burning pine - cut path

[Metalhead781]

with less then three hrs cutting time on the 1/8" cutting bit it's burning pine severe enough to cause a fire hazard. Obviously i stopped the cut. I tried to select the max pass depth however i need to set it .26" for a three pass cut. this gives me a bad cut that needs alot of sanding. Any ideas?

[Digitalwoodshop]

The Burning Cut Path is caused by Bit Flutter from a bad QC or Bit Holders... A ROCK will stop that....

AL

[Metalhead781]

not going to happen for a while. i ran another piece. i just think that the bit is acting light high speed steel not solid carbide.

[AskBud]

Your "Burn" may also come from a pine board that has a lot of sap, was not kiln dried, or just a high moisture/density problem. If it feels "Heavy" it will cut bad, even on a table or band saw that is using a thin or small tooth blade.
AskBud

[Metalhead781]

i know all about pine. Not the issue. it's burning in all types of materials. I think it just got real dull real fast. Now i just need to figure out how i'm going to get a new bit in the qc adapter. as far as flutter. Mic on drilled holes is perfect i've used it to cut a few slots mic'ed those as well. if there was a bad flutter or any flutter the holes drilled would be off. the slots would be off. it's not there. The bit is junk and i don't have $40 plus shipping for a new one.

[Metalhead781]

P.S. Most likely the bit isn't really solid carbide just high tempered steal with deep cuts heat even without burning is causing the bit to become weak and flex.

[dbfletcher]

P.S. Most likely the bit isn't really solid carbide just high tempered steal with deep cuts heat even without burning is causing the bit to become weak and flex.

Can you please share where you got the bit then? So we can avoid if your claims are true?

Thanks,

Doug Fletcher

[Metalhead781]

Can you please share where you got the bit then? So we can avoid if your claims are true?

Thanks,

Doug Fletcher

It came with the carvewright. the bit started to discolor even before it started burning the wood. I don't believe i received the right bit with the machine. Visual reference to the bits sold online here,amazon etc. looks like a slightly different 4flute sprial bit. I'm not wondering if i got a substituted bit. Angle on flutes dont seam to match and closer look at the setscrews looks like they've been removed. I ordered the machine from woodcraft I doubt that has anything to do with it. I've got a box with three diff "carbide" router bits that from my experience aren't carbide at all. So it wouldn't be the first time. Tomorrow i'm going to look up the specs, flute length etc to double check.

I do have to apologize for being short in previous posts. I have a horrible temper.

I appreciate the help

MH

[liquidguitars]

With a picture of the bit we be able to tell.. if you have the right bit remember you need to clean the bit after using pine, use a brass wire brush and sap remover.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Are there BB Marks in your Cutting Bit holder? LHR cutting bits are solid carbide.

I fought the burning bits last year until I got a ROCK. That ended the burning bit problem in all woods.

You can dance all around everything from thinking it is a High Speed Steel bit, number of flutes or heavy pine when the answer has been given.

And as far as 3 pass cutting giving you a bad cut needing more sanding and bit flutter.... Then the board is loosing contact with the brass roller and the cuts are not 100% centered in length. Masking Tape will help that problem placed on the bottom of the board at the brass roller area.

Sorry...

AL

[Metalhead781]

Thanks guys. I found the issue.. a big one....

Broken bit SHANK. The bit itself doesn't measure right. Actual flute length is .72" it's too short per documentation. Yes i measured correctly did it three times. I called WoodCraft where i ordered the machine. They told me it shipped from "In Store" which means it came from one of their retail locations. Their customer service said that an associate might have changed out the bit with adapter for a customer then put one of their 1/8" cutting bits in the adapter. Probably from a rotary saw if in fact that was the case. All i know is i need a knew bit :mad:

"Ponders to self if the extra collet for my router will fit in place of the QC"

[Metalhead781]

Are there BB Marks in your Cutting Bit holder? LHR cutting bits are solid carbide.

I fought the burning bits last year until I got a ROCK. That ended the burning bit problem in all woods.

You can dance all around everything from thinking it is a High Speed Steel bit, number of flutes or heavy pine when the answer has been given.

And as far as 3 pass cutting giving you a bad cut needing more sanding and bit flutter.... Then the board is loosing contact with the brass roller and the cuts are not 100% centered in length. Masking Tape will help that problem placed on the bottom of the board at the brass roller area.

Sorry...

AL

I appreciate it AL but there aren't any bb marks at all on either bit at the moment. I constantly check just incase something starts going wrong. Both QC adapters are free of them and after what use i've got on the carving bit which i estimate as 10 hrs it'self. Looks a lot better then the one hr photo.

Thanks again

MH

[rjustice]

MH,
Just for future reference, you can test for carbide with a magnet. Carbide is only slightly magnetic, where HSS is very magnetic. HSS is more of a sliver color when new, and will turn "blue" when it gets hot, Carbide is dark grey and will not have much change in color at all. Also carbide will feel much heavier than HSS.

If you are interested my 1/8 cutout bits are $14 less than cw's but are 1/8 shank, so if you stick with the QC, you would need a 1/8 bit adapter that i sell, or if you go with the Rock Chuck you would need the 1/8 sleeve.

Hope this helps...

Ron

[CarverJerry]

Another thing that I've ran into being a machinist for over 30 years is these bits or end mills are production made and sometimes one get thru with out being completely finished. Meaning both the primary and secondary reliefs must be visible, if you look very close there should be 2 angles on the cutting edge on each flute. There are several sites in the net that shows this and without the correct angles on the flutes it will Burn... hope this helps you understand the construction of an end mill. This site may help... http://www.homepages.mcb.net/howe/NewsCuttingToolGrinding.htm

[Digitalwoodshop]

Looks like you just might have a Roto Zip bit or something like it placed in the system by a Store Employee.... Sorry..... I was WRONG.... Didn't think about it being a store display..... Or new just opened by the store...

First WRONG of the year.... What did I have 2 Dozen last year...:roll::roll::roll:

I can't always be right.... Sorry...

AL:-D

[fwharris]

Looks like you just might have a Roto Zip bit or something like it placed in the system by a Store Employee.... Sorry..... I was WRONG.... Didn't think about it being a store display..... Or new just opened by the store...

First WRONG of the year.... What did I have 2 Dozen last year...:roll::roll::roll:

I can't always be right.... Sorry...

AL:-D

Al,

Your small mistakes are way over shadowed by all your on the nose diagnostics!!!

[Metalhead781]

MH,
Just for future reference, a magnet will stick to a High Speed bit, but not carbide. HSS is more of a sliver color when new, and will turn "blue" when it gets hot, Carbide is dark grey and will not have much change in color at all.

If you are interested my 1/8 cutout bits are $14 less than cw's but are 1/8 shank, so if you stick with the QC, you would need a 1/8 bit adapter that i sell, or if you go with the Rock Chuck you would need the 1/8 sleeve.

Hope this helps...

Ron

Thanks Ron
I was looking at your rock chucks. At the moment my budget is a bit tight. Honestly if i could slow down the machine i'd use some 1/4 inch two flute end mill's i've got i use to inlet rifle stocks in my drill press (with the help of a machinist's vice) I never tried the magnet trick. I'll have to look for one. When i get a chance i probably will be getting an RC.

Thanks again
MH

[Metalhead781]

Looks like you just might have a Roto Zip bit or something like it placed in the system by a Store Employee.... Sorry..... I was WRONG.... Didn't think about it being a store display..... Or new just opened by the store...

First WRONG of the year.... What did I have 2 Dozen last year...

I can't always be right.... Sorry...

AL:-D

Meh, don't worry about it. You weren't here with your eyes on. I'm not good for posting pics. Usually when frustrated I tend to stay away from sensitive electronics like cameras. Only thing that i think has saved my PC is cause the tower is hard to reach from my chair.

Don't count it as a mistake...it's ill informed advice8)

MH

[Digitalwoodshop]

Al,

Your small mistakes are way over shadowed by all your on the nose diagnostics!!!

That's FUNNY..... A Snozz for Troubleshooting.......

Last year I ran into 2 Classmates from my High School Class of 75 in the middle on Wally Mart.... I was gone for the better part of 28 years before returning home a few years ago. I had not seen the guys since Graduation.

In catching up we shared quick stories of what we did for a Living...

In High School I was a NERD with the Sears Craftsman POCKET PROTECTOR and ALL.... Didn't Date Much....

I was involved with the Audio Visual Club and had a talent for fixing the stuff.... In my Freshman year I was taught the basics by the Seniors....

I came in one morning and a 16 mm projector was open and was not working... The Seniors were scratching there heads.... They left for Class and I poked around... I fixed it.... in less than 1 minute.... The Adviser just shook her head... That was the start.... Over the next 4 years between me and my buddy who is our County 911 Manager Fixed everything for the District....

The guys at Walmart were TOP Jocks and I was the NERD....

I tell him about the 20 years in the Navy and 8 years with SONY... And he looks at me and said.... "So you still do the AV Thing Fixing Stuff?".....

He Nailed it...... He was RIGHT.....

My first day at Sony they assigned me to the 32 inch Picture Tube area. The Mechanic was STRESSED.... His production line was stopped and the Engineering Department was not due in for another hour.... The big Tube De Magnetizer was broken..... It removed the magnetic field from the metal in the picture tube. Every tube had to be packed off and sent to the wharehouse.... Everyone was stressed.....

He let me watch him troubleshoot and quickly explained what it was NOT doing.... And laid out the Schematics... Another alarm went off and he ran to fix it.... I had been looking over the schematic and saw a big relay that the software would turn on to trigger the big magnetic coil. It was a DC relay and had a Diode between the two contacts on the relay coil. This prevented the relay points from HOPPING a second time due to the collapsing magnetic field of the relay coil.... I saw this diode was SHORTED..... Something I had seen many times on Navy Radars..... He came back and I showed him the problem and he ran to the parts department and I got the Soldering Iron ready....

10 minutes later the Calvary of the WHOLE Engineering Department walked in to find the equipment now running...... Needless to say I did make a very positive impression on the Engineering Dept..... The first on many of my Fixes... Even got Employee of the Month for fixing stuff....

OK... Darn this guy's EGO.... The older HE GETS.... The BETTER HE WAS.....:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

And that TAG Thing.... He has NO SHAME.....

I could write a BOOK on the interesting Repairs I have made over the years...

Snozz....

AL

[fwharris]

Great story Al!!

Your 2 "jock" school buddies, were they shopping at WallyWorld or did they work there?:rolleyes:

[Metalhead781]

hmmm well i wasn't a jock but i was a 17 yr old that was 6ft 4 340 lbs with a 38 waist. Never did the AV thing either. I did play foot ball and did lifing club the rest of the year. It actually took me ten years to find a place that would listen or let me fix anything. It was sad though. After working there for two months i was training new ppl. After that they were asking me to fix things(processes) that weren't broke. I dunno, i usually cover my bases. Before i ask 99% of possibilities have been gone over as far as information that is available. I wont ask for help on something unless nothing else i can find fits.

MH:mrgreen:

[Metalhead781]

Thanks guys. I found the issue.. a big one....

Broken bit SHANK. The bit itself doesn't measure right. Actual flute length is .72" it's too short per documentation. Yes i measured correctly did it three times. I called WoodCraft where i ordered the machine. They told me it shipped from "In Store" which means it came from one of their retail locations. Their customer service said that an associate might have changed out the bit with adapter for a customer then put one of their 1/8" cutting bits in the adapter. Probably from a rotary saw if in fact that was the case. All i know is i need a knew bit :mad:

"Ponders to self if the extra collet for my router will fit in place of the QC"

p.s. on the part of the bit with the broken shank. It's broken above the set screws inside the QC adapter.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Great story Al!!

Your 2 "jock" school buddies, were they shopping at WallyWorld or did they work there?:rolleyes:

They were shopping.... LOL.....

AL

[DocWheeler]

OK... Darn this guy's EGO.... The older HE GETS.... The BETTER HE WAS.....:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

AL

Al,

You are not alone on this! :cool: