfectly balanced. I guess we will have to wat for MT to chime in and explain all the "benifits" over LHR or aftermarket chucks out there.

I's sticking with the rock unless there is some REAL benifit to this new chuck. I'd love to see a third party do a static and dynamic balance test on thest two chucks to see who the real winner is.

Doug Fletcher

[PCW]

Looks more like a Eliminator chuck to me. Needless to say looks like they got it right.

33181

[dbfletcher]

The $425 upgrade package doesnt seem like a bad deal however.. as long as the techs do a good job. I have no recent experience with their techs thought so I can only say went I sent my machine in way back in 2007, I was very dissappointed with the service. I would assume things have improved greatly over the years however.

Doug Fletcher

[pkunk]

I might suggest that you all go to the CW website and review the new chuck, download the April 2010 Tips & tricks and read what MichaelT has to say about it as a tester. I know he's never steered me wrong.:)

[liquidguitars]

I might suggest that you all go to the CW website and review the new chuck, download the April 2010 Tips & tricks and read what MichaelT has to say about it as a tester. I know he's never steered me wrong.:)


Before we get to the CarveTight, I’ll take
the liberty of saying a few words about the
existing Quick Chuck (the QC). The QC is
a good system when used properly, and is
a convenient method of bit mounting
which will continue to be supported. The
key is its proper use, meaning that the user
must verify that the bit is secure in the
adapter and that the assembly is fully
seated in the QC

Never? :mrgreen::)

Some interesting information about using sleeves and solid carbide in the "Tips and tricks" saying that carbide shanks and steel sleeves will tend to slip or work loose but the steel to steel shank ones not as much.

LG

[dbfletcher]

I might suggest that you all go to the CW website and review the new chuck, download the April 2010 Tips & tricks and read what MichaelT has to say about it as a tester. I know he's never steered me wrong.:)

Fair enuf... ok.. now i have just finished reading MT April tips and tricks. What I dont understand is he continues talking about better tolerances, less runout, etc... but these ARE MEASURABLE things.... that is what i want to see... give us a chart of number that show that this new chuck system is indeed better than anything out there. With out that... it is just opinion. And to be fair.. this should be done by a third party so it can be impartial and objective.

Doug Fletcher

[pkunk]

Well then.... go and find an impartial 3rd party. I doubt you find one. What is your problem with this? Do you doubt that an OEM engineer can produce a good product? I think you are stepping on thin ice here until you can prove without a doubt that this product does not have merit.:mad:

Fair enuf... ok.. now i have just finished reading MT April tips and tricks. What I dont understand is he continues talking about better tolerances, less runout, etc... but these ARE MEASURABLE things.... that is what i want to see... give us a chart of number that show that this new chuck system is indeed better than anything out there. With out that... it is just opinion. And to be fair.. this should be done by a third party so it can be impartial and objective.

Doug Fletcher

[jlovchik]

Fair enuf... ok.. now i have just finished reading MT April tips and tricks. What I dont understand is he continues talking about better tolerances, less runout, etc... but these ARE MEASURABLE things.... that is what i want to see... give us a chart of number that show that this new chuck system is indeed better than anything out there. With out that... it is just opinion. And to be fair.. this should be done by a third party so it can be impartial and objective.

Doug Fletcher

I agree Doug. We didn't publish numbers at this point because of that reason. We would love a third party to do just that. We have tested all the systems extensively, but publishing our results and conclusions would be just that "partial". We know what the results will be, and would love a third party to do the tests. The one piece design is key. It is the most solid solution possible.

[dbfletcher]

Well then.... go and find an impartial 3rd party. I doubt you find one. What is your problem with this? Do you doubt that an OEM engineer can produce a good product? I think you are stepping on thin ice here until you can prove without a doubt that this product has merit.:mad:

Really? And to this think all this time I so wrongly assumed organizations such as Consumer Reports where impartial. Would they be willing to test the three chucks?? I doubt it because i don't think there is enough consumer appeal to make i worth there while... but it is very naive to think there aren't places that do this exact type of testing. And if I was in LHR shoes why wouldn't I want to publish independent testing showing the in-house designed chuck is really superior. I'm not saying the new chuck isn't the best thing on the market... I'm just saying that MT comments are measurable. Why just make a comment when you can back it up with HARD repeatable scientific measurement.

I'm not saying anything negative about the new chuck or LHR... just asking for a little more than "its better cuz I say it better".

I cant say I understand why your taking offense as Im just asking for some proof.

Doug Fletcher

Edit: I see LHR also respnded while I was typing. I'm glad they are also looking for some demonstratable ways to show the superiority. If all other things are equal... I would agree a one-peice design should be superior... but from my experience with flying rc helicopters... the main shaft is one peice.. but depending on who manufacurtures it the run out on the shaft could be anywhere from less than .0001 to as much as .0015.

[jlovchik]

I should also say that LHR has never looked at the other chucks out there as a problem. We love that customers have chosen to create these solutions to help themselves and others enjoy their machine experience more. We applaud it and are encouraged by it. Bravo to all for their efforts.

[Fletcher]

LG is funny...

Just looking at it and how similar it looks to "unapproved" third party accessories, it looks like it would work VERY well... just like the "unapproved" one!

Given that it is one piece and most likely turned on an industrial cnc lathe, I can bet that the accuracy and runout are very good.

Good work LHR, doesn't hurt to follow a good lead. The QC could be a neat concept at maybe 5-10k rpm, but this is definitely the right piece for this machine.

[liquidguitars]

Fair enuf... ok.. now i have just finished reading MT April tips and tricks. What I don't understand is he continues talking about better tolerances, less runout, etc... but these ARE MEASURABLE things.... that is what i want to see... give us a chart of number that show that this new chuck system is indeed better than anything out there. With out that... it is just opinion. And to be fair.. this should be done by a third party so it can be impartial and objective.

Doug Fletcher

I would say that the tolerances will be right on the money.. I like the solid shaft in the spindel idea and the price of the spindle seems fair to me.

I also like how the STL software has been reduced, I think a lot of Cad Cam guys will use it now.

LG

[PCW]

Joe,

That says alot about a company. You guys Rock!!!:mrgreen:


I should also say that LHR has never looked at the other chucks out there as a problem. We love that customers have chosen to create these solutions to help themselves and others enjoy their machine experience more. We applaud it and are encouraged by it. Bravo to all for their efforts.

[pkunk]

Doug, It is your attitude. As far as having LHR find a 3rd party that would be stacking the cards, wouldn't it? As to Consumer Reports,
1. they wouldn't
2. if they did, I couldn't believe them as their reports have steered me wrong almost every time I've heeded them in the past 40 years.:)

[jlovchik]

I cant say I understand why your taking offense as just asking for some proof.

Doug Fletcher

Not sure why you thought I took offense Doug. Quite the opposite. I was agreeing with and encouraging your thoughts. I am not being defensive. I would like to see the tests done, and am looking for someone to do them. Maybe my confidence in the results were what made you think I was offended. I assure you that is not the case.

[AskBud]

See this link on the collet.
http://forum.carvewright.com/showpost.php?p=127600&postcount=7
AskBud

[dbfletcher]

Doug, It is your attitude. As far as having LHR find a 3rd party that would be stacking the cards, wouldn't it? As to Consumer Reports,
1. they wouldn't
2. if they did, I couldn't believe them as their reports have steered me wrong almost every time I've heeded them in the past 40 years.:)

Pkunk... I think you are really misreading my attitude then. Which is often a problem with written words when you cant see body languange and other clues of intent when speaking face to face. Again.. I AM NOT SAYING anything negative about LHR or the new Chuck. Apparently you mind is made up on my intent and it seems unlikely to change... so I wont push this further. But.. I will say it one last time... nothing I wrote was meant to be negative to LHR, MT, the new chuck system.

Doug Fletcher

[SteveEJ]

I didn't see an attitude with Dougs comments. I did see one in yours however. Impartial data is a good thing. Competition is a good thing. I remember a time in the not so distant past that folks that were looking for an alternative were treated as aliens or worse. The overall process was painful to some folks both emotionally and financially. I, for one, am very glad the the engineers/owners of LHR have taken initiative and developed a new chuck that is superior than it's predecessor. Great Job!

Thanks,

[pkunk]

Nope! Never. You know, I've had my QC operational for many years. I've never had a carbide bit work loose from an adapter and I've been through numerous bits due to dulling. I have however always used used Locktite on the shaft when installing them.


Never? :mrgreen::)

Some interesting information about using sleeves and solid carbide in the "Tips and tricks" saying that carbide shanks and steel sleeves will tend to slip or work loose but the steel to steel shank ones not as much.

LG

[AskBud]

Never? :mrgreen::)

Some interesting information about using sleeves and solid carbide in the "Tips and tricks" saying that carbide shanks and steel sleeves will tend to slip or work loose but the steel to steel shank ones not as much.

LG
I think what they are pointing out is the fact that the "Cutting & Carving" bits do not have the enlarged head that most of the other bits have. They have a smooth shank. This means that "side pressure" is the only thing keeping the bit from moving/slipping back into the chuck as the pressure and heat of the carve is generated.

I see a few others that may encounter the same problem (however, they do not generally get the volume of usage the afore mentioned bits receive).
AskBud

[klingler]

I think what they are pointing out is the fact that the "Cutting & Carving" bits do not have the enlarged head that most of the other bits have. They have a smooth shank. This means that "side pressure" is the only thing keeping the bit from moving/slipping back into the chuck as the pressure and heat of the carve is generated.

I see a few others that may encounter the same problem (however, they do not generally get the volume of usage the afore mentioned bits receive).
AskBud

This being the case, would loctite or some other adhesive help reduce/eliminate the possibility of the bit from coming lose? My QC exploded a few weeks ago (with only 80 hours on the machine) and since I don't use the machine very often, I decided to wait until this announcement before making a decision on a replacement. Really don't want to spend the extra cash on getting the bit sleeves added to my bits - I just got both about a month ago!

[AskBud]

This being the case, would LockTite or some other adhesive help reduce/eliminate the possibility of the bit from coming lose? My QC exploded a few weeks ago (with only 80 hours on the machine) and since I don't use the machine very often, I decided to wait until this announcement before making a decision on a replacement. Really don't want to spend the extra cash on getting the bit sleeves added to my bits - I just got both about a month ago!
I think the problem will arise on "Long/extended" usage times on the Cutting & Carving bits in particular. LockTite may hold on short carves, but most of us have seen the screws loosen on the adapter(s) on "High heat" carves.
AskBud

[mtylerfl]

Hello,

Yep. I wish a disinterested third-party would do a comparison between the chucks too - especially since the engineers (and I) already know how that would come out! Like Joe said, it's already been proven that the CarveTight is superior compared to all current existing alternatives, but that was done in-house.

I received a lot of feedback from the engineers when gathering information for the article. They were very specific about why and how the CarveTight system is superior to other chucks (including the QC of course). I'm estimating I pestered them a total of 3 hours (or more) over the last few weeks, pumping them for information and asking a bunch of questions -including comparison results to the other chucks, naturally.

When finally putting it all together and editing for the article, I actually named specific chucks pointing out certain design issues and long-term concerns in the early drafts (went through 16 drafts, by the way as I kept distilling it down!). At some point we became concerned that it might better not to say anything in the article that might be misconstrued or give the impression in any way as knocking another product - and of course it wasn't - but, better safe than sorry.

So, I attempted to describe the unique advantages of the CarveTight compared to other chucks in the most neutral fashion I could muster. The most significant difference (and the 'secret' to the CarveTight's better performance and less stress on all related components of the machine) is the one-piece integrated spindle/chuck configuration - nobody else has that.

A couple folks mentioned it looks like some of the other chucks. Well, as the article points out, the CarveTight is a completely unique design. Hopefully I included enough basic and pertinent information why the CarveTight is indeed the superior product without an abrupt blow-by-blow comparison. It's one of those 'darned if you do - darned if you don't' situations, I guess!

For what it's worth, I am totally and personally convinced that the only replacement chuck that I can feel completely confident with in any of my machines is the CarveTight. Remember, I'm just like any other user. I want the best for my machine and I want the absolute smallest chance of problems cropping up down the road. I believe the CarveTight is the ticket, but honestly have no problem if anyone disagrees with that. I'm happy!

[klingler]

I think the problem will arise on "Long/extended" usage times on the Cutting & Carving bits in particular. LockTite may hold on short carves, but most of us have seen the screws loosen on the adapter(s) on "High heat" carves.
AskBud

So you're saying I don't have a choice here... I need to get the sleeves on the bits?

[mtylerfl]

So you're saying I don't have a choice here... I need to get the sleeves on the bits?

Hi John,

I wondered about adhesives too and spoke to one of the techs regarding any reliable way of using a split collet on carbide bits. He responded with a resounding 'no' - told me a couple horror stories of bit slips on various chucks. In short, the official stance on the matter at present is that 100% carbide bits with hard-pressed collars is the only reliable way to completely prevent bit slippage in any chuck.

[klingler]

Hi John,

I wondered about adhesives too and spoke to one of the techs regarding any reliable way of using a split collet on carbide bits. He responded with a resounding 'no' - told me a couple horror stories of bit slips on various chucks. In short, the official stance on the matter at present is that 100% carbide bits with hard-pressed collars is the only reliable way to completely prevent bit slippage in any chuck.

Thanks MT. I appreciate your comment all around.

[AskBud]

So you're saying I don't have a choice here... I need to get the sleeves on the bits?
As I read the PDf, I see that the new bits will now come with the sleeve/collet "pressed on".

You will need at least one collet for the other 1/4" bits, and could use it on the Cutting & Carving bit (for, light, short duration work), if you want to take the chance of having to redo your project due to the bit loosing its position. I think most times it will move upward. However, if it "plunges" your $$ problems out weigh the savings.
AskBud

[dbfletcher]

Speaking of tolerances and runout..every company I know of has a range of tolerances for a component. What is the acceptable amount of runout of the one piece spindle before it would be rejected? Are they all dead on or is the variances between spindle's of a few .0001 or less? (Mostly just a curiosity on my part going back to my experience with RC Helicopter shafts.. with the blade tips moving well over 300 mph you can see how even a little runout get magnified greatly)

Doug Fletcher

[lawrence]

I'll definately be sticking with my Rock until the wheels fall off... I am very happy with its performance.

This being said, three cheers for LHR for listening to us as consumers and creating an alternate chuck which is obviously (from what I can see in the pictures and from y'all descriptions) superior to the QC.

Also thank you LHR for stating that you will continue to support the older chuck style-- this assures those of us using rock chucks of backwards-compatable parts... I for one appreciate the gesture even if it is not overtly stated.

And one more thank you for discouting the STL importer... once again this is a good business move to create business... and a good PR move. An order may be coming from me soon.

I hope this does not seem like too much rear-end kissing... but it constantly amazes me how attentively this company listens and adjusts their product to our needs... often for no charge... and many folks still seem to not understand how rare and commendable this is.

Lawrence

[mtylerfl]

Speaking of tolerances and runout..every company I know of has a range of tolerances for a component. What is the acceptable amount of runout of the one piece spindle before it would be rejected? Are they all dead on or is the variances between spindle's of a few .0001 or less? (Mostly just a curiosity on my part going back to my experience with RC Helicopter shafts.. with the blade tips moving well over 300 mph you can see how even a little runout get magnified greatly)

Doug Fletcher

Hi Doug,

I don't have the figures, but I can tell you what they told me. The initial prototypes had such tight tolerances, they were actually 'too' perfect! (Yes, there is such a thing!) They found the sweet-spot and apparently the tolerances are exactly where they need to be on the production runs.

[klingler]

So this is how it breaks down... for me:

CarveTight - $120
New carving and cutting bits - 80
Collet - 19
TOTAL - $219

- OR -

Rock kit - $149
1/2 to 1/4 sleeve - 21
TOTAL - $170

Realistically, the $50 isn't much of a difference. But with the requirement of the hard-pressed collars on any 1/4" carbide shank, that could be a limiting factor.

On the other hand, is the difference in the two chuck systems really THAT noticeable? If so, the possible limiting factors and the $50 difference could be negligible.

No real question here, just helps to write it out when attempting to come up with a decision.

[mtylerfl]

As I read the PDf, I see that the new bits will now come with the sleeve/collet "pressed on".

You will need at least one collet for the other 1/4" bits, and could use it on the Cutting & Carving bit (for, light, short duration work), if you want to take the chance of having to redo your project due to the bit loosing its position. I think most times it will move upward. However, if it "plunges" your $$ problems out weigh the savings.
AskBud

No, you cannot use the split collet for any run using the 100% carbide Carving and Cutting bits - light, short or otherwise! I hope I made that clear in the article (if I recall I typed it in ALL CAPS).;)

[AskBud]

No, you cannot use the split collet for any run using the 100% carbide Carving and Cutting bits - light, short or otherwise! I hope I made that clear in the article (if I recall I typed it in ALL CAPS).;)

Point taken! Now it's BOLD.
AskBud

[mtylerfl]

No, you cannot use the split collet for any run using the 100% carbide Carving and Cutting bits - light, short or otherwise! I hope I made that clear in the article (if I recall I typed it in ALL CAPS).;)

Point taken! Now it's BOLD.
AskBud

Thanks! I'm afraid somewhere, sometime, someday, SOMEONE is going to try that and have a really bad day! The boldness you added may help prevent some of that!;)

[liquidguitars]

No, you cannot use the split collet for any run using the 100% carbide Carving and Cutting bits - light, short or otherwise! I hope I made that clear in the article (if I recall I typed it in ALL CAPS).;)

Hmm,

Some of the rock user have a lot of hrs running this combo without any probs unless MT is some sort of machinist wizard like Ron J in the industry this is just second hand info. however the warning is taken.

I have the .50" bore Rock so the next bit i will try will be the sleeves. eventually i like to try the new spindle 2 :)

LG

[mtylerfl]

Hmm,

Some of the rock user have a lot of hrs running this combo without any probs.
unless MT is some sort of machinist wizard like Ron J in the industry this is just second hand info, however the warning is taken. :mrgreen:

LG

I don't think I'm a wizard at anything, much less machining!;) Yep, bit slip verified by Carvewright engineers and by me based on the large number of calls I receive from 'certain chuck' users who have z-errors much more frequently than even any QC owner I've ever known!

[AskBud]

Hmm,

Some of the rock user have a lot of hrs running this combo without any probs.
unless MT is some sort of machinist wizard like Ron J in the industry this is just second hand info, however the warning is taken.
LG

This excerpt from a tool making firm may give us the reasoning.
"Bit and collet condition
The condition of your bit and collet are important to the quality of your work and your personal safety. Inspect your collet regularly for signs of wear; replace immediately if you suspect any damage. Rust and corrosion on either the bit or the collet reduce the collet’s holding power. Keep the collet and bit free of lubricants that might loosen this bond. Always insert your bit all of the way into the collet and then back it out a little (1/16"). This will help insure it is properly seated. Make sure the collet is free from sawdust, shavings, or any other foreign bodies. As a safety precaution, you can mark a vertical line on your bit’s shank and a matching line on your collet. Line the two lines up. After you finish using your router check the lines. If they are not lined up any more, your bit is slipping in your collet. This is a sign that it might be time to replace the collet. "
AskBud

[dbfletcher]

I don't think I'm a wizard at anything, much less machining!;) Yep, bit slip verified by Carvewright engineers and by me based on the large number of calls I receive from 'certain chuck' users who have z-errors much more frequently than even any QC owner I've ever known!

Well.. I am sure you have much better first hand knowledge that I do... but it sure seems to me that virtually all of the "bit slip" issues that showed up on the forum where nearly all caused my the user not aligning the flat correctly. And certainly when i was a "new" rock user that was anything but clear to me. Once RJ posted the pics that made it very clear is seemed as if the bit slip issues disappeared on the forum. I know RJ did post what the clamping pressure was with and without sleeves..... I dont recall what they were off hand but it sure did seem like it would be unlikely to slip. I'm not sure what your Z issues were but those that posted on the forum seemed to be with the use of collars and sleeves.

Doug Fletcher

[liquidguitars]

I don't think I'm a wizard at anything, much less machining!;) Yep, bit slip verified by Carvewright engineers and by me based on the large number of calls I receive from 'certain chuck' users who have z-errors much more frequently than even any QC owner I've ever known!

MT,

I think all you need to do is tell us that LHR recommends this system and not make it a marketing issue here thanks..

LG

[mtylerfl]

MT,

I think all you need to do is tell us that LHR recommends this system and not make it a marketing issue here thanks..

LG

OK - CarveWright recommends this system and this is not a marketing issue.;)

[liquidguitars]

OK - CarveWright recommends this system and this is not a marketing issue.;)

LOL :)

LG

[mtylerfl]

Well.. I am sure you have much better first hand knowledge that I do... but it sure seems to me that virtually all of the "bit slip" issues that showed up on the forum where nearly all caused my the user not aligning the flat correctly. And certainly when i was a "new" rock user that was anything but clear to me. Once RJ posted the pics that made it very clear is seemed as if the bit slip issues disappeared on the forum. I know RJ did post what the clamping pressure was with and without sleeves..... I dont recall what they were off hand but it sure did seem like it would be unlikely to slip. I'm not sure what your Z issues were but those that posted on the forum seemed to be with the use of collars and sleeves.

Doug Fletcher

Yes, I believe that improper bit alignment/positioning was a main source of the bit slip problems in the Rock. The issue can range from a minor inconvenience to a broken or thrown bit in any chuck, if the user does not use prudence. I recall Ron and I had that discussion some time ago here on the forum. I have never personally used a Rock myself, so all I have to go on is the feedback from the engineers and the calls from users, which I always tell them to be careful how they mount the bit and contact Ron if they have any other questions specific to the Rock. I should add that I think he has a fine product. The choice lies with each individual what they think is best for their machine.

[SteveEJ]

Maybe I am simple but if this was an issue wouldn't it be true for Porter Cable, Bosh and all of the other router manufacturers? I mean, I use a 3 1/4 hp router with my CNC and have never had to use carbide bits with pressed on sleeves to keep from having slippage. The big thing with them is if I do have to use a collete that I use the proper type because of runout. Legacy recommends the Eliminator chuck with the router for my 900/CNC.

I have been using the Rock for a long time and have never had a bit come loose. I suppose it is possible but I have not had it happen.

[mtylerfl]

Maybe I am simple but if this was an issue wouldn't it be true for Porter Cable, Bosh and all of the other router manufacturers? I mean, I use a 3 1/4 hp router with my CNC and have never had to use carbide bits with pressed on sleeves to keep from having slippage. The big thing with them is if I do have to use a collete that I use the proper type because of runout. Legacy recommends the Eliminator chuck with the router for my 900/CNC.

I have been using the Rock for a long time and have never had a bit come loose. I suppose it is possible but I have not had it happen.

Hi Steve,

Your bits for your conventional router are likely not 100% carbide bits with a carbide shank - it may be more likely the cutting flutes are carbide and the shank is steel, so bit slip shouldn't be an issue on your hand router...plus a hand router is not normally used for continuous hours of carving! Kind of apples and oranges there, I think. I don't know about the larger or special CNC chucks - I have no personal experience with them. I'm sure there's all sorts of chuck design variations out there for other machines.

If you've had no variegated lines in carvings, no LCD z-errors, no errors during bit homing and/or at bit swap during a project, no variation of carving depth during long carves, then it sure sounds like the bits are staying in place!

[SteveEJ]

Michael,
Actually a lot of the bits I buy for the CNC are all carbide and I have had them run between 18,000 and 20,000 rpm for 4 and 5 hour carves. I think good maint/inspections and other good practices eliminates a lot of problems.

Thanks for the good reviews and tips! Keep them coming..:D

[Pratyeka]

I'd like to know how many hours LHR's engineers spent making sure we would have no other choice than to use the pressed-on collar bit they sell.;)

As for bits slipping in the collar, I never had this happen in my modified eliminator.

Makes me wonder, if something goes wrong with the Z truck and you have to replace it, will you be able to save the spindle and get it installed on a new Z truck to save some money, or will you be stuck with trashing the whole z truck and buy a new spindle?

[mtylerfl]

Michael,
Actually a lot of the bits I buy for the CNC are all carbide and I have had them run between 18,000 and 20,000 rpm for 4 and 5 hour carves. I think good maint/inspections and other good practices eliminates a lot of problems.

Thanks for the good reviews and tips! Keep them coming..:D

Hi Steve,

Thank you for the additional info on your bits and carve times, and also for the kind words of encouragement! You are absolutely correct that good practices eliminate a lot of problems alright!

[brdad]

This looks like a dependable product. If I hadn't had to get a replacement a month ago I would have had to consider this. There is no mention as to whether the warranty varies from the original QC setup, however, which would be nice for some to know (Not for me, my machine is not warrantied anyway).

Of course, if LHR eventually does away with the QC and older style spindle permanently, the Rock and other aftermarket adapters will no longer be an option. Not that there is anything wrong with that, it makes more sense to have one dependable spindle as opposed to one dependable spindle in addition to one which is highly prone to user error and varying degrees of accuracy.

[rjustice]

I want to point out that the use of the sleeves designed for the Rock Chuck system are unique, and are not the same style single split sleeve shown in the tips and tricks write up by MT. My sleeves are absolutely safe to use in the Rock Chuck system. There have been a few issues, mainly with the 1/8 cutout bit slipping, and they were absolutely related to the alignment of the slit in the sleeve being oriented towards the Clamp Screw...

I have been a machinist for 30 years, and have used steel collets to clamp on solid carbide shank tools over my entire career. This is in a steel cutting environment that is much more demanding in terms of tightness, and trueness of runout. I am not suggesting that certain designs couldn't be a problem, because they can. The ROCK Sleeve, works quite well in the ROCK chuck... It doesnt sound like it is a good idea in the new CT chuck.

Hope this helps..

Ron

[mtylerfl]

I'd like to know how many hours LHR's engineers spent making sure we would have no other choice than to use the pressed-on collar bit they sell.;)

As for bits slipping in the collar, I never had this happen in my modified eliminator.

Makes me wonder, if something goes wrong with the Z truck and you have to replace it, will you be able to save the spindle and get it installed on a new Z truck to save some money, or will you be stuck with trashing the whole z truck and buy a new spindle?

Hi Pratyeka,

Probably someone from CarveWright can answer your questions better than I can.

As I understand it, I believe the one-piece CarveTight unit could be salvaged, but if the truck itself physically broke for whatever reason, I imagine there would be no good way to repair that physical damage (essentially no change from how it is now as far as a broken truck is concerned). I think a broken Z-truck is a rather unlikely 'what if' scenario though, especially if using the CarveTight Z-truck assembly. Less stress occurs on all the components as compared to the other chucks, according to the engineers.

[PCW]

I have been using the Eliminator on my CNC and the Rock on my CW and have never had a bit slip issue.

I don't like the fact that you are locked into buying LHR's bits with the new system (control issue). After all this is one of my reasons to seek to alternative.

[mtylerfl]

I want to point out that the use of the sleeves designed for the Rock Chuck system are unique, and are not the same style single split sleeve shown in the tips and tricks write up by MT. My sleeves are absolutely safe to use in the Rock Chuck system. There have been a few issues, mainly with the 1/8 cutout bit slipping, and they were absolutely related to the alignment of the slit in the sleeve being oriented towards the Clamp Screw...

I have been a machinist for 30 years, and have used steel collets to clamp on solid carbide shank tools over my entire career. This is in a steel cutting environment that is much more demanding in terms of tightness, and trueness of runout. I am not suggesting that certain designs couldn't be a problem, because they can. The ROCK Sleeve, works quite well in the ROCK chuck... It doesnt sound like it is a good idea in the new CT chuck.

Hope this helps..

Ron

Hi Ron,

Thank you for the great info! I do not know if the engineers actually tried using one of your sleeves in the CarveTight, or not. (I'll have to ask them about that). I think where the main focus was, was on the cantilever forces measured between the two chucks, as I recall.

[mtylerfl]

I have been using the Eliminator on my CNC and the Rock on my CW and have never had a bit slip issue.

I don't like the fact that you are locked into buying LHR's bits with the new system (control issue). After all this is one of my reasons to seek to alternative.

Hi Dan,

Not a control issue at all - it is a safety/liability issue. Companies have to be very careful what they tell folks to use! No 'conspiracy' here.;)

[rjustice]

Hi Ron,

Thank you for the great info! I do not know if the engineers actually tried using one of your sleeves in the CarveTight, or not. (I'll have to ask them about that). I think where the main focus was, was on the cantilever forces measured between the two chucks, as I recall.

Cantilever forces has nothing to do with using a sleeve holding a carbide bit. This is a different subject.

[mtylerfl]

Cantilever forces has nothing to do with using a sleeve holding a carbide bit. This is a different subject.

Yes, you are right - different subject altogether!

[PCW]

Michael,

OK if you say so. That is what I though when my Quick Chuck decided one day to use me as a dart board.:mrgreen:


Hi Dan,

Not a control issue at all - it is a safety/liability issue. Companies have to be very careful what they tell folks to use! No 'conspiracy' here.;)

[mtylerfl]

Michael,

OK if you say so. That is what I though when my Quick Chuck decided one day to use me as a dart board.:mrgreen:

Wow! Wonder how on earth that happened?! Hadn't heard of that before. I know my own QC's behave(d) just fine (no shrapnel!)

[PCW]

Michael,

I'm not the first. Broken bits from what I believe software programing speed rates issue. I do use all hardwood not pine.


Wow! Wonder how on earth that happened?! Hadn't heard of that before. I know my own QC's behave just fine (no shrapnel!)

[Router-Jim]

Is the new Carve-Tight chuck going to become standard equipment on the new CarveWright machines?

In my opinion this new chuck is going to greatly reduce the amount of problems that are posted here. As a long time user of several machines I've always felt that the QC was the weak link that slowly destoyed the machine as it began to wear out causing excess vibration and heat build up.

Kudos to LHR for developing the new chuck. :cool:

[mtylerfl]

Michael,

I'm not the first. Broken bits from what I believe software programing speed rates issue. I do use all hardwood not pine.

Yes, broken bits, I've heard of. I think you'll be pleased with the new speed/feed rates in the latest software. They labored over this for quite some time to help make the machine more reliable for cutting/carving hardwoods/softwoods/approved plastics, even 3/4" plywood (!) and so on. I didn't mention it in the article, but the CarveTight does enable a user to be more 'aggressive' without fear when performing cutouts. One of the tests was a 5-foot tall dxf/puzzle dinosaur cut from 8-foot long sections of plywood (they told me the outfeed support setup was the biggest hassle). Not saying I would try that myself necessarily, but it is doable!

[PCW]

Sounds great and I know how hard it must be finding a sweet spot balancing the speed as well as the travel rate to meet everyone's needs.

I have seen alot of improvement in the short time (1 1/2 years) that I've own my Carvewright and look forward to what the future holds.

It is a unique machine and has unique obstacles and I feel that LHR is a leader in the market that it is intended for.


I think you'll be pleased with the new speed/feed rates in the latest software. They labored over this for quite some time to help make the machine more reliable for cutting/carving hardwoods/softwoods/approved plastics, even 3/4" plywood (!) and so on.!

[mtylerfl]

Is the new Carve-Tight chuck going to become standard equipment on the new CarveWright machines?

In my opinion this new chuck is going to greatly reduce the amount of problems that are posted here. As a long time user of several machines I've always felt that the QC was the weak link that slowly destoyed the machine as it began to wear out causing excess vibration and heat build up.

Kudos to LHR for developing the new chuck. :cool:

Hi Jim,

Personally, I hope they seriously consider going to the CarveTight as standard equipment. Not because I am unhappy with the QC myself, but it has been a drain of time and resources on everyone (including me...writing articles, answering questions on the phone, the forum, PM's, etc.) due to issues a lot of folks seem to have with that setup. The CarveTight virtually eliminates chuck/spindle issues and requires no maintenance, no fiddling with bit orientation in the chuck, no bit slips - in short, it's fool-proof.

I think it is a great idea to shift to the CarveTight for good! (I vote they do it!)

[Icutone2]

Just ordered mine. I thought it was a good price for the Z truck and the adopters.
Lee

[SeaCapt97]

I wish some of you guys would quit bickering like old ladies on our forum. I'm tired of weeding through the tripe to get to the facts! Take it to the PM if you must.

[rcdages]

To LHR staff and Michael Tyler:

Michael,
Fantastic job on the Tips and Tricks of the Month on the new CarveTight.

LHR,
To Chris, Joe, and all others who number too many to list, and all that have played a part in the developement.

Fantastic job on presentation of news letter page. From what I have seen in the early developement stages to this release of the CarveTight, it has been well worth the wait.

As for myself, I am making an appointment to get the New CarveTight installed.

Happy Carving,
Robert
rcdages

[mtylerfl]

To LHR staff and Michael Tyler:

Michael,
Fantastic job on the Tips and Tricks of the Month on the new CarveTight.

LHR,
To Chris, Joe, and all others who number too many to list, and all that have played a part in the developement.

Fantastic job on presentation of news letter page. From what I have seen in the early developement stages to this release of the CarveTight, it has been well worth the wait.

As for myself, I am making an appointment to get the New CarveTight installed.

Happy Carving,
Robert
rcdages

Thank you very much, Robert. I know you are just as excited as I am! I don't remember for sure, but I think you actually saw one in person before I did. It's a 'killer' to have kept this to ourselves for so long, eh? I must admit that I felt like a school boy on Christmas morning when I was notified that the official announcement had taken place! I let out a loud "YES!" when I got the word. Ok - enough gushing...back to my reserved manner.;)

[Digitalwoodshop]

WOW.... LHR GREAT JOB on the new CT !!!!!

A few Questions....

1. Does the design of the new QC still use the Damper ring around the lower bearing of the Z Truck. See Picture 1 of what I call the damper ring.

If the Damper is no longer used with the CT than the Rock users will always have a extra component that could have some tolerance issues.

I have never noticed the tolerance issue except when the damper fell down on a Referb chuck.


2 If a new Z Truck with the CT was damaged, could the CT be transfered is a new Truck at a reduced cost at LHR?

This is a less likely problem with the new Z Truck that does not have the holes for the Probe Data and Homing Sensor. The early Castings of the Z Truck had a thin casting on one of the bearing screw holes and the wedge effect of the bearing screw snapped the Truck. A interim fix worked great, with a black steel washer spreading out the stress.

The current Z Truck has no openings and the thin casting at the bearing holes has been addressed. At this time, I don't see much of a chance of the New Z Truck being damaged with a Rock OR a CT. So the swap may never be much of an issue. The CT may live forever..... I think the weak link to a over stressed Z Truck will now switch to the Bearing Screws. They will snap off and are easily replaced.

3. If a Z Truck is sent in that is a old thin version with holes in it and a thin bearing hole. Will the CT be installed in that version or will we get a new no hole, heavier version?

4. Will the Z Trucks sent in for the new CT have a warranty? If so, how long?

The reason I ask is that I purchased a Refurbished Z Truck and the Damping Ring slipped down. (See Picture) I was not able to get a refund as I had it in my spare parts for about 6 months before installing it. My bad.

As you may know I purchase spare parts ahead of time, my last big order for for $700.63 in parts, order 24732. A total to LHR in 2008 and 2009 was $2573.39 for everything from Bits to Motors.


As for the QC using me for a Dart Board... Yes it did happen once with a QC and a V60 bit that I did not seat properly. It became airborne and hit the clear cover and opened it enough to trip the open cover and stop the machine. My Bad.

So to recap my feelings on the new CT.... I like the single unified shaft idea.

I no longer use a 1/2 inch shaft bits since I shifted to the 1/4 inch shaft 3/8 cutting bit. Since one machine is devoted to cutting plastic sheeting, I just purchased a box of 30 End mill Bits with 1/8 inch shafts used in the Circuit Board Industry new for $15.00 including shipping on eBay. They are machined to cut and plunge. I will be looking for a 1/8 inch ROCK option since they are 100% Carbide.

And for anyone that did not pick it up, the bit box will not be sold with the new sleeve bits until the insert can be redesigned to fit the bits.

Overall "GOOD JOB LHR"....

AL

[lynnfrwd]

I let out a loud "YES!"

So did I Michael! So did I!

Of course, you never feel like you are quite ready for that trigger to be pulled, but when you hear it's done, you feel good. I'm sure EVERYONE at LHR is as proud and excited as I am and honored to be part of such a great company. There were lots of folks working like crazy to get this out, not just in the last days, by months!!! High 5 everyone!

But you guys... I haven't been able to stay away from checking to see how you were accepting it, not accepting it, the intelligent questions you are coming up with and, yes, even loving the banter! You are my heros and the true experts on this machine.

Keep it up and I can't wait to start hearing from you on Monday!!!!

PS....Don't everyone try getting through to Customer Service at 9 AM...spread it out a little through out the day! ;);)

[JDPratt]

Since I am not a machinist and there seems to be a lot of discussion about the 100% carbide bits, "What is the purpose of a 100% carbide bit?" Why would the shaft need to be carbide? Since the shaft does not do any cutting, couldn't the shaft remain HSS or similar? If there was an advantage to having all carbide on a cutting tool (including the shaft which never sees the wood), why do my TS blades only have carbide on the tips and not made entirely out of carbide (although that would be hugely expensive). Not meant to dig on the new CT, just wondering. I am sure one of the machinists out there can enlighten me.

[rcdages]

lynnfrwd,

As stated in my earlier post I will be calling on Monday about bringing my CW
in for the New CarveTight.

It is just wonderful to see it roll out.

As I stated before-my hat is off to all of LHR and Michael on Tips & Tricks.

LHR is a great company.

Robert,
rcdages

[shotgun 6]

The write-up on the CarveTight indicates that it runs quieter. The QC was really noisy with a high pitched sound that penetrated the insulated ceiling of my basement to the kitchen above. The Rock is a little quieter but the noise still penetrates although not as loud . In comparison, how much quieter is the CT? Has the db been measured so we can get a feel of the actual sound level. Being "quieter" doesn't tell us anything.

I like the one-piece design but when considering that we'll have to buy new bits and a collete, this starts to take on the appearance of a major upgrade for hobbists. Noise levels could be a deciding factor.

Bill

[pkunk]

Some bits, because of their shape, can have the carbide cutting edges braized on. The spiral cutting bit and the tapered spiral carving bit have to have the cutting edges machined into the solid carbide shaft.

Since I am not a machinist and there seems to be a lot of discussion about the 100% carbide bits, "What is the purpose of a 100% carbide bit?" Why would the shaft need to be carbide? Since the shaft does not do any cutting, couldn't the shaft remain HSS or similar? If there was an advantage to having all carbide on a cutting tool (including the shaft which never sees the wood), why do my TS blades only have carbide on the tips and not made entirely out of carbide (although that would be hugely expensive). Not meant to dig on the new CT, just wondering. I am sure one of the machinists out there can enlighten me.

[mtylerfl]

The write-up on the CarveTight indicates that it runs quieter. The QC was really noisy with a high pitched sound that penetrated the insulated ceiling of my basement to the kitchen above. The Rock is a little quieter but the noise still penetrates although not as loud . In comparison, how much quieter is the CT? Has the db been measured so we can get a feel of the actual sound level. Being "quieter" doesn't tell us anything.

I like the one-piece design but when considering that we'll have to buy new bits and a collete, this starts to take on the appearance of a major upgrade for hobbists. Noise levels could be a deciding factor.

Bill

Hi Bill,

The CarveWright still makes noise (it's a router, after all!), but it is "noticeably" quieter with the CarveTight. I am guessing it is a similar reduction in noise as owners of the Rock have mentioned.

I do not run my machines with the stock muffler. However, I put it on (temporarily) on my machine that has the CarveTight, just for grins. Wow! That made an even bigger difference in the noise level! I don't have a db meter, so I cannot provide actual measured noise differences between a machine with the QC vs one with the CarveTight. (I have no idea if the folks at CarveWright ever measured actual db levels or not...I never asked them.)

It's possible the noise level also depends upon the material being run through it as well. Bound to be some variance there. So, for now all I can say is "it's quieter". Sorry I can't be more specific!

Send me a db meter (quick) and I'll measure it for you. I still have one machine with a QC, but not for long!

[shotgun 6]

Thanks Michael -- my db meter is in the kitchen and I can't get her on the plane. Maybe CW will pick up on this and let us know. I'm sure they have to note it somewhere to please OSHA, EPA or some gov't agency.

Bill

[Ike]

Hi Bill,

The CarveWright still makes noise (it's a router, after all!), but it is "noticeably" quieter with the CarveTight. I am guessing it is a similar reduction in noise as owners of the Rock have mentioned.

I do not run my machines with the stock muffler. However, I put it on (temporarily) on my machine that has the CarveTight, just for grins. Wow! That made an even bigger difference in the noise level! I don't have a db meter, so I cannot provide actual measured noise differences between a machine with the QC vs one with the CarveTight. (I have no idea if the folks at CarveWright ever measured actual db levels or not...I never asked them.)

It's possible the noise level also depends upon the material being run through it as well. Bound to be some variance there. So, for now all I can say is "it's quieter". Sorry I can't be more specific!

Send me a db meter (quick) and I'll measure it for you. I still have one machine with a QC, but not for long!

Michael, I took a small vac hose from a Shop Vac type and the the end fits fine in the muffler hole, then the end that went into the vac is the right size for the muffler. You would be amazed the difference between just the muffler and the 6' 1" hose made in sound!

In my portable sign shop I am limited in space so sound is louder and the hose really helps! I had to sell my newest CC and I have a Rock for my CW and no complaints. But when I can I will be getting another CW with all the upgrades!

The new chuck looks good, but I am still impressed with the Rock!

Ike

PS I posted photos of my new grand baby!

[mtylerfl]

Thanks for the info, Ike! Good way to reduce the noise even more!

(I found the baby pics - CUTE!)

[Ike]

Thanks for the info, Ike! Good way to reduce the noise even more!

(I found the baby pics - CUTE!)

Thank you, yes she is!!

Ike

[Billions]

Hey guys, I know you're half-joking about the db readings, but last spring I used a db meter app I have on my iPhone to measure carves in a housing I built for the carvewright vs. carves out in the open (the app is called SoundMeter), and although the app isn't OSHA-certified accurate, it's quite good for getting an idea of the sound levels -

59 db - Outside, evening 5:15pm, normal ambient level, no carving
97 db - 5 feet away from machine during a carve
78 db - 5 feet away, carving while in enclosure

Now, these numbers are for the machine running full-tilt with the QuickChange chuck... I have a Rock but haven't installed and used it yet. I'm curious about getting this new CarveTight for my other machine, but I figure I should at least try my Rock purchase.
I'll remeasure the audio when I use the Rock or if I end up with the CarveTight.

Sorry to sound so naive, maybe it's answered elsewhere, but does the new software zero the bit while you use the CarveTight? That was kind of the issue with the Rock, correct? That because the machine zeroed the Z-axis with each bit at the start of your carve, if you tried changing the bit in the Rock from a carving bit to a cutting bit mid-carve, you'd end up with potential for inaccuracy on the depth of your carve?

It's what's kept me from switching to the Rock as I have been primarily doing cutting projects, staying with the QC cutting bit, waiting until I started carving again to use the Rock.

Thoughts (or links to read) on this?



Edit: So I went and saw the photos of the new bits in the Michael T piece in the April Tips PDF, and it seems the z-axis bit-height won't really be varying at all with the CarveTight because the new collet has that lip to seat bits consistently when you change to another bit. At least that's my understanding.

[Deolman]

I was concerned about the possibility of breaking bits so I stocked up on several bits. This adds up to $120.00 in new spare bits and if you add the two bits I normally use for cutting and carving this would be $200.00. I would really like a new chuck because I can see the reasoning. Can these bits be retro-fitted with the new collars or do I flush this money down the drain and then struggle to build my reserve back up again. Since I understand the extra effort involved to upgrade these bits, I would be willing to pay a reasonable fee for this service.

[Chief]

Mike,

I recently bought a multimeter that was on sale at Harborfreight. It's not listed on their web site so it may be discontinued but you can still check at your local store. The item # is 98674. It's a 5-in-1 meter that measures sound level, luminance, humidity, and temperature, as well as electrical current and voltage. You can read temperatures as instant ambient or with a probe. It's a pretty solid piece of equipment. Oh, IIRC, I paid $39 for it.

Chief



Send me a db meter (quick) and I'll measure it for you. I still have one machine with a QC, but not for long![/QUOTE]

[fwharris]

I was concerned about the possibility of breaking bits so I stocked up on several bits. This adds up to $120.00 in new spare bits and if you add the two bits I normally use for cutting and carving this would be $200.00. I would really like a new chuck because I can see the reasoning. Can these bits be retro-fitted with the new collars or do I flush this money down the drain and then struggle to build my reserve back up again. Since I understand the extra effort involved to upgrade these bits, I would be willing to pay a reasonable fee for this service.

Deolman,

Great point on the $$$ invested in the std. QC carving/cutting bits that will not work with the new CarveTight system. One thought I had was putting mine up for sale (low cost) to the Rock Chuck users or those who want to stay with the QC who might want to have them. All are used of course (no good estimate of hrs) so it would be an as is sale. Thinking about $7.50 to $10.00 range.

PM or email me if interested..

[CarverJerry]

Ok, so where can one find this new chuck to check it out?

CJ

[c6craig]

Ok, so where can one find this new chuck to check it out?

CJ

The Tips & Tricks is all about it:
http://carvebuddy.com/learning_center.html

or you can look on the CW website:
http://www.carvewright.com/cms/carvetight

Thanks,
Craig

[Deolman]

FW,

The bits I have as spares have not been used and still have the protective coating on them.

[fwharris]

FW,

The bits I have as spares have not been used and still have the protective coating on them.

The I think (ouch, that hurts sometimes) you should be able to get close to full price for them if you want to sell...

[shotgun 6]

Thanks Deolman for your decibel ratings along with the results with your cover. I guess if we always accepted things as they are we would never improve anything. It would be interesting to know where the noise origniantes -- bit, chuck, spindle, flex drive, motor, exhaust? And how much from each. Would be interesting to see results on that question. Might even give the engineers a basis for improvement.

Bill

[Deolman]

Thanks for the thanks Bill, but it wasn't me.

[shotgun 6]

Sorry 'bout that -- I should have said "Thanks Billions" for his response to my question on decibels.

Bill

[TerryT]

It would be interesting to know where the noise origniantes -- bit, chuck, spindle, flex drive, motor, exhaust?
Bill

I could be wrong cause I'm not an engineer, but I believe most of the noise, at least the noise that is being eliminated, is harmonics set up by vibration of the bit and chuck. Even with the original QC you could see a difference between a machine with a true running QC (much less noise) and one with a bad QC. I think folks that are changing a fairly good QC for some other type of chuck may not see that much noise reduction. Of course this is just based on my experience with my machine and one or two others.

[shotgun 6]

Good point Terry. I've also noticed that my carving bit makes more noise than the cutting bit. I don't recall this being the case when I had the QC installed. I have been using the Rock since the first of the year and it is noticably quieter -- "quiet" being relative. It would be interesting to know if CW has ever looked at this aspect of the machine.

Bill

[DickB]

This Carvetight thing is a conspiracy.

I got the email and read the tips, but as I have not had problems in over 100 hours carve time, I decided not to convert. So what happens tonight? I get a "trajectory assertion error" (found no help on that) and my bit is stuck. Get it unstuck, and find I cannot reload any bit. Then I notice that my carving bit's adapter is trashed, along with, I assume, my QC. So now I must update or replace. Guess I will update.

How did they do that to my QC?

[Metalhead781]

This Carvetight thing is a conspiracy.

I got the email and read the tips, but as I have not had problems in over 200 hours carve time, I decided not to convert. So what happens tonight? I get a "trajectory assertion error" (found no help on that) and my bit is stuck. get it unstuck, and find I cannot reload any bit. Then I notice that my carving bit's adapter is trashed, along with, I assume, my QC. So now I must update or replace. Guess I will update.

How did they do that to my QC?

Kinda funny, I had the same stuck issue with my QC using Ron's cutting bit and adapter. It was working outstandingly then i couldn't get the bit out after the last carve. Wasn't even a long carve, only 20 min. This happened last night and any other bit i put in the qc gets stuck too. Bit adapters are getting chewed up with bb marks. I just ordered a 1/2" rock about an hr ago with the 1/4 and 1/8" sleeves. I'm not gonna bother with LHR's new chuck, i'll stick with Ron.

Thanks
MH

[DickB]

Another irony is that I never checked the bit install using a mirror on the red marks, but started doing that just today after having read the Carvetight tips.

[klingler]

Kinda funny, I had the same stuck issue with my QC using Ron's cutting bit and adapter. It was working outstandingly then i couldn't get the bit out after the last carve. Wasn't even a long carve, only 20 min. This happened last night and any other bit i put in the qc gets stuck too. Bit adapters are getting chewed up with bb marks. I just ordered a 1/2" rock about an hr ago with the 1/4 and 1/8" sleeves. I'm not gonna bother with LHR's new chuck, i'll stick with Ron.

Thanks
MH

So MH, since you are sticking with Ron, where will you buy your carving/cutting bits when you can't get the ones without the pressed on sleeve from LHR anymore?

[dbfletcher]

So MH, since you are sticking with Ron, where will you buy your carving/cutting bits when you can't get the ones without the pressed on sleeve from LHR anymore?

I'm not MH.. but my guess is probably from Ron.... I already am a fan of the cutting and carving bits Ron supplies.

Doug Fletcher

[AskBud]

So MH, since you are sticking with Ron, where will you buy your carving/cutting bits when you can't get the ones without the pressed on sleeve from LHR anymore?

I think if you look at the PDF & Specs, again, you will see that the CarveTight is a 1/2" opening and that the Collets and Sleeves enlarge the profile to 1/2" as well. Since he has the 1/2" Rock, he is all set.
AskBud

[klingler]

I think if you look at the PDF & Specs, again, you will see that the CarveTight is a 1/2" opening and that the Collets and Sleeves enlarge the profile to 1/2" as well. Since he has the 1/2" Rock, he is all set.
AskBud

You're the man Bud. Thanks for helping me realize that. I believe I know what direction to go now :)

[PCW]

I don't think LHR would want to stop selling bits to rock users but there are other available for example precisebits.com (http://www.precisebits.com/products/carbidebits/taperedcarve250b4f.asp) or eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com/TAPERED-TOOL-CARVEWRIGHT-COMPUCARVE-MACHINES-/150413268865?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Routers_Bits&hash=item2305545781). Besides they will more than likely still be offering the Quick Chuck.

[rjustice]

There are a couple benefits to my bits for the Rock Chuck users... The bits that i sell do not have flats on them so you dont have to consider the location of a flat during tightening. Also with no flats, the bits are better balanced than the bits that have 1 flat.

[SteveEJ]

I have several of Ron's carve bits and 1/8" cut bits. They cut really well. When coated with Dyna Glide they seem to be lasting longer too. I do wish he had a 1/8" cut bit with a 1/4 inch shaft. It would eliminate the need for the adapter. One less point of failure would be better. This is NOT to say I am unhappy with the adapter.:D

[Metalhead781]

Wanted to say thanks to Ron for shipping out my my chuck. It should be here tomorrow. I've got my cover off and my switches neutralized. I kept a toggle switch for the right cut motor switch just for a safety feature but doubt i'll put the cover back on.

Thanks
MH

[chebytrk]

I have several of Ron's carve bits and 1/8" cut bits. They cut really well. When coated with Dyna Glide they seem to be lasting longer too. I do wish he had a 1/8" cut bit with a 1/4 inch shaft. It would eliminate the need for the adapter. One less point of failure would be better. This is NOT to say I am unhappy with the adapter.:D

Hey Steve,
Where can I purchase this Dyna Glide? Is it a spray and how often do you use it on your bits?

[CarverJerry]

Jerry B, I did a search and found this:

http://www.cheyennesales.com/catalog/dynaglide.htm

CJ

[mtylerfl]

Sounds like the DynaGlide might also be good for lubing bit plates, corner posts and maybe other 'stuff' too!

[dmede]

The Rock Chuck as I understand it was a user designed solution to a weak design point in the CW, is that right? It replaces an unbalanced OEM part which has been blamed for some of the wear issues with the unit?

If that's true than the CarveTight is the OEM fix for the same problems... but it's not being marketed as a fix rather an "upgrade". Or is it also going become standard on all new CWs?

[c6craig]

The Rock Chuck as I understand it was a user designed solution to a weak design point in the CW, is that right? It replaces an unbalanced OEM part which has been blamed for some of the wear issues with the unit?

If that's true than the CarveTight is the OEM fix for the same problems... but it's not being marketed as a fix rather an "upgrade". Or is it also going become standard on all new CWs?

As I understand it the QuickChuck that is standard on the machines will continue to be. This is being marketed as an upgrade. Technically, I have never seen LHR say in any form that the OEM QC leads to any other issues. Many have had problems with it, many have not. MT for example had quite a few hours before upgrading with no issues with his QC.

I think if LHR offered the Carve-Tight as a fix and issued a recall, they would be out of business with that kind of expense...

Just my 2 cents..

Craig

[AskBud]

The Rock Chuck as I understand it was a user designed solution to a weak design point in the CW, is that right? It replaces an unbalanced OEM part which has been blamed for some of the wear issues with the unit?

If that's true than the CarveTight (CT) is the OEM fix for the same problems... but it's not being marketed as a fix rather an "upgrade". Or is it also going become standard on all new CWs?

Since the QC was a non-warranty item, it may be a moot point.
You will notice that there is now an ad that markets LHR's "reconditioned" units with the new CT assembly included.

My bet is that all new units will soon include the CT as well (with a slight cost increase). The ad, I saw, stated that they were currently out of new units.
AskBud

[dmede]

As I understand it the QuickChuck that is standard on the machines will continue to be. This is being marketed as an upgrade. Technically, I have never seen LHR say in any form that the OEM QC leads to any other issues. Many have had problems with it, many have not. MT for example had quite a few hours before upgrading with no issues with his QC.

I think if LHR offered the Carve-Tight as a fix and issued a recall, they would be out of business with that kind of expense...

Just my 2 cents..

Craig

Not a recall, an upgrade. Think of a car... in any given model year (or between years of the same model) there may be many small changes made to the design, not as recalls but basic improvements. CW has done this already I think with many of the truck elements (wire protection, wire loom attachments and sensor upgrades? maybe a few other "fixes").

[dmede]

Since the QC was a non-warranty item, it may be a moot point.
You will notice that there is now an ad that markets LHR's "reconditioned" units with the new CT assembly included.

My bet is that all new units will soon include the CT as well (with a slight cost increase). The ad, I saw, stated that they were currently out of new units.
AskBud

That would make sense to me. Is there a way to match the unit you have with particular changes in the design? If I decide to buy used I'd like to be able to compare one used unit against another an know what I'm getting in terms of what changes LHR has made between them.

[SteveEJ]

Hey Steve,
Where can I purchase this Dyna Glide? Is it a spray and how often do you use it on your bits?

www.magnate.net has it for $12.95.

Excellent product!

I heard about it when I bought my Legacy 900/CNC. Keep you router bits clean and sharp! Makes for better and easier cleanup after carvings.

Steve

[twiceretired]

That would make sense to me. Is there a way to match the unit you have with particular changes in the design? If I decide to buy used I'd like to be able to compare one used unit against another an know what I'm getting in terms of what changes LHR has made between them.

My guess is if you order a reconditioned unit from LHR it should have all the updates, any other unit in the pipe line will be as is depending on how long the unit has been out there.

[dmede]

My guess is if you order a reconditioned unit from LHR it should have all the updates, any other unit in the pipe line will be as is depending on how long the unit has been out there.

Right, so my question is when buying used from a private party, is there way to connect LHR model changes to the unit I'm looking at (through a model number, model year or serial number)?

Another way to put it is, does anybody here have a running list by model number or production date of any little tweaks and changes LHR has made to improve the units over the years?

[cnsranch]

does anybody here have a running list by model number or production date of any little tweaks and changes LHR has made to improve the units over the years?

LHR can help - they know what "generation" the machine is by the serial number, and IF it was ever sent in for repair, what was done.