glue up boards

[Milanth]

Do I need to use a biscuit on glue up boards? Or can I just glue them together. I am using Gorilla glue. I know biscuits makes a joint stronger. I didn't know being this board will be carved. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[PCW]

I just butt glue the boards for the reason if you carve into a biscuit it may show once carve. Titebond 3 is what I use for inside as well as outdoors.

[Milanth]

I have tightbond 3 as well. I use both depending on what I want to glue up. Thanks for the fast reponse! I know I used gorilla glue to glue small strips of cedar together then made knobs out of them on my lathe. With the gorilla glue the strips stayed in tact and never chipped out during the turn.

[PCW]

Gorilla glue is great and I use it anytime I need the filling properties from the expansion it creates. Good Luck

[CarverJerry]

PWC, thanks for the tip on cutting into the biscuits, never thought about that happening. I just got myself a biscuit jointer for that reason. Guess it will be ok if the carve is not deep....

[Kenm810]

On a few large Signs, that I was worrying about
I did add a few Biscuits to be on the safe side.
Once you lay-out you pattern and text in Designer
before gluing up your stock, it's easy enough to
and place your Biscuits to avoid the Carving and Cutting Bits.
They may not be needed, but I always tend to over build my projects anyway.
Also Tite-Bond III has my vote for indoors and outdoors projects.

[hogiewan]

with modern wood glues, the only reason to use biscuits is to ensure alignment

[JDPratt]

Biscuits do not any strength to the joint. They do aid tremendously in alignment. I use them quite a bit in bookcases or table tops when I am gluing several smaller boards together. The alignment aid the biscuits give can save you time in sanding and ensuring your finished glue-up is flat along the glue line. I have used them a couple times in carving glue ups, but you have to take a good amount of time in planning where they go so you don't carve into them. For glue I prefer Titebond II or III depending on the application. I just don't like the mess of Gorilla glue and it doesn't have any better bonding/holding strength than Titebond. With any of the modern glues, if you glue the joint properly, the wood will fail before the glue joint.

[hogiewan]

I use Titebond I in case I need a bit more time

[Ike]

Do I need to use a biscuit on glue up boards? Or can I just glue them together. I am using Gorilla glue. I know biscuits makes a joint stronger. I didn't know being this board will be carved. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I have been gluing up sign boards for many years using dowels. For many years means 30 years! Since I have started using Gorilla glue I stopped using dowels. I didn't like biscuits and as forth to line up it is easier without anything!

The biggest problem all these years is running into the dowels during a carve. Sometimes I drilled a bit too deep and left a void. Once you cut the dowel well it doesn't help anything.

Many do not like Gorilla glue I not sure why? You do need to wet the edges or edge. I wet both edges and apply glue on one edge only. I apply a thin layer too much is not good. The glue will expand, with water based glue like Titebond exterior I apply it heavily and then with a wet cloth wipe off the excess.

With Gorilla glue I have never had a sign separate at the joint. I have tested a board by breaking it and the board broke and not at the joint.


The key I found is having enough clamps for a blank say 14" by 36" I will use 5 bar clamps. I will lay down 3 clamps 2 at the ends right and left and one in the middle. Then two on top between the ends and middle.

Plus I make sure I have a block or a clamp cushion not to dent the edges with the clamps. Using more clamps can help in denting the wood.


I have a somewhat big sign order I need to get down that is 3 foot by 4 foot and I plan on just using Gorilla glue without dowels. Instead of hand routing I am using my CW. It will be a 3 part sign. I will make sure I have the boards lined up for gluing before I carve it I don't want any surprises!



Ike

[Digitalwoodshop]

For the Normites out there..... New Yankee Woodshop Norm....

He used Biscuits for years..... I bought my biscuit jointer tool because of him....

In a show in the last year or so he went back to a place that had a table from a few years ago on display. He pointed out the Biscuit location in the top of the table at the joints... ALL of the biskits.....

He said that when you wet the biscuit and slot the wood swells up... This swells the wood surface... After the glue is dry you prep the table top by sanding it.... what you don't know is the table top has a HUMP with each biscuit location... Now you sand it all smooth and flush..... Then Like Norm showed, a few years later the wood had dried and left DIVITS.....

So he used the best Type 3 Glue and makes sure that he does Growth Rings Up, Growth Rings Down, Growth Rings UP.... This helps keep the board FLAT.... Placing all the Growth Rings in the same direction could cause the board to turn into a big U..... He no longer uses biscuits unless you watch a OLD show.

Good Luck,

AL

Another " Search " Free Post.

[earlyrider]

For those with a router table or shaper, a gluejoint bit or splines will solve alignment problem also, but edge jointing and glue is the easiest, just run the panel through a planer to bring it flat and to its final thickness.
Ron

[hogiewan]

I have used my CW to rip and joint boards for glue up. It worked as good if not better than any other tool I have used for the job. You need the 3/8" straight bit for jointing.

[lawrence]

No biscuits needed, just clamps, cauls, and a good surface (for normal pieces of MDF/ply/wood without much movement this means a jointer) for pieces that will experience a lot of lateral movement but are subject to end-to-end strains I will spring the joint with a jointer plane.

For wide pieces make sure you use cauls as well and biscuits won't be necessary for alignment...

Just my .02... and repeating some of what others have already said for re-enforcement
Lawrence

[mtylerfl]

No biscuits needed, just clamps, cauls, and a good surface (for normal pieces of MDF/ply/wood without much movement this means a jointer) for pieces that will experience a lot of lateral movement but are subject to end-to-end strains I will spring the joint with a jointer plane.

For wide pieces make sure you use cauls as well and biscuits won't be necessary for alignment...

Just my .02... and repeating some of what others have already said for re-enforcement
Lawrence

Hi Lawrence,

Thanks for your additional helpful comments. One term I am not familiar with is "spring the joint with a jointer plane". Would you mind explaining 'spring the joint' for us amateurs?

[Kenm810]

Your Question made me remember a few Wood Planes my dad bought me years ago.
So I looked it up and found this
http://books.google.com/books?id=mKje-o4eJK4C&pg=PA273&lpg=PA273&dq=spring+the+joint+with+a+jointer+plane&source=bl&ots=YMHLOb0vr7&sig=8N1AVrJv83D0FPJWqof9KDsqPkw&hl=en&ei=hhNbS8GPFI2INvvalYYP&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CCwQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=spring%20the%20joint%20with%20a%20jointer%20plan e&f=false

[lawrence]

Hi Lawrence,

Thanks for your additional helpful comments. One term I am not familiar with is "spring the joint with a jointer plane". Would you mind explaining 'spring the joint' for us amateurs?

no problem-- Ken's pic explains things quite nicely. Basically you create a (very very) small hollow in the center of each board so that when you hold the joint together you can see a sliver of light through the center and the joint is tight at the ends. You can then clamp the boards together and if there is drastic stress movement you are less likely to get separation at the ends of the joint... and separation in the middle is less likely as it is supported at both ends.

To be honest, with modern glues (I like TB II and III) this joint is probably not that necessary, but I've done it in instances where edge separation is more likely (like working with butternut which moves a lot... and hide glue) Another time I'm liable to use this type of joint is when I know the boards I'm jointing are from wood that has case hardened or has a lot of other internal stresses going on... these boards seem to cause me joint problems at the ends and I like to give myself some insurance (I've done this with case hardened red oak)

To create the joint use a hand plane as described in ken's link, but after you finish you skew the jointer plane so you don't have such a long surface riding on the joint and this allows you to create the "dish". I like to joint both boards at the same time to create a perfect edge (you don't need the jointer plane to be at perfect 90 degrees as you are cutting both sides at the same time)

I'm not sure I'm describing this very well.... but I hope you get the idea.... I'm certainly no expert on the subject and have only done this 4 or 5 times but have benefited from others' knowledge and hope to do the same

Lawrence

[GaryW]

I used scap wood glued together to make this box

http://my.att.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=334&fileid=2392963&groupid=70644&folderid=299887&curRec=4&folderview=thumbs&ck=

[mtylerfl]

...
I'm not sure I'm describing this very well.... but I hope you get the idea.... I'm certainly no expert on the subject and have only done this 4 or 5 times but have benefited from others' knowledge and hope to do the same

LawrenceThank you very much for sharing your knowledge with us. I think you did an excellent job explaining the process!

(Thanks to Ken, for the link with the pics, too!)

[cestout]

Except in the picture the boards have the rings arranged correctly according to Norm's instructions. Over time the rings try to flatten out so that is why quarter sawn wood is more stable. One of the boards should be flipped over.
Clint