Lowes is shorting us

[SeaCapt97]

I usually buy my select pine a Lowes. The 4 footers are easy to handle and two 4 footers are cheaper than one eight foot. My last visit a bought four 1X12X4. Of the four two of them only measured just over 11 3/16" wide, not the expected 11 1/4". I changed the board size in designer to 11.188 (3/16) and the project still ran fine. From now on I plan to use the 11.188" to start with and save a few steps.

[MCGEE2SKINNER]

Check them all I got some that were only 11"
JIM

[fwharris]

Not only do you have to check width, you have to sort through all of the cupped, bowed and twisted stuff as well. The selection is very poor most of the time...

[Digitalwoodshop]

Depends on the Humidity too.... If it has sat inside as kiln dried wood near a heat source, it might have shrunk more. It would be interesting to know the board Moisture content?

AL

[ChrisAlb]

I usually buy my select pine a Lowes. The 4 footers are easy to handle and two 4 footers are cheaper than one eight foot. My last visit a bought four 1X12X4. Of the four two of them only measured just over 11 3/16" wide, not the expected 11 1/4". I changed the board size in designer to 11.188 (3/16) and the project still ran fine. From now on I plan to use the 11.188" to start with and save a few steps.


Having bought lumber all my life, I can tell you it all varies a lot. I've gotten 1 x 12 that range from 11-7/8 to 11-5/8 in width.

Sometimes on the same board from end to end...LOL

Which is why I always buy my wood and first rip it to the smallest dimension. This insures it's parallel as well which is crucial for the CW. Then I lay out my design to the finished size.

[mtylerfl]

I am buying Select Pine (kiln-dried) from Lowes. A year ago, the 1x12's measured .75" x 11.3".

Now, they measure .75" x 11.22"

I first noticed the 'board shrinkage' when trying to run one of my own projects set at a board width of 11.25". The machine alerted me to scale the project, so I knew something was amiss. Sure enough, the board was smaller than it used to be.

One thing I have started to do on projects that use a 1x12 (nominal) is specify the board width to be 11". Hopefully, our boards won't shrink below that!

I do not use (nor recommend) pine that is less than Select grade - too wet - too 'pitchy'. Of course, if one wants a knotty pine effect, they would want to dry the lumber themselves before putting in the machine, and make sure they use a piece that's not warped, cupped, twisted (kind of hard to find unless using dry Select Pine or dry hardwoods).

[wasacop75]

I got a board from the other big box store and it was different sizes the whole length. went from right size to almost a 1/4 inch difference in the middle to almost the right size at the other end. I wish i had the land and space so that i could cut my own lumber. The guys on here that have their own mills are the only ones getting the "mominal size" anymore.

[pkunk]

Even better than 'select', is moulding grade sugar pine. You won't find it at Lowes, but any lumber dealer that caters to cabinet shops & building contractors will carry it.
It is very fine grained, knot free, & kiln dried. I usually buy mine rough, in thicknesses up to 16/4 as I've found that by processing my own lumber to dimension is better for me. I can more easily get a 1x12 or a 2x 14 1/2 if that's what the project requires.
Dimensioned lumber is also available from those sources as well.

[c6craig]

I have found that I dont have a choice but to buy rough and finish it myself. I used to love the select pine at Lowes for simple signs and plaques. Now when I go try to find a board they are all gouged and dented and smashed up in general. It's like the stock guy kicked it down the isle instead of carrying it to the shelf....

Craig

[MAX COX]

I am very fortune to be able to buy rough cut lumber of many types from the amish in our nearby area. a lot of their hardwood comes from pennsylvania and indiana. i then am able to cut it and plane it to size. i am finding the same thing out at various lumberyards on the sizes.

[mtylerfl]

Even better than 'select', is moulding grade sugar pine. You won't find it at Lowes, but any lumber dealer that caters to cabinet shops & building contractors will carry it...It is very fine grained, knot free, & kiln dried...
Dimensioned lumber is also available from those sources as well.

Thanks for the tip, Paul! I'll try to find some of that sugar pine!


...I used to love the select pine at Lowes for simple signs and plaques. Now when I go try to find a board they are all gouged and dented and smashed up in general. It's like the stock guy kicked it down the isle instead of carrying it to the shelf....
Craig

I ran into the same problem a couple of months ago at Lowes - all their 8 ft. Select Pine 1x12's (about 6 boards if I recall) were dented, had 'mushed' edges and deep scratches. Obviously left behind by those who came before me! I went to the manager and told her that I preferred not to spend $30+ per board for damaged goods. Fortunately, they were getting a new shipment in the next day and I was able to pick up some decent wood.

I have not seen any similar select lumber damage ever since speaking to the manager. I guess it helped.

[wasacop75]

I have been able to get a couple of great deals from Home Depot on culled wood. But Lowe's wants to bundle their culled stuff in bundles and sell for about 75% or so..

[c6craig]

Thought I would take MT's suggestion so while I was at Lowes tonight picking up a special order door I thought I would bring the terrible condition of the pine to the managers attention.

Manager was not one bit interested in hearing what I had to say...was pretty much a shrug and what can I do look? I pointed out that I spend quite a bit of money there and that I was there tonight picking up a special order door. I told him half the pine they sold seemed to be from me, these torn up boards have been here for 2 months now, up until then I was able to find nice ones. Still made no difference. He didn't even want to see the flaws I was trying to show him.

Oh well, I guess I will be trying the other big box store in town tomorrow as I could really use some pine for a few signs I am doing...and I need to recarve an MT butterfly box lid since I hosed up the one I was working on for my sister's birthday.:roll:

End Rant :)

Thanks,
Craig

[mifflinlake]

In our area I am lucky to have three of the big box stores within a mile of each other. The selection in all three varies from poor to excellent at different times at each location. I just jump from store to store until I find what I want. We also have a couple of true lumber yards close by. These usually offer the best deals. They will usually work with you on price for any defects in the lumber. I can sometimes buy a 12 foot board with a couple of dings cheaper than I could get a 4 foot piece at the big box store. I really pays to look around.

[mtylerfl]

Thought I would take MT's suggestion so while I was at Lowes tonight picking up a special order door I thought I would bring the terrible condition of the pine to the managers attention.

Manager was not one bit interested in hearing what I had to say...was pretty much a shrug and what can I do look? I pointed out that I spend quite a bit of money there and that I was there tonight picking up a special order door. I told him half the pine they sold seemed to be from me, these torn up boards have been here for 2 months now, up until then I was able to find nice ones. Still made no difference. He didn't even want to see the flaws I was trying to show him.

Oh well, I guess I will be trying the other big box store in town tomorrow as I could really use some pine for a few signs I am doing...and I need to recarve an MT butterfly box lid since I hosed up the one I was working on for my sister's birthday.:roll:

End Rant :)

Thanks,
Craig

I'm very sorry to hear your local store manager was so unresponsive! A manager who doesn't listen to his customers is is treading on thin ice in my personal opinion. I hope he comes around soon or perhaps choose another career where maybe he'll do a better job for his employer.

You mentioned you had to re-carve the Butterfly box lid. Can you share what went wrong and is there anything I/we can do to help?

[Gean]

Mifflinlake is correct. Search around for local lumber yards. I work for one and we get some really good lumber for about the same price or less. We have craftsmen coming from several miles to buy our oak and walnut as well as the #2 pine we carry. Of course the 1X6's and 1X8's have already had a keen eye pick out some before they get there.;)

Gean

[c6craig]

I'm very sorry to hear your local store manager was so unresponsive! A manager who doesn't listen to his customers is is treading on thin ice in my personal opinion. I hope he comes around soon or perhaps choose another career where maybe he'll do a better job for his employer.

You mentioned you had to re-carve the Butterfly box lid. Can you share what went wrong and is there anything I/we can do to help?

Hi Michael,

Thanks but thats the way it goes sometimes. Not everyone takes pride in their work.

As for the butterfly box lid, I completely blame me having to recarve it on the poor design of the project. LOL OF COURSE I AM KIDDING. The project is awesome and the only reason I am recarving the lid is I screwed up trying out some "new to me" hidden barel hinges. They are very cool to use and work great but one of my 10mm holes was just about a 1/4 inch off so they didnt line up right from the box to lid. I could fill it with filler and redrill, but I would rather recarve it and have it just right.

I will offer a "with all due respect suggestion" on this one though. Maybe it was my machine, but the first box I made the antennae (sp?) of the butterfly were very fragile and had a couple chips. It was a test run so no big deal, I filled it in with pine wood filler and moved on. The one I just carved didnt chip but seems kind of fragile, just the antannae. I was very carful with it and it stayed intact, but it would be nice if they were beefed up just a tiny bit thicker. :cool: Either way, the project is worth it's weight in gold for just the box bottom. What a great starter box, add any lid and rock on....

Thanks again for all you do,
Craig

[CarverJerry]

I have noticed the difference in the wood, some are jointed square and some have rounded edges also, at least in the regular pine.

Can anyone tell me if the "select pine" will stay flat longer than the regular pine at Lowes. I have noticed on the larger plaques I've carved over a short time they start to warp, don't lay flat like they did when I first carved them.

[hess]

I have noticed the difference in the wood, some are jointed square and some have rounded edges also, at least in the regular pine.

Can anyone tell me if the "select pine" will stay flat longer than the regular pine at Lowes. I have noticed on the larger plaques I've carved over a short time they start to warp, don't lay flat like they did when I first carved them.

I found sealing then as soon as cut help also stack em back like for dryinf with some thin 3/4 strips between each one with heavey wood o top to hold them down

both of the home store short us by reducing the w oof the borads buy more thsn the 1/4 they had a year ago
the wood here has got so bad I just go to the mills and plain my own picked up 3 k worth of Cedar Oak and walnut and cherry for 350 in NC ar found one with a mini ball in it

[mtylerfl]

I will offer a "with all due respect suggestion" on this one though. Maybe it was my machine, but the first box I made the antennae (sp?) of the butterfly were very fragile and had a couple chips. It was a test run so no big deal, I filled it in with pine wood filler and moved on. The one I just carved didnt chip but seems kind of fragile, just the antannae. I was very carful with it and it stayed intact, but it would be nice if they were beefed up just a tiny bit thicker. :cool: Either way, the project is worth it's weight in gold for just the box bottom. What a great starter box, add any lid and rock on....

Thanks again for all you do,
Craig

Thank you, Craig.

I too had some concern about the antennae (and all the thin lines for that matter), so I applied a draft overall. In the instructions, I also 'highly suggested' ;) carving the lid on the Optimal setting to prevent chip-out issues on any thin parts of the design. The million dollar question - Did you use the Optimal setting?

As a rule, designs with thin, raised components (like the antennae or thin-ish letter fonts) should have a small or medium draft and be carved on Optimal for best results.

Other variables can be the wood itself...for example, red oak is automatically more prone to chip out on thin, raised parts during machining simply due to it's open-grain nature. Certain other wood types let you get away with more thin, raised detail without quite as much concern regarding chip out - cherry is one good example of that - tight grained woods take mechanical machining better.

Thanks again for your kind comments and your suggestions. I appreciate it very much.

PS - I've been wanting to try integrating the hidden barrel hinges on some of the projects, but resisted because of the cost to the user (I think I saw some for around $13 each from Lee Valley?? - can't recall for sure). Where do you order your barrel hinges from, and are they fairly economical for folks?

[mtylerfl]

I have noticed the difference in the wood, some are jointed square and some have rounded edges also, at least in the regular pine.

Can anyone tell me if the "select pine" will stay flat longer than the regular pine at Lowes. I have noticed on the larger plaques I've carved over a short time they start to warp, don't lay flat like they did when I first carved them.

Select Pine might be less prone to warp than 'regular' pine, just because the select grade is kiln-dried.

However, warping is always going to be an issue when a solid board is carved/machined on only one side. As Hess suggested, sealing overall and weighting down while drying can help a little, but doesn't eliminate it. Most of the projects we all do are fairly small in size, so warping isn't usually too noticeable or unmanageable.

I recall seeing a thread here awhile back about someone suggesting we should do glue-ups of narrow boards, alternating grain when glued, to make final widths for projects that will be over 8" (I think).

That (glue-up) is probably the best idea for the fight against the 'warp monster'.

[c6craig]

Thank you, Craig.

I too had some concern about the antennae (and all the thin lines for that matter), so I applied a draft overall. In the instructions, I also 'highly suggested' ;) carving the lid on the Optimal setting to prevent chip-out issues on any thin parts of the design. The million dollar question - Did you use the Optimal setting?

As a rule, designs with thin, raised components (like the antennae or thin-ish letter fonts) should have a small or medium draft and be carved on Optimal for best results.

Other variables can be the wood itself...for example, red oak is automatically more prone to chip out on thin, raised parts during machining simply due to it's open-grain nature. Certain other wood types let you get away with more thin, raised detail without quite as much concern regarding chip out - cherry is one good example of that - tight grained woods take mechanical machining better.

Thanks again for your kind comments and your suggestions. I appreciate it very much.

PS - I've been wanting to try integrating the hidden barrel hinges on some of the projects, but resisted because of the cost to the user (I think I saw some for around $13 each from Lee Valley?? - can't recall for sure). Where do you order your barrel hinges from, and are they fairly economical for folks?

Hi Michael,

Don't sweat it, I'm sure my machine hiccuped or I was using a dull bit. The one I carved with no chipping was with the rock and a new bit, so I am sure if I fed the quickchuck on my other machine a new bit it would have been fine. I did carve the lid in Lowe's select pine on optimal setting. Like I said, I am always thrilled to see your projects posted, and like many look forward to the new month to see what POM we have in store for us!!!

As for the hidden barrel hinges, they are very cool and I think add a touch of class to any hinged project. You are right though, they aren't the cheapest. I get mine from Woodcraft and the 1/2" hinges (10mm) (P/n 27C11) are $5.99 for each hinge. The 3/4" (14mm) (P/n 27C12) are $6.99 for each hinge.

On top of that you need to have a 10 mm or 14 mm forstner bit to drill the holes for them. The closest bits in standard are not close enough, and you will have to sand them out some for a tight fit. I got my bits from Ace Tools after reference from another forum member(acetool.com). The 10mm bit was $6.16 each (p/n CMT-537.100.31) and the 14mm bit was $6.49 each (p/n CMT-537.140.31).

All in all though, for certain projects using black walnut or maple or other not so cheap woods, the cost of these hinges just work right into the cost of the project...plus for my money you can't beat the look of shiny brass hardware against a dark colored wood.

Once again, thanks for all you do.

Craig

[mtylerfl]

Craig,

Thanks for the great info on the hinges. You're right, they are a little pricey, but not as bad as what I thought I recalled. They certainly will add that 'touch of class' to a project!

Thanks again!

[mister_zed]

My 5 cents to what Michael wrote:

I also have the belief that what you call glue-up is less prone to warping. Glued boards do not have long fibres in them, just short segments - and it's why warping is less of a problem: different glued bits try to warp the piece in different directions and they have less "warping force" in them due to shorter fibres.

Having said that - I want to point out that as recently as yesterday I saw warped glued boards, that particular type having more than 1" in thickness, about 24" wide and something like 50-60" long. And it was oak! So even glued boards can warp.

On the other hand, believe it or not, it's not that easy to find boards more than 220mm (=8.7") wide in my country, even though there are lots of forests. So I am forced to use whatever is available and I usually buy boards glued of smaller pieces of wood, usually the pieces glued together are about 1.6" wide. It works out quite well, I haven't seen any noticeable warping on my "products" - on the other hands I do not have a woodworker's eyes either. ;-)

In this country both shelves and chopboards can be made of glued wood. It's quite durable and has its charm also, because different parts of the board can have slightly different structure/orientation.

There is another advantage of buying glue-ups: they are always as square as they should be. If there is a difference in width along the board, it will be under 0.04", which is about as good as buying MDF (but you do not have same amount of fine dust).

/Z